Re: About French cowards.

[Michael Smith]

Damn good post.

France actually does help the US - the only non-US planes to drop bombs in
Afghanistan were French, and the US now uses a French base in Djibouti. The
difference between the french and the Brits is that France offers help on
its own terms, while the Brits are basically subservient to the US and will
do whatever it says.

Mike

"Skysurfer" > wrote in message
. 0.75...
> http://www.exile.ru/175/175052003.html
>
>
> The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like "I
> Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military history,
> supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If you want to
> see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:
>
> www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html
>
> Well, I'm going to tell you guys something you probably don't want
> to hear: these sites are total bull****, the notion that the French
> are cowards is total bull****, and anybody who knows anything about
> European military history knows damn well that over the past
> thousand years, the French have the most glorious military history
> in Europe, maybe the world.
>
> Before you send me more of those death threats, let me finish. I
> hate Chirac too, and his disco foreign minister with the blow-dry
> 'do and the snotty smile. But there are two things I hate more than
> I hate the French: ignorant fake war buffs, and people who are
> ungrateful. And when an American mouths off about French military
> history, he's not just being ignorant, he's being ungrateful. I was
> raised to think ungrateful people were trash.
>
> When I say ungrateful, I'm talking about the American Revolution. If
> you're a true American patriot, then this is the war that matters.
> Hell, most of you probably couldn't name three major battles from
> it, but try going back to when you read Johnny Tremaine in fourth
> grade and you might recall a little place called Yorktown, Virginia,
> where we bottled up Cornwallis's army, forced the Brits' surrender
> and pretty much won the war.
>
> Well, news flash: "we" didn't win that battle, any more than the
> Northern Alliance conquered the Taliban. The French army and navy
> won Yorktown for us. Americans didn't have the materiel or the
> training to mount a combined operation like that, with naval
> blockade and land siege. It was the French artillery forces and
> military engineers who ran the siege, and at sea it was a French
> admiral, de Grasse, who kicked the **** out of the British navy when
> they tried to break the siege.
>
> Long before that, in fact as soon as we showed the Brits at Saratoga
> that we could win once in a while, they started pouring in huge
> shipments of everything from cannon to uniforms. We'd never have got
> near Yorktown if it wasn't for massive French aid.
>
> So how come you *******s don't mention Yorktown in your cheap
> webpages? I'll tell you why: because you're too ignorant to know
> about it and too dishonest to mention it if you did.
>
> The thing that gets to me is why Americans hate the French so much
> when they only did us good and never did us any harm. Like, why not
> hate the Brits? They're the ones who killed thousands of Americans
> in the Revolution, and thirty years later they came back and
> attacked us again. That time around they managed to burn Washington
> DC to the ground while they were at it. How come you web jerks never
> mention that?
>
> Sure, the easy answer is because the Brits are with us now, and the
> French aren't. But being a war buff means knowing your history and
> respecting it.
>
> Well, so much for ungrateful. Now let's talk about ignorant. And
> that's what you are if you think the French can't fight: just plain
> ignorant. Appreciation of the French martial spirit is just about
> the most basic way you can distinguish real war nerds from fake
> little teachers'pets.
>
> Let's take the toughest case first: the German invasion, 1940, when
> the French Army supposedly disgraced itself against the Wehrmacht.
> This is the only real evidence you'll find to call the French
> cowards, and the more you know about it, the less it proves. Yeah,
> the French were scared of Hitler. Who wasn't? Chamberlain, the
> British prime minister, all but licked the Fuhrer's goosesteppers,
> basically let him have all of Central Europe, because Britain was
> terrified of war with Germany. Hell, Stalin signed a sweetheart deal
> with Hitler out of sheer terror, and Stalin wasn't a man who scared
> easy.
>
> The French were scared, all right. But they had reason to be. For
> starters, they'd barely begun to recover from their last little
> scrap with the Germans: a little squabble you might've heard of,
> called WW I.
>
> WW I was the worst war in history to be a soldier in. WW II was
> worse if you were a civilian, but the trenches of WW I were five
> years of Hell like General Sherman never dreamed of. At the end of
> it a big chunk of northern France looked like the surface of the
> moon, only bloodier, nothing but craters and rats and entrails.
>
> Verdun. Just that name was enough to make Frenchmen and Germans, the
> few who survived it, wake up yelling for years afterward. The French
> lost 1.5 million men out of a total population of 40 million
> fighting the Germans from 1914-1918. A lot of those guys died
> charging German machine-gun nests with bayonets. I'd really like to
> see one of you office smartasses joke about "surrender monkeys" with
> a French soldier, 1914 vintage. You'd **** your dockers.
>
> ****, we strut around like we're so tough and we can't even handle a
> few uppity Iraqi villages. These guys faced the Germans head on for
> five years, and we call them cowards? And at the end, it was the
> Germans, not the French, who said "calf rope."
>
> When the sequel war came, the French relied on their frontier
> fortifications and used their tanks (which were better than the
> Germans', one on one) defensively. The Germans had a newer, better
> offensive strategy. So they won. And the French surrendered. Which
> was damn sensible of them.
>
> This was the WEHRMACHT. In two years, they conquered all of Western
> Europe and lost only 30,000 troops in the process. That's less than
> the casualties of Gettysburg. You get the picture? Nobody, no army
> on earth, could've held off the Germans under the conditions that
> the French faced them. The French lost because they had a long land
> border with Germany. The English survived because they had the
> English Channel between them and the Wehrmacht. When the English
> Army faced the Wermacht at Dunkirk, well, thanks to spin the tuck-
> tail-and-flee result got turned into some heroic tale of a brilliant
> British retreat. The fact is, even the Brits behaved like cowards in
> the face of the Wermacht, abandoning the French. It's that simple.
>
> Here's a quick sampler of some of my favorite French victories, like
> an antidote to those ignorant websites. We'll start way back and
> move up to the 20th century.
>
> Tours, 732 AD: The Muslims had already taken Spain and were well on
> their way to taking the rest of Europe. The only power with a chance
> of stopping them was the French army under Charles "the Hammer"
> Martel, King of the Franks (French), who answered to the really cool
> nickname "the Hammer of God." It was the French who saved the
> continent's ass. All the smart money was on the Muslims: there were
> 60,000 of them, crazy Jihadis whose cavalry was faster and deadlier
> than any in Europe. The French army was heavily outnumbered and had
> no cavalry. Fighting in phalanxes, they held against dozens of
> cavalry charges and after at least two days of hand-to-hand combat,
> finally managed to hack their way to the Muslim center and kill
> their commander. The Muslims retreated to Spain, and Europe
> developed as an independent civilization.
>
> Orleans, May 1429: Joan of Arc: is she the most insanely cool
> military commander in history or what? This French peasant girl gets
> instructions from her favorite saints to help out the French against
> the English invaders. She goes to the King (well, the Dauphin, but
> close enough) and tells him to give her the army and she'll take it
> from there. And somehow she convinces him. She takes the army, which
> has lost every battle it's been in lately, to Orleans, which is
> under English siege. Now Joan is a nice girl, so she tries to settle
> things peaceably. She explains in a letter to the enemy commanders
> that everything can still be cool, ".provided you give up France.and
> go back to your own countries, for God's sake. And if you do not,
> wait for the Maid, who will visit you briefly to your great sorrow."
> The next day she put on armor, mounted a charger, and prepared to
> lead the attack on the besiegers' fortifications. She ordered the
> gates opened, but the Mayor refused until Joan explained that she,
> personally, would cut off his head. The gates went up, the French
> sallied out, and Joan led the first successful attack they'd made in
> years. The English strongpoints were taken, the siege was broken,
> and Joan's career in the cow-milking trade was over.
>
> Braddock's Defeat (aka Battle of Monongahela) July 1755: Next time
> you're driving through the Ohio Valley, remember you're passing near
> the site of a great French victory over an Anglo-American force
> twice its size. General Edward Braddock marched west from Virginia
> with 1,500 men-a very large army in 18th-c. America. His orders were
> to seize French land and forts in the Valley-your basic undeclared
> land-grab invasion. The French joined the local tribes to resist,
> and then set up a classic ambush. It was a slaughter. More than half
> of Braddock's force-880 men-were killed or wounded. The only Anglo
> officer to escape unhurt was this guy called George Washington, and
> even he had two horses shot out from under him. After a few minutes
> of non-stop fire from French and Indians hidden in the woods,
> Braddock's command came apart like something out of Nam, post-Tet.
> Braddock was hit and wounded, but none of his troops would risk
> getting shot to rescue him.
>
> Austerlitz, Dec. 1805: You always hear about Austerlitz as
> "Napoleon's Greatest Victory," like the little guy personally went
> out and wiped out the combined Russian and Austrian armies. The fact
> is, ever since the Revolution in 1789, French armies had been
> kicking ass against everybody. They were free citizens fighting
> against scared peasant and degenerate mercenaries, and it was no
> contest. At Austerlitz, 65,000 French troops took on 90,000 Russians
> and Austrians and destroyed them. Absolutely annihilated them. The
> French lost only 8,000, compared to 29,000 of the enemy. The tactics
> Bonaparte used were very risky, and would only have worked with
> superb troops: he encouraged the enemy to attack a weak line, then
> brought up reinforcements who'd been held out of sight. That kind of
> tactical plan takes iron discipline and perfect timing-and the
> French had it.
>
> Jena, Oct. 1806: just a quick reminder for anybody who thinks the
> Germans always beat the French. Napoleon takes on the Prussian army
> and destroys it. 27,000 Prussian casualties vs. 5,000 French.
> Prussian army routed, pursued for miles by French cavalry.
>
> You eXile guys might want to remember that the French under Napoleon
> are still the only army ever to have taken all of continental
> Europe, from Moscow to Madrid. I could keep listing French victories
> till I had a book. In fact, it's not a bad idea. A nice big
> hardback, so you could take it to the assholes running all the anti-
> French-military sites and bash their heads in with it.

