Another IFR Haiku

[Dane Spearing]

Instrument basics
Time, tune, turn, throttle, and talk
Save your life they will

[Jim Macklin]

Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.


You know the general heading, so turn then tune.



"Dane Spearing" > wrote in message
...
| Instrument basics
| Time, tune, turn, throttle, and talk
| Save your life they will

[Barry]

> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
>
>
> You know the general heading, so turn then tune.

I learned and teach:

Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk

[Jim Macklin]

That too will work, but tuning is like talking, it can wait.
But time is often the reason to turn, so it often needs to come first.


"Barry" > wrote in message
. ..
|> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
| >
| >
| > You know the general heading, so turn then tune.
|
| I learned and teach:
|
| Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk
|
|

[Hilton]

Jim,

FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I put
my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.

As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an ILS
because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the fix -
same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do you
time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)

Hilton


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> That too will work, but tuning is like talking, it can wait.
> But time is often the reason to turn, so it often needs to come first.
>
>
> "Barry" > wrote in message
> . ..
> |> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
> | >
> | >
> | > You know the general heading, so turn then tune.
> |
> | I learned and teach:
> |
> | Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk
> |
> |
>
>

[Jim Macklin]

Makes sense.
And time, but only as close as is reasonable, if my ground speed is the
issue, without GPS, it is just a guess based on winds that I don't know.

So I time to 10 seconds and remember that I need to see the runway 1/2 to 1
mile ahead in order to land. If I was on the ILS GS I'm aimed at the middle
of the touchdown and would be at 200 feet near the approach lights. If the
GS fails, you level out at the MDA and will be high. Unless the runway is
long [most ILS runways are] it will be hard to make a normal landing. If
the GS fails below MDA and above DH and you don't have the lights, a missed
approach is the safe thing to do.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
BE400/BE1900-BE300


--
Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Happy Holidays
Bah Humbug
What Ever
"Hilton" > wrote in message
t...
| Jim,
|
| FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
| start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I
put
| my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
| Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.
|
| As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an ILS
| because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the
fix -
| same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do you
| time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)
|
| Hilton
|
|
| "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
| ...
| > That too will work, but tuning is like talking, it can wait.
| > But time is often the reason to turn, so it often needs to come first.
| >
| >
| > "Barry" > wrote in message
| > . ..
| > |> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > You know the general heading, so turn then tune.
| > |
| > | I learned and teach:
| > |
| > | Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

[No Name]

Seems that GPS makes the time thing irrelevant.

Watch the little airplane on the screen.


"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
...
> Makes sense.
> And time, but only as close as is reasonable, if my ground speed is the
> issue, without GPS, it is just a guess based on winds that I don't know.
>
> So I time to 10 seconds and remember that I need to see the runway 1/2 to
> 1
> mile ahead in order to land. If I was on the ILS GS I'm aimed at the
> middle
> of the touchdown and would be at 200 feet near the approach lights. If
> the
> GS fails, you level out at the MDA and will be high. Unless the runway is
> long [most ILS runways are] it will be hard to make a normal landing. If
> the GS fails below MDA and above DH and you don't have the lights, a
> missed
> approach is the safe thing to do.
>
>
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFII-ASMELI, A&P
> BE400/BE1900-BE300
>
>
> --
> Merry Christmas
> Happy New Year
> Happy Holidays
> Bah Humbug
> What Ever
> "Hilton" > wrote in message
> t...
> | Jim,
> |
> | FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember
> to
> | start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I
> put
> | my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
> | Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.
> |
> | As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an
> ILS
> | because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the
> fix -
> | same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do
> you
> | time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)
> |
> | Hilton
> |
> |
> | "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
> | ...
> | > That too will work, but tuning is like talking, it can wait.
> | > But time is often the reason to turn, so it often needs to come first.
> | >
> | >
> | > "Barry" > wrote in message
> | > . ..
> | > |> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | > You know the general heading, so turn then tune.
> | > |
> | > | I learned and teach:
> | > |
> | > | Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk
> | > |
> | > |
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
>
>

[Dave J]

Also, FWIW, I managed to earn an instrument rating (and use it for a
couple of years before the $ ran out) without ever learning or using
any variation of the 4 or 5 T's. Sure, some of the aircraft I flew had
old bits of label tape with those words peeling off here and there,
but they remain something of a curiosity to me.

My instructor used a cribbed version if the PIC syllabus, I think.

-- dave j


On Dec 15, 11:57 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Jim,
>
> FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
> start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I put
> my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
> Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.
>
> As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an ILS
> because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the fix -
> same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do you
> time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)
>
> Hilton
>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > That too will work, but tuning is like talking, it can wait.
> > But time is often the reason to turn, so it often needs to come first.
>
> > "Barry" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > |> Time, turn, tune, throttle and talk.
> > | >
> > | >
> > | > You know the general heading, so turn then tune.
> > |
> > | I learned and teach:
> > |
> > | Turn, Time, Twist, Throttle, Talk
> > |
> > |

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Dave J wrote:
> Also, FWIW, I managed to earn an instrument rating (and use it for a
> couple of years before the $ ran out) without ever learning or using
> any variation of the 4 or 5 T's. Sure, some of the aircraft I flew had
> old bits of label tape with those words peeling off here and there,
> but they remain something of a curiosity to me.
>
> My instructor used a cribbed version if the PIC syllabus, I think.

