Student invents new math process

[Otis Willie]

Student invents new math process

(EXCERPT) by Mike Wallace Aeronautical Systems Center Public Affairs

11/18/2003 - WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) -- Killie
Rick found a new solution to subtraction problems involving whole
numbers and fractions. She used the concept of negative numbers in a
way that has never been done before, as far as her seventh-grade
teacher has been able to ascertain.

The 12-year-old girl is the daughter of Terri Rick, a senior
accountin...

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---------------------------
Otis Willie
Associate Librarian
The American War Library
http://www.americanwarlibrary.com

[Marcin]

Whats so special about this. Are the expectations in US schools so low? Has
a student in one of many thousnads of high schools finally found a way to do
simple math,. gosh soon they might be doing linear equtions in year 8....

Marcin

[Seraphim]

Otis Willie > wrote in
:

> Student invents new math process

I have ask, whats the other way of doing it?

[Scott Ferrin]

On 20 Nov 2003 10:19:02 GMT, Seraphim > wrote:

>Otis Willie > wrote in
:
>
>> Student invents new math process
>
>I have ask, whats the other way of doing it?



Key phrase : "as far as her seventh-grade
teacher has been able to ascertain."

[tscottme]

Scott Ferrin > wrote in message
...
>
> Key phrase : "as far as her seventh-grade
> teacher has been able to ascertain."

I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
any field other than physical education.

--

Scott
--------
Monitor the latest efforts of "peaceful Muslims" at
http://www.jihadwatch.org/

[Mark Schaeffer]

Ok, so she did the fraction subtraction, then borrowed from the ones
place, rather than the other way around.

So bleeping whut?

[Leslie Swartz]

Roger that-

I just read the article in the local base paper.

Her "math teacher" [sic] was amazed because he said you can subrtract the
fractions in only 5 steps, instead of 7 like he has been teaching.

What about doing it in three steps like they used to teach?!?!?!?!?!?!

Convert to LCD, subtract, convert back?

Apparently with the "new math" you have to break each term up into common
units, subtract each one separately, convert back, then add together,
combine, etc. . . .

Steve Swartz



"Mark Schaeffer" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, so she did the fraction subtraction, then borrowed from the ones
> place, rather than the other way around.
>
> So bleeping whut?
>

[Seraphim]

"tscottme" > wrote in
:

> Scott Ferrin > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Key phrase : "as far as her seventh-grade
>> teacher has been able to ascertain."
>
> I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT
> scores of any field other than physical education.

Yeah, but being able to graduate college should mean you have a firm
understanding of things like subtraction.

[Paul F Austin]

"Seraphim" > wrote in message
.. .
> "tscottme" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Scott Ferrin > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Key phrase : "as far as her seventh-grade
> >> teacher has been able to ascertain."
> >
> > I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT
> > scores of any field other than physical education.
>
> Yeah, but being able to graduate college should mean you have a firm
> understanding of things like subtraction.

To be fair to teachers, when I was in the 8th grade (1962), a science
teacher had no idea why I couldn't spin a magnet up in a vacuum, inside a
coil and extract unlimited energy from it.

That said, the bar for education majors is set very, very low and still they
can't clear it. NY City announced that they were firing 3000 teachers who
couldn't pass the (10th grade level) competency test after as many as 12
tries. One flunky protested that the test covered things that were
inapplicable to what she did in a classroom.

[vincent p. norris]

>I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>any field other than physical education.

That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
by the dimmest.

vince norris

[James Hart]

vincent p. norris wrote:
>> I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT
>> scores of any field other than physical education.
>
> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
> by the dimmest.

One of my teachers once said "you're not here to learn, you're here to be
taught". Looks like that sentiment still holds.
The school's only A-level chemistry teacher went off sick the second year of
my studies, the best the school could come up with was a teacher who was
learning the syllabus as he was teaching it. Most of the time he was only
one lesson ahead of us, if we picked something up quicker than planned then
he couldn't do anymore 'til he'd learnt it for the next session. A truely
stupid plan but we got through the year somehow.

--
James...
http://www.jameshart.co.uk/

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:30:04 -0500, vincent p. norris >
wrote:

> >I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
> >any field other than physical education.
>
> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
> by the dimmest.

We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.

Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
years and engineering takes the standard four years.

In my own case, my father was a high-school teacher and my parents
really did their best to discourage me from going into teaching.
Having watched my father, I was never tempted at all. Teaching a
night course at the local junior college for three semesters just
reaffirmed the rightness of my decision.

If you want, you can blame it all on the women's movement, since it
was that that opened other occupations to women. No longer forced to
be teachers or nurses, we chose higher-paying, more prestigious
professions. Let's face it, "I'm a third-grade teacher" doesn't get
nearly the attention "I'm a research engineer at NASA" does.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Scott Ferrin]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:30:04 -0500, vincent p. norris >
wrote:

>>I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>>any field other than physical education.
>
>That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
>about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
>by the dimmest.
>
>vince norris


Once in a while you get exceptions. Back in the day. . .well I guess
it wasn't THAT long ago (81 or thereabouts. . .God) I had a math
teacher that was a graduate of Brown University. In what I don't
recall but I think he just did the teaching because he *liked* it not
because he needed the money. He was a big guy and old school (even
back then) and you did NOT screw around in class like they do these
day. Well not if you valued your health :-)

[George Shirley]

vincent p. norris wrote:

>>I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>>any field other than physical education.
>
>
> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
> by the dimmest.
>
> vince norris

Unfortunately most of the brightest won't work for what our schools and
we are willing to pay.

Fortunately there are some top notch teachers who are working for
peanuts because they believe in what they do. My wife and daughter are
among them, both graduated summa cum laude from university and both
have gone on to advanced degrees to become better teachers. Lucky for my
wife I don't teach and have always made about ten times what teachers
do. Daughter is a single mom and has sacrificed a lot for what she
believes in. IMHO we need more people like my two ladies.

George

[[email protected]]

George Shirley > wrote:

>
>Fortunately there are some top notch teachers who are working for
>peanuts because they believe in what they do. My wife and daughter are
>among them, both graduated summa cum laude from university and both
>have gone on to advanced degrees to become better teachers. Lucky for my
>wife I don't teach and have always made about ten times what teachers
>do. Daughter is a single mom and has sacrificed a lot for what she
>believes in. IMHO we need more people like my two ladies.
>
>George

I know where you're coming from, my daughter is also a single mom
and teaches ECE (Early Childhood Education) in Canada. She also
has given up a lot to be able to continue, she likens it to 'drug
dependency', says she's hooked on it, loves it.
--

-Gord.

[user]

wow

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:40:58 -0800, Mary Shafer >
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:30:04 -0500, vincent p. norris >
>wrote:
>
>> >I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>> >any field other than physical education.
>>
>> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
>> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
>> by the dimmest.
>
>We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.
>
>Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
>miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
>much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
>teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
>years and engineering takes the standard four years.
>
>In my own case, my father was a high-school teacher and my parents
>really did their best to discourage me from going into teaching.
>Having watched my father, I was never tempted at all. Teaching a
>night course at the local junior college for three semesters just
>reaffirmed the rightness of my decision.
>
>If you want, you can blame it all on the women's movement, since it
>was that that opened other occupations to women. No longer forced to
>be teachers or nurses, we chose higher-paying, more prestigious
>professions. Let's face it, "I'm a third-grade teacher" doesn't get
>nearly the attention "I'm a research engineer at NASA" does.
>
>Mary

[user]

hey, WTF does this have to do with the original post which was way
off topic anyway???? Please post and respond to only ontopic stuff??
Mary, you seem pretty bright,,,why don't you post a topic instead of
always trying to correct people and show us how smart you are???
Seriously???
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:40:58 -0800, Mary Shafer >
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:30:04 -0500, vincent p. norris >
>wrote:
>
>> >I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>> >any field other than physical education.
>>
>> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
>> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
>> by the dimmest.
>
>We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.
>
>Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
>miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
>much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
>teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
>years and engineering takes the standard four years.
>
>In my own case, my father was a high-school teacher and my parents
>really did their best to discourage me from going into teaching.
>Having watched my father, I was never tempted at all. Teaching a
>night course at the local junior college for three semesters just
>reaffirmed the rightness of my decision.
>
>If you want, you can blame it all on the women's movement, since it
>was that that opened other occupations to women. No longer forced to
>be teachers or nurses, we chose higher-paying, more prestigious
>professions. Let's face it, "I'm a third-grade teacher" doesn't get
>nearly the attention "I'm a research engineer at NASA" does.
>
>Mary

[user]

I blame it not on the "womens movement" which is the most ridiculous
thing I've ever heard,,(you had it right at first when you proposed
money as the real reason),,,I'll be even more ridiculous and blame it
on the Nazi's!!!!


On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:40:58 -0800, Mary Shafer >
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 18:30:04 -0500, vincent p. norris >
>wrote:
>
>> >I believe education majors in universities have the lowest SAT scores of
>> >any field other than physical education.
>>
>> That seems to be true, and it is one of the most rgrettable things
>> about our society. Our kids should be taught by the brightest, not
>> by the dimmest.
>
>We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.
>
>Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
>miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
>much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
>teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
>years and engineering takes the standard four years.
>
>In my own case, my father was a high-school teacher and my parents
>really did their best to discourage me from going into teaching.
>Having watched my father, I was never tempted at all. Teaching a
>night course at the local junior college for three semesters just
>reaffirmed the rightness of my decision.
>
>If you want, you can blame it all on the women's movement, since it
>was that that opened other occupations to women. No longer forced to
>be teachers or nurses, we chose higher-paying, more prestigious
>professions. Let's face it, "I'm a third-grade teacher" doesn't get
>nearly the attention "I'm a research engineer at NASA" does.
>
>Mary

[George Shirley]

wrote:

> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>
>>Fortunately there are some top notch teachers who are working for
>>peanuts because they believe in what they do. My wife and daughter are
>>among them, both graduated summa cum laude from university and both
>>have gone on to advanced degrees to become better teachers. Lucky for my
>>wife I don't teach and have always made about ten times what teachers
>>do. Daughter is a single mom and has sacrificed a lot for what she
>>believes in. IMHO we need more people like my two ladies.
>>
>>George
>
>
> I know where you're coming from, my daughter is also a single mom
> and teaches ECE (Early Childhood Education) in Canada. She also
> has given up a lot to be able to continue, she likens it to 'drug
> dependency', says she's hooked on it, loves it.
> --
>
> -Gord.

I'm just glad someone is willing to do it and do it right. I see too
many kids coming out of high school here in Louisiana who not only can't
read and write they have no "life" skills at all. I end up paying for
they and their children to live on welfare.

I would be in jail for murder if I had to teach junior high or high
school for a living. First little SOB that cursed me or showed
disrespect would learn what an old NCO can do with his boots. Sheesh,
and to think I've got five grandkids in that bunch.

Yeah, I have lots of respect for dedicated teachers and think they
should put the others up against the wall.

George

[[email protected]]

George Shirley > wrote:

>I'm just glad someone is willing to do it and do it right. I see too
>many kids coming out of high school here in Louisiana who not only can't
>read and write they have no "life" skills at all. I end up paying for
>they and their children to live on welfare.
>
>I would be in jail for murder if I had to teach junior high or high
>school for a living. First little SOB that cursed me or showed
>disrespect would learn what an old NCO can do with his boots. Sheesh,
>and to think I've got five grandkids in that bunch.
>
>Yeah, I have lots of respect for dedicated teachers and think they
>should put the others up against the wall.
>
>George

I agree enthusiastically...I've got 8 grandkids and very short
teeth from gritting them to avoid blasting some of them
occasionally.

They're really not bad kids but kids now-a-days are raised
differently than they were back when. It really bothered me to
see my 13 year old grandson taking over the right seat in the
family car and relegating his mom to the back seat. I pointed
this out to his dad by saying that it lowered her in his
subconscious mind. He denied it weakly but I see her back where
she belongs now.

Guess I'm not entirely useless yet... :)
--

-Gord.

[Regnirps]

Mary Shafer wrote:

<< We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.

Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
years and engineering takes the standard four years. >>

It is true that teachers usually don't start very high, but in the Seattle area
we have classroom teachers making over $60K and they have summers off and
several one or two week breaks and frequent three day weekends. Not to mention
that once they figure out a system they have a rather short work day. It think
it is a pretty cushy racket with excellent retirement and benefits of all
stripes. I come from a family full of teachers and as a child I thought
everybody had summers off.

I have been occasionally induced to look at special programs to get people from
the sciences into teaching. Since I was laid off I have looked into them more
seriously and so far thay have turned out to be political scams carefully
designed to look good but be incompletable in practice, at least for someone
who is broke :-)

-- Charlie Springer

[Regnirps]

user wrote:

<< hey, WTF does this have to do with the original post which was way
off topic anyway???? Please post and respond to only ontopic stuff??
Mary, you seem pretty bright,,,why don't you post a topic instead of
always trying to correct people and show us how smart you are???
Seriously???>>

That's what I hate about rec.aviation.military. All the damn topic police!

-- Charlie Springer

[Yeff]

On 24 Nov 2003 21:56:42 GMT, Regnirps wrote:

> That's what I hate about rec.aviation.military. All the damn topic police!

Discussion of the topic police is off topic for rec.aviation.military.

-Jeff B. (here to help)
yeff at erols dot com

[George Shirley]

wrote:
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>
>>I'm just glad someone is willing to do it and do it right. I see too
>>many kids coming out of high school here in Louisiana who not only can't
>>read and write they have no "life" skills at all. I end up paying for
>>they and their children to live on welfare.
>>
>>I would be in jail for murder if I had to teach junior high or high
>>school for a living. First little SOB that cursed me or showed
>>disrespect would learn what an old NCO can do with his boots. Sheesh,
>>and to think I've got five grandkids in that bunch.
>>
>>Yeah, I have lots of respect for dedicated teachers and think they
>>should put the others up against the wall.
>>
>>George
>
>
> I agree enthusiastically...I've got 8 grandkids and very short
> teeth from gritting them to avoid blasting some of them
> occasionally.
>
> They're really not bad kids but kids now-a-days are raised
> differently than they were back when. It really bothered me to
> see my 13 year old grandson taking over the right seat in the
> family car and relegating his mom to the back seat. I pointed
> this out to his dad by saying that it lowered her in his
> subconscious mind. He denied it weakly but I see her back where
> she belongs now.
>
> Guess I'm not entirely useless yet... :)
> --
>
> -Gord.

My eldest grandson, now 23 and a dad himself, called his Mom a bitch at
my table when he was about 14. After he woke up he claimed he was going
to call Child Protective Services and tell them I hit him. Told him they
would have to wait to talk to me after I kicked the crap out of him and
the CPS people that showed up. Once he saw no backing up he changed his
attitude toward his Mom and other women and made sure his younger
siblings did the same. He and his wife are great parents, ensuring my
first great grand minds, uses manners, stays clean, eats properly, etc.
I'm very proud of a young man I was fully prepared to beat to death at
one time. They can change Gord, they just have to be motivated. <BSEG>

George

[George Shirley]

Regnirps wrote:

> Mary Shafer wrote:
>
> << We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.
>
> Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
> miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
> much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
> teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
> years and engineering takes the standard four years. >>
>
> It is true that teachers usually don't start very high, but in the Seattle area
> we have classroom teachers making over $60K and they have summers off and
> several one or two week breaks and frequent three day weekends. Not to mention
> that once they figure out a system they have a rather short work day. It think
> it is a pretty cushy racket with excellent retirement and benefits of all
> stripes. I come from a family full of teachers and as a child I thought
> everybody had summers off.
>
> I have been occasionally induced to look at special programs to get people from
> the sciences into teaching. Since I was laid off I have looked into them more
> seriously and so far thay have turned out to be political scams carefully
> designed to look good but be incompletable in practice, at least for someone
> who is broke :-)
>
> -- Charlie Springer
>
Texas did have a good plan to attract business and science folks into
teaching. Haven't kept up to it since I moved but they paid for the
hours needed to get a teaching certificate and paid you to teach while
you went to school at night.

