For those still insisting that France has always been our friend...

[Roman J. Rohleder]

"Garrison Hilliard" > schrieb:
>
>http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm
>
>Seek out "quasi-war"

Forget it. That .mil site seems to be blocked for viewers from abroad.

Huh. Spy? Am I? ;-).

Gruss, Roman

[Juvat]

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Garrison
Hilliard blurted out:

>
>http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm
>
>Seek out "quasi-war"

I'm pretty sure we've gotten over it...as have our friends in France.
I even saw the memo where we've gotten over the burning of DC by the
Brits in the War of 1812.

Juvat

[Garrison Hilliard]

http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm

Seek out "quasi-war"

[Daryl Hunt]

"Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
...
>
> http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm
>
> Seek out "quasi-war"

Ecellent reading. Thanks.

[Skysurfer]

Garrison Hilliard wrote :

> http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm
>
> Seek out "quasi-war"

http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/oct2003/a102203f.html

[Alan Minyard]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 03:53:45 GMT, Juvat > wrote:

>After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Garrison
>Hilliard blurted out:
>
>>
>>http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm
>>
>>Seek out "quasi-war"
>
>I'm pretty sure we've gotten over it...as have our friends in France.
>I even saw the memo where we've gotten over the burning of DC by the
>Brits in the War of 1812.
>
>Juvat

Our "friends in France"? Both of them?

Al Minyard

[BUFDRVR]

>I'm pretty sure we've gotten over it...as have our friends in France.
>I even saw the memo where we've gotten over the burning of DC by the
>Brits in the War of 1812.
>

Not me, if they were going to do it, they should have done it right so that we
could have started all over. A planned city....yeah right!


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[tscottme]

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6976

--

Scott
--------
"If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of church
groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/102203.htm

[tim gueguen]

"tscottme" > wrote in message
...

> "If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of church
> groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
> First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter

Come on, you can't be stupid enough to believe bull**** like that.

tim gueguen 101867

[Cub Driver]

>> "If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of church
>> groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
>> First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
>
>Come on, you can't be stupid enough to believe bull**** like that.

Believe it, Tim!

Obviously you don't live in a university community. (Perhaps, instead
of saying "Democrats", the poster should have said "the Good People".)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[tscottme]

tim gueguen > wrote in message
news:yYUmb.190644$6C4.156042@pd7tw1no...
>
> "tscottme" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > "If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of
church
> > groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising
his
> > First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
>
> Come on, you can't be stupid enough to believe bull**** like that.
>
> tim gueguen 101867

Good point, there's probably no circumstance in which the Democrats
would defend a white, male, military officer, short of his collaborating
with the enemy.

--

Scott
--------
"If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of church
groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/102203.htm

[tim gueguen]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >> "If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of
church
> >> groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
> >> First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
> >
> >Come on, you can't be stupid enough to believe bull**** like that.
>
> Believe it, Tim!
>
Damn, reading you saying something like that is really disappointing.

tim gueguen 101867

[Scott MacEachern]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:47:51 -0500, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>Obviously you don't live in a university community. (Perhaps, instead
>of saying "Democrats", the poster should have said "the Good People".)

I do live in a university community... or at least a college
community... and it's still bull****. Apparently, Ann Coulter is
engaged in a social experiment, trying to find a lie so filthy that
even people who quote her is a .sig file won't believe it. Evidently,
she hasn't found one yet.

Scott

[The Enlightenment]

Scott MacEachern > wrote in message >...
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:47:51 -0500, Cub Driver
> > wrote:
>
> >Obviously you don't live in a university community. (Perhaps, instead
> >of saying "Democrats", the poster should have said "the Good People".)
>
> I do live in a university community... or at least a college
> community... and it's still bull****. Apparently, Ann Coulter is
> engaged in a social experiment, trying to find a lie so filthy that
> even people who quote her is a .sig file won't believe it. Evidently,
> she hasn't found one yet.
>
> Scott

Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or shutup.

[The Enlightenment]

"tscottme" > wrote in message >...
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6976

Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics (I
know its hard to beleive but with a worse attitude). The French are
silenced by the prevailing multicrapism ideology and frightened of
dealing in the world as a proud and independant nation. The Ghost of
Americas future perhaps?

They fear either terrorism on their soil or an electoral backlash.
The muslims have sufficient ethnic consciousness and social cohesion
to achieve that while White westerners are wrecked by self doubt,
guilt and politically correct self loathing that drips like venom form
the parasite infected media and institutions of education.

Here is a far more hard hitting version of what is REALLY going on (in
English):

Avant-Guerre: Chronique d'un cataclysme annoncé
(Pre-War: Account of an Impending Cataclysm)
<http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no2/mo-worldwara.html>

Ironically it was Jean Marie Le Penn who could have changed all that
but he was anti immigration and the lunar left and white hating nazi
baiters prefer the corrupt and pathetic Quisling right winger Chirac
to someone that might preserve an European nation, and prevent its
ethnocide as an European nation.

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> "tscottme" > wrote in message
>...
> > http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6976
>
> Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics (I
> know its hard to beleive but with a worse attitude). The French are
> silenced by the prevailing multicrapism ideology and frightened of
> dealing in the world as a proud and independant nation. The Ghost of
> Americas future perhaps?
>
> They fear either terrorism on their soil or an electoral backlash.
> The muslims have sufficient ethnic consciousness and social cohesion
> to achieve that while White westerners are wrecked by self doubt,
> guilt and politically correct self loathing that drips like venom form
> the parasite infected media and institutions of education.
>
> Here is a far more hard hitting version of what is REALLY going on (in
> English):
>
> Avant-Guerre: Chronique d'un cataclysme annoncé
> (Pre-War: Account of an Impending Cataclysm)
> <http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no2/mo-worldwara.html>
>
> Ironically it was Jean Marie Le Penn who could have changed all that
> but he was anti immigration and the lunar left and white hating nazi
> baiters prefer the corrupt and pathetic Quisling right winger Chirac
> to someone that might preserve an European nation, and prevent its
> ethnocide as an European nation.

Guillaume Faye, the man mentionned in the article linked above, is a
far-right ideologyst, with open tied to european NEO-NAZI parties.
You can use him as a reference, but at your own peril.
For an *Enlightenment" you seem pretty narrow minded and racist (or a plain
red-necked biggot?).
I'm sorry I you're shocked by these words but if you defend Faye's and
LePen's ideas that all you are.
If you really know what ideas they defend, of course.
--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

[Cub Driver]

>Good point, there's probably no circumstance in which the Democrats
>would defend a white, male, military officer, short of his collaborating
>with the enemy.

