Little friend takes big brother home.

[ArtKramr]

The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many memories. We
were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We were
in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was a
single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut down
and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And above and
to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the wounded
B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one would
hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no gunners
in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead or
wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17 home
alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about that
B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them. I've
thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60 years
and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that first
sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never will
forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Autocollimator]

>ubject: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: (ArtKramr)
>Date: 10/29/03 11:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many memories.
>We
>were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We were
>
>in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
>distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was a
>single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut down
>and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And above
>and
>to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the wounded
>B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one would
>hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>gunners
>in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead or
>wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17 home
>alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about that
>B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them.
>I've
>thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60
>years
>and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that first
>sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never will
>forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>
>
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
>


Great story. Thanks for posting it. I envy you your combat experience..Keep the
war stories coming.

[Brian Colwell]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many
memories. We
> were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We
were
> in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
> distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was
a
> single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut
down
> and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And
above and
> to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the
wounded
> B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one
would
> hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
gunners
> in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead
or
> wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17
home
> alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about
that
> B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them.
I've
> thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60
years
> and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that
first
> sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never
will
> forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
Thanks Art, For sharing that experience with us, I can appreciate the impact
it must have on you.

Regards, BMC

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: "Brian Colwell"
>Date: 10/29/03 6:54 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <L3%nb.219240$pl3.93544@pd7tw3no>
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many
>memories. We
>> were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We
>were
>> in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
>> distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was
>a
>> single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut
>down
>> and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And
>above and
>> to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the
>wounded
>> B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one
>would
>> hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>gunners
>> in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead
>or
>> wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17
>home
>> alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about
>that
>> B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them.
>I've
>> thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60
>years
>> and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that
>first
>> sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never
>will
>> forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>>
>>
>> Arthur Kramer
>> 344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>Thanks Art, For sharing that experience with us, I can appreciate the impact
>it must have on you.
>
>Regards, BMC
>
>


Right to this day Brian I still wonder what happened to those guys in that
limping B-17. I will never really know but I always like to think they made it.
and over the years I imagined that I was in a bar and met a guy about my age.
We got to talking about the war and it turned out he was one of the guys in
that B-17. Imagination and fond wishes go together. (sigh)

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: (Autocollimator)
>Date: 10/29/03 6:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>ubject: Little friend takes big brother home.
>>From: (ArtKramr)
>>Date: 10/29/03 11:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many memories.
>>We
>>were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We
>were
>>
>>in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
>>distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was a
>>single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut down
>>and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And above
>>and
>>to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the wounded
>>B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one would
>>hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>>gunners
>>in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead or
>>wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17
>home
>>alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about that
>>B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them.
>>I've
>>thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60
>>years
>>and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that
>first
>>sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never will
>>forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>>
>>
>>Arthur Kramer
>>344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>>
>
>
>Great story. Thanks for posting it. I envy you your combat experience..Keep
>the
> war stories coming.
>
>

Thanks. I'll keep 'em coming.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[George R. Gonzalez]

>I guess I'll never know, but that
> >first
> >> sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never
> >will
> >> forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
> >>
> >>
> >> Arthur Kramer
> >> 344th BG 494th BS
> >> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> >> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> >> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Thanks Art. A while back I got to talk to one of the Tuskgee Airmen that
was speaking to our church group. He flew P-51's in that top-cover role.
Afterwards he had to sit down for several minutes to regain his composure.
So you're not the only one choked up by those experiences.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: "George R. Gonzalez"
>Date: 10/30/03 5:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <7I8ob.47604$9E1.209410@attbi_s52>
>
>>I guess I'll never know, but that
>> >first
>> >> sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never
>> >will
>> >> forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Arthur Kramer
>> >> 344th BG 494th BS
>> >> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>> >> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>> >> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
>Thanks Art. A while back I got to talk to one of the Tuskgee Airmen that
>was speaking to our church group. He flew P-51's in that top-cover role.
>Afterwards he had to sit down for several minutes to regain his composure.
>So you're not the only one choked up by those experiences.
>


I guess that it happened many times, but I saw it only once. It is a sight that
never can be forgotten.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Autocollimator]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: (ArtKramr)
>Date: 10/30/03 6:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>>From: "George R. Gonzalez"
>>Date: 10/30/03 5:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <7I8ob.47604$9E1.209410@attbi_s52>
>>
>>>I guess I'll never know, but that
>>> >first
>>> >> sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never
>>> >will
>>> >> forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Arthur Kramer
>>> >> 344th BG 494th BS
>>> >> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>> >> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>> >> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>>Thanks Art. A while back I got to talk to one of the Tuskgee Airmen that
>>was speaking to our church group. He flew P-51's in that top-cover role.
>>Afterwards he had to sit down for several minutes to regain his composure.
>>So you're not the only one choked up by those experiences.
>>
>
>
>I guess that it happened many times, but I saw it only once. It is a sight
>that
>never can be forgotten.
>
>Arthur Kramer

Your vivid memory is our gain. Thanks again.

[Jukka O. Kauppinen]

> hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no gunners

A very touching story. Thanks, Art.

jok

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: "Jukka O. Kauppinen"
>Date: 10/31/03 2:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>> hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>gunners
>
>A very touching story. Thanks, Art.
>
>jok
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: "Jukka O. Kauppinen"
>Date: 10/31/03 2:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>> hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>gunners
>
>A very touching story. Thanks, Art.
>
>jok
>

Moments that can never be forgotten. (sigh)



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dana Miller]

In article >,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

>The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many memories. We
>were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We were
>in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
>distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was a
>single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut down
>and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And above and
>to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the wounded
>B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one would
>hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no gunners
>in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead or
>wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17 home
>alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about that
>B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them. I've
>thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60 years
>and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that first
>sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never will
>forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>
>
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

Art,

I've heard or read that single aircraft were at an extreme disadvantage
over Germany. You're without the supporting fire from your formation
and multiple attackers could concentrate on just a single bomber. In
just that situation, having that P-51 along would make a huge diference
in both your percieved and actual changes of returning home. I hope
both AC made it home without further incident.

