Next test question: What was the last piston-engined aircraft to be used in combat?

[Kirk Stant]

What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?

Just being there doesn't count.

Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
count either!

I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.

Kirk

[Stephen FPilot Bierce]

(Kirk Stant) wrote:

>What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
>
>Just being there doesn't count.
>
>Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
>count either!
>
>I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.

Several African air forces still use SOCATA Guerriers (Rallyes) in the
counter-insurgency/ground attack role today. I'm fairly sure some saw combat
use this year in Liberia and other west African nations.

It also wouldn't surprise me if Antonov An-2s are still used in Chechnya as
gunships.

Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922
{Sig Quotes Removed on Request}

[tim gueguen]

"Stephen "FPilot" Bierce" > wrote in message
...
> (Kirk Stant) wrote:
>
> >What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> >the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> >(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
> >
> >Just being there doesn't count.
> >
> >Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> >count either!
> >
> >I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
>
> Several African air forces still use SOCATA Guerriers (Rallyes) in the
> counter-insurgency/ground attack role today. I'm fairly sure some saw
combat
> use this year in Liberia and other west African nations.
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if Antonov An-2s are still used in Chechnya
as
> gunships.
>
Hell, if you're willing to be flexible someone firing a rifle out of a
Cessna 172 probably counts, and that could happen at any time.

tim gueguen 101867

[The Raven]

"tim gueguen" > wrote in message
news:aDpkb.124037$6C4.96274@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Stephen "FPilot" Bierce" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (Kirk Stant) wrote:
> >
> > >What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> > >the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> > >(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
> > >
> > >Just being there doesn't count.
> > >
> > >Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> > >count either!
> > >
> > >I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
> >
> > Several African air forces still use SOCATA Guerriers (Rallyes) in the
> > counter-insurgency/ground attack role today. I'm fairly sure some saw
> combat
> > use this year in Liberia and other west African nations.
> >
> > It also wouldn't surprise me if Antonov An-2s are still used in Chechnya
> as
> > gunships.
> >
> Hell, if you're willing to be flexible someone firing a rifle out of a
> Cessna 172 probably counts, and that could happen at any time.

The RAAF fly Caribous still so, I guess there is a possibility of something
falling or being thrown out of it at someone/something on the ground.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

[Mike Marron]

> (Kirk Stant) wrote:

>What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?

>Just being there doesn't count.

>Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
>count either!

>I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.

The piston-engined Siai Marchetti SF260 (of civilian "Air Combat
USA" mock dogfight fame) also flew combat in the Philippines
against the Moro National Liberation Front faction (MNLF) in late
2001. The SF260 was (and purportedly still is) used in combat by
many under-developed countries all over the world, esp. Africa.
A Libyan SF260 was downed by the Sudanese in 1987. British
Special Air Services (SAS) mercenarys trained in ultralight (or
"microlight") trikes at Boscombe Down (RAF test pilot school).
I had a fascinating discussion with an American mercenary last
April at Sun 'n Fun (annual EAA airshow held in Lakeland, FL)
whom had recently returned from Afghanistan with regards to
"other" ultralight type A/C currently employed in "cloak & dagger"
missions. You asked the question about piston-engined in the
past-tense, but at least in a limited role, piston-engine "combat"
A/C are here to stay.

[robert arndt]

(Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
> What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
>
> Just being there doesn't count.
>
> Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> count either!
>
> I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
>
> Kirk

Kirk,

This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
American, and Asian.
For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...

Rob

[Garrison Hilliard]

(Kirk Stant) wrote:
>What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?

That's hard to say... most nations have armed, prop-driven border patrol aircraft that are regularly used. How about those AC-130's used by Colombia to fight the drug cartels? Or those
things the Peruvians use to fight the Sgining Path?

