German High Speed SAM Missile

[JT]

Does anyone have any details on the German high velocity (Mach 5-6)
missile called the HFK (or HFK2)? Sounds like an interesting project
which I believe will be operational around 2010.

-----JT-----

[Thomas Schoene]

"JT" > wrote in message
om
> Does anyone have any details on the German high velocity (Mach 5-6)
> missile called the HFK (or HFK2)? Sounds like an interesting project
> which I believe will be operational around 2010.

http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/

I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production program; it's
just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad given the massive cuts
pending in German R&D efforts)

Long-term, the technology might show up as an alternative missile for MEADS,
or perhaps Roland. But not by 2010.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[phil hunt]

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:57:59 GMT, Thomas Schoene > wrote:
>"JT" > wrote in message
om
>> Does anyone have any details on the German high velocity (Mach 5-6)
>> missile called the HFK (or HFK2)? Sounds like an interesting project
>> which I believe will be operational around 2010.
>
>http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/
>
>I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production program; it's
>just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad given the massive cuts
>pending in German R&D efforts)
>
>Long-term, the technology might show up as an alternative missile for MEADS,
>or perhaps Roland.

Or as a final-stage boost for missiles such as Meteor or MICA, if
the picture at the link is anything to go by.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(My real email address would be > if you added 275
to it and reversed the last two letters).

[[email protected]]

Hello everyone,

>> Does anyone have any details on the German high velocity (Mach 5-6)
>> missile called the HFK (or HFK2)? Sounds like an interesting project
>> which I believe will be operational around 2010.

Please find more information in the following article: (German)
http://soldat-und-technik.de/artikel-05-03/luftwaffe.htm

Random bits of information from said page:
- describes HFK program, test results from early 2002
- conical shape, grid fins
- integrated structure/engine, carbon-fiber
- on-board sensor only 4km range; needs mid-course guidance
- loud 'boom' upon impact
- variants with speed/range/weight of 4.4Mach/15km/60kg and
5.5Mach/18-20km/90kg
- measured: >6.5Mach close to ground
- measured: acceleration 210g, speed 6.62Mach after ca. 2s flight
- measured: 2750°C surface temperature (?)
- due to 'aerodynamic instability' lateral acceleration in excess of
100g occurred, then missile stabilized itself and continued flight as
planned
- useful configurations need to be determined
- research will be continued, joint German-Swedish program, 2004-2006

Cheers!

[Urban Fredriksson]

In article >,
Thomas Schoene > wrote:

>http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/
>
>I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production program; it's
>just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad given the massive cuts
>pending in German R&D efforts)

Looks very much like something to do with Bofors's Abraham
which is more than just a demonstrator program, even if
it's not gotten full funding.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
To get rid of an enemy, make him a friend.

[robert arndt]

(Urban Fredriksson) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Thomas Schoene > wrote:
>
> >http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/
> >
> >I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production program; it's
> >just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad given the massive cuts
> >pending in German R&D efforts)
>

Check out this link:

http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/03paris/hard13.htm

Apparently it will be developed into a system.

Rob

[Thomas Schoene]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om
> (Urban Fredriksson) wrote in message
> >...
> > In article >,
> > Thomas Schoene > wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/
> > >
> > > I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production
> > > program; it's just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad
> > > given the massive cuts pending in German R&D efforts)
> >
>
> Check out this link:
>
> http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/03paris/hard13.htm
>
> Apparently it will be developed into a system.

That's not what the article says. It says Germany and Sweden hope to apply
the technology developed in a joint R&D program to future weapons.

Those weapons will likely not be HFK 2 but will sue technology demonstrated
in the HFK project. This relationship sounds like the one between X-planes
(pre-Joint Strike Fighter) and operational aircraft.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[robert arndt]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message et>...
> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om
> > (Urban Fredriksson) wrote in message
> > >...
> > > In article >,
> > > Thomas Schoene > wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://www.bayernchemie-protac.com/en/technologies/hypervelocity/
> > > >
> > > > I don't beleive this is associated with any actual production
> > > > program; it's just a tech demonstrator. (Which could be bad
> > > > given the massive cuts pending in German R&D efforts)
> > >
> >
> > Check out this link:
> >
> > http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/03paris/hard13.htm
> >
> > Apparently it will be developed into a system.
>
> That's not what the article says. It says Germany and Sweden hope to apply
> the technology developed in a joint R&D program to future weapons.
>
> Those weapons will likely not be HFK 2 but will sue technology demonstrated
> in the HFK project. This relationship sounds like the one between X-planes
> (pre-Joint Strike Fighter) and operational aircraft.
>
> --�
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

I didn't say that it would be developed into HFK 2 or suggest that.
The joint program has the intent to use the technology demonstrated
towards a future weapon system(s). I was responding to the suggestion
that this was a purely German program and that based on cutbacks in
German R&D might amount to nothing.
The article points to a joint program with the intent to develop the
technology into a working missile system sometime in the future.

Rob

[Thomas Schoene]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om

> I didn't say that it would be developed into HFK 2 or suggest that.
> The joint program has the intent to use the technology demonstrated
> towards a future weapon system(s). I was responding to the suggestion
> that this was a purely German program and that based on cutbacks in
> German R&D might amount to nothing.
> The article points to a joint program with the intent to develop the
> technology into a working missile system sometime in the future.

OK, that's pretty much what I said at the outset -- it's a technology
demosntrator that will produce concepts that may show up in future programs.
That's not the same as the original post, which said HKF 2 could be
operational by 2010.
--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[JT]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message news:<X11lb.5227
> OK, that's pretty much what I said at the outset -- it's a technology
> demosntrator that will produce concepts that may show up in future programs.
> That's not the same as the original post, which said HKF 2 could be
> operational by 2010.
> --�
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)


Check out this quote from:
http://www.afcea.org/signal/europe2000/germany/Germany.htm

Dr. Michael Langer, head of the BGT liaison office in Koblenz, reports
that the company also is developing the HFK hypervelocity missile to
replace the Roland surface-to-air missile system. Weapons in this
category are scheduled for introduction in the inventory around 2010.
The HFK system is now undergoing demonstration and validation tests by
the German army. The missile is designed to fit into existing Roland
missile launchers that are widely deployed. He notes that the Mach 6
missile was originally conceived to combat main battle tanks at medium
distances to penetrate armor by means of kinetic-energy impact.

The HFK now is used primarily for defense against fast and low-flying
aircraft and missiles at short distances. These targets require
extremely short reaction times and thus very short flight times for an
interceptor missile. Langer emphasizes that the "booster sends the HFK
missile up to full speed within 1 second of launch. The missile's
range is out to 50 kilometers (30 miles)," he says. Emphasis is on
autonomous guidance and control of hypersonic missiles by means of
inertial systems and seeker-assisted terminal guidance.



If these numbers are correct it means the missile will be around 2.2m
- 2.6m in length, weigh around 70-90 kg with the speed of Mach 6 and a
range of 50km!


-----JT-----

[Thomas Schoene]

"JT" > wrote in message
om
> "Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
> news:<X11lb.5227
> > OK, that's pretty much what I said at the outset -- it's a
> > technology demosntrator that will produce concepts that may show up
> > in future programs. That's not the same as the original post, which
> > said HKF 2 could be operational by 2010.
> > --�
> > Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to
> > e-mail "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> > special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
>
>
> Check out this quote from:
> http://www.afcea.org/signal/europe2000/germany/Germany.htm
>
> Dr. Michael Langer, head of the BGT liaison office in Koblenz, reports
> that the company also is developing the HFK hypervelocity missile to
> replace the Roland surface-to-air missile system.

OK, this is something I had not sseen anywhere before. I'm quite surprised,
as this seems like an area where there is very little urgent need for
improvement and other reports realyl seemed to nidicate that it's a
longr-rnage project. But if BGT says that's what they're doing, I can't deny
it.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[JT]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message news:<CSmlb.580$
> > Check out this quote from:
> > http://www.afcea.org/signal/europe2000/germany/Germany.htm

>
> OK, this is something I had not sseen anywhere before. I'm quite surprised,
> as this seems like an area where there is very little urgent need for
> improvement and other reports realyl seemed to nidicate that it's a
> longr-rnage project. But if BGT says that's what they're doing, I can't deny
> it.
>

The only thing which I would hesitate a bit on is that by the link, it
looks like this report was written in 2000. Seeing how quickly things
change, the program may have taken a different turn from what was
described by BGT. But if it does remain as described...it will be one
kick ass missile!

-----JT-----