[tscottme]

Skysurfer > wrote in message
. 0.75...
> http://www.exile.ru/175/175052003.html
>
>
> The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like "I
> Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military history,
> supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If you want to
> see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:
>

How many times are you going to post this. BTW, the French are fearsome
when they give command to mentally ill teenage girls or Corsicans,
otherwise they are appeasing little ballerinas.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[tscottme]

French Military History in a Nutshell

Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years
of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic
who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's
armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."

Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to
lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages
to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the
other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as
chapeaux.

The Dutch War: Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War:
Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the
period as the height of French Military Power.

War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their
first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future
Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far
more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to
the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does
most of the fighting".

French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was
also French.

The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First
Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for
a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk
Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United
States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to
sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement
in the French bloodline.

WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain
just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with
Dien Bien Flu.

Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army
by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First
Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is
identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans,
English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.

War on Terrorism: France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders
to Germans and Muslims just to be safe.


--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "Michael Smith"
>Date: 10/11/03 4:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >

>France actually does help the US - the only non-US planes to drop bombs in
>Afghanistan were French, and the US now uses a French base in Djibouti. The
>difference between the french and the Brits is that France offers help on
>its own terms, while the Brits are

I understand that the French tried that with the Germans in WW II and it
didn't quite work out all that well. At least the English never deserted to the
enemy and fought against us. Right?

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "tscottme"
>Date: 10/11/03 5:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time

>Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
>reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
>there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
>the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
>destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
>http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm
>
>

Ann Coulter is getting rich writing books that divide America one group
against the other. Is there any worse kind of traitor than that.?

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[tscottme]

Michael Smith > wrote in message
...
> Damn good post.
>
> France actually does help the US - the only non-US planes to drop
bombs in
> Afghanistan were French, and the US now uses a French base in
Djibouti. The
> difference between the french and the Brits is that France offers help
on
> its own terms, while the Brits are basically subservient to the US and
will
> do whatever it says.
>
> Mike
>

Yeah, France's help in giving Saddam a nuclear reactor was very helpful.
At least they are friendly enough to sell inferior equipment to despots.
And the butchers of Rwanda really appreciated the French aid in escaping
Rwanda after the genocide. The Vichy French were just as French as the
resistance.


--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[Mike Marron]

The following advisory for American travelers heading for
France was compiled from information provided by the U.S.
State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency, the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce, the Food and Drug Administration,
the Center for Disease Control and some very expensive spy
satellites that the French don't know about. It is intended as
a guide for American travelers only and no guarantee of
accuracy is ensured or intended.

General Overview

France is a medium-sized foreign country situated on the
continent of Europe. It is an important member of the world
community, although not nearly as important as it thinks. It
is bounded by Germany, Spain, Switzerland and some
smaller nations of no particular consequence or shopping
opportunities.

France is a very old country with many treasures such as the
Louvre and EuroDisney. Among its contributions to Western
civilization are champagne, Camembert cheese and the
guillotine.

Although France likes to think of itself as a modern nation,
air conditioning is little used and it is next to impossible to
get decent Mexican food. One continuing exasperation for
American visitors is that the people willfully persist in
speaking French, although many will speak English if
shouted at repeatedly.

The People

France has a population of 54 million people, most of whom
drink and smoke a great deal, drive like lunatics, are
dangerously oversexed and have no concept of standing
patiently in a line. The French people are generally gloomy,
temperamental, proud, arrogant, aloof and undisciplined;
those are their good points. Most French citizens are
Roman Catholic, although you'd hardly guess it from their
behavior. Many people are Communists and topless
sunbathing is common. Men sometimes have girls' names
like Marie and they kiss each other when they hand out
medals. American travelers are advised to travel in groups
and to wear baseball caps and colorful pants for easier
mutual recognition.

Safety

In general, France is a safe destination, although travelers
are advised that France is occasionally invaded by Germany.
By tradition, the French surrender more or less at once and,
apart from a temporary shortage of Scotch whisky and
increased difficulty in getting baseball scores and stock
market prices, life for the visitors generally goes on much as
before. A tunnel connecting France to Britain beneath the
English Channel has been opened in recent years to make it
easier for the French government to flee to London.

History

France was discovered by Charlemagne in the Dark Ages.
Other important historical figures are Louis XIV, the
Huguenots, Joan of Arc, Jacques Cousteau and Charles de
Gaulle, who was President for many years and is now an
airport.

Government

The French form of government is democratic but noisy.
Elections are held more or less continuously and always
result in a run-off. For administrative purposes, the country is
divided into regions, departments, districts, municipalities,
cantons, communes, villages, cafes, booths and floor tiles.
Parliament consists of two chambers, the Upper and Lower
(although, confusingly, they are both on the ground floor),
whose members are either Gaullists or communists, neither
of whom can be trusted. Parliament's principal
preoccupations are setting off atomic bombs in the South
Pacific and acting indignant when anyone complains.
According to the most current State Department intelligence,
the current President is someone named Jacques. Further
information is not available at this time.

Culture

The French pride themselves on their culture, although it is
not easy to see why. All of their songs sound the same and
they have hardly ever made a movie that you want to watch
for anything except the nude scenes. Nothing, of course, is
more boring than a French novel (except perhaps an evening
with a French family.)

Cuisine

Let's face it, no matter how much garlic you put on it, a snail
is just a slug with a shell on its back. Croissants, on the
other hand, are excellent although it is impossible for most
Americans to pronounce this word. American travelers are
therefore advised to stick to cheeseburgers at McDonald's or
the restaurants at the leading hotels such as Sheraton or
Holiday Inn.