There is at least a fair chance that they will nominate one.

Circumstances alter cases. In 1992 I was doing the New Hampshire
Primary thing and bumped into my favorite liberal. I offered a pact: I
would write Colin Powell's name into the Republican ballot if she
would do the same on the Democratic one. She said: "Oh! I could
*never* vote for a military man!"

She is now the town chairman for Wesley Clark.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics (I
>know its hard to beleive but with a worse attitude). The French are
>silenced by the prevailing multicrapism ideology and frightened of
>dealing in the world as a proud and independant nation. The Ghost of
>Americas future perhaps?

Well, the Hispanics are mostly Roman Catholic :)

Still, your point is worth taking. While American Muslims are far from
being the homogeneous group you'll find in France (I presume they're
most Algerian-French, or at least with ties to North Africa), Islam
has indeed made remarkable gains in the U.S. In part this is because
of the Black Muslim movement of the 1960s. Many if not a majority of
U.S. Muslims are African-American, and of those, many if not a
majority were baptized as children. It will be interesting to see how
this plays out.

The U.S. of course has had considerable experience with diverse
populations--that's how the country was fashioned. And we don't have a
situation where 90 percent of the population is of European origin and
10 percent North African / Muslim. California is already a state
without a majority ethnic group. The U.S. as a whole will get there
eventually. Indeed, if the "melting pot" hadn't worked so well in
earlier generations, we would have been there almost from the
beginning. Both my parents were born in Ireland. I have no relatives
in the U.S. except my immediate family. I hold Irish and American
passports and citizenship. My only child is married to an Englishman;
my granddaughters hold British and American passports. Yet I feel
perfectly at home here.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[buf3]

(The Enlightenment) wrote in message >...
> Scott MacEachern > wrote in message >...
> > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:47:51 -0500, Cub Driver
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Obviously you don't live in a university community. (Perhaps, instead
> > >of saying "Democrats", the poster should have said "the Good People".)
> >
> > I do live in a university community... or at least a college
> > community... and it's still bull****. Apparently, Ann Coulter is
> > engaged in a social experiment, trying to find a lie so filthy that
> > even people who quote her is a .sig file won't believe it. Evidently,
> > she hasn't found one yet.
> >
> > Scott
>
> Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or shutup.

Go buy Al Franken's bestseller titled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who
Tell Them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" and you can count
them yourself.

[Scott MacEachern]

(The Enlightenment) wrote in message >...

> Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or shutup.

Certainly... the quote in that .sig, for example. That's why I brought
it up. A few other examples, culled at random:

(1) From http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2002/06/27/coulter/index1.html

"The following passage gives a good example of how "Slander" works:

"After Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wrote an opinion contrary
to the clearly expressed position of the New York Times editorial
page, the Times responded with an editorial on Thomas titled 'The
Youngest, Cruelest Justice.' That was actually the headline on a lead
editorial in the Newspaper of Record. Thomas is not engaged on the
substance of his judicial philosophy. He is called 'a colored lawn
jockey for conservative white interests,' 'race traitor,' 'black
snake,' 'chicken-and-biscuit-eating Uncle Tom,' 'house Negro' and
'handkerchief head,' 'Benedict Arnold' and "Judas Iscariot'."

The passage is conveniently phrased to make it look as if the quotes,
as well as the headline, appear in the Times editorial. They don't
(notes in the back of the book identify the sources as former Surgeon
General Jocelyn Elder's interview in Playboy, and Joseph Lowery at a
meeting of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference quoted in the
New Yorker). Coulter sets up the passage to give the impression that
the Times called Thomas a "lawn jockey" and a "house Negro" and hopes
that we won't notice that she's fudged it."

(2) http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/07/tapped-s-07-01.html#500pmcoulter2
(Coulter thinks the left should just get over the whole civil rights
thingie...)

"FACT CHECK ANN COULTER: THE SELMA LIE. Live by LexisNexis, die by
LexisNexis. That certainly seems to be the case with Ann Coulter's
latest book, Slander. Yesterday we exposed a blatantly false statement
in her book about the use of the phrase "liberal Republican" in the
New York Times, and today we expose another. Here is the relevant
passage, from p. 199 of Slander:

Since abortion is not the left's proudest moment, liberals prefer
to keep reminiscing about the last time they were giddily
self-righteous. Like a senile old man who keeps telling you the same
story over and over again, liberals babble on and on about the "heady"
days of civil rights marches. Between 1995 and 2001, the New York
Times alone ran more than one hundred articles on "Selma" alone. I
believe we may have revisited this triumph of theirs sufficiently by
now. For anyone under fifty, the "heady" days of civil rights marches
are something out of a history book. The march on Selma was
thirty-five years ago.

Tapped smelled a rat here. Maybe it was Coulter's repetition of the
word "alone"; or maybe it was the fact that the famous 1965 "Bloody
Sunday" march was from Selma to Montgomery, not a march "on" Selma. So
we searched the New York Times archives on LexisNexis for the word
"Selma" for the years 1995-2001. This produced 776 total hits. Of
these, 424 were death notices, 18 were wedding announcements, 25 were
other sorts of paid notices, 5 were in photo captions, and 234 were
either: a) contents listings; b) people with the name Selma; c)
references to Selma, California; or d) references to Selma, Alabama
that had nothing to do with civil rights (b, c, and d includes letters
and op-eds as well as regular articles). Of the remaining 70 items, in
our judgment only 16 were centrally concerned with historic happenings
at Selma from the civil rights era. The other 54 contained brief
mentions of Selma and civil rights but appeared in articles on
different topics. Once again, Coulter's dubious claim -- that "between
1995 and 2001, the New York Times alone ran more than one hundred
articles on 'Selma'" -- is false."

(3) And, if you want a good _conservative_ look at _Treason_, check
out http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9080,
which is a symposium on the book. When you have a bunch of
conservative critics, trashing the book, that oughta tell you
something.

And that was about 5 minutes of looking. She's a lousy writer,
pandering to credulous nitwits.

Scott

[Stephen Harding]

buf3 wrote:

> Go buy Al Franken's bestseller titled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who
> Tell Them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" and you can count
> them yourself.

Are you familiar with Al Franken's politics?

He can write a book on "Lies and Lying Liars...", but a "Fair and
Balanced Look at the Right" is simply beyond his capabilities.

You need to read BOTH Franken AND O'Reilly. "Fair and balanced"
will most likely lay somewhere in between.


