Health Regulations and the Sports License

[mdginzo]

If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
will he know? I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would ever
know if it isn't something obvious?

Second question: can I take flight classes as if shooting for a
regular pilot's license and then when I am done with the training just
apply fo the Sport's License? Does the one qualify me for the other?
What is going on is that there is a perfectly good flight school in my
area, but they do not train specifically for the Sport's Pilot
License. It would seem to me that I could go to school for a regular
pilot's license and then just qualify for the Sport's License with
that training plus a driver license and skip the medical exam. Right?
Or am I missing something?

[Morgans[_2_]]

"mdginzo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
> cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
> will he know? I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
> am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would ever
> know if it isn't something obvious?

That is up to you and your own ethics to decide.

> Second question: can I take flight classes as if shooting for a
> regular pilot's license and then when I am done with the training just
> apply fo the Sport's License? Does the one qualify me for the other?

In order to solo, for your full private pilot ticket, you will already have
to get your medical passed. If you get that, then there is nothing to stop
you from getting the full ticket.

> What is going on is that there is a perfectly good flight school in my
> area, but they do not train specifically for the Sport's Pilot
> License. It would seem to me that I could go to school for a regular
> pilot's license and then just qualify for the Sport's License with
> that training plus a driver license and skip the medical exam. Right?

Nope, as stated above by me.

You would have to be instructed on the sport pilot path to avoid the
medical.

Another possible path is a school that teaches in motor gliders, and get a
glider ticket. They may be harder to find than LS schools, but you might
get lucky. You could go that way, with no medical. You would also be
limited to gliders, but they have no restrictions with weight, speed or
flying at night, to name a few of the unrestricted features vs. LSP.

You could take instruction on a non sport plane, but the plane you solo
with, and take your test in, will have to be a light sport plane to avoid
the FAA medical.

Go out and get a overweight 2 seat ultralight, used, that has been converted
to a light sport plane by the paperwork conversion, and get their
instructors to get up to speed with Light Sport Pilot instructing. They can
be had for a few thousand dollars, usually.

Afterwards, you can keep the plane, or sell it to someone else, like the
school, or someone else that needs to do like what you need. You might even
come out a few bucks ahead, if you play it right.

If anyone sees any error in what I have suggested, by all means, please
point it out. This is the way it is, as I understand it.
--
Jim in NC

[john hawkins]

Well for one thing, your medical is your student pilot license.


"mdginzo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
[snip]
> What is going on is that there is a perfectly good flight school in my
> area, but they do not train specifically for the Sport's Pilot
> License. It would seem to me that I could go to school for a regular
> pilot's license and then just qualify for the Sport's License with
> that training plus a driver license and skip the medical exam. Right?
> Or am I missing something?
>

[LJ Blodgett]

The CFI's are missing the boat.Go to your local faa(with a signoff)for a
student licence.Train in any plane,and know what sport pilot reg's are
and teach it to your CFI.He can sign for solo & etc.,under the spot
rules. If Im wrong,ForgetIt. LJ from riches to rags.

mdginzo wrote:
> If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
> cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
> will he know? I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
> am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would everThe
>
> Second question: can I take flight classes as if shooting for a
> regular pilot's license and then when I am done with the training just
> apply fo the Sport's License? Does the one qualify me for the other?
> What is going on is that there is a perfectly good flight school in my
> area, but they do not train specifically for the Sport's Pilot
> License. It would seem to me that I could go to school for a regular
> pilot's license and then just qualify for the Sport's License with
> that training plus a driver license and skip the medical exam. Right?
> Or am I missing something?
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 11:05 am, LJ Blodgett > wrote:
> The CFI's are missing the boat.Go to your local faa(with a signoff)for a
> student licence.Train in any plane,and know what sport pilot reg's are
> and teach it to your CFI.He can sign for solo & etc.,under the spot
> rules. If Im wrong,ForgetIt. LJ from riches to rags.

I'm not following you. In order to solo as a student pilot you have to
have a 3rd class medical unless you are a sport pilot applicant.
Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
pilot certificate are
1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
2) They are under 40 and their medical is still valid but their studen
tpilot certificate is expired.

-Robert, CFII

[LJ Blodgett]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Robert,Hi YOU are right,The FSDO wants to see a drivers license,plus
a form(taken off the internet)filled in and signed by a CFI.No air
med.P.S. Unless s/he has been refused already. LJ
>
>>The CFI's are missing the boat.Go to your local faa(with a signoff)for a
>>student licence.Train in any plane,and know what sport pilot reg's are
>>and teach it to your CFI.He can sign for solo & etc.,under the spot
>>rules. If Im wrong,ForgetIt. LJ from riches to rags.
>
>
> I'm not following you. In order to solo as a student pilot you have to
> have a 3rd class medical unless you are a sport pilot applicant.
> Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
> pilot certificate are
> 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
> instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
> 2) They are under 40 and their medical is still valid but their studen
> tpilot certificate is expired.
>
> -Robert, CFII
>

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

mdginzo wrote:
>If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
>cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
>will he know?

He might discover it in the course of your medical examination.

>I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
>am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would ever
>know if it isn't something obvious?

It is a federal offense to falsify the application. If it isn't something
obvious, the doc may never know. The thing you'd need to worry about is
what happens if the FAA finds out. While they don't have access to your
private medical records, if any other government entity happens to have a
record of the condition, it's possible that they could share that information
with the FAA. A prime example of this was the FAA cross-checking the pilot
medical data with Social Security's disability database. That happened a
year or two ago.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Vaughn Simon]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
> pilot certificate are
> 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
> instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or

Correct me if somethng has recently changed, but in that situation you don't
need a student's license because you already hold a valid FAA license. You just
need a proper instructor's signoff to solo. I went through this process just a
few years ago when I converted from gliders to airplanes. Likewise, I signed
off several rated airplane pilots to solo gliders when I was instructing in
gliders.

Vaughn (CFIG)

[Vaughn Simon]

"LJ Blodgett" > wrote in message
. ..
YOU are right,The FSDO wants to see a drivers license,plus
> a form(taken off the internet)filled in and signed by a CFI.

You may not actually need a FSDO. I got my first student license from a
designee. Since I was a glider student, no medical was necessary.

Vaughn

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 2:22 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
> > Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
> > pilot certificate are
> > 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
> > instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
>
> Correct me if somethng has recently changed, but in that situation you don't
> need a student's license because you already hold a valid FAA license. You just
> need a proper instructor's signoff to solo. I went through this process just a
> few years ago when I converted from gliders to airplanes. Likewise, I signed
> off several rated airplane pilots to solo gliders when I was instructing in
> gliders.

Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
for gliders.

-Robert, CFII

[Jim Stewart]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Sep 19, 2:22 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
> wrote:
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>>
>>> Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
>>> pilot certificate are
>>> 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
>>> instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
>> Correct me if somethng has recently changed, but in that situation you don't
>> need a student's license because you already hold a valid FAA license. You just
>> need a proper instructor's signoff to solo. I went through this process just a
>> few years ago when I converted from gliders to airplanes. Likewise, I signed
>> off several rated airplane pilots to solo gliders when I was instructing in
>> gliders.
>
> Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
> certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
> required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
> for gliders.

Not the case for light sport. You need
a student certificate and a logbook
endorsement. My instructor (who is also
a light sport designated examiner) never
signed my FAA-issued student certificate.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 3:09 pm, Jim Stewart > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Not the case for light sport. You need
> a student certificate and a logbook
> endorsement. My instructor (who is also
> a light sport designated examiner) never
> signed my FAA-issued student certificate.- Hide quoted text -

true

[LJ Blodgett]

I think your fsdo sign your studentlicense.Things could have changed. LJ

Jim Stewart wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> On Sep 19, 2:22 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
>>> oglegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
>>>> pilot certificate are
>>>> 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
>>>> instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
>>>
>>> Correct me if somethng has recently changed, but in that
>>> situation you don't
>>> need a student's license because you already hold a valid FAA
>>> license. You just
>>> need a proper instructor's signoff to solo. I went through this
>>> process just a
>>> few years ago when I converted from gliders to airplanes. Likewise,
>>> I signed
>>> off several rated airplane pilots to solo gliders when I was
>>> instructing in
>>> gliders.
>>
>>
>> Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
>> certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
>> required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
>> for gliders.
>
>
> Not the case for light sport. You need
> a student certificate and a logbook
> endorsement. My instructor (who is also
> a light sport designated examiner) never
> signed my FAA-issued student certificate.
>
>
>
>
>

[Vaughn Simon]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
> certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
> required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
> for gliders.

Cite?

Vaughn

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 5:03 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
> > certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
> > required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
> > for gliders.
>
> Cite?
>
> Vaughn

Sec. 61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.^M
(n) Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1)
No^M
instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight
unless that^M
instructor has--^M
....
(iv) Ensured that the student pilot's certificate has been endorsed by
an^M
instructor authorized to provide flight training for the specific make
and^M
model aircraft to be flown; and^M
(v) Endorsed the student pilot's logbook for the specific make and
model^M
aircraft to be flown, and that endorsement remains current for solo
flight^M
privileges, provided an authorized instructor updates the student's
logbook^M
every 90 days thereafter.^M

Notice it requires both the student pilot certificate to be signed and
the endorsement in the log.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 2:27 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "LJ Blodgett" > wrote in message
>
> . ..
> YOU are right,The FSDO wants to see a drivers license,plus
>
> > a form(taken off the internet)filled in and signed by a CFI.
>
> You may not actually need a FSDO. I got my first student license from a
> designee. Since I was a glider student, no medical was necessary.
>
> Vaughn

Yes. In fact I recently had a student who's student pilot certificate
had expired (24 months) but the medical was still good (36 months). I
just asked the DE to sign the 8710 for the certificate "Student PIlot"
and he issued him a student pilot certificate w/o me going to the
FSDO.

-Robert

[Vaughn Simon]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 19, 5:03 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
> wrote:
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
>> oglegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
>> > certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
>> > required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
>> > for gliders.
>>
>> Cite?
>>
>> Vaughn
>
> Sec. 61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.^M
> (n) Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1)
> No^M
> instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight
> unless that^M
> instructor has--^M
> ...
> (iv) Ensured that the student pilot's certificate has been endorsed by
> an^M
> instructor authorized to provide flight training for the specific make
> and^M
> model aircraft to be flown; and^M
> (v) Endorsed the student pilot's logbook for the specific make and
> model^M
> aircraft to be flown, and that endorsement remains current for solo
> flight^M
> privileges, provided an authorized instructor updates the student's
> logbook^M
> every 90 days thereafter.^M
>
> Notice it requires both the student pilot certificate to be signed and
> the endorsement in the log.

OK, but in this case you are dealing with a "student", but not a holder of a
student pilot's license because your "student" is already an FAA rated pilot.
Your "student" has no need to obtain a student pilot's certificate because
he/she is already a licensed pilot who is simply seeking an additional rating.
Since your "student" is does not hold a Student Pilot certificate, 61.87 does
not apply.

In this situation the applicable FAR is 61.31(d)(3) and the applicable CFI
signoff from AC 61-65E is # 63.

"To Act As PIC In An Aircraft in Solo Operations when the pilot does not hold an
Appropriate Category/Class Rating: Section 61.31 (d)(3)".

"I certify that __________________________ has received training as required by
section 61.31 (d)(3) to serve as PIC in a (category and class of aircraft). I
have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC in that (make and model
of aircraft). "
(Date, Name, Certificate #, Exp date)

This is one of the most powerful signoffs that a CFI can make and it should
never be done lightly. I add time limits and geographical limits to the basic
signoff, because otherwise that person can go off and fly solo forever (in that
make and model) without ever getting another moment's instruction beyond some
sort of flight review.

Respectfully
Vaughn


>

[BT]

We send Student Glider pilots to FSDO to get their Student Certificate. No
Medical required.
I would think that the LSA student would follow the same course of action.