Economy

France has a large and diversified economy, second only to
Germany's economy in Europe, which is surprising since
people hardly ever work at all. If they are not spending four
hours dawdling over lunch, they are on strike and blocking
the roads with their trucks and tractors. France's principal
exports, in order of importance to the economy, are wine,
nuclear weapons, perfume, guided missiles, champagne,
high-caliber weaponry, grenade launchers, land mines, tanks,
attack aircraft, miscellaneous armaments and cheese.

Public Holidays

France has more holidays than any other nation in the world.
Among its 361 national holidays and: 197 saint's days, 37
National Liberation days, 16 Declaration of Republic days, 54
Return of Charles de Gaulle in Triumph as if He Won the War
Single-Handed days, 18 Napoleon Called Back from Exile
days and 112 France is Great and the Rest of the World Isn't
days. Other important holidays include National Nuclear
Bomb Day (January 12th), the Feast of St. Brigitte Bardot
Day (March 1st) and National Guillotine Day (November
12th.)

Conclusion

France enjoys a rich history, a picturesque and varied
landscape and a temperate climate. In short, it would be a
very nice country if French people didn't inhabit it. The best
thing that can be said for it is that it is not Germany.
Remember that no one ordered you to go abroad. Personally
we always take our vacation in Miami Beach and you are
advised to do the same. Thank you and good luck.

-Dave Barry

[Mike Marron]

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:28:49 GMT, Mike Marron >
wrote:

>The following advisory for American travelers heading for
>France was compiled from information provided by the U.S.
>State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency, the U.S.
>Chamber of Commerce, the Food and Drug Administration,
>the Center for Disease Control and some very expensive spy
>satellites that the French don't know about. It is intended as
>a guide for American travelers only and no guarantee of
>accuracy is ensured or intended.
>
>General Overview
>
>France is a medium-sized foreign country situated on the
>continent of Europe. It is an important member of the world
>community, although not nearly as important as it thinks. It
>is bounded by Germany, Spain, Switzerland and some
>smaller nations of no particular consequence or shopping
>opportunities.
>
>France is a very old country with many treasures such as the
>Louvre and EuroDisney. Among its contributions to Western
>civilization are champagne, Camembert cheese and the
>guillotine.
>
>Although France likes to think of itself as a modern nation,
>air conditioning is little used and it is next to impossible to
>get decent Mexican food. One continuing exasperation for
>American visitors is that the people willfully persist in
>speaking French, although many will speak English if
>shouted at repeatedly.
>
>The People
>
>France has a population of 54 million people, most of whom
>drink and smoke a great deal, drive like lunatics, are
>dangerously oversexed and have no concept of standing
>patiently in a line. The French people are generally gloomy,
>temperamental, proud, arrogant, aloof and undisciplined;
>those are their good points. Most French citizens are
>Roman Catholic, although you'd hardly guess it from their
>behavior. Many people are Communists and topless
>sunbathing is common. Men sometimes have girls' names
>like Marie and they kiss each other when they hand out
>medals. American travelers are advised to travel in groups
>and to wear baseball caps and colorful pants for easier
>mutual recognition.
>
>Safety
>
>In general, France is a safe destination, although travelers
>are advised that France is occasionally invaded by Germany.
> By tradition, the French surrender more or less at once and,
>apart from a temporary shortage of Scotch whisky and
>increased difficulty in getting baseball scores and stock
>market prices, life for the visitors generally goes on much as
>before. A tunnel connecting France to Britain beneath the
>English Channel has been opened in recent years to make it
>easier for the French government to flee to London.
>
>History
>
>France was discovered by Charlemagne in the Dark Ages.
>Other important historical figures are Louis XIV, the
>Huguenots, Joan of Arc, Jacques Cousteau and Charles de
>Gaulle, who was President for many years and is now an
>airport.
>
>Government
>
>The French form of government is democratic but noisy.
>Elections are held more or less continuously and always
>result in a run-off. For administrative purposes, the country is
>divided into regions, departments, districts, municipalities,
>cantons, communes, villages, cafes, booths and floor tiles.
>Parliament consists of two chambers, the Upper and Lower
>(although, confusingly, they are both on the ground floor),
>whose members are either Gaullists or communists, neither
>of whom can be trusted. Parliament's principal
>preoccupations are setting off atomic bombs in the South
>Pacific and acting indignant when anyone complains.
>According to the most current State Department intelligence,
>the current President is someone named Jacques. Further
>information is not available at this time.
>
>Culture
>
>The French pride themselves on their culture, although it is
>not easy to see why. All of their songs sound the same and
>they have hardly ever made a movie that you want to watch
>for anything except the nude scenes. Nothing, of course, is
>more boring than a French novel (except perhaps an evening
>with a French family.)
>
>Cuisine
>
>Let's face it, no matter how much garlic you put on it, a snail
>is just a slug with a shell on its back. Croissants, on the
>other hand, are excellent although it is impossible for most
>Americans to pronounce this word. American travelers are
>therefore advised to stick to cheeseburgers at McDonald's or
>the restaurants at the leading hotels such as Sheraton or
>Holiday Inn.
>
>Economy
>
>France has a large and diversified economy, second only to
>Germany's economy in Europe, which is surprising since
>people hardly ever work at all. If they are not spending four
>hours dawdling over lunch, they are on strike and blocking
>the roads with their trucks and tractors. France's principal
>exports, in order of importance to the economy, are wine,
>nuclear weapons, perfume, guided missiles, champagne,
>high-caliber weaponry, grenade launchers, land mines, tanks,
>attack aircraft, miscellaneous armaments and cheese.
>
>Public Holidays
>
>France has more holidays than any other nation in the world.
>Among its 361 national holidays and: 197 saint's days, 37
>National Liberation days, 16 Declaration of Republic days, 54
>Return of Charles de Gaulle in Triumph as if He Won the War
>Single-Handed days, 18 Napoleon Called Back from Exile
>days and 112 France is Great and the Rest of the World Isn't
>days. Other important holidays include National Nuclear
>Bomb Day (January 12th), the Feast of St. Brigitte Bardot
>Day (March 1st) and National Guillotine Day (November
>12th.)
>
>Conclusion
>
>France enjoys a rich history, a picturesque and varied
>landscape and a temperate climate. In short, it would be a
>very nice country if French people didn't inhabit it. The best
>thing that can be said for it is that it is not Germany.
>Remember that no one ordered you to go abroad. Personally
>we always take our vacation in Miami Beach and you are
>advised to do the same. Thank you and good luck.
>
>-Dave Barry

.....or perhaps some U.S. fighter pilot who was stationed in Laon,
France, back in the sixties when we were kicked out of the country,
lock stock and barrelby good ol' Charlie DeGaulle?

[tscottme]

The key to the U.N.'s global warming study was man's use of aerosol
spray. You have to know the French were involved in a study concluding
that Arrid Extra Dry is destroying the Earth. In a world in which
everyone smelled, the French would be at no disadvantage. Aerosol spray.
How convenient.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[tscottme]

ArtKramr > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: About French cowards.
> >From: "tscottme"
> >Date: 10/11/03 5:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>
> >Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
> >reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
> >there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
> >the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
> >destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
> >http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm
> >
> >
>
> Ann Coulter is getting rich writing books that divide America one
group
> against the other. Is there any worse kind of traitor than that.?
>

Yes, Democrats. They've been dividing white from black, poor and rich,
patriotic and liberal for decades.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "tscottme"
>Date: 10/11/03 6:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>ArtKramr > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>> >From: "tscottme"
>> >Date: 10/11/03 5:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>
>> >Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
>> >reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
>> >there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
>> >the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
>> >destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
>> >http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Ann Coulter is getting rich writing books that divide America one
>group
>> against the other. Is there any worse kind of traitor than that.?
>>
>
>Yes, Democrats. They've been dividing white from black, poor and rich,
>patriotic and liberal for decades.
>
>--
>
>Scott
>--------
>"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
>reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
>there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
>the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
>destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
>http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

But never haven ever written hate books like far right hate monger Coulter


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[tscottme]

http://tinyurl.com/qlu0
http://tinyurl.com/qlu4
http://tinyurl.com/9267
http://tinyurl.com/qlu8
http://tinyurl.com/qlu9


--


Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[tscottme]

ArtKramr > wrote in message
...

