Massive Israeli Flyover, Possible Trouble Nov 21

[robert arndt]

from Debka:

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677

Rob

[tim gueguen]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
> from Debka:
>
> http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677
>
Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in credibility in the
past.

tim gueguen 101867

[Greg Hennessy]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:46 GMT, "tim gueguen" >
wrote:

>
>"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
>> from Debka:
>>
>> http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677
>>
>Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in credibility in the
>past.
>

Consider the source. Herr Arndt is lacking in credibility period.


greg

--
$ReplyAddress =~ s#\@.*$##; # Delete everything after the '@'
The Following is a true story.....
Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

[robert arndt]

Greg Hennessy > wrote in message >...
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:46 GMT, "tim gueguen" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> from Debka:
> >>
> >> http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677
> >>
> >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in credibility in the
> >past.

So has the CIA and MI5...
> >
>
> Consider the source. Herr Arndt is lacking in credibility period.

And your impeccable credentials???

Rob
>
>
> greg

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(robert arndt) wrote:

> Greg Hennessy > wrote in message
> >...

> > >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in
> > >credibility in the past.
>
> So has the CIA and MI5...

So where do we find the CIA and MI5 Web pages with current classified
intel on them for public use - as a comparison?

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[robert arndt]

Chad Irby > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (robert arndt) wrote:
>
> > Greg Hennessy > wrote in message
> > >...
>
> > > >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in
> > > >credibility in the past.
> >
> > So has the CIA and MI5...
>
> So where do we find the CIA and MI5 Web pages with current classified
> intel on them for public use - as a comparison?

The Israeli flyover isn't classified; in fact, Lebanon went to the UN
to complain about escalation with Israel over it yesterday. Second,
the Nov 21st statement reflects legitimate concerns of the Israeli,
US, and British intelligence services.
The Debka article is just as valid as any other news source on the
flyover a few days ago, so who cares that I used them? What do you
want, the Washington Post or Guardian?

Rob

[tim gueguen]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
> Greg Hennessy > wrote in message
>...
> > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:46 GMT, "tim gueguen"
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"robert arndt" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >> from Debka:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677
> > >>
> > >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in credibility
in the
> > >past.
>
> So has the CIA and MI5...

So what? Whatever their assessements are they aren't being posted here.
Debka's was, and this the same organisation that claimed during the Afghan
War that the Chinese were going to help Osama evade the Americans. The same
Chinese who suffer from their own separatist problems in the Muslim areas of
China, including Islamists favourable to bin Laden. Other Debka material
I've seen has been equally wonky. I'll certainly criticise any intelligence
agency material that might be posted if I find it questionable.

tim gueguen 101867

[The Enlightenment]

Chad Irby > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (robert arndt) wrote:
>
> > Greg Hennessy > wrote in message
> > >...
>
> > > >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in
> > > >credibility in the past.
> >
> > So has the CIA and MI5...
>
> So where do we find the CIA and MI5 Web pages with current classified
> intel on them for public use - as a comparison?

The WMD, Uranium purchase and high speed centrifuge alloy stories were
all not supported by senior intelligence analysts within the CIA and
NSA. The philozionist neocon cabal however over ruled them and wipped
up war fever.

The human plastics shredder will probably get debunked the same way
Kuwaiti baby incubator theft was seen to be a hoax.

There were good reasons for 'regime change' like the impossibility of
unending sanctions and no fly zones but rather than go with that more
difficult but infinetly more hinest argument honestly they lied.
**************

Hold The Neocons Accountable
By Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/accountable.htm

Will neoconservatives be held responsible for orchestrating a war in
order to pursue their Middle Eastern agenda? Will they get away with
inflicting death and injury on thousands of Iraqis and Americans?

Powerful people have good reasons to hold the neocons accountable.
Secretary of State Colin Powell is one. Deceived into lying to the
United Nations when he presented the case for a preemptive US attack
on Iraq, Secretary Powell was ruthlessly used by neocon administration
officials.

Colin Powell put his reputation on the line when he gave the UN
assurances that “every statement I make today is backed up by
sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we’re
giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid
intelligence.”

There was not a word of truth or intelligence in what Powell told the
UN. Iraq most certainly was NOT developing chemical, biological and
nuclear weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was NOT involved with al
Qaida and the September 11 attacks on the US. Saddam Hussein had NO
weapons of mass destruction to give to terrorists.

