C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length

[George]

Hi all.
Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?

Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?


Thanks.

[Thomas Schoene]

"George" > wrote in message
om
> Hi all.
> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?

I think normal JATO take off distance would be in the range of 800-1000 ft.
depending on load.

> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?

The CREDIBLE SPORT aircraft modifed for a second Iranian hostage rescue
attempt were supposed to take off with about a 100-ft ground roll. They
used a massive amount of rocket assist, far more that the usual RATO units.

A couple of descriptions of Credible Sport:
http://home.earthlink.net/~quade/crediblesport.html
http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/articles/Credible_Sport.htm

and pictures:
http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/new-pics/dec.htm

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Guy Alcala]

George wrote:

> Hi all.
> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?
>
> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?
>
> Thanks.

The SAC for the Navy C-130G (equivalent to the C-130E IIRR)
is online. Normal vs. Jato (8 x 1,000 lb. thrust ATO
rockets) t/o runs (in feet) at weights of 155,000 (normal
max., 2.5g) and 175,000 lb (overload, 2.25g):

Calm, ISA @ SL, Military rated power and 50% flaps. 155,000
lb: 4,125/3,565 feet. 175,000 lb: 5,390/4,750 feet.

The C-130H values should be somewhat less, as it had more
powerful engines but the same max. weights. I don't know
how the C-130J stacks up for t/o.

Guy

[Steve R.]

The 130J isn't set up for Jato. Those Dowty props and RR engines really toss
it in the air without it though!
Steve


"Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
. ..
George wrote:

> Hi all.
> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?
>
> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?
>
> Thanks.

The SAC for the Navy C-130G (equivalent to the C-130E IIRR)
is online. Normal vs. Jato (8 x 1,000 lb. thrust ATO
rockets) t/o runs (in feet) at weights of 155,000 (normal
max., 2.5g) and 175,000 lb (overload, 2.25g):

Calm, ISA @ SL, Military rated power and 50% flaps. 155,000
lb: 4,125/3,565 feet. 175,000 lb: 5,390/4,750 feet.

The C-130H values should be somewhat less, as it had more
powerful engines but the same max. weights. I don't know
how the C-130J stacks up for t/o.

Guy

[Les Matheson]

Credible Sport actually got airborne in much less than 100ft. More like 2
1/2 - 5 tire revolutions.

Les

> The CREDIBLE SPORT aircraft modifed for a second Iranian hostage rescue
> attempt were supposed to take off with about a 100-ft ground roll. They
> used a massive amount of rocket assist, far more that the usual RATO
units.
>
> A couple of descriptions of Credible Sport:
> http://home.earthlink.net/~quade/crediblesport.html
> http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/articles/Credible_Sport.htm
>
> and pictures:
> http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/new-pics/dec.htm
>
> --�
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
>
>
>
>

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(George) writes:
> Hi all.
> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?
>
> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?

Not with a loaded Herc, and the standard JATO setup.

From the Standard Aircraft Characteristics Chart for the U.S. Navy
C-130G (The same thing as a USAF C-130E, but the Navy wouldn't use the
same subtype letter, would they? :) )

The normal JATO fit are 8 1000-KS-14 JATO bottles, which give you
1000# thrust for 14 seconds.

Takeoff ground run, no wind, Standard Day Sea Level at 155,000# weight
(Max payload)
4125' without JATO, 3565' with HATO
Distance to clear a 50' obstacle:
5810' without JATO, 4812' with JATO.

Note that the extra thrust doesn't help the ground run very much, but
does help the initial climbout quite a bit.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[[email protected]]

(Peter Stickney) wrote:

>In article >,
> (George) writes:
>> Hi all.
>> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?
>>
>> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?
>
>Not with a loaded Herc, and the standard JATO setup.
>
>From the Standard Aircraft Characteristics Chart for the U.S. Navy
>C-130G (The same thing as a USAF C-130E, but the Navy wouldn't use the
>same subtype letter, would they? :) )
>
>The normal JATO fit are 8 1000-KS-14 JATO bottles, which give you
>1000# thrust for 14 seconds.
>
>Takeoff ground run, no wind, Standard Day Sea Level at 155,000# weight
>(Max payload)
>4125' without JATO, 3565' with HATO
>Distance to clear a 50' obstacle:
>5810' without JATO, 4812' with JATO.
>
>Note that the extra thrust doesn't help the ground run very much, but
>does help the initial climbout quite a bit.

Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
--

-Gord.

[Michael Williamson]

wrote:

> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)

Well, it does help with ground run if you can guarantee a 30 kt
wind down the runway every time...

Mike

[[email protected]]

Michael Williamson >
wrote:

wrote:
>
>> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
>> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
>
> Well, it does help with ground run if you can guarantee a 30 kt
>wind down the runway every time...
>
>Mike
>
>
That's true isn't it?...one tends to forget that ~30 knots is a
LOT of airspeed gain, especially at the top of the take-off roll
range, takes a comparatevly long time to gather that extra speed.

An a/c that you normally rotate at 105 you now rotate at 75
(well, not really but you get my drift)
--

-Gord.