Nowadays, PIC sticks "5T's" labels all over the place. <G>

[Andrew Sarangan]

On Dec 16, 2:57 am, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Jim,
>
> FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
> start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I put
> my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
> Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.
>
> As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an ILS
> because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the fix -
> same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do you
> time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)
>
> Hilton
>
> "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>

I never learned the 5T's (or 4T's) and don't teach, and don't
understand it either. Is it to remember the sequence or the actions
themselves?

[Hilton]

Andrew Sarangan write:
> Hilton wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
>> start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I
>> put
>> my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
>> Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.

> I never learned the 5T's (or 4T's) and don't teach, and don't
> understand it either. Is it to remember the sequence or the actions
> themselves?

It's a checklist, used for the reasons checklists are used.

BTW: I learned 6Ts.

Hilton

[Dave J]

On Dec 18, 8:27 pm, Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
> On Dec 16, 2:57 am, "Hilton" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim,
>
> > FWIW: I put time first. Why? For "Turn, Time...", I have to remember to
> > start the time during/after the turn. But when using "Time, Turn..." I put
> > my finger on the start button, and as soon as I hit the fix, I hit the
> > Start - bingo one less thing to remember and more accurate timing too.
>
> > As an aside, it is consistent with all approaches; i.e. yes, I time an ILS
> > because I want to and because my timing is automatic when I cross the fix -
> > same procedure for all. I never meant to move this thread into a "Do you
> > time the ILS?", so let 's not. :)
>
> > Hilton
>
> > "Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> I never learned the 5T's (or 4T's) and don't teach, and don't
> understand it either. Is it to remember the sequence or the actions
> themselves?

Now see, this makes me feel better. :)

-- dave j

[Dave J]

> > I never learned the 5T's (or 4T's) and don't teach, and don't
> > understand it either. Is it to remember the sequence or the actions
> > themselves?
>
> It's a checklist, used for the reasons checklists are used.

I'm a fan of checklists. (In fact, if you're interested there is an
interesting article in last weeks New Yorker about the use of
checklists and "CRM" in medical settings. Apparently, doctors have
been pretty resistant because it implies they are not all heroic
superstars. However, the use of a checklist as well as allowing nurses
(ie, first officers) to challenge doctors who stray from it to
challenge the doctor has shown substantial improvements in medical
care quality. It seems obvious to an aviator, not so much to docs, I
guess. (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/
2007/12/10/071210fa_fact_gawande)

The thing about the T's is that there is already a checklist of sorts
on my lap when I'm flying an approach; it's the approach itself, which
presents lots of little memory aids to help me do it right. I've done
my share of stupid stuff while learning/flying IFR, but I don't think
I've left out anything of the T's -- with the exception of TIME. I
should have a placard in the aircraft that says "look at your watch
now, doofus."

(As an aside, I prefer the wris****ch to the fancy flight timers,
whose buttons present me with something extra to *do*, whereas with
the watch all I need to do is note the positions of the minute and
second hands. And in reality, seconds is usually sufficient, as I'll
likely be looking at it again often enough to track the minutes, too.)


-- dave j

[M[_1_]]

On Dec 18, 11:56 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
>
>
> It's a checklist, used for the reasons checklists are used.
>

Checklist for what? Approaches? I never learned the 5Ts either.

My instructor asked me to use WRIM-TIMC as the approach check list:
weather, radio, instrument, minimum, timer, miss approach procedure,
and before landing check. I normally go through all the above before
receiving my approach clearance, often before handed off to the
approach controller.

[Dane Spearing]

In article >,
M > wrote:
>Checklist for what? Approaches? I never learned the 5Ts either.
>
>My instructor asked me to use WRIM-TIMC as the approach check list:
>weather, radio, instrument, minimum, timer, miss approach procedure,
>and before landing check. I normally go through all the above before
>receiving my approach clearance, often before handed off to the
>approach controller.

Wow. I never thought that my initial posting of an aviation haiku could
produce such lively discussion. :)

It has, however, taught me one thing....there are many different, and
equally good, ways to fly and airplane. Whatever works for each pilot
to keep him/her safe in the skies is a good thing. (Okay...there are lots
of bad ways to fly too, but I like to try and focus on the good ways...)

-- Dane

[Barry]

> My instructor asked me to use WRIM-TIMC as the approach check list:
> weather, radio, instrument, minimum, timer, miss approach procedure,
> and before landing check. I normally go through all the above before
> receiving my approach clearance, often before handed off to the
> approach controller.

I learned MARTHAS:

Missed approach
Altitude
Radios
Time
Heading
Airspeed
Small print

[Bonehenge (B A R R Y)]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:36:30 -0800 (PST), M > wrote:

>On Dec 18, 11:56 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's a checklist, used for the reasons checklists are used.
>>
>
>Checklist for what? Approaches? I never learned the 5Ts either.

The "T's", no matter how many, are a checklist for any navigation
checkpoint or waypoint. You may not need every "T" at every
checkpoint but you go through them all mentally.

I learned Turn - Time - Twist - Throttle - Talk - Track

I learned WIRE for conditioning the airplane for the approach

Weather (ATIS) - Instruments (Crosschecks, Kollsman, Precession,
etc...) - Radio (tune and ID to plate) - Everything Else (checklists)