Louisiana, where I now reside, needs to do something, they're about 40
percent shy of having enough certified teachers in the classrooms so
someone's cousin or sibling is teaching without one. Louisiana also has
the best politicians money can buy. At least two ex insurance
commissioners and one ex governor are in the federal pokey for stealing
from the public. And even at that some dumbasses are getting up a
petition to try to let the governor out because he's old and sick. He
was old and sick when he was stealing from the citizens let him rot in jail.

George

[Mary Shafer]

On 24 Nov 2003 21:53:16 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

> Mary Shafer wrote:
>
> << We aren't willing to pay for the brightest, though.
>
> Say I'm good at math and I like it, so I can go into teaching for some
> miserable pittance or I can go into engineering for three times as
> much. If I'm as smart as you're hoping for, I'm too smart to go into
> teaching. And I save a year of college, because teaching takes five
> years and engineering takes the standard four years. >>
>
> It is true that teachers usually don't start very high, but in the Seattle area
> we have classroom teachers making over $60K and they have summers off and
> several one or two week breaks and frequent three day weekends. Not to mention
> that once they figure out a system they have a rather short work day. It think
> it is a pretty cushy racket with excellent retirement and benefits of all
> stripes. I come from a family full of teachers and as a child I thought
> everybody had summers off.

Those teachers didn't get to $60M very quickly, either. They had to
get a Master's, keep taking courses, and teach a lot of years, like
twenty.

My dad was a teacher and I can tell you that they may not spend eight
hours every day in the classroom, but they make up for it with the
time they spend working at home. And the summers off are spent taking
compulsory courses for currency and increasing pay levels.

There's no "working out a system", either, because schools change
learning programs and texts, workbooks, whatnot, constantly. Plus you
have to teach to constantly-changing standardized tests.

Sixty thousand dollars is somewhat more than half of what I was making
when I retired and I was a civil servant, meaning my pay wasn't that
great. I wouldn't put up with teenagers all day for that. Or
six-year-olds, come to think of it.

Did you know that if you're in a fire and get a visible burn scar you
can lose your teaching credential? Any disfigurement can do it,
actually. That's not the sort of thing I'd like hanging over my head.

> I have been occasionally induced to look at special programs to get people from
> the sciences into teaching. Since I was laid off I have looked into them more
> seriously and so far thay have turned out to be political scams carefully
> designed to look good but be incompletable in practice, at least for someone
> who is broke :-)

They're not designed for people who are broke; they're designed for
those of us who took early retirement, like me, military folks, and
some industry folks. Teaching would give us a chance to get more
retirement benefits without having them docked the way Social Security
is.

To he who hath shall be given. Says so in the Bible. Well, it says
more in the Bible than just that, but quoting out of context is a
time-honored tradition.

Seriously, I'm sorry they've been such a disappointment. Keep
looking, as some may be more honest.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[[email protected]]

George Shirley > wrote:

>I'm very proud of a young man I was fully prepared to beat to death at
>one time. They can change Gord, they just have to be motivated. <BSEG>
>
>George

That's right George, they need to be shown the 'shining path'
occasionally...nobody could be more horrified about child abuse
(or any abuse actually) than I., but I firmly believe in
enforcing Family Honour when necessary. I will say that it takes
a wise man (or woman) to know when it's necessary though and to
apply just the right amount (and type) of deterrent.

I raised my four little tads to be extremely certain of receiving
any punishment that I had promised...no more no less.

One learns early not to promise that which one is reluctant to
deliver. I think that we owe our children consistency.
--

-Gord.

[Regnirps]

Mary Shafer wrote:

<< Those teachers didn't get to $60M very quickly, either. They had to
get a Master's, keep taking courses, and teach a lot of years, like
twenty.

My dad was a teacher and I can tell you that they may not spend eight
hours every day in the classroom, but they make up for it with the
time they spend working at home. And the summers off are spent taking
compulsory courses for currency and increasing pay levels. >>

My dad is a retired teacher (as is his brother). He picked up his masters when
I was about two years old so it was his third year teaching. Back then there
was not much in the way of continuing ed that had to be taken. It is his
opinion that you can learn everything you need for the classroom in about three
weeks. The Washington State Governor's progeram I looked into most recently
required that someone with a math/science BS take five full load quarters of ed
classes. It turned out to be a "trial program" with only 20 people being
accepted. Location was an extension program not far from Microsoft headquarters
so renting in the area was out of the question and commuting nearly impossible.
It was supposedly aimed at people caught in the slump who had considered
teaching in the past, but I suspect your explanation is much closer to the
truth.