SMH

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: France is Not a Western Country Anymore
>From: (The Enlightenment)
>Date: 10/26/03 9:59 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id:

>Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or
>shutup.

Every time that Coulter calls someone a traitor wih no proof whatever she tells
a lie. She has told thousands so far accusing everyone on sight of being a
taritor. She has one product to sell, hate. And therefore she is the greatest
traitor to American ideals of all.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: France is Not a Western Country Anymore
>From: (Scott MacEachern)
>Date: 10/27/03 6:52 AM

>When you have a bunch of
>conservative critics, trashing the book, that oughta tell you
>something.
>
>And that was about 5 minutes of looking. She's a lousy writer,
>pandering to credulous nitwits.
>
>Scott

And that is putting it mildly.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Chris Mark]

>From: bernxard@yah

>Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics

How well are Muslims integrating into French life? Perhaps a poster from
France can explain the situation.
Hispanics in the US are integrating at a fairly rapid pace, some much faster
than others (the term covering so many national origins). A couple of
examples: More than half of all Hispanics are in white collar jobs (up from 35%
in 1980). English reading scores, out of a possible 500, the Hispanic
immigrant in the US less than 5 years scores 156. Hispanic immigrant in
country more than 10 years, 270. National average for all Americans, 282.
There are tons of these data for Hispanic and other immigrants to the US, all
showing rapid assimilation.
There is also some recent data indicating that the influx of Hispanics into the
US may have already passed its peak, or will do so shortly. And PBS
commentator Richard Rodriguez has announced that George W. Bush is our first
"Hispanic" president.


Chris Mark

[John Penta]

On 27 Oct 2003 16:54:25 GMT, (Chris Mark) wrote:

>>From: bernxard@yah
>
>>Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics
>
>How well are Muslims integrating into French life? Perhaps a poster from
>France can explain the situation.
>Hispanics in the US are integrating at a fairly rapid pace, some much faster
>than others (the term covering so many national origins). A couple of
>examples: More than half of all Hispanics are in white collar jobs (up from 35%
>in 1980). English reading scores, out of a possible 500, the Hispanic
>immigrant in the US less than 5 years scores 156. Hispanic immigrant in
>country more than 10 years, 270. National average for all Americans, 282.
>There are tons of these data for Hispanic and other immigrants to the US, all
>showing rapid assimilation.
>There is also some recent data indicating that the influx of Hispanics into the
>US may have already passed its peak, or will do so shortly. And PBS
>commentator Richard Rodriguez has announced that George W. Bush is our first
>"Hispanic" president.

Umm, that explains only that Hispanics in America are integrating.

Where was the comment or anything on French Muslims in there?

[Skysurfer]

Chris Mark wrote :

>>Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's
>>Hispanics
>
> How well are Muslims integrating into French life? Perhaps a
> poster from France can explain the situation.

Not bad compared to English ones calling for jihad and more 09/11 in
Finsburry Park Mosque ...

[ArVa]

"tscottme" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6976
>

Still as ridiculous as it was when I read it earlier this spring... It's no
better than the usual anti-American stuff (of wich one could find dozen of
links and yet prove nothing...). Indeed jerks have been very productive
this year...

Now, if you actually believe what this article says (given your sig, it
might be the case), then my friend you have a big problem with reality
perception... Sentences such as "[French politicians, all of them,] regard
Western civilization as something filthy and abhorrent" or "[France] is now
the leader of the Arab/Muslim world" are nothing but ludicrous... When I
read that piece a few months ago, I didn't know that "Guy" and made some
search about him. If you could read French and see the other articles he has
written, you'd see how unsound his ideas are. Ann Coulter you seem to
appreciate (so do I but obviously not for her ideas...) sounds like Jane
Fonda compared to him... :-)

Strange BTW to see how you can't stand an article showing that despite the
clash between our respective administrations there is still cooperation
between our countries (and not only on military matters as a matter of
fact), and therefore how you feel compelled to reply with crap to attenuate
this idea...

ArVa

[ArVa]

"The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de
om...

<snip>

And you call yourself "Enlightment"?... Ironic... I especially like your
"what is REALLY going on" part...

> Ironically it was Jean Marie Le Penn who could have <snip>

Nice reference... I don't know if you have a field of expertise but it's
obviously not French politics... Do you know that Le Pen (with one "N") was
the *only* French politician who did support SH (he actually met him in 96)?
This man is a convicted racist and he and his kind are among the *worst*
things Europe has ever produced. Sorry to see it's been exported as far as
Australia (?)...
The extreme right in Europe has a long record of hatred towards the United
States and generally speaking against Liberals of any kind, one of their
motto being "neither trust nor soviet".

I have no doubt there are extremist muslims in France, like in every Western
country, but if you really want to find dangerous people expressing their
hatred in daylight I suggest you leave Paris and just cross the Channel.
Ever heard of "Londonistan"? Ever heard of "Bin London"? Ever heard of the
press conference that was held a few weeks ago withn dozens of journalists
to honor the "martyrdom" of the 9/11 terrorists? Ever heard of the Finsburry
Park mosque?...

ArVa

[D. Jones]

While there may be some good points about the current ethnic makeup of
the population of France, I think the real reason France does what is
does...is because it's French!

France is just France, it always has been. France has not been exactly
what I'd call a "Western Nation" since post World War II, but their
problem is where they beleive they should be on the world stage...and
in Iraq's business.

They hate the British because the French think they are bourgeois and
stupid (as they think about the U.S.), and the Brits lately have sided
with US World Politics...the French do not like having to listen to
the British/U.S. rhetoric. They hate the Germans because,
well...that's fairly obvious...but they are now the "strange
bedfellows." But both countries have a lot of debt tied up in Iraq,
and their own economies could continue to use the trade boost they
would have if THEY were the preemminent powers dealing with Iraq.

The French want to be in the arena of World Politics on their own
terms, and they do not want to be out of the limelight...it also
doesn't hurt that an incursion into Iraq would distrub the trade they
have established with that country, and the possibility of having the
debt Iraq has with France being repaid...and maybe they sold some
things to Iraq that a lot of folks might not be too pleased about.

Everyone wants in on Iraq's recovery because it's economy is based on
oil which can always produce fast hard currency; but, no one wants the
mess that goes with it. So here we are.

Bottomline: The Coalition invaded, removed Saddam from power, and now
we have a industrialized country with a ravaged infrastructure wrought
not just by the two wars but by years and years of sanctions and gross
mismanagement by Saddam and his cronies. Now who will help the Iraqis
to help themselves out of the hole they are currently in? Who can
afford to help them? Can we afford not to help them?