[Keith Willshaw]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
m...
> (Kirk Stant) wrote in message
>...
> > What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> > the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> > (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
> >
> > Just being there doesn't count.
> >
> > Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> > count either!
> >
> > I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
> >
> > Kirk
>
> Kirk,
>
> This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
> world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
> combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
> American, and Asian.
> For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
> flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
> in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
> rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
> Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...

Tucano's arent piston engined , they use turboprops.

Keith

[Keith Willshaw]

"Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
...
>
> (Kirk Stant) wrote:
> >What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> >the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> >(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
>
> That's hard to say... most nations have armed, prop-driven border patrol
aircraft that are regularly used. How about those AC-130's used by Colombia
to fight the drug cartels? Or those
> things the Peruvians use to fight the Sgining Path?

The OP specified piston engined not propellor driven.
AC-130's are turboprops.

Keith

[Ron]

>Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
>
>Rob

Yes, helicopters are considered aircraft.
Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

[Alan Minyard]

On 19 Oct 2003 10:20:38 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

(Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
>> What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>> the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>> (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
>>
>> Just being there doesn't count.
>>
>> Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
>> count either!
>>
>> I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
>>
>> Kirk
>
>Kirk,
>
>This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
>world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
>combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
>American, and Asian.
>For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
>flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
>in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
>rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
>Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
>
>Rob

Turboprops do not have pistons.

Helicopters are definitely aircraft, according to every dictionary
that I have.

Al Minyard

[Garrison Hilliard]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Keith Willshaw wrote:

>
> "Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > That's hard to say... most nations have armed, prop-driven border patrol
> aircraft that are regularly used. How about those AC-130's used by Colombia
> to fight the drug cartels? Or those
> > things the Peruvians use to fight the Sgining Path?
>
> The OP specified piston engined not propellor driven.
> AC-130's are turboprops.

How about those armed Cessna Skymasters they use?

[robert arndt]

Alan Minyard > wrote in message >...
> On 19 Oct 2003 10:20:38 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
>
> (Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
> >> What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> >> the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> >> (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
> >>
> >> Just being there doesn't count.
> >>
> >> Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> >> count either!
> >>
> >> I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
> >>
> >> Kirk
> >
> >Kirk,
> >
> >This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
> >world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
> >combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
> >American, and Asian.
> >For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
> >flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
> >in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
> >rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
> >Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
> >
> >Rob
>
> Turboprops do not have pistons.
>
> Helicopters are definitely aircraft, according to every dictionary
> that I have.
>
> Al Minyard

My bad, Al. However, for the reason stated in the first paragraph of
my post I still think it is an idiotic question. There are plenty of
true piston-engined a/c in the inventories of the world's AFs that are
still used in the strike mission primarily.
Second, the helicopter is an aircraft by basic definition; however,
most of the military encyclopedias I have been accustomed to further
classify these aircraft as rotorcraft. I think it's pretty common
sense to make a distinction between a helicopter and other "aircraft".
BTW, rotorcraft include: helicopters, gyrocopters, coleopters, etc...
My apologies to the original poster.

[Kenneth Williams]

Alan Minyard > wrote in message >...
> On 19 Oct 2003 10:20:38 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
>
> (Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
> >> What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
> >> the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
> >> (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
> >>
> >> Just being there doesn't count.
> >>
> >> Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
> >> count either!
> >>
> >> I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
> >>
> >> Kirk
> >
> >Kirk,
> >
> >This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
> >world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
> >combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
> >American, and Asian.
> >For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
> >flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
> >in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
> >rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
> >Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
> >
> >Rob
>
> Turboprops do not have pistons.
>
> Helicopters are definitely aircraft, according to every dictionary
> that I have.
>
> Al Minyard

Just out of curiosity which piston fighters still DO survive in
Africa, South America, or Asia?

Are they just armed trainers? If not, name any of them.

I remember in the late '80s the talk of some African countries using
old WW2 piston fighters like the P-51 and Spitfire.

Do any survive today?

Kenneth Williams

[Mike Marron]

> (Kirk Stant) wrote:

>What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>(guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?