BT

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 19, 11:05 am, LJ Blodgett > wrote:
>> The CFI's are missing the boat.Go to your local faa(with a signoff)for a
>> student licence.Train in any plane,and know what sport pilot reg's are
>> and teach it to your CFI.He can sign for solo & etc.,under the spot
>> rules. If Im wrong,ForgetIt. LJ from riches to rags.
>
> I'm not following you. In order to solo as a student pilot you have to
> have a 3rd class medical unless you are a sport pilot applicant.
> Usually the only time you send students to the FSDO to get a student
> pilot certificate are
> 1) If they are already rated in another type of aircraft (Helo for
> instance) and carry a "regular" FAA medical or
> 2) They are under 40 and their medical is still valid but their studen
> tpilot certificate is expired.
>
> -Robert, CFII
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"LJ Blodgett" > wrote in message

> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Robert,Hi YOU are right,The FSDO wants to see a drivers license,plus a
> form(taken off the internet)filled in and signed by a CFI.No air med.P.S.
> Unless s/he has been refused already. LJ

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here, but am very interested.

Can you lay it out a little more clearly for us, from the beginning?

The FSDO wants to see a form signed by a CFI, saying that you are interested
in going for the sport pilot rating? If that is the case, then are you
flying a plane that meets all of the requirements of a light sport plane?

If not, and it does not meet the requirements of a LSP, can you solo in it,
and take you final check ride in it, if it is not a sport plane?

I am interested, because there are not many options around here for taking
LSP lessons, from the area FBO's. If there is a way around this problem, I
would really be interested in hearing about it.

Thanks.
--
Jim in NC

[BT]

Agreed Vaughn,,,, and that Flight Review can be in a different aircraft that
he holds a certificate for..
not the "additional category" that he as solo privileges in.

For my "Glider Add-On Students" that hold other ratings, I add the 90 day
restriction and also because of our "club operation", an instructor has to
be on the ground and know he is flying solo.

BT

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Sep 19, 5:03 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
>> wrote:

>>> oglegroups.com...
>> Notice it requires both the student pilot certificate to be signed and
>> the endorsement in the log.
> >>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in

> OK, but in this case you are dealing with a "student", but not a holder
> of a student pilot's license because your "student" is already an FAA
> rated pilot. Your "student" has no need to obtain a student pilot's
> certificate because he/she is already a licensed pilot who is simply
> seeking an additional rating. Since your "student" is does not hold a
> Student Pilot certificate, 61.87 does not apply.
>
> In this situation the applicable FAR is 61.31(d)(3) and the applicable
> CFI signoff from AC 61-65E is # 63.
>
> "To Act As PIC In An Aircraft in Solo Operations when the pilot does not
> hold an Appropriate Category/Class Rating: Section 61.31 (d)(3)".
>
> "I certify that __________________________ has received training as
> required by section 61.31 (d)(3) to serve as PIC in a (category and class
> of aircraft). I have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC
> in that (make and model of aircraft). "
> (Date, Name, Certificate #, Exp date)
>
> This is one of the most powerful signoffs that a CFI can make and it
> should never be done lightly. I add time limits and geographical limits
> to the basic signoff, because otherwise that person can go off and fly
> solo forever (in that make and model) without ever getting another
> moment's instruction beyond some sort of flight review.
>
> Respectfully
> Vaughn
>
>
>>
>
>

[Mxsmanic]

mdginzo writes:

> If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
> cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
> will he know? I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
> am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would ever
> know if it isn't something obvious?