Simple answer really. It just has to be done, the UN and the EU should
chip in and do their part but the bulk of the aid and assistance will
have to come from the U.S. as usual. Now we could back off a bit on
our rhetoric about the U.S. running the entire show 'casue you get
more bees with honey than with vinegar, yes? So if all involved would
back off their extreme positions just a bit maybe the Iraqi people
might not suffer so much more, and maybe they'd lead us to even more
of these cowards who are running around blowing up cars...although I
think soon the Iraqi people will have had enough of that crap anyway.
The thing is...who will they really blame for the bombings? Us or the
terrorists?

Time will tell.

DJ

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >,
Skysurfer > writes
>Chris Mark wrote :
>> How well are Muslims integrating into French life? Perhaps a
>> poster from France can explain the situation.
>
>Not bad compared to English ones calling for jihad and more 09/11 in
>Finsburry Park Mosque ...

One of the jihadi organisations staged a "mass protest" in Trafalgar
Square.

They got about a dozen protesters. Who were outnumbered both by the
British National Party uglies (home-grown racist party) who came in the
hope of a fight, and the police keeping the factions apart and
dissuading any incidents.

Something to bear in mind when they claim enormous levels of support...


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"D. Jones" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> While there may be some good points about the current ethnic makeup of
> the population of France, I think the real reason France does what is
> does...is because it's French!
>

I think you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
If you really believe what you just wrote in this post, and you want to
learn about France, contact me by email and we'll talk about it; that's what
the Internet is all about, isn't it?

> France is just France, it always has been. France has not been exactly
> what I'd call a "Western Nation" since post World War II, but their
> problem is where they beleive they should be on the world stage...and
> in Iraq's business.


Anybody that truly believes that France isn't a "Western Nation" just has to
get out of his basement once in a while.

--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: France is Not a Western Country Anymore
>From: "Pierre-Henri Baras"
>Date: 10/27/03 11:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>
>"D. Jones" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
>> While there may be some good points about the current ethnic makeup of
>> the population of France, I think the real reason France does what is
>> does...is because it's French!
>>
>
>I think you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
>If you really believe what you just wrote in this post, and you want to
>learn about France, contact me by email and we'll talk about it; that's what
>the Internet is all about, isn't it?
>
>> France is just France, it always has been. France has not been exactly
>> what I'd call a "Western Nation" since post World War II, but their
>> problem is where they beleive they should be on the world stage...and
>> in Iraq's business.
>
>
>Anybody that truly believes that France isn't a "Western Nation" just has to
>get out of his basement once in a while.
>
>--
>_________________________________________
>Pierre-Henri BARAS
>
>Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
>http://www.ffaa.net
>Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
>http://www.aviation-fr.info
>
>

When I came home from the war I received a very nice book from the French
government thanking me for my service during the war. After 60 years I still
have it. Nice of them to do that.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, tscottme
> writes
>tim gueguen > wrote in message
>news:yYUmb.190644$6C4.156042@pd7tw1no...
>> Come on, you can't be stupid enough to believe bull**** like that.
>
>Good point, there's probably no circumstance in which the Democrats
>would defend a white, male, military officer, short of his collaborating
>with the enemy.

Unless he's running for the Democratic nomination?

Don't hold much of a brief for Wesley Clark, but last time I looked he
was white, male, and had been a military officer of some seniority.


I hear soundbites running ahead of common sense, which is an apolitical
malady afflicting enthusiasts of all sides.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[Cub Driver]

>Go buy Al Franken's bestseller titled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who
>Tell Them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" and you can count
>them yourself.

One man's lie is another man's eternal truth. I am proud to say that I
have never read either Coulter nor Franken.

I can get all the liberal hogwash I need from the Talk of the Town
pages of The New Yorker.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>You need to read BOTH Franken AND O'Reilly. "Fair and balanced"
>will most likely lay somewhere in between.

No, no, Stephen! You don't need to read either or any of them!

The Constitution guarantees Franken's and Coulter's right to free
speech. It does not guarantee that I will listen to anything they have
to say: I won't.

(I don't know about O'Reilly. Who is O'Reilly? ... No, on second
thought, don't tell me. I don't want to know.)

It's nonsense that you have to listen to both sides. You don't have to
listen to any side. Just read a lot, think a lot, and come to your own
conclusion. Stay away from interpreters as if they had SARS.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>>Not bad compared to English ones calling for jihad and more 09/11 in
>>Finsburry Park Mosque ...

Ah, that takes me back! One summer I came back from hitchhiking the
Continent (aka Old Europe) and I had very few traveler's checks
between me and the boat leaving for the U.S. I spotted an advert for
Mr. Hussein's in Finsbury Park: "All races welcome." That promised low
rates, so I took the Number 10? bus from Tottenham Court Road and
signed in. It was very pleasant. Every morning Mrs. Hussein would ask
me what I wanted for breakfast next day, and I said "sausages." I
never got them, and I never stopped asking. Remarkable how dense young
people can be.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Seraphim]

(buf3) wrote in news:99619b10.0310270524.25d5cd86
@posting.google.com:

> Go buy Al Franken's bestseller titled "Lies and the Lying Liars Who
> Tell Them, A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" and you can count
> them yourself.

Its satire, not something you want to use as a primary source.

[George Z. Bush]

Cub Driver wrote:

> (I don't know about O'Reilly. Who is O'Reilly? ... No, on second
> thought, don't tell me. I don't want to know.)

Who's O"Reilly? Surely you remember the gentleman of that old barroom song that
referred to something like "shagging his daughter"? Please don't tell me that
your memory is that far gone! (^-^)))

George Z.

[phil hunt]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:13:27 +0100, Pierre-Henri Baras > wrote:
>
>Anybody that truly believes that France isn't a "Western Nation" just has to
>get out of his basement once in a while.

His parents' basement, more like.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[The Enlightenment]

(Scott MacEachern) wrote in message >...
> (The Enlightenment) wrote in message >...
>
> > Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or shutup.
>
> Certainly... the quote in that .sig, for example. That's why I brought
> it up. A few other examples, culled at random:
>
> (1) From http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2002/06/27/coulter/index1.html
>
> "The following passage gives a good example of how "Slander" works:
>
> "After Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas wrote an opinion contrary
> to the clearly expressed position of the New York Times editorial
> page, the Times responded with an editorial on Thomas titled 'The
> Youngest, Cruelest Justice.' That was actually the headline on a lead
> editorial in the Newspaper of Record. Thomas is not engaged on the
> substance of his judicial philosophy. He is called 'a colored lawn
> jockey for conservative white interests,' 'race traitor,' 'black
> snake,' 'chicken-and-biscuit-eating Uncle Tom,' 'house Negro' and
> 'handkerchief head,' 'Benedict Arnold' and "Judas Iscariot'."
>
> The passage is conveniently phrased to make it look as if the quotes,
> as well as the headline, appear in the Times editorial. They don't
> (notes in the back of the book identify the sources as former Surgeon
> General Jocelyn Elder's interview in Playboy, and Joseph Lowery at a
> meeting of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference quoted in the
> New Yorker). Coulter sets up the passage to give the impression that
> the Times called Thomas a "lawn jockey" and a "house Negro" and hopes
> that we won't notice that she's fudged it."

That is pretty pathetic even for a hatchet job. I don't get the
implied ambiguity but then I have an adult reading age. Itis even
clearer read in the context of her book and her style. Furthermore as
you point out she supplied endnotes on her work its not a lie and its
not even mildly misleading but then if you're a zealot things look a
little different.

As for the NYT it really did miss the Ukranian genocide of 4.5 million
people. Biased rag. "At least I didn't miss the Ukrainian famine.
<Cf.> Pulitzer prize winning New York Times reporter Walter Duranty"


>
> (2) http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2002/07/tapped-s-07-01.html#500pmcoulter2
> (Coulter thinks the left should just get over the whole civil rights
> thingie...)
>
> "FACT CHECK ANN COULTER: THE SELMA LIE. Live by LexisNexis, die by
> LexisNexis. That certainly seems to be the case with Ann Coulter's
> latest book, Slander. Yesterday we exposed a blatantly false statement
> in her book about the use of the phrase "liberal Republican" in the
> New York Times, and today we expose another. Here is the relevant
> passage, from p. 199 of Slander:
>
> Since abortion is not the left's proudest moment, liberals prefer
> to keep reminiscing about the last time they were giddily
> self-righteous. Like a senile old man who keeps telling you the same
> story over and over again, liberals babble on and on about the "heady"
> days of civil rights marches. Between 1995 and 2001, the New York
> Times alone ran more than one hundred articles on "Selma" alone. I
> believe we may have revisited this triumph of theirs sufficiently by
> now. For anyone under fifty, the "heady" days of civil rights marches
> are something out of a history book. The march on Selma was
> thirty-five years ago.
>
> Tapped smelled a rat here. Maybe it was Coulter's repetition of the
> word "alone"; or maybe it was the fact that the famous 1965 "Bloody
> Sunday" march was from Selma to Montgomery, not a march "on" Selma.


Pardon moi, who gives a **** whether the march was from selma to
mongomery, form mongomery to selma or on selma or via charlies
chocklate elevator. It's not a substantive issue and certainly not a
"lie"

SNIP
>
> (3) And, if you want a good _conservative_ look at _Treason_, check
> out http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9080,
> which is a symposium on the book. When you have a bunch of
> conservative critics, trashing the book, that oughta tell you
> something.

Calling a neocon, pro-immigration, half jewish guy (on his fathers
side) "conservative" is as accurate as calling Ghenkis Khan a nomad.


>
> And that was about 5 minutes of looking. She's a lousy writer,
> pandering to credulous nitwits.

She's better then you and she's not pandering to a hair spliting
nitiwits.

As far as hatchet jobs go: keep your day job.

[The Enlightenment]

"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message >...
> "The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> > "tscottme" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6976
> >
SNIP
> >
> > Avant-Guerre: Chronique d'un cataclysme annoncé
> > (Pre-War: Account of an Impending Cataclysm)
> > <http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no2/mo-worldwara.html>
> >
> > Ironically it was Jean Marie Le Penn who could have changed all that
> > but he was anti immigration and the lunar left and white hating nazi
> > baiters prefer the corrupt and pathetic Quisling right winger Chirac
> > to someone that might preserve an European nation, and prevent its
> > ethnocide as an European nation.
>
> Guillaume Faye, the man mentionned in the article linked above, is a
> far-right ideologyst, with open tied to european NEO-NAZI parties.
> You can use him as a reference, but at your own peril.

Yeah well he's right wing, anti-immigration and anti-ethnocide
1/ Nothing wrong with that.
2/ Eventualy some sliming cockcroach will try and add the Nazi label
to anyone with any one of those views.

> For an *Enlightenment" you seem pretty narrow minded and racist (or a plain
> red-necked biggot?).

I prefer the term "race realist", I am a student of "human
biodiveristy".

I am a pan european White activist. My purpose is to defend the
diverse White peoples of the world who originated in Europe against
slander, villfications and to give them a right to speak with a voice
as a White Person the same as Blacks and Jews can without being
attacked. White people have the right to express their unique
cultural and ethnic heritage and they have some right to live in
nations in which they are not "Kurdified".

I find myself substantialy in agreement with Stanley Womaks Resisting
Defamations web site: http://www.resistingdefamation.org/

> I'm sorry I you're shocked by these words but if you defend Faye's and
> LePen's ideas that all you are.

I'm not shocked by any of the deluded labels and slack thinking
politically correct nutters can come up with anymore.

One day you will learn to debate or make substantive points instead of
attempting to project labels on the the unknown as "Nazi" or "racist"
or "redeck". (Incidently I am probably more educated than you)

I'm trying to save your French ass as well.

> If you really know what ideas they defend, of course.

One of Le Penn's ideas was to prevent donations of Saudi and other
middle eastern nations money to Mosques in France as long as this was
also prevented form erecting churches in their countries.

Sounds good to me and eminently more sensible for any western nation
then any of the ideas the treasonous elites running France now have.
I don't know all of LePenns or Faye's ideas and I don't believe I
agree with all but I could go with them.

Having seen what parts of France have become and how it is continuing
wish it had of happened years ago.

2-3 years ago I would have described myself as left wing or liberal.
I'm now happy to be a White Racialist and please no such terms as
"hater" or "supremacist"

[The Enlightenment]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
> >Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics (I
> >know its hard to beleive but with a worse attitude). The French are
> >silenced by the prevailing multicrapism ideology and frightened of
> >dealing in the world as a proud and independant nation. The Ghost of
> >Americas future perhaps?
>
> Well, the Hispanics are mostly Roman Catholic :)
>
> Still, your point is worth taking. While American Muslims are far from
> being the homogeneous group you'll find in France (I presume they're
> most Algerian-French, or at least with ties to North Africa),

North African: either Arab or Black.