>Just being there doesn't count.

>Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
>count either!

>>I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.

2 Killed in Va. Ultralight Crash After Fall Color Outing


By Jay Mathews
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, October 20, 2003; Page B04


[snipped for brevity]


Ultralights have been adapted to several uses, including aiding the
relocation of endangered birds and for warfare. During the Iraq war
in March, at least two Iraqi ultralights were spotted over U.S. Army
positions, the Army Times has reported.

[Kirk Stant]

(robert arndt) wrote in message >...
> Kirk,
>
> This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
> world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
> combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
> American, and Asian.
> For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
> flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
> in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
> rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
> Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
>
> Rob

First, Tucanos are turboprops - or maybe you didn't know that.
Second, Helos are AIRCRAFT, not AIRPLANES. Third, the fact that a lot
of countries are still using piston (not piton - mountain climbers use
those) powered combat airplanes is interesting, and knowing what kind
are still being used is intersting to me. If it isn't to you, then
you are free to ignore this thread. Just like I ignore your rants
about impossible supersonic Me-262s.

I could have narrowed the field down to piston powered airplanes that
were desingned for combat, but with all the combat versions of
trainers, that would be useless. SF-260W's come to mind - I forgot
about those. But even then, I think you will find that relatively few
piston engined airplanes are used by third world countries for combat
because AVGAS is getting hard to get and is relatively expensive,
while AVTUR (jetfuel, whatever) is relatively cheap and available.

So Rob, bone up a little on aviation, learn to spell, and quit being
an idiot yourself.

Kirk

[Alan Minyard]

On 19 Oct 2003 15:27:03 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:

>Alan Minyard > wrote in message >...
>> On 19 Oct 2003 10:20:38 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:
>>
>> (Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
>> >> What was the last piston-engined airplane (not aircraft - lets keep
>> >> the helo's out of this one) to employ weapons in A/A or A/G combat
>> >> (guns, bombs, rockets, nukes, whatever). Where and when?
>> >>
>> >> Just being there doesn't count.
>> >>
>> >> Oh, and it does have to have a pilot on board - so Predators don't
>> >> count either!
>> >>
>> >> I'll open with T-28D's in the Phillippines - late 80's.
>> >>
>> >> Kirk
>> >
>> >Kirk,
>> >
>> >This is an idiotic question since the inventories of many of the
>> >world's poorest Air Forces still use piton-engined aircraft in a
>> >combat role as of 2003. These Air Forces are largely African, South
>> >American, and Asian.
>> >For example you have the Brazilian Tucano/Super Tucano/ALX which still
>> >flies drug interdiction and has fired on Columbian drug runners both
>> >in the air and ground in recent years. The aircraft carry gun pods,
>> >rockets, and home-made Piranha aams.
>> >Second, helos are not aircraft... they are rotorcraft! Sheesh...
>> >
>> >Rob
>>
>> Turboprops do not have pistons.
>>
>> Helicopters are definitely aircraft, according to every dictionary
>> that I have.
>>
>> Al Minyard
>
>My bad, Al. However, for the reason stated in the first paragraph of
>my post I still think it is an idiotic question. There are plenty of
>true piston-engined a/c in the inventories of the world's AFs that are
>still used in the strike mission primarily.
>Second, the helicopter is an aircraft by basic definition; however,
>most of the military encyclopedias I have been accustomed to further
>classify these aircraft as rotorcraft. I think it's pretty common
>sense to make a distinction between a helicopter and other "aircraft".
>BTW, rotorcraft include: helicopters, gyrocopters, coleopters, etc...
>My apologies to the original poster.

No problem, we all make misstakes :-)

Al Minyard

[[email protected]]

Alan Minyard > wrote:

>No problem, we all make misstakes :-)
>
>Al Minyard

:)

(Perhaps a better distinction might be 'Fixed wing' or 'Rotary
wing'?).

We'd likely make lest mistakes that way?.
--

-Gord.