RAF?

[Eastward Bound]

Just out of curiosity.

Could somebody like me -

An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age

.........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a British Citizen?


~Thanks in Advance!

[Thomas Schoene]

Eastward Bound wrote:
> Just out of curiosity.
>
> Could somebody like me -
>
> An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
>
> ........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a
> British Citizen?

No.

http://www.rafcareers.com/thebigpicture/eligibility.cfm

"2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have been
a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Ed Majden]

"Thomas Schoene"
> No.
>
> http://www.rafcareers.com/thebigpicture/eligibility.cfm
>
> "2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have
been
> a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "
>
When did this change take place? During WWII I'm sure some Yanks must
have enlisted in the RAF before the U.S. entered the war. 303 RAF Squadron
was manned by Poles. A lot of Americans came up to Canada and joined the
RCAF. The reverse was true during the Vietnam war. Many Canadians enlisted
in the U.S. forces.

[Cub Driver]

>..Join the English Royal Air Force?

There is a long and honorable tradition of foreigners serving in the
RAF. I'm not sure though that they would bother with you today,
especially if you want to be a pilot.

>Would that make me a British Citizen

No.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[M. J. Powell]

In message >, Eastward
Bound > writes
>Just out of curiosity.
>
>Could somebody like me -
>
>An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
>
>........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a British
>Citizen?

The English RAF doesn't exist.

No. You have to have been born lucky, like me.

Mike


--
M.J.Powell

[morten lund]

I suspect it was a "In Time of War"-thing.
the Americans that came over were all recruited in Canada (I just read about
it in Harold Buell's Dauntless Helldivers), and it was all a somewhat shady
deal legally, from what I gather.

RAF was *really* short of pilots then, and not too picky regarding
citizenship.

/Morten

"Ed Majden" > wrote in message
news:HcwCb.679994$6C4.439718@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Thomas Schoene"
> > No.
> >
> > http://www.rafcareers.com/thebigpicture/eligibility.cfm
> >
> > "2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have
> been
> > a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "
> >
> When did this change take place? During WWII I'm sure some Yanks must
> have enlisted in the RAF before the U.S. entered the war. 303 RAF
Squadron
> was manned by Poles. A lot of Americans came up to Canada and joined the
> RCAF. The reverse was true during the Vietnam war. Many Canadians
enlisted
> in the U.S. forces.
>
>

[Peter Kemp]

On or about Sat, 13 Dec 2003 03:18:24 GMT, "Thomas Schoene"
> allegedly uttered:

>Eastward Bound wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity.
>>
>> Could somebody like me -
>>
>> An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
>>
>> ........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a
>> British Citizen?
>
>No.
>
>http://www.rafcareers.com/thebigpicture/eligibility.cfm
>
>"2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have been
>a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "

FWIW they also take half-breeds.
I was dual nationality (my Mum's Danish), and they said as long I
renounced my Danish nationality I could serve. As it happens I had to
renounce it to avoid national service in a country where I didn't
speak the language, but my job seeking took me elsewhere.
---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - Drink Faster

[Ed Majden]

"Ed Majden"
> When did this change take place? During WWII I'm sure some Yanks must
> have enlisted in the RAF before the U.S. entered the war. 303 RAF
Squadron
> was manned by Poles. A lot of Americans came up to Canada and joined the
> RCAF. The reverse was true during the Vietnam war. Many Canadians
enlisted
> in the U.S. forces.
>
When the Arrow was cancelled moral was low in the RCAF. I phoned a USAF
recruiter in Detroit to enquire about the USAF. I was told I would have to
come down to the USA if I was interested. I asked if my service in the RCAF
would be given recognition. The recruiter stated that it wouldn't but
previous training would probably help after adjusting to USAF methods. I
did not take him up on the offer but stayed with the RCAF/CAF until
retirement.