> Islam
> has indeed made remarkable gains in the U.S. In part this is because
> of the Black Muslim movement of the 1960s. Many if not a majority of
> U.S. Muslims are African-American, and of those, many if not a
> majority were baptized as children. It will be interesting to see how
> this plays out.

Black American Islam is odd (judged by middle eastern norms) and in
some of its forms would be considered herectical in the middle east,
not that the Black American muslims are concerned with that
disapproval. They are afterall americans by ethnicity.

The situation is not as France in which there are possibly 14 million
muslims of Nth African/Arab decent (someting equivalen to raical
privacy laws prevents proper data). Most of the S11 attackers were
based in France at one point.


>
> The U.S. of course has had considerable experience with diverse
> populations--that's how the country was fashioned.




> And we don't have a
> situation where 90 percent of the population is of European origin and
> 10 percent North African / Muslim. California is already a state
> without a majority ethnic group. The U.S. as a whole will get there
> eventually.

Unless Astlan, the mexian superstate some chicano supremacist promote
splits the nation. Hispanics are tollerated a high degree of ethnic
indentity that American Whites are not. You migh think its remote but
its a demograpahic possibility.

> Indeed, if the "melting pot" hadn't worked so well in
> earlier generations, we would have been there almost from the
> beginning. Both my parents were born in Ireland. I have no relatives
> in the U.S. except my immediate family. I hold Irish and American
> passports and citizenship. My only child is married to an Englishman;
> my granddaughters hold British and American passports. Yet I feel
> perfectly at home here.

There are of parts of the country where you can not function without
speaking spannish and will need to travel an hour before you can rely
on finding english.


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/GuestColumns/London20031014.shtml
Looking for America in Chicago
Herbert London

Eurpeans consist of approximetly 50 ethnicticy, relatively diverse
they are united by much in common. Indo-Germanics may as well be
called Celto-Germanics as they hold much in common linguistically and
in the structure of their pre-christian religions.

America was built on the same ethnies that were indigenous to Europe
though it started as a predominatly Nth Eruopean one. There was an
suddently influx of Italians during the revolution there and Irish
during the famine. Just more europeans though in some cases a
tempororay problem. The Irish for instance were often poor because
they could not speak English and were illiterate in both languages.
(nothing like strets of NY) It was a social problem that would go
away and had little to do with prejudice.

Some of the problems the US has now are not going away: such as racial
set asides for even new immigrant Hispanics. There is obviously a
limited capacity to pay for this.

Between 1925 to 1965 the immigraion restriction act limited immigraion
to (300,000?) and in proportiin to the ethnic ratios present then in
the US population.

Ending it didn't help Black men. They were then 85% to 90% employed
and cheaper Hispanic labour has replaced them so now their emplyment
levels are 50%. Americas jails are the fuller for it probably. So
much for the civil rights act.

"Diverse" America may work but consider that it may not stack up well
against the more homogenous chinese who are unburdened by economicaly
and educationaly sub-averge groups. It may work but your children and
grandchildren may not be all that well of within it. Its not all beer
and skittles as your son in law migh say.


>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email:
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[The Enlightenment]

(Chris Mark) wrote in message >...
> >From: bernxard@yah
>
> >Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they are France's Hispanics
>
> How well are Muslims integrating into French life? Perhaps a poster from
> France can explain the situation.


Not well since my last trip there. My friend got pick pocjeted by a
group of 4+ in my presence. We need Charles Martell to sort this one
out IMOP


> Hispanics in the US are integrating at a fairly rapid pace, some much faster
> than others (the term covering so many national origins). A couple of
> examples: More than half of all Hispanics are in white collar jobs
> (up from 35% in 1980). English reading scores, out of a possible 500,
> the Hispanic immigrant in the US less than 5 years scores 156.
> Hispanic immigrant in country more than 10 years, 270. National average for > all Americans, 282.

> There are tons of these data for Hispanic and other immigrants to the US, all
> showing rapid assimilation.

The US averge for English is appaling: pulled down by a very low black
rate so "282" is hardly likely to be impressive. Since Blacks test
for IQ at 85 and SECOND generation Hispanics only marignally better at
92 we are actualy seeing either a dysgenic effect an certainly a
lowering of education and cognitive abillity.

Very wide gaps between blacks and hispanics at one end of the scale
(getting worse and widening after a tiny improvement) and Whites are
very apparent.

There is some data and links to this here:
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/no_excuses.htm

Whole regions of the US now have crap english and crap spannish as
some are even illiterat in their own tongue.


> There is also some recent data indicating that the influx of Hispanics into the
> US may have already passed its peak, or will do so shortly.


I'd call that a deluded pipe dream and the Birth rate is still
enormous.

And PBS

PBS? Pfffft

> commentator Richard Rodriguez has announced that George W. Bush is our first
> "Hispanic" president.


Pfffft. Yep Bush is a bit of a pandering Quisling in that regard.
Isn't Jeb married to a Hispanic?

How to talk about race in the meocon Republican party. Don't.

>
>
> Chris Mark

[Scott MacEachern]

(The Enlightenment) wrote :

> I don't get the implied ambiguity...

Of _course_ you don't, and Coulter loves you for it. As I said, she
_needs_ credulous nitwits.

> Pardon moi, who gives a **** whether the march was from selma to
> mongomery, form mongomery to selma or on selma or via charlies
> chocklate elevator.

Nice to see an adult writing style to go along with your adult reading
style... In any case, she said "...liberals babble on and on about the
"heady"
days of civil rights marches. Between 1995 and 2001, the New York
Times alone ran more than one hundred articles on "Selma" alone..."
while a quick check showed that that was not the case. It's a fairly
substantive criticism, given the claim she was making.

> Calling a neocon, pro-immigration, half jewish guy (on his fathers
> side) "conservative" is as accurate as calling Ghenkis Khan a nomad.

It's impossible to be a neoconservative if you're half jewish? Dear
me... but at least that makes it easier to see where you're coming
from. As for being pro-immigration: given the number of neo-cons who
trace their political heritage to that immigrant, Leo Strauss, you may
want to rethink that particular epithet.

Scott

[Pierre-Henri Baras]

"The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> Cub Driver > wrote in message
>...

> >
> > Still, your point is worth taking. While American Muslims are far from
> > being the homogeneous group you'll find in France (I presume they're
> > most Algerian-French, or at least with ties to North Africa),
>
> North African: either Arab or Black.