My opinion is they set up the trial to fail. Probably half the students would
find "real" jobs again in the five quarters the classes took. Half those left
would shoot themselves after three quarters of nothing but mind numbing ed
classes. In the end I bet maybe three teachers come out of it and it can be
declared too inefficient to warrant further investment.

Anyway, by the time I tracked down the program it was full. None of the school
system or state school people could tell me a thing. It turned out that the
only doorway was an obscure link starting on the Governor's web site!

On the other hand, I have had some conflicting reports that some of the school
systems do not require a certificate if you have a MS, PhD, or DrS. I think I
can buy a Doctor of Science in physics or computer science from Manchester for
about $1,200 :-)

As for the high tech professions, have you seen anybody get hired at 52 lately?

-- Charlie Springer

[George Shirley]

Regnirps wrote:

> Mary Shafer wrote:
>
> << Those teachers didn't get to $60M very quickly, either. They had to
> get a Master's, keep taking courses, and teach a lot of years, like
> twenty.
>
> My dad was a teacher and I can tell you that they may not spend eight
> hours every day in the classroom, but they make up for it with the
> time they spend working at home. And the summers off are spent taking
> compulsory courses for currency and increasing pay levels. >>
>
> My dad is a retired teacher (as is his brother). He picked up his masters when
> I was about two years old so it was his third year teaching. Back then there
> was not much in the way of continuing ed that had to be taken. It is his
> opinion that you can learn everything you need for the classroom in about three
> weeks. The Washington State Governor's progeram I looked into most recently
> required that someone with a math/science BS take five full load quarters of ed
> classes. It turned out to be a "trial program" with only 20 people being
> accepted. Location was an extension program not far from Microsoft headquarters
> so renting in the area was out of the question and commuting nearly impossible.
> It was supposedly aimed at people caught in the slump who had considered
> teaching in the past, but I suspect your explanation is much closer to the
> truth.
>
> My opinion is they set up the trial to fail. Probably half the students would
> find "real" jobs again in the five quarters the classes took. Half those left
> would shoot themselves after three quarters of nothing but mind numbing ed
> classes. In the end I bet maybe three teachers come out of it and it can be
> declared too inefficient to warrant further investment.
>
> Anyway, by the time I tracked down the program it was full. None of the school
> system or state school people could tell me a thing. It turned out that the
> only doorway was an obscure link starting on the Governor's web site!
>
> On the other hand, I have had some conflicting reports that some of the school
> systems do not require a certificate if you have a MS, PhD, or DrS. I think I
> can buy a Doctor of Science in physics or computer science from Manchester for
> about $1,200 :-)
>
> As for the high tech professions, have you seen anybody get hired at 52 lately?
>
> -- Charlie Springer
>
I was out of work once and began substitute teaching. I don't know about
Washington State but the districts (4) where I subbed in the Houston, TX
area paid $60.00 a day back in the late eighties, some even threw in
lunch. Here in Louisiana a certified teacher who subs gets $55.00 a day
and uncertified gets $45.00. It isn't the best living in the world but
it kept us with a roof over our heads and grub in the belly and
ultimately led to full-time jobs for both of us.

It's been my experience that if you have a job, any kind of job, it
makes it easier to get a better one. May have to do with improved
self-confidence, I'm not sure.

Oh yeah, I started over with a whole new career at 52. I'm now 64 and
self-employed and enjoyed the past 12 years more than I did the previous
30 odd years.

Don't give up Charlie, there's always a job out there for us
"experienced" people.

George

[Seraphim]

George Shirley > wrote in news:%XJwb.7771$I7.5019
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

> It's been my experience that if you have a job, any kind of job, it
> makes it easier to get a better one. May have to do with improved
> self-confidence, I'm not sure.

I would imagine that, atleast partially, it is a factor of the fact that
that spending 6 months looking for a new job while your employed is
easier then spending 6 months when you are unemployed.