[Eastward Bound]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
> >..Join the English Royal Air Force?
>
> There is a long and honorable tradition of foreigners serving in the
> RAF. I'm not sure though that they would bother with you today,
> especially if you want to be a pilot.
>
> >Would that make me a British Citizen
>
> No.
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email:
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com


You tea chuggers are mean!

Here in America the Canadians are free to join our Army and become
American citizens in so doing.

Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?

[JDupre5762]

>"2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have been
>a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "

Does that mean no naturalized British citizen can join the RAF?

In the US it is possible for foriegners to join the military services and
that speeds up the process of becoming a naturalized citizen.

John Dupre'

[Tom Nealon]

"Thomas Schoene" > wrote in message et>...
> Eastward Bound wrote:
> > Just out of curiosity.
> >
> > Could somebody like me -
> >
> > An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
> >
> > ........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a
> > British Citizen?
>
> No.
>
> http://www.rafcareers.com/thebigpicture/eligibility.cfm
>
> "2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth have been
> a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of Ireland. "

There might be a little bit of a problem if you were born in the
commonwealth but you place of birth is no longer a member. For example
my girlfriend it Hong Kong Chinese has a UK passport and wasn't
allowed to join her university's RAF Student Officer Corps. Reason
given HK not in the Commonwealth (Maybe its because HK was not a CW
member just a territory of the UK not sure...) This stance will
exclude a lot of White Zimbabweans now but perhaps they would be
allowed being white and all...

Tom

[Ron]

>n the US it is possible for foriegners to join the military services and
>that speeds up the process of becoming a naturalized citizen.
>
>John Dupre'
>

Yes foreigners can join, but they can not recieve a commission until they are
US citiizens.

I think military service will speed up the time for citizenship.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

[Cub Driver]

>Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?

It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I think
most European countries) take the opposite view.

The child of two Americans, born overseas, does not automatically have
American citizenship. He must spend three? years in the U.S. before
his 21st? birthday in order to nail it down.

Europeans would find this bizzare. I am an Irish citizen, with an
Irish passport, because my father was born in Ireland. It doesn't
matter that I was born in Massachusetts.

Since the U.S. is a nation of immigrants, we accept foreigners in our
armed forces and even allow their military service to speed the
citizenship process. When I was in the army, a "Lodge Act enlistee"
was a foreigner serving a five-year enlistment. He got his citizenship
along with his discharge papers. This was especially popular (for both
sides) with men from Eastern Europe, who were valued for their
language skills.

Today there was a photo on the internet of a protest demanding rights
for illegal immigrants: BEING HUMAN IS NOT ILLEGAL, or words to that
effect. Europeans would think this is nutty. I think it is nutty. But
it is very American. Basically, if you can get here, no matter how you
arrived, you can demand your rights, including the right to join the
army.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Les Matheson]

>
> The child of two Americans, born overseas, does not automatically have
> American citizenship. He must spend three? years in the U.S. before
> his 21st? birthday in order to nail it down.
>
Wrong!!! The child of Americans born abroad is automatically a US citizen.
All the parents need do is apply for a certificate at the embassy. My
daughter, born in Germany has one, signed by the Sec of State George
Schultz.

As a child of US citizens she could not claim German citizenship, the rules
in other countries vary.

However if one parent were a third country national, the child could claim
dual citizenship and decide later.

Les

[Cub Driver]

>>Would that make me a British Citizen?
>
>I think you'd have to live here fro 10 years and apply for
>naturalisation. Less if you married a Brit.

By that time, he'd be too old for the RAF.

And if he married one, she probably wouldn't want him deploying to
Iraq.

Let's face it: Flight Sim is the way to go.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>Wrong!!! The child of Americans born abroad is automatically a US citizen.
>All the parents need do is apply for a certificate at the embassy. My
>daughter, born in Germany has one, signed by the Sec of State George
>Schultz.

Okay, that's an alternate route. But the point is still validt: the
citizenship doesn't come automatically. (And what if only one parent
is American?)