The word Arab refers to people that speak an arabic language. Not to a so
called "race".

North-Africans are not "Arabs". Irakis, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Omanis are what
you call "Arabs". Algerians, Tunisians and Moroccans are Maghrebians.


>
> Black American Islam is odd (judged by middle eastern norms) and in
> some of its forms would be considered herectical in the middle east,
> not that the Black American muslims are concerned with that
> disapproval. They are afterall americans by ethnicity.
>
> The situation is not as France in which there are possibly 14 million
> muslims of Nth African/Arab decent (someting equivalen to raical
> privacy laws prevents proper data).

14 million. Yeah right. 1 out of 4 frenchmen is north african?
Divide it by 3 and you'll be getting closer

Most of the S11 attackers were
> based in France at one point.

And in Germany. And in the USA.


--
_________________________________________
Pierre-Henri BARAS

Co-webmaster de French Fleet Air Arm
http://www.ffaa.net
Encyclopédie de l'Aviation sur le web
http://www.aviation-fr.info

[Matt Wiser]

Skysurfer > wrote:
>Chris Mark wrote :
>
>>>Yep, about 10% of France is now Muslim, they
>are France's
>>>Hispanics
>>
>> How well are Muslims integrating into French
>life? Perhaps a
>> poster from France can explain the situation.
>
>
>Not bad compared to English ones calling for
>jihad and more 09/11 in
>Finsburry Park Mosque ...
I remember those clowns on CBS News-they had something on them during the
9/11 anniversary coverage. Seems that Mosque is under both British and American
investigation for being an Al-Queda Front and recruiting operation-wasn't
the shoe bomber from there? Now he's in Trinidad, Colorado's Supermax serving
life-and he won't get out unless it's in a pine box.

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: France is Not a Western Country Anymore
>From: (Scott MacEachern)
>Date: 10/28/03 6:36 AM Pacific Standard Time

>Nice to see an adult writing style to go along with your adult reading
>style... In any case, she said "...liberals babble on and on about the
>"heady"
>days of civil rights marches. Between 1995 and 2001, the New York
>Times alone ran more than one hundred articles on "Selma" alone..."
>while a quick check showed that that was not the case. It's a fairly
>substantive criticism, given the claim she was making.
>


>Scott

Selma changed America forever and will always be remembered for having done
so. Only fools or those with anti democratic agendas like Coulter try to
forget, And try to intimidate others into forgetting. Truly evil. Selma is one
of the truly great events in American history.People of conscience will never
forget.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Chris Mark]

>From: bernxard@

>> How well are Muslims integrating into >>French life?

>Not well since my last trip there.

"A relative lack of interest in Islam has also been confirmed by the French
police in interviews with many of the young persons of North African descent
who have been apprehended and charged in the attacks [on Jews]. This is not
particularly surprising. In fact, until lately the image of Islamists in
French-North African popular culture was, if anything, likely to be a negative
one. Mahmoud Zemmouri’s 1997 movie 100% Arabica, starring the hugely popular
Algerian-born rai singers Khaled and Cheb Mami, depicts the imams in a French
banlieue as brutal puritanical power-mongers — and as being in bed with the
local political establishment to boot. The movie ends with a scene of a rai
concert being broken up by Islamist thugs swinging baseball bats."
--from John Rosenthal's article "Anti-semitism and Ethnicity in Europe" in the
current issue of Policy Review. Complete article at:

http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/rosenthal.html

So, apparently, the situation is filled with the usual complications.

>so "282" is hardly likely to be impressive.
The number itself is not what is significant in this context. The significance
is how rapidly the Hispanic immigrant approaches the US average, however
wretched that may be, in *English* reading skill, suggesting that those who
insist Hispanics are forming a permanent internal alien class of non-English
speakers, are wrong.

>Since Blacks test
>for IQ at 85 and SECOND generation Hispanics only marignally better at
>92 we are actualy seeing either a dysgenic effect an certainly a
>lowering of education and cognitive abillity.

Damfino, but since those who predict these things are suggesting that the next
great wave of immigration into the US of A will come from East Asia, and since
people like J. Phillippe Rushton, developmental psychologist at the University
of Western Ontario, argue that "mogoloids" are like, um, really, really smart
(see for example, his essay "Race, brain size and intelligence" in Personality
and Individual Differences), maybe this doesn't matter, especially since males
of all races seem to eagerly breed with "mongoloid" women. Oh, dear,
miscegenation, that dreadful act that gives us such troglodytes as Tiger
Woods.

>Very wide gaps between blacks and hispanics at one end of the scale
>(getting worse and widening after a tiny improvement) and Whites are
>very apparent.
>
>There is some data and links to this here:
>http://www.vdare.com/sailer/no_excuses.htm

Clicking on that site I see a review of the book "No Excuses: Closing the
Racial Gap in Learning," by Harvard historian Stephan Thernstrom and his wife,
Manhattan Institute think-tanker Abigail,
in which the reviewer summarizes the authors' findings as: "Why does this
racial learning gap exist? The Thernstroms’ basic argument is (to put it more
bluntly than they would): black and Hispanic students ain't dumb—they're just
lazy."

Granting that to be true, it says nothing about their native intelligence, as
you appear to suggest.

>Whole regions of the US now have crap english and crap spannish as
>some are even illiterat in their own >tongue.

You don't say.

>> commentator Richard Rodriguez has announced that George W. Bush is our
>first
>> "Hispanic" president.

>Pfffft. Yep Bush is a bit of a pandering Quisling in that regard.

Rodriquez' view is that Bush sees the world in north-south terms rather than
east-west terms, thus making him "Hispanic" in world outlook. Don't know that
I agree with that assessment--or even understand its significance--but it did
strike me as interesting that a man of left-wing views whose father was born in
Mexico sees GW Bush as a "Hispanic."

>Isn't Jeb married to a Hispanic?

Columba was born in--gasp! shudder!--Mexico. Interesting how many American
"conservatives" marry outside "the race"; another one who pops immediately to
mind is Sen. Phil Gramm,
married to Korean-American economist Wendy Lee.
Of course, this could be just a sign that race is rapidly declining in
significance in American life. Surveys of Generation Y, the largest birth
cohort in American history, indicate race, gender and sexual preference have
virtually zero significance for these young people, who tend to judge people on
an individual basis and not group them by category, as their elders so often
do. What a terrible development.

>How to talk about race in the meocon Republican party. Don't.

Being a Democrat, I wouldn't know.