--
Dana Miller

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: Dana Miller
>Date: 10/31/03 9:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >,
> (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>>The recent thread on "most beautiful things" has brought back many memories.
>We
>>were flying a maximum effort (56 Marauders) heading East into Germany We
>were
>>in the number two slot in the high flight flying deputy lead. Way in the
>>distance I saw a tiny spot coming toward us As it came closer I saw it was a
>>single B-17. When it came even closer I saw that it had one engine shut down
>>and the prop feathered. Another engine smoking but operational. And above
>and
>>to one side of the B-17 was a lone P-51 flying top cover taking the wounded
>>B-17 home. I got a bit choked up and wanted to applaud but knew no one would
>>hear me. As the B-17 passed us I examined it as best I could. I saw no
>gunners
>>in the waist window or anywhere else. Had they bailed out? Were they dead or
>>wounded? Had the pilot bailed the whole crew out and was taking the B-17
>home
>>alone? When we got back to base I went to the A-2 guys and asked about that
>>B-17. But as usual A-2 officers only ask questions they never answer them.
>I've
>>thought of that B-17 and that P-51 every now and again over rhe past 60
>years
>>and wonder if they ever made it home. I guess I'll never know, but that
>first
>>sight if the lone B-17 and that lone P-51 covering is a sight I never will
>>forget. I still get choked up thinking about it.
>>
>>
>>Arthur Kramer
>>344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>
>Art,
>
>I've heard or read that single aircraft were at an extreme disadvantage
>over Germany. You're without the supporting fire from your formation
>and multiple attackers could concentrate on just a single bomber. In
>just that situation, having that P-51 along would make a huge diference
>in both your percieved and actual changes of returning home. I hope
>both AC made it home without further incident.
>
>--
>Dana Miller
..

Exactly right. That B-17 was a sitting duck trying to go home alone like that.
To see that a single P-51 broke away and fell in with the B-17 as top cover to
escort him home was an act of bravery and human coincern for a brother
fllier that gets me choked up every timeIthink of it.Now included I have
gotten quite a bit of e-mail as well as comments on this NG about that story,
Even got some posts from Germany and one from Scotland and another from
Australia. It is a story that every military flier with battle experience can
personally relate to. And it seems to touch just about everyone who reads it
..My only regret is that my attempts to locate the P-51 pilot through A-2 had
no success. I would like to have bought him a drink A big one. Thanks for your
comments. I appreciate it.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Vicente Vazquez]

Mr. Kramer,

I had a chance to talk to some of our Air Force's veterans who flew
P-47's in Italy (1st Fighter Squadron - Brazilian Air Force -
Tarquinia and later Pisa) and one of them told me that out of his 90+
missions (99% ground attack missions), the one that really "shocked"
him was one where he took part on a bomber escort. The mission took
place on Jan 28th 1945, and the target of the 30 USAAF B-25's teh
Brazilians escorted was a heavily defended "railway complex" at the
Brenner Pass. There was no enemy fighters activity so the Brazilian
pilots could just observe the B-25's going into the bomb run and
keeping that steady course as the bombs were released and flak started
to pop around them. Despite his combat experince (70 + missions at the
time), he said he was horrified to see those brave men going through
the flak without any evasive action, flying as if nothing was
happening around them and focusing only on their targets. Soon
parachutes appeared in the skies and bombers began to go down...

Our pilots escorted 30 B-25's to the target, but 6 never made it back
home. According to this veteran, he didn't fire a single shot that
day, but having a chance of escorting such brave men is a mission he
is most proud of.

Greetings,

Vicente Vazquez
São Paulo - Brazil

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Little friend takes big brother home.
>From: (Vicente Vazquez)
>Date: 11/1/03 5:37 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Mr. Kramer,
>
>I had a chance to talk to some of our Air Force's veterans who flew
>P-47's in Italy (1st Fighter Squadron - Brazilian Air Force -
>Tarquinia and later Pisa) and one of them told me that out of his 90+
>missions (99% ground attack missions), the one that really "shocked"
>him was one where he took part on a bomber escort. The mission took
>place on Jan 28th 1945, and the target of the 30 USAAF B-25's teh
>Brazilians escorted was a heavily defended "railway complex" at the
>Brenner Pass. There was no enemy fighters activity so the Brazilian
>pilots could just observe the B-25's going into the bomb run and
>keeping that steady course as the bombs were released and flak started
>to pop around them. Despite his combat experince (70 + missions at the
>time), he said he was horrified to see those brave men going through
>the flak without any evasive action, flying as if nothing was
>happening around them and focusing only on their targets. Soon
>parachutes appeared in the skies and bombers began to go down...
>
>Our pilots escorted 30 B-25's to the target, but 6 never made it back
>home. According to this veteran, he didn't fire a single shot that
>day, but having a chance of escorting such brave men is a mission he
>is most proud of.
>
>Greetings,
>
>Vicente Vazquez
>São Paulo - Brazil

After a few missions you realise that there is nothing you can do against flak
on the bomb run. Fly straight in, bomb bay doors open rght to bombs away. Don't
worry about it. Just do it. That is what we were there for.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer