Questions about Fox one, fox two etc..

[tw]

First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox one"?

Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2 as
denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a heat
seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be head on with an
AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to me that "Fox 1" was
used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2" when launching a 'winder/heat
seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this generally correct? What would an F 14
pilot call when launching a phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.

Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap being fired
at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone else's concern is it?
(or if it is, there isn't much they can do about it)

Just wondering...

[tscottme]

tw > wrote in message
...
<snip >
> Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap being
fired
> at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone else's concern is
it?
> (or if it is, there isn't much they can do about it)
>
> Just wondering...
>

As a civilian I would guess that since fighters that launch missiles
rarely travel alone, it is valuable to alert friendly aircraft nearby
that the streak they may see is your weapon and not an opponent's weapon
nobody else noticed.

--

Scott
--------
"If Gen. Boykin had been caught giving talks to NAMBLA instead of church
groups, Democrats would be hailing him as a patriot for exercising his
First Amendment rights." Ann Coulter
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2003/102203.htm

[monkey]

"tscottme" > wrote in message >...
> tw > wrote in message
> ...
> <snip >
> > Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap being
> fired
> > at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone else's concern is
> it?
> > (or if it is, there isn't much they can do about it)
> >
> > Just wondering...
> >
>
> As a civilian I would guess that since fighters that launch missiles
> rarely travel alone, it is valuable to alert friendly aircraft nearby
> that the streak they may see is your weapon and not an opponent's weapon
> nobody else noticed.

well, remember there are also GCI or AWACS folks listening in as
well...also, when we fire an AIM-9 it is an IR missile which may guide
on the nearest aircraft regardless of who you fire it at...once a
heater goes you need to let people know because unlike a radar missile
like an AIM-7, you can't call it off. Also, when fighters are
executing their free and engaged contracts sgainst a bandit, it is
always good to know when your partner fires, it sort of sets up a
"cadence" for what the two of you are doing as a team.

[ArVa]

"tw" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
one"?

> seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this generally correct?

I thought the call when firing guns was "guns, guns, guns". Or is it only in
movies and videogames?...

ArVa

[Matt Wiser]

"ArVa" > wrote:
>"tw" > a écrit dans le message de
...
>> First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One"
>-> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
>one"?
>
>> seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this generally
>correct?
>
>I thought the call when firing guns was "guns,
>guns, guns". Or is it only in
>movies and videogames?...
>
>ArVa
>
>
Fox 1 is usually taken to be a Sparrow/AIM-7 shot; Fox 2 is Sidewinder;
Fox 3 in the F-14 community is the Phoenix/AIM-54, while in the AF with F-15,16,
and soon to be F/A-22, and the Navy/Marine F/A-18 communities, Fox 3 is the
AMMRAM/AIM-120 shot.
They usually call guns, guns, guns, when shooting their Vulcans.

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

[Thomas Schoene]

"tw" > wrote in message

> First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
> one"?
>
> Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2 as
> denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
> heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
> head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
> me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
> when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
> generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
> phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.

IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique call for
an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't be
called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you call it
at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
action.)

> Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap
> being fired at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone
> else's concern is it? (or if it is, there isn't much they can do
> about it)

Everyone else in the fight needs to know there's a missile in the air so
they don't stumble across in front of it. Missiles tend to be
non-discriminating killers.

Also, in peacetime training, it alerts participants to a simulated launch so
they can behave accordingly.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[monkey]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message et>...
> "tw" > wrote in message
>
> > First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
> > one"?
> >
> > Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2 as
> > denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
> > heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
> > head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
> > me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
> > when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
> > generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
> > phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.
>
> IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique call for
> an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't be
> called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you call it
> at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
> action.)
>
> > Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap
> > being fired at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone
> > else's concern is it? (or if it is, there isn't much they can do
> > about it)
>
> Everyone else in the fight needs to know there's a missile in the air so
> they don't stumble across in front of it. Missiles tend to be
> non-discriminating killers.
>
> Also, in peacetime training, it alerts participants to a simulated launch so
> they can behave accordingly.
>
> --�
> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

in our flying we use fox 2 for ir missile, fox one for semiactive
(sparrow), fox three for active (amraam). a guns shot can be called
with "guns" or "trigger/trigger down" for a tracking shot, or "snap"
for a high angle snapshot.

[Mark]

In training, I prefer the cool/calm/impassionate call of "tracking....
tracking..... tracking..." for guns (assuming you're the one pulling the
trigger of course). esp if adversary is on same freq.... :)

Mark


"monkey" > wrote in message
om...
> "Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
et>...
> > "tw" > wrote in message
> >
> > > First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
> > > one"?
> > >
> > > Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2 as
> > > denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
> > > heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
> > > head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
> > > me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
> > > when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
> > > generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
> > > phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.
> >
> > IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique call
for
> > an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't be
> > called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you call
it
> > at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
> > action.)
> >
> > > Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap
> > > being fired at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone
> > > else's concern is it? (or if it is, there isn't much they can do
> > > about it)
> >
> > Everyone else in the fight needs to know there's a missile in the air so
> > they don't stumble across in front of it. Missiles tend to be
> > non-discriminating killers.
> >
> > Also, in peacetime training, it alerts participants to a simulated
launch so
> > they can behave accordingly.
> >
> > --�
> > Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> > "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> > special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
>
> in our flying we use fox 2 for ir missile, fox one for semiactive
> (sparrow), fox three for active (amraam). a guns shot can be called
> with "guns" or "trigger/trigger down" for a tracking shot, or "snap"
> for a high angle snapshot.

[Thomas Schoene]

monkey wrote:
> "Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
> et>...
>> "tw" > wrote in message
>>
>>> First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"->
>>> "Fox
>>> one"?
>>>
>>> Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2
>>> as
>>> denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
>>> heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
>>> head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
>>> me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
>>> when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
>>> generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
>>> phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.
>>
>> IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique
>> call for
>> an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't
>> be
>> called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you
>> call it
>> at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
>> action.)
>>
>>> Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap
>>> being fired at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone
>>> else's concern is it? (or if it is, there isn't much they can do
>>> about it)
>>
>> Everyone else in the fight needs to know there's a missile in the
>> air so
>> they don't stumble across in front of it. Missiles tend to be
>> non-discriminating killers.
>>
>> Also, in peacetime training, it alerts participants to a simulated
>> launch so
>> they can behave accordingly.
>>
>> --�
>> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
>> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
>> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
>
> in our flying we use fox 2 for ir missile, fox one for semiactive
> (sparrow), fox three for active (amraam). a guns shot can be called
> with "guns" or "trigger/trigger down" for a tracking shot, or "snap"
> for a high angle snapshot.

Thanks for a different perspective. Out of curiouosity, where is "our
flying"? (your e-mail address doesn't indicate).

The US Navy may have had to adopt a scheme using Fox 4 because it operates
Sidewinder, Sparrow, Phoenix, and AMRAAM all at the same time. Each has
distinctly different issues to worry about. Or perhaps I've just picked up
some bad gouge somewhere. Always possible.

FWIW, I've also heard Fox 4 for ramming attacks in the continental air
defense role, but I really suspect that's an urban legend.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Marc Reeve]

Thomas Schoene > wrote:
> "tw" > wrote in message
>
> > First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"-> "Fox
> > one"?
> >
> > Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2 as
> > denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
> > heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
> > head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
> > me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
> > when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
> > generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
> > phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.
>
> IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique call for
> an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't be
> called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you call it
> at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
> action.)
>
And here I'd always read that "fox-4" was a sarcastic code for a
mid-air. Then again, this was always in books set in the Vietnam era, so
no AMRAAMs around at the time.

-Marc
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

[monkey]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message et>...
> monkey wrote:
> > "Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message
> > et>...
> >> "tw" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> First off, why "fox"? "Fire one" -> "F- One" -> "Foxtrot One"->
> >>> "Fox
> >>> one"?
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, in "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" Ward describes Fox 2
> >>> as
> >>> denoting a missile launch from astern the target at one point and a
> >>> heat seeking missile launch at another (which could presumably be
> >>> head on with an AIM9L). From what I have read about SEA, it seems to
> >>> me that "Fox 1" was used when launching a Sparrow/SARH and "Fox 2"
> >>> when launching a 'winder/heat seeker, and "Fox 3" for guns. Is this
> >>> generally correct? What would an F 14 pilot call when launching a
> >>> phoenix? Fox 1, I presume.
> >>
> >> IIRC, Phoenix is Fox 3; AMRAAM is Fox 4. (You really need a unique
> >> call for
> >> an active radar missile, since it will behave differently and can't
> >> be
> >> called off at a certain point). Guns is "guns, guns, guns" (if you
> >> call it
> >> at all; I get the impresion it tends to be omitted in the heat of the
> >> action.)
> >>
> >>> Finally, why make the call at all? It seems redundant - the chap
> >>> being fired at will know soon enough, and it isn't really anyone
> >>> else's concern is it? (or if it is, there isn't much they can do
> >>> about it)
> >>
> >> Everyone else in the fight needs to know there's a missile in the
> >> air so
> >> they don't stumble across in front of it. Missiles tend to be
> >> non-discriminating killers.
> >>
> >> Also, in peacetime training, it alerts participants to a simulated
> >> launch so
> >> they can behave accordingly.
> >>
> >> --�
> >> Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
> >> "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
> >> special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
> >
> > in our flying we use fox 2 for ir missile, fox one for semiactive
> > (sparrow), fox three for active (amraam). a guns shot can be called
> > with "guns" or "trigger/trigger down" for a tracking shot, or "snap"
> > for a high angle snapshot.
>
> Thanks for a different perspective. Out of curiouosity, where is "our
> flying"? (your e-mail address doesn't indicate).
>
> The US Navy may have had to adopt a scheme using Fox 4 because it operates
> Sidewinder, Sparrow, Phoenix, and AMRAAM all at the same time. Each has
> distinctly different issues to worry about. Or perhaps I've just picked up
> some bad gouge somewhere. Always possible.
>
> FWIW, I've also heard Fox 4 for ramming attacks in the continental air
> defense role, but I really suspect that's an urban legend.


sorry, canada, cf-18's. guys here will actually use the "tracking"
call for guns as well.