>
> But never haven ever written hate books like far right hate monger
Coulter
>
>

You're right. The anti-American leftists usually fill their hate books
with "October Surprises", secret deals, and anti-Semitism.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[Skysurfer]

tscottme wrote :

>> The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like
>> "I Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military
>> history, supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If
>> you want to see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:
>
> How many times are you going to post this.

It was posted by me only once.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "tscottme"
>Date: 10/11/03 8:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>ArtKramr > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> But never haven ever written hate books like far right hate monger
>Coulter
>>
>>
>
>You're right. The anti-American leftists usually fill their hate books
>with "October Surprises", secret deals, and anti-Semitism.
>
>--
>
>Scott
>--------

Totally unfounded claims in an attempt to defend the indefensible radical
right.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[av8r]

Hi Mike

The same thing happened to the Canadians.

In March 1966, the French government announced that is was withdrawing
its own forces from N.A.T.O. operational control and bringing them home.
They requested that all N.A.T.O. units either leave the country by the
1st of April 1967 or accept French operational control. Thus the Royal
Canadian Air Force were forced to move out of France. They had major
fighter wings at Grostenquin (nicknamed Gross Tin Can) and Marville.
They also had No. 61 A.C.&.W. Squadron (callsign 'Yellowjack') based at
Metz. The H.Q. for the R.C.A.F.'s No. 1 Air Division Europe was also in
Metz, France.

In 1962, there was a conflict of interest between France the the United
States over the storage of nukes on French soil. France wanted full
control of them. As a consequence, all nuclear weapons were withdrawn
from France including those destined for use by the R.C.A.F.'s CF-104
Starfighters which had replaced the Canadair Sabre Mk. 6.

Cheers...Chris

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> Totally unfounded claims in an attempt to defend the indefensible
radical
> right.
>

There is no "radical right".

[Tarver Engineering]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Totally unfounded claims in an attempt to defend the indefensible
radical
> > right.

> There is no "radical right".

I would guess Art is refering to the crank induced paradoid schitzos that
populate the racist fringe. These white seperatists are often of a NAZI
like persuasion, due to Adolph being a crank addict himself. (420)

[tscottme]

I guess you don't remember what the Left was writing about Bush after
the 200 election. I guess you missed the 2 "I hate Bush" articles by
the Left (including Chaitt) in the last few weeks. I guess you missed
all the "Reagan is killing everyone because he won't say AIDS".

The Left is the most hateful section of the country and they have been
since at least Vietnam.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm
ArtKramr > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: About French cowards.
> >From: "tscottme"
> >Date: 10/11/03 8:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >ArtKramr > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>
> >> But never haven ever written hate books like far right hate
monger
> >Coulter
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You're right. The anti-American leftists usually fill their hate
books
> >with "October Surprises", secret deals, and anti-Semitism.
> >
> >--
> >
> >Scott
> >--------
>
> Totally unfounded claims in an attempt to defend the indefensible
radical
> right.
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

[tscottme]

Here's the exact same posting about one week ago. Perhaps you two
should get married.

The French

by Gary Brecher

The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like "I
Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military history,
supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If you want to
see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:

www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

Well, I'm going to tell you guys something you probably don't want to
hear: these sites are total bull****, the notion that the French are
cowards is total bull****, and anybody who knows anything about
European military history knows damn well that over the past thousand
years, the French have the most glorious military history in Europe,
maybe the world.

Before you send me more of those death threats, let me finish. I hate
Chirac too, and his disco foreign minister with the blow-dry 'do and
the snotty smile. But there are two things I hate more than I hate the
French: ignorant fake war buffs, and people who are ungrateful. And
when an American mouths off about French military history, he's not
just being ignorant, he's being ungrateful. I was raised to think
ungrateful people were trash.

When I say ungrateful, I'm talking about the American Revolution. If
you're a true American patriot, then this is the war that matters.
Hell, most of you probably couldn't name three major battles from it,
but try going back to when you read Johnny Tremaine in fourth grade
and you might recall a little place called Yorktown, Virginia, where
we bottled up Cornwallis's army, forced the Brits' surrender and
pretty much won the war.

Well, news flash: "we" didn't win that battle, any more than the
Northern Alliance conquered the Taliban. The French army and navy won
Yorktown for us. Americans didn't have the materiel or the training to
mount a combined operation like that, with naval blockade and land
siege. It was the French artillery forces and military engineers who
ran the siege, and at sea it was a French admiral, de Grasse, who
kicked the **** out of the British navy when they tried to break the
siege.

Long before that, in fact as soon as we showed the Brits at Saratoga
that we could win once in a while, they started pouring in huge
shipments of everything from cannon to uniforms. We'd never have got
near Yorktown if it wasn't for massive French aid.

So how come you *******s don't mention Yorktown in your cheap
webpages? I'll tell you why: because you're too ignorant to know about
it and too dishonest to mention it if you did.

The thing that gets to me is why Americans hate the French so much
when they only did us good and never did us any harm. Like, why not
hate the Brits? They're the ones who killed thousands of Americans in
the Revolution, and thirty years later they came back and attacked us
again. That time around they managed to burn Washington DC to the
ground while they were at it. How come you web jerks never mention
that?

Sure, the easy answer is because the Brits are with us now, and the
French aren't. But being a war buff means knowing your history and
respecting it.

Well, so much for ungrateful. Now let's talk about ignorant. And
that's what you are if you think the French can't fight: just plain
ignorant. Appreciation of the French martial spirit is just about the
most basic way you can distinguish real war nerds from fake little
teachers'pets.

Let's take the toughest case first: the German invasion, 1940, when
the French Army supposedly disgraced itself against the Wehrmacht.
This is the only real evidence you'll find to call the French cowards,
and the more you know about it, the less it proves. Yeah, the French
were scared of Hitler. Who wasn't? Chamberlain, the British prime
minister, all but licked the Fuhrer's goosesteppers, basically let him
have all of Central Europe, because Britain was terrified of war with
Germany. Hell, Stalin signed a sweetheart deal with Hitler out of
sheer terror, and Stalin wasn't a man who scared easy.

The French were scared, all right. But they had reason to be. For
starters, they'd barely begun to recover from their last little scrap
with the Germans: a little squabble you might've heard of, called WW
I.

WW I was the worst war in history to be a soldier in. WW II was worse
if you were a civilian, but the trenches of WW I were five years of
Hell like General Sherman never dreamed of. At the end of it a big
chunk of northern France looked like the surface of the moon, only
bloodier, nothing but craters and rats and entrails.

Verdun. Just that name was enough to make Frenchmen and Germans, the
few who survived it, wake up yelling for years afterward. The French
lost 1.5 million men out of a total population of 40 million fighting
the Germans from 1914-1918. A lot of those guys died charging German
machine-gun nests with bayonets. I'd really like to see one of you
office smartasses joke about "surrender monkeys" with a French
soldier, 1914 vintage. You'd **** your dockers.