He probably wouldn't. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it
impossible.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 19, 6:45 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 19, 5:03 pm, "Vaughn Simon" >
> > wrote:
> >> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
> >> oglegroups.com...
>
> >> > Nope, if you want to solo an airplane I need to sign a student pilot
> >> > certificate in addition to the solo endorsement. Student pilots are
> >> > required to carry both in airplanes. I'm not sure what the rules are
> >> > for gliders.
>
> >> Cite?
>
> >> Vaughn
>
> > Sec. 61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.^M
> > (n) Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1)
> > No^M
> > instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight
> > unless that^M
> > instructor has--^M
> > ...
> > (iv) Ensured that the student pilot's certificate has been endorsed by
> > an^M
> > instructor authorized to provide flight training for the specific make
> > and^M
> > model aircraft to be flown; and^M
> > (v) Endorsed the student pilot's logbook for the specific make and
> > model^M
> > aircraft to be flown, and that endorsement remains current for solo
> > flight^M
> > privileges, provided an authorized instructor updates the student's
> > logbook^M
> > every 90 days thereafter.^M
>
> > Notice it requires both the student pilot certificate to be signed and
> > the endorsement in the log.
>
> OK, but in this case you are dealing with a "student", but not a holder of a
> student pilot's license because your "student" is already an FAA rated pilot.
> Your "student" has no need to obtain a student pilot's certificate because
> he/she is already a licensed pilot who is simply seeking an additional rating.
> Since your "student" is does not hold a Student Pilot certificate, 61.87 does
> not apply.
>
> In this situation the applicable FAR is 61.31(d)(3) and the applicable CFI
> signoff from AC 61-65E is # 63.
>
> "To Act As PIC In An Aircraft in Solo Operations when the pilot does not hold an
> Appropriate Category/Class Rating: Section 61.31 (d)(3)".
>
> "I certify that __________________________ has received training as required by
> section 61.31 (d)(3) to serve as PIC in a (category and class of aircraft). I
> have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC in that (make and model
> of aircraft). "
> (Date, Name, Certificate #, Exp date)

You are correct with respect to a private pilot adding an additional
category to his certificate. I believe the endorsement is #62 though;
#63 is Retesting after the failure of a practical test.

-Robert

[LJ Blodgett]

If you are with a cfi-You can fly any air plane .When you solo,you have
to fly a sport qualified airplane With student permit,logbook sign off.
Must cfi don't want to under stand what a sport pilot certificate or the
plane.Also they think that 20 hr.arn't enough.But thats up to the
CFI.The CFI can instruct in any thing he has qualified for, as ASEL etc.
Must say they don't have a plane.
Morgans wrote:
> "LJ Blodgett" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>Robert,Hi YOU are right,The FSDO wants to see a drivers license,plus a
>>form(taken off the internet)filled in and signed by a CFI.No air med.P.S.
>>Unless s/he has been refused already. LJ
>
>
> I'm not quite sure what you are saying here, but am very interested.
>
> Can you lay it out a little more clearly for us, from the beginning?
>
> The FSDO wants to see a form signed by a CFI, saying that you are interested
> in going for the sport pilot rating? If that is the case, then are you
> flying a plane that meets all of the requirements of a light sport plane?
>
> If not, and it does not meet the requirements of a LSP, can you solo in it,
> and take you final check ride in it, if it is not a sport plane?
>
> I am interested, because there are not many options around here for taking
> LSP lessons, from the area FBO's. If there is a way around this problem, I
> would really be interested in hearing about it.
>
> Thanks.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> mdginzo writes:
>
>> If you have a health condition that would normally bar you from being
>> cleared by an FAA doctor, but you do not mention it to the doctor, how
>> will he know? I know it is a Federal offense not to disclose - or I
>> am guessing it is, anyway. I am just wondering how the doc would ever
>> know if it isn't something obvious?
>
> He probably wouldn't. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it
> impossible.
>

Doesn't matter. you will never fly legally or illegally



Bertie

[Dana M. Hague]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:47:01 -0600, LJ Blodgett >
wrote:

>If you are with a cfi-You can fly any air plane .When you solo,you have
>to fly a sport qualified airplane...

And there's the rub; try to find a flight school with an airplane
meeting the LSA requirements. The usual Cessna or Piper offerings
won't qualify. Unless you can find somebody doing primary in an old
Cub, T-Craft, Aeronca, or such, you're out of luck... until the new
crop of LSA's (including the new C-162) become common.

-Dana
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