Re: USA and the Nuremberg trial

[George Z. Bush]

Johannes Madel wrote:

(Snip)

> turkey ( a very undemocratic country, but it was an important border to
> communism)

I beg your pardon! Turkey is and has been a republican parliamentary democracy
since Ataturk founded it in 1923. It offers its citizens universal suffrage at
age 18, and I believe it recently had (and perhaps still has) a female prime
minister.

George Z.

[Keith Willshaw]

"George Z. Bush" > wrote in message
...
> Johannes Madel wrote:
>
> (Snip)
>
> > turkey ( a very undemocratic country, but it was an important border
to
> > communism)
>
> I beg your pardon! Turkey is and has been a republican parliamentary
democracy
> since Ataturk founded it in 1923. It offers its citizens universal
suffrage at
> age 18, and I believe it recently had (and perhaps still has) a female
prime
> minister.
>
> George Z.
>
>

Well yes but its also had its periods of military dictatorship, the
last being in 1980 IRC with a civilian government being
restored in 1983.

Keith

[Ron]

>
>During the previous Gulf War (an unnecessary conflict, since Saddam was
>still calling President Bush to negotiate his withdrawal from Kuwait when
>the missiles arrived over Baghdad)

Somehow I doubt he was calling Bush..But anyways, Saddam was told plenty of
times to leave, and he had enough opportunities. He could have just started
withdrawing if he was serious. He did not have to negotiate for permission to
start doing do. He should not have been there in the first place.

>This torrential bomb and missile attack (exceeding WWII tonnage)

Proof?

>As Ramsey Clark reported, "The accuracy of US missiles and bombs can be
>measured by the fact that during the systematic assault on a defenseless
>society in January and February, 1991, every type of civilian facility was
>destroyed-homes, apartment projects, markets and shops, schools, hospitals,
>mosques, churches and synagogues.

But still does not claim those were targeted, just that were destroyed or
damaged.

Yes, all those Iraqi synagogues. Yes a long time ago, there were many Iraqi
jews.

Ramsey Clark is very much on the fringe of politics and has aligned himself
with world marxist/leninist/stalinist movements like workers world party and
ANSWER. Not using that as the old "Communist" insult, just stating where is is
coming from. He is now out there with the kook elements, who are just against
any war, that does not result in someone like Stalin or Castro or Kim Jong Il
coming to power.








Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

[B2431]

>From: "Johannes Madel"
>Date: 11/9/2003 12:21 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>ok, you are right, i forgot WW1 :-)
>
>but the usage of gas in WW1 does not excuse the usage of the 2 A-Bombs.
>
>Jo

OK, let's see why the atomic bombs were used: to keep the Soviets out of Japan,
to keep the war from dragging on, to minimize casualties and because the world
was just plain tired of war.

Had the invasions of the home islands gone on on as scheduled the war would
have lasted the better part of another half year. I used the plural of invasion
because there were to be a series of them starting in November 1945. Most
people take into account the casualties incurred during the actual invasions
but not the casualties incurred by an ongoing war. The war was simply not going
to be put on hold while awaiting the invasions. How many more human beings
would have died had the bombs not been used not counting those killed during
the invasions? I bet the number would far excede the number killed by the atom
bombs.

Granted the U.S. and U.K. were aware the Japanese were sending out peace
feelers to the Soviets in attempt to surrender, but let's see what would have
happened if the Soviets were to agree to intercede in exchange for territories
they lost to the Japanese in an earlier war. Let's assume the various stages of
negotions and implementation added up to 3 months how many people would have
died if fighting continued let alone the slaughter of Allied POWs? OK, let's
assume hostilities would have been suspended once it became clear the
negotations were sincere. If this happened the slaughter of POWs would have
begun immediately and been unhindered by fighting. In either case there would
also have been an elimination of civilian prisoners and slave labourers as
well.

Would the Japanese not have expanded their use of biological warfare already
going on in China? To this day there are periodic outbreaks of plague tracible
to the use of that "weapon of mass destrution" by the Japanese during WW2.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Seraphim]

(Ron) wrote in news:20031109141940.00885.00000273@mb-
m03.aol.com:

>>[Re the gulf war]
>>This torrential bomb and missile attack (exceeding WWII tonnage)
>
> Proof?

You're not going to get proof.

The Gulf War had about 60 thousand tons dropped.
World War II had about 2 million tons dropped.

Thats roughly a 1:33 ratio.

[Matt Wiser]

(Ron) wrote:
>>
>>During the previous Gulf War (an unnecessary
>conflict, since Saddam was
>>still calling President Bush to negotiate his
>withdrawal from Kuwait when
>>the missiles arrived over Baghdad)
>
>Somehow I doubt he was calling Bush..But anyways,
>Saddam was told plenty of
>times to leave, and he had enough opportunities.
> He could have just started
>withdrawing if he was serious. He did not have
>to negotiate for permission to
>start doing do. He should not have been there
>in the first place.
>
>>This torrential bomb and missile attack (exceeding
>WWII tonnage)
>
>Proof?
>
>>As Ramsey Clark reported, "The accuracy of
>US missiles and bombs can be
>>measured by the fact that during the systematic
>assault on a defenseless
>>society in January and February, 1991, every
>type of civilian facility was
>>destroyed-homes, apartment projects, markets
>and shops, schools, hospitals,
>>mosques, churches and synagogues.
>
>But still does not claim those were targeted,
>just that were destroyed or
>damaged.
>
>Yes, all those Iraqi synagogues. Yes a long
>time ago, there were many Iraqi
>jews.
>
>Ramsey Clark is very much on the fringe of politics
>and has aligned himself
>with world marxist/leninist/stalinist movements
>like workers world party and
>ANSWER. Not using that as the old "Communist"
>insult, just stating where is is
>coming from. He is now out there with the kook
>elements, who are just against
>any war, that does not result in someone like
>Stalin or Castro or Kim Jong Il
>coming to power.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ron
>Pilot/Wildland Firefighter
>
You've got that right, Ron. LA Times and Washington Post exposed Clark's
"International Action Center" and "ANSWER" as fronts for the Workers World
Party. These folks adore Castro and Kim-Jong Il, supported the Soviet Invasions
of Hungary in '56, Czechoslovakia in '68, and Afghanistan in '79. They also
supported the PRC's massacre in Tinanmen Square back in '89, and lamented
the fall of the Curtain and the collapse of the USSR. Oh, and guess who they
fell back to support in the '90s? Milosovec (Butcher of the Balkans), Saddam
(Butcher of Baghdad), The Taliban/Al-Queda (Butchers of Afghanistan/9-11),
and the more extreme Palestinian groups-Hamas, PIJ, etc. Not to mention a
cop-killer (that Mumia scumbag on Death Row in PA). Clark even sympathized
with the Iranians' POV in the Hostage Crisis. If I was Attorney General,
I'd have the whole lot run in on Treason, aid and comfort to the enemy, embargo-busting
(Iraq, Serbia, Cuba), and related offenses.

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