Chris Mark

[John Mullen]

"Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
...
>
> "The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de
news:
> ...
> > Cub Driver > wrote in message
> >...
>
> > >
> > > Still, your point is worth taking. While American Muslims are far from
> > > being the homogeneous group you'll find in France (I presume they're
> > > most Algerian-French, or at least with ties to North Africa),
> >
> > North African: either Arab or Black.
>
> The word Arab refers to people that speak an arabic language. Not to a so
> called "race".

Like most racists, 'The Enlightenment' isn't that hot on knowing what 'race'
actually means.

> North-Africans are not "Arabs". Irakis, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Omanis are what
> you call "Arabs". Algerians, Tunisians and Moroccans are Maghrebians.
>
>
> >
> > Black American Islam is odd (judged by middle eastern norms) and in
> > some of its forms would be considered herectical in the middle east,
> > not that the Black American muslims are concerned with that
> > disapproval. They are afterall americans by ethnicity.
> >
> > The situation is not as France in which there are possibly 14 million
> > muslims of Nth African/Arab decent (someting equivalen to raical
> > privacy laws prevents proper data).
>
> 14 million. Yeah right. 1 out of 4 frenchmen is north african?
> Divide it by 3 and you'll be getting closer

Like most racists, 'The Enlightenment' isn't that hot on numbers either.

> Most of the S11 attackers were
> > based in France at one point.
>
> And in Germany. And in the USA.

'Saudi' Arabia should probably be mentioned at this point.

John

[phil hunt]

On 28 Oct 2003 05:50:24 -0800, The Enlightenment > wrote:
>
>The situation is not as France in which there are possibly 14 million
>muslims of Nth African/Arab decent

14 million? Where do you get that figure from?

[phil hunt]

On 28 Oct 2003 06:06:19 -0800, The Enlightenment > wrote:
>Whole regions of the US now have crap english and crap spannish as
>some are even illiterat in their own tongue.

I hear Australia is almost as bad :-)

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[David Anderson]

(The Enlightenment) wrote in message >...
> Scott MacEachern > wrote in message >...
> > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:47:51 -0500, Cub Driver
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Obviously you don't live in a university community. (Perhaps, instead
> > >of saying "Democrats", the poster should have said "the Good People".)
> >
> > I do live in a university community... or at least a college
> > community... and it's still bull****. Apparently, Ann Coulter is
> > engaged in a social experiment, trying to find a lie so filthy that
> > even people who quote her is a .sig file won't believe it. Evidently,
> > she hasn't found one yet.
> >
> > Scott
>
> Find one "lie" that Ann Coulter has told. I challenge you. Put up or shutup.


How about in her book "Slander" where she claimed that the New York
Times did not address the death of Dale Ernhardt for several days
because of its cultural elitism and disdain for Nascar fans while in
reality the New York Times the next morning had a front page article
about his death.
If you really want to see Ann Coulter and her tenous grasp of facts
please go to this website: http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh072202.shtml
for Exhibit 1, http://www.dailyhowler.com/n070802.shtml for Exhibit 2,
http://pub146.ezboard.com/flipoliticsmessageboardforumsfrm8.showMessage?topi cID=897.topic
for a link to a published review of Slander which notes massive
factual errors.

Coulter is a cheap political hack that specializes in invective and
ideology, and not facts.

Dave

[The Enlightenment]

"John Mullen" > wrote in message >...
> "Pierre-Henri Baras" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "The Enlightenment" > a écrit dans le message de
> > news:
> > ...
> > > Cub Driver > wrote in message
> > >...
> >
> > > >
> > > > Still, your point is worth taking. While American Muslims are far from
> > > > being the homogeneous group you'll find in France (I presume they're
> > > > most Algerian-French, or at least with ties to North Africa),
> > >
> > > North African: either Arab or Black.
> >
> > The word Arab refers to people that speak an arabic language. Not to a so
> > called "race".

I said they were Arab or Black. Its an appropriate statment that
conveys precise and complete information.

Arab refers to an ancestral grouping and therefor as well as to a
cultural grouping. The two go hand in hand. For purposes of
practicalities, cohesion and generosity one might include those Blacks
or Arab-black mulattos that entered the Arab ethnie as a result of
trade contacts or as slaves as "Arab". Unless you are blind you don't
conflated Arabs with Finns nor do you conflate Arabs with Subsaharan
blacks. There are some very dark skinned arabs of course and some
that are blond but they are still Arab and not sub-saharan black.


>
> Like most racists, 'The Enlightenment' isn't that hot on knowing what 'race'
> actually means.

The classic taxonomic division is Causcoid, Negroid, Mongoloid. (Some
people include a 4th division for the Melanesian people of Papaua New
Guinee). There is nothing wrong with finner divisions beyond these 3
to account for differences in genetics and ancestry. In fact these
divisions are necessary and intuititive I.E Sth American Indians
and East Asians (like Chinese) are both classified as Mongoloid under
this taxonomy.

Paleolithic Europeans were seperated by the ice age for 40,000 years
before a small influx of neolithic genes from the middle near east
that no more than 20% to the gene pool.

>
> > North-Africans are not "Arabs". Irakis, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Omanis are what
> > you call "Arabs". Algerians, Tunisians and Moroccans are Maghrebians.

Strawman, Hair Splitting and Misrepreseantaion. A typical tactic of
the race denier. Human biodiveristy exists. Live with the facts.


> >
> >
> > >
> > > Black American Islam is odd (judged by middle eastern norms) and in
> > > some of its forms would be considered herectical in the middle east,
> > > not that the Black American muslims are concerned with that
> > > disapproval. They are afterall americans by ethnicity.
> > >
> > > The situation is not as France in which there are possibly 14 million
> > > muslims of Nth African/Arab decent (someting equivalen to raical
> > > privacy laws prevents proper data).
> >
> > 14 million. Yeah right. 1 out of 4 frenchmen is north african?
> > Divide it by 3 and you'll be getting closer

Up to 14 million "may" be have Nth African ancestry. Personaly I
beleive the figure is closer to 7 million. Accurate data is NOT
available becuase of what is effectively something equivalent to the
Ward Connoly's proposed US racial privacy laws that prevent the
government form collecting racial data.

>
> Like most racists, 'The Enlightenment' isn't that hot on numbers either.
>
> > Most of the S11 attackers were
> > > based in France at one point.
> >
> > And in Germany. And in the USA.

Predominantly France. It is a sea amongst which the terrorist might
swim as Mao put it.

>
> 'Saudi' Arabia should probably be mentioned at this point.

Indeed.

>
> John