****, we strut around like we're so tough and we can't even handle a
few uppity Iraqi villages. These guys faced the Germans head on for
five years, and we call them cowards? And at the end, it was the
Germans, not the French, who said "calf rope."

When the sequel war came, the French relied on their frontier
fortifications and used their tanks (which were better than the
Germans', one on one) defensively. The Germans had a newer, better
offensive strategy. So they won. And the French surrendered. Which was
damn sensible of them.

This was the WEHRMACHT. In two years, they conquered all of Western
Europe and lost only 30,000 troops in the process. That's less than
the casualties of Gettysburg. You get the picture? Nobody, no army on
earth, could've held off the Germans under the conditions that the
French faced them. The French lost because they had a long land border
with Germany. The English survived because they had the English
Channel between them and the Wehrmacht. When the English Army faced
the Wermacht at Dunkirk, well, thanks to spin the tuck-tail-and-flee
result got turned into some heroic tale of a brilliant British
retreat. The fact is, even the Brits behaved like cowards in the face
of the Wermacht, abandoning the French. It's that simple.

Here's a quick sampler of some of my favorite French victories, like
an antidote to those ignorant websites. We'll start way back and move
up to the 20th century.

Tours, 732 AD: The Muslims had already taken Spain and were well on
their way to taking the rest of Europe. The only power with a chance
of stopping them was the French army under Charles "the Hammer"
Martel, King of the Franks (French), who answered to the really cool
nickname "the Hammer of God." It was the French who saved the
continent's ass. All the smart money was on the Muslims: there were
60,000 of them, crazy Jihadis whose cavalry was faster and deadlier
than any in Europe. The French army was heavily outnumbered and had no
cavalry. Fighting in phalanxes, they held against dozens of cavalry
charges and after at least two days of hand-to-hand combat, finally
managed to hack their way to the Muslim center and kill their
commander. The Muslims retreated to Spain, and Europe developed as an
independent civilization.

Orleans, May 1429: Joan of Arc: is she the most insanely cool military
commander in history or what? This French peasant girl gets
instructions from her favorite saints to help out the French against
the English invaders. She goes to the King (well, the Dauphin, but
close enough) and tells him to give her the army and she'll take it
from there. And somehow she convinces him. She takes the army, which
has lost every battle it's been in lately, to Orleans, which is under
English siege. Now Joan is a nice girl, so she tries to settle things
peaceably. She explains in a letter to the enemy commanders that
everything can still be cool, ".provided you give up France.and go
back to your own countries, for God's sake. And if you do not, wait
for the Maid, who will visit you briefly to your great sorrow." The
next day she put on armor, mounted a charger, and prepared to lead the
attack on the besiegers' fortifications. She ordered the gates opened,
but the Mayor refused until Joan explained that she, personally, would
cut off his head. The gates went up, the French sallied out, and Joan
led the first successful attack they'd made in years. The English
strongpoints were taken, the siege was broken, and Joan's career in
the cow-milking trade was over.

Braddock's Defeat (aka Battle of Monongahela) July 1755: Next time
you're driving through the Ohio Valley, remember you're passing near
the site of a great French victory over an Anglo-American force twice
its size. General Edward Braddock marched west from Virginia with
1,500 men-a very large army in 18th-c. America. His orders were to
seize French land and forts in the Valley-your basic undeclared
land-grab invasion. The French joined the local tribes to resist, and
then set up a classic ambush. It was a slaughter. More than half of
Braddock's force-880 men-were killed or wounded. The only Anglo
officer to escape unhurt was this guy called George Washington, and
even he had two horses shot out from under him. After a few minutes of
non-stop fire from French and Indians hidden in the woods, Braddock's
command came apart like something out of Nam, post-Tet. Braddock was
hit and wounded, but none of his troops would risk getting shot to
rescue him.

Austerlitz, Dec. 1805: You always hear about Austerlitz as "Napoleon's
Greatest Victory," like the little guy personally went out and wiped
out the combined Russian and Austrian armies. The fact is, ever since
the Revolution in 1789, French armies had been kicking ass against
everybody. They were free citizens fighting against scared peasant and
degenerate mercenaries, and it was no contest. At Austerlitz, 65,000
French troops took on 90,000 Russians and Austrians and destroyed
them. Absolutely annihilated them. The French lost only 8,000,
compared to 29,000 of the enemy. The tactics Bonaparte used were very
risky, and would only have worked with superb troops: he encouraged
the enemy to attack a weak line, then brought up reinforcements who'd
been held out of sight. That kind of tactical plan takes iron
discipline and perfect timing-and the French had it.

Jena, Oct. 1806: just a quick reminder for anybody who thinks the
Germans always beat the French. Napoleon takes on the Prussian army
and destroys it. 27,000 Prussian casualties vs. 5,000 French. Prussian
army routed, pursued for miles by French cavalry.

You eXile guys might want to remember that the French under Napoleon
are still the only army ever to have taken all of continental Europe,
from Moscow to Madrid. I could keep listing French victories till I
had a book. In fact, it's not a bad idea. A nice big hardback, so you
could take it to the assholes running all the anti-French-military
sites and bash their heads in with it.

-----

ONLY THE IGNORANT DARE CALL FRENCH COWARDS
Copyright: Eric S. Margolis, 2003
May 1, 2003

VERDUN, France - Something keeps drawing me back to this most evil and
sinister battlefield on earth, a mere 18 km (10.8 miles) by 10 km (6
miles), where during ten hellish months of 1916 1.4 million French and
German soldiers were killed or gravely wounded.

Each year it is my custom to greet spring in France's exquisite
countryside, exploring battlefields and forts of the two world wars.
But this, my sixth journey to Verdun, holds particular personal
meaning.

Decades of travel, covering many wars, reading the history of man's
folly have made me a cosmopolitan who detests borders and earnestly
believes mankind's worst evils are nationalism and religious
fanaticism. Still, there are four countries that I hold particularly
dear and to whom I feel respectful (as opposed to hormonal)
patriotism, respect, and loyalty - Canada, France, Switzerland, the
United States (in alphabetical, not emotional order), and reserve a
special place for Pakistan.

Quixotic as it may sound, while at Verdun, I apologized as a US Army
veteran to France's fallen soldiers for the slander and disgraceful
lies hurled at their memory by American know-nothings and pro- Israel
neo-con pundits who poured venom on the French for not agreeing to
President George Bush's imperial oil war against Iraq.

`Defeat monkeys'..`surrender specialists'...`never won a war'.`always
saved by Americans'.`in war, like an accordion, useless and noisy..'
`cowards' .were hurled at France by American commentators. The
internet filled with anti-French jokes and lists of French military
defeats.

I invite all those flag waving, fire-breathing American couch patriots
who called French cowards to visit Verdun. The air here still stinks
of death; only deformed, stunted bushes grow on its poisoned soil. In
the towering gray stone Ossuary repose bone pieces of 135,000 men.

In 1916, the Germans sought a decisive battle on the strategic heights
above Verdun, where they planned to bleed France's army to death with
their massed artillery. On the first day of battle alone, French
positions were inundated by one million heavy shells. The titanic
bombardment went on for ten months, explosives against human flesh.
Trenches and dugouts were pulverized. Entire French regiments were
destroyed in hours.

The French commander, Gen. Nivelle, ordered his 2nd Army defending
Verdun: `No surrender; no retreat, not even an inch: die where you
stand.' And so they did.

On 4-5 June, the Germans poured 100,000 poison gas shells - chlorine,
phosgene, and cyanide - onto only 4 kms of French-held front - then
launched divisional assaults against the position. French soldiers had
no gasmasks. Thousands died in hideous agony, or were blinded. Yet
they somehow held.