Contrast this with my granddaughters. They are American because they
were born in New Hampshire. They are British because their father is
British. There was no need to register them.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Thomas Schoene]

JDupre5762 wrote:
>> "2. To join the Royal Air Force you must at all times since birth
>> have been a citizen of the UK, the Commonwealth or the Republic of
>> Ireland. "
>
> Does that mean no naturalized British citizen can join the RAF?

Apparently, yes. The wording seems fairly specifically meant to convey
this.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Emmanuel.Gustin]

Cub Driver > wrote:

:>Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?

: It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
: citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I think
: most European countries) take the opposite view.

AFAIK this is the German point of view, but not shared
by most European nations, including Britain. You can be
refused UK citizenship even after a long stay if the law
thinks you're a shady character -- read Muhammed
Al-Fayed -- but one can perfectly be naturalised else.

The RAF can presumably be more strict, although they
probably could be made to accept all EU citizens.
IIRC there has been a ruling by the European court
that the freedom to get a job in another EU country
applies to the military as well.

--
Emmanuel Gustin

[Cub Driver]

>the freedom to get a job in another EU country
>applies to the military as well.

Wow. No wonder the Brits are uneasy about their membership in the
Community.

My first reaction was what they would do when thousands of Turks
turned up at the recruiting office ... then I remembered the Ghurkas.

(And the Irish.)

What does the EU say about language requriements for such employment?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Stephen Gallagher]

> It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
> citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I think
> most European countries) take the opposite view.

Britain's nationality law is primarily based on place of
birth (a legal concept known as jus soli), not on ancestry
(jus sanguinis).

Prior to 1983, birth in the UK, would confer British nationality.
Since 1983, a person born in the UK would be British only
if a parent was British OR if the parent was "settled" in the UK.

Settled means ordinarily resident in the UK without being
subject to immigration restrictions, and this provision was
implementeed in order to provide for British nationality by
birth in the UK, to the children of non-British
legal residents of the UK as well as the children of British
citizens, but to stop visitors from coming to the UK solely
for the purpose of obtaining British nationality for their
children. It's believed that the Thatcher government
implemented this change on the concept that there would be a
flood of people from Hong Kong, coming to the UK to obtain
full British nationality for their children once it was announced
that Hong Kong would revert to Chinese control.

There are, of course, some countries in the world whose
nationality laws are solely based on ancestry, and place of
birth has no bearing on whether a person has citizenship there
or not.

> The child of two Americans, born overseas, does not automatically have
> American citizenship. He must spend three? years in the U.S. before
> his 21st? birthday in order to nail it down.

Not anymore.

The requirement for a person born outside the US, and who
receives US citizenship through parentage, to return to the US
to live for a period of time, in order to maintain his US citizenship
was repealed in 1978.

Now, a person who receives his US citizenship through birth
abroad to US parent(s) has no requirement to ever return to
the US in order to maintain citizenship.

>
> Europeans would find this bizzare. I am an Irish citizen, with an
> Irish passport, because my father was born in Ireland. It doesn't
> matter that I was born in Massachusetts.

Several European countries have similar concepts. A friend of mine
is an Italian citizen because his parents were born in Italy. He's
also a Canadian by birth.

Stephen Gallagher

[Stephen Gallagher]

> > The child of two Americans, born overseas, does not automatically have
> > American citizenship. He must spend three? years in the U.S. before
> > his 21st? birthday in order to nail it down.
> >
> Wrong!!! The child of Americans born abroad is automatically a US citizen.
> All the parents need do is apply for a certificate at the embassy. My
> daughter, born in Germany has one, signed by the Sec of State George
> Schultz.

The law regarding US nationality by children born abroad to one or
two US citizen parents has changed several times over the years
and the exact law that applies will depend on when the person
was born, whether one or both parents are US citizens, and
whether the parents are married at the time of the birth.
The current laws can be found on the State Department
website at http://travel.state.gov/acquisition.html

> As a child of US citizens she could not claim German citizenship, the rules
> in other countries vary.

Unless you or your wife was a German citizen, your daughter would
not have had any claim to German citizenship. Until recently,
Germany did not confer citizenship based on birth in Germany.
You were German if you had a German parent. Birth in Germany
played no part in equation. Germany has recently allowed children
born in Germany to long term residents to have German citizenship.

> However if one parent were a third country national, the child could claim
> dual citizenship and decide later.

Keep in mind that there is no requirement, by the US, to "decide"
on which citizenship you wish to have. A person with dual US/other
citizenship can keep both citizenships for life, as far as the US is
concerned. The "other" country may or may not have a requirement
to "choose" or "decide", but the US does not.

Stephen Gallagher

[Emmanuel.Gustin]

Cub Driver > wrote:

:>the freedom to get a job in another EU country
:>applies to the military as well.

: Wow. No wonder the Brits are uneasy about their membership in the
: Community.

: My first reaction was what they would do when thousands of Turks
: turned up at the recruiting office ... then I remembered the Ghurkas.

: (And the Irish.)

Yes, and don't forget what would happen if a Czech or Pole
would show up at the recruitment office and be denied entry.
His countrymen might just think that that's unfair.

: What does the EU say about language requriements for such employment?

I see nothing that objects to the RAF rejecting recruits
on the basis of deficient language skills, or other lack
of ability.

--
Emmanuel Gustin

[TJ]

"Emmanuel.Gustin" > wrote in message
...
> Cub Driver > wrote:
>
> :>Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?
>
> : It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
> : citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I think
> : most European countries) take the opposite view.
>
> AFAIK this is the German point of view, but not shared
> by most European nations, including Britain. You can be
> refused UK citizenship even after a long stay if the law
> thinks you're a shady character -- read Muhammed
> Al-Fayed -- but one can perfectly be naturalised else.
>
> The RAF can presumably be more strict, although they
> probably could be made to accept all EU citizens.
> IIRC there has been a ruling by the European court
> that the freedom to get a job in another EU country
> applies to the military as well.
>
> --
> Emmanuel Gustin
>

We are currently below strength in the RAF. We have a deficit of just over a
1,000 in the non-commissioned ranks.

TJ

[Jim Battista]

Cub Driver > wrote in
:

>
>>Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?
>
> It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
> citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I
> think most European countries) take the opposite view.
>
> The child of two Americans, born overseas, does not automatically
> have American citizenship. He must spend three? years in the U.S.
> before his 21st? birthday in order to nail it down.

Non, as others have noted.

Whether an American citizen passes on American citizenship to a child
born outside the US depends on the *citizen's* residence in the US.
For me, born in the US and having lived in the US most of my life*,
my kid Ethelred is automatically a US citizen no matter where he's
born, let's hypothesize Jimbostan. But if Eggfilth remains in
Jimbostan and never comes to the US, his kids born abroad will *not*
be US citizens at birth, even though they are the children of an
American citizen.

Jim, who notes that you learn all sorts of interesting things when
you marry a foreign Canadian person.

*all of it, if they'd count the times when my dad was stationed in
Germany as US residence

--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:47:30 -0500, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>
> >the freedom to get a job in another EU country
> >applies to the military as well.
>
> Wow. No wonder the Brits are uneasy about their membership in the
> Community.
>
> My first reaction was what they would do when thousands of Turks
> turned up at the recruiting office ... then I remembered the Ghurkas.

I read somewhere that in the Korean Conflict the Turkish troops were
regarded by the North Koreans as quite fearsome fighters. To the
extent that the North Koreans would avoid engagement in any area they
knew to have Turkish soldiers.

I haven't read much about Korea, so I don't have any feel for true
this is, though. Perhaps someone else knows?

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[phil hunt]

On 14 Dec 2003 12:02:21 GMT, Emmanuel.Gustin > wrote:
>Cub Driver > wrote:
>
>:>Why the double standard? Why the hipocracy? Why the predjudice?
>
>: It's none of the above. The United States takes the attitude that
>: citizenship comes with residence, not bloodline. Britain (and I think
>: most European countries) take the opposite view.
>
>AFAIK this is the German point of view,

AIUI you're a bit out of date here: people with Turkish ancestry
brought up in Germany now get German citizenship as a matter of
course.