President Bush also has good reason to hold the neocons responsible.
Deceived and trapped in a war of attrition that can have no successful
outcome, Bush’s credibility is burdened with speeches even more
egregious than Powell’s UN speech.

Fed disinformation, Bush dutifully regurgitated neocon fabrications
that Iraq possessed 500 tons of chemical weapons, 25,000 liters of
anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, 30,000 prohibited warheads,
and uranium from Niger. America had to attack Iraq, Bush said, before
these fearsome weapons could be used against us.

Vice President Cheney’s fear mongering was more extreme than
Bush’s. Cheney claimed that Iraq had “reconstituted
nuclear weapons.” References to “mushroom clouds”
over American cities made ears deaf to voices of reason.

Congress has an incentive to hold the neocons accountable. Fear
created by neocon lies caused Congress to emasculate itself, to give
up its war powers and to agree to massive sums of money being wasted
on a pointless war.

The US media has good cause to hold the neocons accountable. Neocons
manipulated the media and turned reporters, news networks and
publications into war propagandists. Uncritical acceptance of neocon
propaganda has made laughingstocks out of “conservative”
media, such as Fox News, the Weekly Standard, National Review and the
Wall Street Journal editorial page.

For example, the current issue (Nov. 24) of the Weekly Standard
confidently reports that a “top secret U.S. government
memorandum” leaked to the magazine proves beyond any doubt that
“Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein had an operational
relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in
explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for
terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and
Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohammed
Atta.” [Case Closed, November 24, 2003, by Stephen F. Hayes]

These improbable revelations raised no suspicions at the Weekly
Standard or Fox News, which fed the story to the public without
checking it out.

The US Department of Defense repudiated the story in a November 15,
2003 press release: “News reports that the Defense Department
recently confirmed new information with respect to contacts between al
Qaida and Iraq in a letter [from Undersecretary Douglas Feith] to the
Senate Intelligence Committee are inaccurate.”

All the Weekly Standard has is a “classified annex”
containing “raw reports” or unsupported claims such as
those made by self-serving Iraqi exiles. The Defense Department news
release says that “the classified annex was not an analysis of
the substantive issue of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaida,
and it drew no conclusions.”

But the propagandists at the Weekly Standard were not deterred by
facts.

Neoconservatives have made as big a fool of the American public as
they have of President Bush.

The US has been tricked into waging a war that already has cost us
$200 billion and the sympathy of the world, a war that disrupts the
lives of tens of thousands of reserve and national guard families,
kills and maims our troops and Iraqi civilians, destroys our alliances
and foreign policy, and recruits terrorists for bin Laden.

We went to war for false reasons.

The costs are enormous.

Will the perpetrators be held accountable?

***********************************

When Perle was working for Senator Scoop Jackson, he was investigated
by the Justice Department and found to have violated US policies
relating to unlawful transmission of sensitive classified US
information to Israel.

"An FBI summary of a 1970 wiretap recorded Perle discussing classified
information with someone at the Israeli embassy," writes Paul Findley
(They Dare To Speak Out, Chicago, Ill, Lawrence Hill Books 1989)."He
came under fire in 1983 when newspapers reported he received
substantial payments to represent the interests of an Israeli weapons
company. Perle denied conflict of interest, insisting that, although
he
received payment for these services after he had assumed his position
in the Defense Department, he was between government jobs when he
worked for the Israeli firm."

In other words, Richard Perle is an Israeli spy.

Perle should be expatriated immediately -- or made to share a cell
with
Jonathan Pollard, the spy who spent 18 months collecting and selling
classified American intelligence to Israel from his position in U.S.
Naval Intelligence.

[Tarver Engineering]

"tim gueguen" > wrote in message
news:4dTub.436788$pl3.391485@pd7tw3no...
>
> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Greg Hennessy > wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:50:46 GMT, "tim gueguen"
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"robert arndt" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >> from Debka:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=677
> > > >>
> > > >Consider the source. Debka have proven rather lacking in credibility
> in the
> > > >past.
> >
> > So has the CIA and MI5...
>
> So what? Whatever their assessements are they aren't being posted here.
> Debka's was, and this the same organisation that claimed during the Afghan
> War that the Chinese were going to help Osama evade the Americans. The
same
> Chinese who suffer from their own separatist problems in the Muslim areas
of
> China, including Islamists favourable to bin Laden. Other Debka material
> I've seen has been equally wonky. I'll certainly criticise any
intelligence
> agency material that might be posted if I find it questionable.

The same China that plans joint operations with India.