Shells churned the battlefield into a gigantic quagmire of mud,
rotting corpses, body parts, dead horses, overhung by a toxic miasma
of chlorine and mustard gas. Troops went days without food; they drank
from shell craters filled with bodies, and often drowned in them.
German flamethrowers inflicted frightful casualties. Shells rained
down round the clock. Every tiny elevation, every fort, became a
little Thermopylae.

At the height of the German attack on Fort Vaux, over 2,000 heavy
shells an hour, some 405mm 1,000 kg monsters, were exploding each on
its roof and glacis. When we today talk about soldier's combat stress,
think of the heroic garrison of Vaux, burned, gassed, poisoned by
toxic smoke, dying of thirst, fearing they would be buried alive at
any moment, yet fighting on. The French lost 100,000 casualties trying
to retake another fort, Douaumont.

Three-quarters of the French Army, an and entire generation of
France's men, passed through the inferno of Verdun. Units stayed in
line until they had lost 60% casualties. Every town and village in
France bears a war memorial with names of its sons fallen at Verdun.
The heights above the Meuse River became France's Calvary; `They shall
not pass' the army's and nation's credo.

The attacking Germans fought, as always, like lions, losing 400,000
dead. They almost broke through, but were finally held at the last
line of French defenses, at fearsome sacrifice. French soldiers fought
like tigers, with their legendary fury and élan: over 430,000 died at
Verdun; 800,000 were gassed or crippled for life. Bones are still
unearthed here today, 87 years later; French metro's and busses only
recently ended reserved seating for `mutilated war veterans.' After
the war, there were not enough young Frenchmen to farm the fields or
produce children.

In the end, the French held Verdun. In this battle alone, France lost
almost 1.5 times total US losses in all of World War II, and 20% of
its nearly 2 million dead from 1914-1918.

To the northwest of here is Sedan. In May, 1940, the racing German XIX
Panzer Corps negotiated the dense Ardennes Forest and fought across
the Meuse, dividing, then shattering the French Army. Italy attacked
in the south.

The French did not simply surrender, as some Americans claim. Their
army fought valiantly, but was overwhelmed and torn apart by German's
high-tech military machine, just as Iraq's outdated forces were
recently obliterated by high-tech US forces.

The French government wanted to fight on from Brittany, but there were
no army divisions left intact. France lost 210,000 dead in 1940
fighting Germany and Italy; America lost 292,000 men during the entire
war. Let's keep the historical record accurate.

-------

BM

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm
Skysurfer > wrote in message
. 0.138...
> tscottme wrote :
>
> >> The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like
> >> "I Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military
> >> history, supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If
> >> you want to see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:
> >
> > How many times are you going to post this.
>
> It was posted by me only once.

[PirateJohn]

>There is no "radical right".

Maybe not if you're a Nazi. But if you are an American, and the country is
divided because of a radical reichwing element, yes there is.

Radical rightwingers who simply won't compromise with their fellow Americans
are traitors.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

Keeper of the Humour List at http://members.aol.com/PirateJohn/pirate1.html

"Mother, mother ocean... I have heard your call" - Jimmy Buffett, A Pirate
Looks At Forty.

[Skysurfer]

tscottme wrote :


>> > How many times are you going to post this.
>>
>> It was posted by me only once.
>
> Here's the exact same posting about one week ago. Perhaps you two
> should get married.

You said "How many times are *you* going to post this".
As I said it was posted only once by *me*.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"PirateJohn" > wrote in message
...
>
> Maybe not if you're a Nazi. But if you are an American, and the country
is
> divided because of a radical reichwing element, yes there is.
>
> Radical rightwingers who simply won't compromise with their fellow
Americans
> are traitors.
>

What is referred to as the "radical right" are simply those that advocate
adherence to the US Constitution. Those that advocate policies contrary to
the Constitution are the traitors.

[tscottme]

PirateJohn > wrote in message
...
> >There is no "radical right".
>
> Maybe not if you're a Nazi. But if you are an American, and the
country is
> divided because of a radical reichwing element, yes there is.
>
> Radical rightwingers who simply won't compromise with their fellow
Americans
> are traitors.
>
>

Yup, no hate on the Left. I guess Art was right.

--

Scott
--------
"Interestingly, we started to lose this war only after the embedded
reporters pulled out. Back when we got the news directly from Iraq,
there was victory and optimism. Now that the news is filtered through
the mainstream media here in America, all we hear is death and
destruction and quagmire..." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/091703.htm

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
>Date: 10/13/03 3:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: t>
>
>
>"PirateJohn" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Maybe not if you're a Nazi. But if you are an American, and the country
>is
>> divided because of a radical reichwing element, yes there is.
>>
>> Radical rightwingers who simply won't compromise with their fellow
>Americans
>> are traitors.
>>
>
>What is referred to as the "radical right" are simply those that advocate
>adherence to the US Constitution. Those that advocate policies contrary to
>the Constitution are the traitors.
>
>

The Radical Right are those who feel the constitution gives too much power to
the people and the Patriot act is a case in point of the radical right gone
berserk and taking away our freedoms..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> The Radical Right are those who feel the constitution gives too much power
to
> the people and the Patriot act is a case in point of the radical right
gone
> berserk and taking away our freedoms..
>

There is no "radical right".

[Thomas Schoene]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net

> There is no "radical right".

"Reactionary Right" then? If that's what you're geting at, it's an absurdly
pedantic point to make, really. If, OTOH, you're claiming there is no
conservative movement in favor of significant ("radical") changes in
contemporary American politics and society, you're delusional.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Reactionary Right" then? If that's what you're geting at, it's an
absurdly
> pedantic point to make, really. If, OTOH, you're claiming there is no
> conservative movement in favor of significant ("radical") changes in
> contemporary American politics and society, you're delusional.
>

The significant changes you refer to are a return to Constitutional
government. I suppose you're right, that would be a radical change in
contemporary American society.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
>Date: 10/13/03 7:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: et>
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> The Radical Right are those who feel the constitution gives too much power
>to
>> the people and the Patriot act is a case in point of the radical right
>gone
>> berserk and taking away our freedoms..
>>
>
>There is no "radical right".
>
>


The Radical Right always accuses everyone of being traitors while they
themselves strip away freedoms and covet power and wealth in the hands of a
few. Rumsfeld is a case in point. Enron getting off with a slap on the wrist
is another.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
>Date: 10/13/03 7:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: et>
>
>
>"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>> "Reactionary Right" then? If that's what you're geting at, it's an
>absurdly
>> pedantic point to make, really. If, OTOH, you're claiming there is no
>> conservative movement in favor of significant ("radical") changes in
>> contemporary American politics and society, you're delusional.
>>
>
>The significant changes you refer to are a return to Constitutional
>government. I suppose you're right, that would be a radical change in
>contemporary American society.
>
>


We never left constitutional government until the radical right started it's
destructive work.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> The Radical Right always accuses everyone of being traitors while they
> themselves strip away freedoms and covet power and wealth in the hands of
a
> few.
>

Nope. You've got it backward. It's the left that has stripped away freedom
in the US.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> We never left constitutional government until the radical right started
it's
> destructive work.
>

Wrong again. Just look at who's been in power while the Constitution was
trampled.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
>Date: 10/13/03 8:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: et>
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> We never left constitutional government until the radical right started
>it's
>> destructive work.
>>
>
>Wrong again. Just look at who's been in power while the Constitution was
>trampled.
>
>

See RAMSI V. RUMSFELD

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>
> See RAMSI V. RUMSFELD
>

See most of the 20th century.

[Tarver Engineering]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > See RAMSI V. RUMSFELD
> >
>
> See most of the 20th century.

With Arnold in as Governor, the Stanford think tank is back in power.
(libertarians) Perhaps we can even get to another balanced budget. If we
can get a 60 Republican Senate in 2004 we may even see strict
constructionists on the bench.

God bless the Republic.

[Alan Minyard]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 06:57:25 +0200, Skysurfer > wrote:

>tscottme wrote :
>
>
>>> > How many times are you going to post this.
>>>
>>> It was posted by me only once.
>>
>> Here's the exact same posting about one week ago. Perhaps you two
>> should get married.
>
>You said "How many times are *you* going to post this".
>As I said it was posted only once by *me*.

Well, it is still a collection of lies, half-truths and propaganda.

Al Minyard

[Rank Xerox]

"tscottme" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> Michael Smith > wrote in message
> ...
> > Damn good post.
> >
> > France actually does help the US - the only non-US planes to drop
> bombs in
> > Afghanistan were French, and the US now uses a French base in
> Djibouti. The
> > difference between the french and the Brits is that France offers help
> on
> > its own terms, while the Brits are basically subservient to the US and
> will
> > do whatever it says.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> Yeah, France's help in giving Saddam a nuclear reactor was very helpful.
> At least they are friendly enough to sell inferior equipment to despots.
> And the butchers of Rwanda really appreciated the French aid in escaping
> Rwanda after the genocide. The Vichy French were just as French as the
> resistance.

So funny !!!

Yeap France helped Saddam for iraqi nuclear program.. and the US for the
chemical !!!!
(What did mr Rumsfeld doing in Bagdad in 1988 shaking hand with Saddam & T.
Aziz ???!!)

Which country sent troops to stop genocide in Rwanda ??... US ??
not.France !! alone with some belgians SF.
Which country sent troops in Croatia / Bosnia for the UN in 1993 ?? ..
not the US !!! France !!!
Which country has no problem in Somalia with warlords.. during operation
Restore Hope France !!
Because French troops decided ASAP to disarm milicians in french sector
!!
US command didn't want to do the same fo the respect of local culture and
blah blah blah !!! ( we know the end of the story !!)
Which country is present with the UN in south Lebanon since 1978 and
was victim of many terrorists attacks from hezbollah ???
Not the US ... France ..
Which Country' special forces and intelligence officers were with
afghan commander Shah Massoud before 09/11 .. France !! .

Which country asked US help in 1939. ???.. and the help came
in???....... 1941 !!! after Pearl desaster ..!!!
And the US tried during all the war to remove De Gaulle and to negociate
with Vichy representant Darlan !!!

Some time you ought to listen your "friends advices". instead of thinking
your point of view is the only point of view of the "free world" !!!
More arrogant than the french !!!
The french army have a best background of military operations in middle
East and africa thant the US !!
And most of the time in counter-terrorism Special operations !!
(Teheran 1979 !! Mogadishio 1993 !! Vs Kolwezi 1979 french paratroopers
took the control of the city of Kolwezi (ZAIRE) saving thousands of civilian
hostages !! Marseille 1992 : special forces assault on a hijacked plane :
no casualties among the hostages 10 wounded in the GIGN team, all
terrorists killed).

France said to the US that' there is some diplomatic ways for the Iraq
crisis
(where are the WMD ??, where is Saddam ??? are you sure the US are in
Iraq ?? ;-))) .. and the "after war", will be not so easy than the
hawkish tried to sold it to the US public opinion....

So now US governement want France sending troops in Iraq ??. so funny !!!
or so tragic !!
because US are in a big **** !!!
Stay and you'll have more and more terrorists attacks against your forces
leave Iraq and you ( we)' ll have an islamic regime in Bagdad...

Thanks Mr Junior for Chaos in ME

[Jack]

in article , ArtKramr at
wrote on 2003/10/11 19:11:

> Ann Coulter is getting rich writing books that divide America one group
> against the other.

If Ann Coulter gets rich, wonderful! That's the American way -- and not just
for the wunderkind of silicon valley.

Ann Coulter's success stems from the fact that she is giving a voice to the
discontented mass who have found themselves already divided from the left
coast and it's sycophants elsewhere who are seeking to remake America in
their own deluded image.

It's about time!




Jack

[Rank Xerox]

De: "tscottme" >
Objet: Re: About French cowards.
Date: dimanche 12 octobre 2003 05:02

http://tinyurl.com/qlu0
http://tinyurl.com/qlu4
http://tinyurl.com/9267
http://tinyurl.com/qlu8
http://tinyurl.com/qlu9

Yeah, France's help in giving Saddam a nuclear reactor was very helpful.
> At least they are friendly enough to sell inferior equipment to despots.
> And the butchers of Rwanda really appreciated the French aid in escaping
> Rwanda after the genocide. The Vichy French were just as French as the
> resistance.

So funny !!!

Yeap France helped Saddam for iraqi nuclear program.. and the US for the
chemical !!!!
(What did mr Rumsfeld doing in Bagdad in 1988 shaking hand with Saddam & T.
Aziz ???!! want to see the movie ??.. not on foxnews i'm sure)

Which country sent troops to stop genocide in Rwanda ??... US ??
no, France !! alone with some belgians SF.
Which country sent troops in Croatia / Bosnia for the UN in 1993 ?? ..
not the US !!! France !!!
Which country has no problem in Somalia with warlords.. during operation
Restore Hope France !!
Because French troops decided ASAP to disarm milicians in the french
sector!!
US command didn't want to do the same fo the respect of local culture and
blah blah blah !!! ( we know the end of the story !!)

Which country is present with the UN in south Lebanon since 1978 and
was victim of many terrorists attacks from hezbollah ???
Not the US !! ... France ..!!
Which Country' special forces and intelligence officers were with
afghan commander Shah Massoud before 09/11 .. France !! .

Which country asked US help in 1939. ???.. and the help came
in???....... 1941 !!! after Pearl desaster ..!!! before that the US
didn't care about the situation in Europe ..
it' was pretty cool for mr Bush Grand father business with the Nazi !!!
http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm
And the US tried during all the war to remove De Gaulle and to negociate
with Vichy representant Darlan !!!

Some time you ought to listen your "friends advices". instead of thinking
your point of view is the only point of view of the "free world" !!!
More arrogant than the french !!!

The french army have a best background of military operations in middle
East and Africa thant the US !!
And most of the time in counter-terrorism Special operations !!
(Teheran 1979 !! Mogadishio 1993 !! Vs Kolwezi 1979 french paratroopers
took the control of the city of Kolwezi (ZAIRE) saving thousands of civilian
hostages !! Marseille 1992 : special forces assault on a hijacked plane :
no casualties among the hostages 10 wounded in the GIGN team, all
terrorists killed).

France said to the US that' there is diplomatics ways for the Iraq
crisis and other way to remove Saddam, and the "after war", will be not
so easy than the
hawkish tried to sold it to the US public opinion.....
But the US prefered the big stick policy !!
(Where are the WMD ??, Where is Saddam ??? are you sure the US are in
Iraq ?? they found nothing !!;-)))

So now US governement want France / turkish / pak sending troops in Iraq
??. so funny !!!
because US are in a big **** !!!
Stay : and you'll have more and more terrorists attacks against US forces
leave Iraq : and you ( we)' ll have an islamic regime in Bagdad...
Yeah send turkish troops .. all iraqi hate them ...!!! ( chiites and
kurdish too !!)

Well done the US " muscle without brain" !!!

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Rank Xerox" > wrote:

> Yeap France helped Saddam for iraqi nuclear program..

Certainly.

> and the US for the chemical !!!!