[Guy Alcala]

" wrote:

> Michael Williamson >
> wrote:
>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
> >> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
> >
> > Well, it does help with ground run if you can guarantee a 30 kt
> >wind down the runway every time...
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> That's true isn't it?...one tends to forget that ~30 knots is a
> LOT of airspeed gain, especially at the top of the take-off roll
> range, takes a comparatevly long time to gather that extra speed.
>
> An a/c that you normally rotate at 105 you now rotate at 75
> (well, not really but you get my drift)

There's also the advantage that you don't have to pull G off the end of
the deck, in order to leave the 'ground' and climb over obstacles.
Indeed, you can even sink a bit. And of course, the a/c was almost
certainly nowhere near MTOW -- max. landing weight (8fps) is only
130,000 lb., vice the 155,000 or 175,000 lb. MTOW, and I imagine the
a/c was well under max. landing weight when it landed. The Herc's
power-on stall speeds (100% flaps) at landing weights are under 100
knots. For instance, at a landing weight of 110,459 lb. it has power
off/on stall speeds (100% flaps) of 80/65 kts. At 122,586 lb. they're
91/75 kts. 50% flaps would be used for takeoff, but even with no wind,
at a t/o weight of 100,000 lb. the a/c has a ground run of only 1,500
ft. at sea level. Add 30 kts or more of wind over deck and the Herc's
ability to land or takeoff from a large deck carrier isn't a surprise.

Guy

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Gord Beaman" ) writes:
> (Peter Stickney) wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> (George) writes:
>>> Hi all.
>>> Does anyone know C-130 rocket assisted takeoff length?
>>>
>>> Is it possible that it can be 30 meters (100 ft)?
>>
>>Not with a loaded Herc, and the standard JATO setup.
>>
>>From the Standard Aircraft Characteristics Chart for the U.S. Navy
>>C-130G (The same thing as a USAF C-130E, but the Navy wouldn't use the
>>same subtype letter, would they? :) )
>>
>>The normal JATO fit are 8 1000-KS-14 JATO bottles, which give you
>>1000# thrust for 14 seconds.
>>
>>Takeoff ground run, no wind, Standard Day Sea Level at 155,000# weight
>>(Max payload)
>>4125' without JATO, 3565' with HATO
>>Distance to clear a 50' obstacle:
>>5810' without JATO, 4812' with JATO.
>>
>>Note that the extra thrust doesn't help the ground run very much, but
>>does help the initial climbout quite a bit.
>
> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)

Gave it a 40 kt headwind! :) It should be pointed out that the data I
gave was for a 155,000# C-130G (or E, if you're USAF). The Forrestal
flights wre made by a KC-130F, which was the Marine Corps
Tanker/Transport flavor of the C-130B. The B models had the same
egnine as the later E models, but their max weight was 135,000# rather
than 155,000#.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Tex Houston]

"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message
...
> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
> --
>
> -Gord.

Still around as a USMC KC-130.

Tex

[Alan Minyard]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:19:11 GMT, Guy Alcala
> wrote:

" wrote:
>
>> Michael Williamson >
>> wrote:
>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
>> >> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
>> >
>> > Well, it does help with ground run if you can guarantee a 30 kt
>> >wind down the runway every time...
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> That's true isn't it?...one tends to forget that ~30 knots is a
>> LOT of airspeed gain, especially at the top of the take-off roll
>> range, takes a comparatevly long time to gather that extra speed.
>>
>> An a/c that you normally rotate at 105 you now rotate at 75
>> (well, not really but you get my drift)
>
>There's also the advantage that you don't have to pull G off the end of
>the deck, in order to leave the 'ground' and climb over obstacles.
>Indeed, you can even sink a bit. And of course, the a/c was almost
>certainly nowhere near MTOW -- max. landing weight (8fps) is only
>130,000 lb., vice the 155,000 or 175,000 lb. MTOW, and I imagine the
>a/c was well under max. landing weight when it landed. The Herc's
>power-on stall speeds (100% flaps) at landing weights are under 100
>knots. For instance, at a landing weight of 110,459 lb. it has power
>off/on stall speeds (100% flaps) of 80/65 kts. At 122,586 lb. they're
>91/75 kts. 50% flaps would be used for takeoff, but even with no wind,
>at a t/o weight of 100,000 lb. the a/c has a ground run of only 1,500
>ft. at sea level. Add 30 kts or more of wind over deck and the Herc's
>ability to land or takeoff from a large deck carrier isn't a surprise.
>
>Guy

And, if you have a 15 knot wind, you can easily get 45 kts over the
deck. I never asked Adm Flately what the wind conditions were, and I
always regretted it :-(

Al Minyard

[[email protected]]

"Tex Houston" > wrote:

>
>"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message
...
>> Peter, what did they do to the Herc that they flew off of the
>> Forrestal(?) ? (without JATO at that!)
>> --
>>
>> -Gord.
>
>Still around as a USMC KC-130.
>
>Tex
>
Oh yes indeed, Quite successful, I have the film clips here,
impressive. Didn't look like it dropped at the end of the deck
either, seemed to be climbing smartly.
--

-Gord.

[[email protected]]

Alan Minyard > wrote:


>And, if you have a 15 knot wind, you can easily get 45 kts over the
>deck. I never asked Adm Flately what the wind conditions were, and I
>always regretted it :-(
>
>Al Minyard

Yes, must have been fun talking to him about it...pretty
impressive feat.
--

-Gord.

[Daryl Hunt]

"Steve R." > wrote in message
...
> The 130J isn't set up for Jato. Those Dowty props and RR engines really
toss
> it in the air without it though!
> Steve

I can't speak of the distance that a Jato C-130D took since it was on snow
(skibird) but you tried to bounce the nose into the air at about 60kts.
When the ski cleared, it emmediately popped to about 90kts and you popped
the 8 jato bottles and were airborne and going up. That is got to be the
hairiest ride ever.