Nope. Another silly myth.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Matt Wiser]

"Rank Xerox" > wrote:
>De: "tscottme" >
>Objet: Re: About French cowards.
>Date: dimanche 12 octobre 2003 05:02
>
>http://tinyurl.com/qlu0
>http://tinyurl.com/qlu4
>http://tinyurl.com/9267
>http://tinyurl.com/qlu8
>http://tinyurl.com/qlu9
>
>Yeah, France's help in giving Saddam a nuclear
>reactor was very helpful.
>> At least they are friendly enough to sell
>inferior equipment to despots.
>> And the butchers of Rwanda really appreciated
>the French aid in escaping
>> Rwanda after the genocide. The Vichy French
>were just as French as the
>> resistance.
>
>So funny !!!
>
>Yeap France helped Saddam for iraqi nuclear
>program.. and the US for the
>chemical !!!!
>(What did mr Rumsfeld doing in Bagdad in 1988
>shaking hand with Saddam & T.
>Aziz ???!! want to see the movie ??.. not
>on foxnews i'm sure)
>
>Which country sent troops to stop genocide
>in Rwanda ??... US ??
>no, France !! alone with some belgians SF.
>Which country sent troops in Croatia / Bosnia
> for the UN in 1993 ?? ..
>not the US !!! France !!!
>Which country has no problem in Somalia with
>warlords.. during operation
>Restore Hope France !!
>Because French troops decided ASAP to disarm
> milicians in the french
>sector!!
>US command didn't want to do the same fo the
>respect of local culture and
>blah blah blah !!! ( we know the end of the
> story !!)
>
>Which country is present with the UN in south
>Lebanon since 1978 and
>was victim of many terrorists attacks from
>hezbollah ???
>Not the US !! ... France ..!!
>Which Country' special forces and intelligence
>officers were with
>afghan commander Shah Massoud before 09/11 ..
>France !! .
>
>Which country asked US help in 1939. ???..
> and the help came
>in???....... 1941 !!! after Pearl desaster
> ..!!! before that the US
>didn't care about the situation in Europe ..
>it' was pretty cool for mr Bush Grand father
>business with the Nazi !!!
>http://www.rense.com/general42/bshnazi.htm
>And the US tried during all the war to remove
> De Gaulle and to negociate
>with Vichy representant Darlan !!!
>
>Some time you ought to listen your "friends
>advices". instead of thinking
>your point of view is the only point of view
> of the "free world" !!!
>More arrogant than the french !!!
>
>The french army have a best background of
>military operations in middle
>East and Africa thant the US !!
>And most of the time in counter-terrorism Special
>operations !!
>(Teheran 1979 !! Mogadishio 1993 !! Vs Kolwezi
>1979 french paratroopers
>took the control of the city of Kolwezi (ZAIRE)
>saving thousands of civilian
>hostages !! Marseille 1992 : special forces
>assault on a hijacked plane :
>no casualties among the hostages 10 wounded
>in the GIGN team, all
>terrorists killed).
>
>France said to the US that' there is diplomatics
>ways for the Iraq
>crisis and other way to remove Saddam, and
> the "after war", will be not
>so easy than the
>hawkish tried to sold it to the US public
>opinion.....
>But the US prefered the big stick policy !!
>(Where are the WMD ??, Where is Saddam ???
>are you sure the US are in
>Iraq ?? they found nothing !!;-)))
>
>So now US governement want France / turkish
>/ pak sending troops in Iraq
>??. so funny !!!
>because US are in a big **** !!!
>Stay : and you'll have more and more terrorists
>attacks against US forces
>leave Iraq : and you ( we)' ll have an islamic
>regime in Bagdad...
>Yeah send turkish troops .. all iraqi hate
>them ...!!! ( chiites and
>kurdish too !!)
>
>Well done the US " muscle without brain" !!!
>
>
>
Where is Saddam? Hiding in the Tikrit area, I'd bet. And sooner or later,
he'll meet the same fate as his sons. $25,000,000 on his head, and somebody
is going to drop a dime and let 4th ID know where he is. Whether or not he
meets the exact same fate as his sons or gets carried away in handcuffs is
up to him...
Now, I want to know from our French friends, how would you have dealt with
Saddam? Remember, it wasn't just the US and Brits who said he had WMD-the
Russians, Germans, Israelis, the UN's own inspectors, as well as French Intel
(DGSE) had the same assessment. How long would you have let the inspectors
go on until getting the idea that not even inspections were going to work?
I for one am glad that the US did what we did in Iraq: the dictator is now
the most-wanted man in-country; the Iraqis can now express themselves freely
(c.150 newspapers in Baghdad, satellite TV, etc), practice their religion(s),
and don't have to worry about the secret police dragging them and their families
off to torture and execution chambers. CNN had a Gallup Poll of Baghdad residents:
71% want American troops to stay until the job is done, and only 30% sympathized
with the insurgents. Bottom line: the world is a safer place without the
Butcher of Baghdad, and I'd like our French friends to explain why they were
so anxious to protect him.

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

[guy wastiaux]

How did Iraq get VX then ? Since France didn't provide it

Chad Irby wrote:
>Yeap France helped Saddam for iraqi nuclear program..


Certainly.




--
Guy Wastiaux
aka FauCon PoiLu
visit me @ http://guy.4002.org/
mail me @ faucon.Wastiaux @ laposte.net

[Matthew G. Saroff]

Jack > wrote:

>in article , ArtKramr at
wrote on 2003/10/11 19:11:
>
>> Ann Coulter is getting rich writing books that divide America one group
>> against the other.
>
>If Ann Coulter gets rich, wonderful! That's the American way -- and not just
>for the wunderkind of silicon valley.
>
>Ann Coulter's success stems from the fact that she is giving a voice to the
>discontented mass who have found themselves already divided from the left
>coast and it's sycophants elsewhere who are seeking to remake America in
>their own deluded image.
>
>It's about time!
This is way off topic for RAM, but whatever.
FWIW, I've met very few Republicans who don't wonder what
is wrong with Coulter in private moments. I'm including in this
group people who think that Bush is too conservative.
Look at the Drudge site, BTW, you can get her book for
free.
Why? Because Richard Mellon Scaife has bought hundreds
of thousands of the books, and is giving them away for free.
It's not her writing (pedestrian at best), or her
originality (1st book plagiarized from one of her former
colleagues, check the now pay per view Boston Globe archives or
google), it's because she seems Republican Hip (Anorexic and
Blond), and Scaife decided to do the equivalent of a rent a crowd
in order to buy credibility on the NY Times bestseller list.
She's the Republican "It Girl", though I'm inclined to
quote Austin Powers as regards her sex appeal.
--
Matthew Saroff

Does anyone else out there strongly feel that the folks at the TV
Networks who have censored out Daffy's beak getting blown off (Shoot
Me NOW!) deserve to be stripped naked, tied face down over a chair,
covered with moose musk, and set in the migratory path of a large
moose herd?
Comments to (remove the numbers to reply)
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>From: Matthew G. Saroff
>Date: 10/20/03 8:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <nn79pvk14qgtm3fm55kvrqs

> I'm including in this
>group people who think that Bush is too conservative.

Most of my Republican friends think Bush is too liberal. Coulter has one
product for sale, hatred.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Matthew G. Saroff]

(ArtKramr) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: About French cowards.
>>From: Matthew G. Saroff
>>Date: 10/20/03 8:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <nn79pvk14qgtm3fm55kvrqs
>
>> I'm including in this
>>group people who think that Bush is too conservative.
>
>Most of my Republican friends think Bush is too liberal. Coulter has one
>product for sale, hatred.

Nope, it's short skirts.
--
--Matthew Saroff
Shrub stole the election, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt
http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff/liar

[George Z. Bush]

Matthew G. Saroff wrote:

>> ....Coulter has one product for sale, hatred.
>
> Nope, it's short skirts.

All things considered, even that won't help! Arf! Arf! (^-^)))