>The RAF can presumably be more strict, although they
>probably could be made to accept all EU citizens.
>IIRC there has been a ruling by the European court
>that the freedom to get a job in another EU country
>applies to the military as well.

Not heard of that; got a URL?

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[phil hunt]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:47:30 -0500, Cub Driver > wrote:
>
>>the freedom to get a job in another EU country
>>applies to the military as well.
>
>Wow. No wonder the Brits are uneasy about their membership in the
>Community.
>
>My first reaction was what they would do when thousands of Turks
>turned up at the recruiting office ... then I remembered the Ghurkas.
>
>(And the Irish.)
>
>What does the EU say about language requriements for such employment?

Nothing AFAIK.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[phil hunt]

On 14 Dec 2003 06:36:17 -0800, Stephen Gallagher > wrote:
>
>Keep in mind that there is no requirement, by the US, to "decide"
>on which citizenship you wish to have. A person with dual US/other
>citizenship can keep both citizenships for life, as far as the US is
>concerned. The "other" country may or may not have a requirement
>to "choose" or "decide", but the US does not.

I don't think this has always been the case. There was a guy in the
1980s who resigned his British citizenship, so he could get US
citizenship, so he could join the USAF. He was eventually dismissed
from the USAF, and Britain deported him to the USA.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[The Revolution Will Not Be Televised]

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:47:30 -0500, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>>the freedom to get a job in another EU country
>>applies to the military as well.
>
>Wow. No wonder the Brits are uneasy about their membership in the
>Community.
>
>My first reaction was what they would do when thousands of Turks
>turned up at the recruiting office ... then I remembered the Ghurkas.
>
>(And the Irish.)

Freedom of travel and employment and enlistment into British forces
for citizens of Ireland/the Irish republic predates the EU measures by
some margin, going back to the 1922 Anglo-Irish treaty.

Gavin Bailey

[Cub Driver]

>For solely bureaucratic reasons, you ask for a
>consular birth certificate for an American born abroad.
>It makes things a little easier when later applying
>for the child's own US passport.

It certainly does make life a bit easier. It heads off the chance the
kid could lose his citizenship.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>I don't think this has always been the case. There was a guy in the
>1980s who resigned his British citizenship, so he could get US
>citizenship, so he could join the USAF. He was eventually dismissed
>from the USAF, and Britain deported him to the USA.

That's correct. The law changed quite recently--within ten years, as I
recall. Americans can now hold dual citizenship and twin passports. (I
do.)

A famous American who renounced his citizenship was Lee Harvey Oswald.
That the U.S. State Dept seldom took such matters seriously is
demonstrated by the fact that he was not only permitted to return to
the U.S. but to bring his Russian wife with him.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>I read somewhere that in the Korean Conflict the Turkish troops were
>regarded by the North Koreans as quite fearsome fighters.

They were indeed. They did however have a rather bad time of it on the
retreat from the Yalu (well, everybody had a bad time on that
occasion) when they lost their interpreters.

Another famous UN contingent was the Ethiopians. They were famous for
their prowess in night patrols after the front stabilized. They took
off their boots, held hands, and *ran* through no-man's-land, where
they would pick up a prisoner or two at an observation post, then
depart the way they'd come.

Or so the story was told at the time.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Eastward Bound]

(Eastward Bound) wrote in message >...
> Just out of curiosity.
>
> Could somebody like me -
>
> An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
>
> ........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a British Citizen?
>
>
> ~Thanks in Advance!


Hey I e-mailed the careers office in London and here is the response I
got:

Please email rafapps-careers.mod.uk as they will be able to proceed
further. Failing that contact us on 02073054278. You would need to
copme along to the careers office etc to make an application as there
will be a number of interviews and tests should you be eligible.
Eligibility depends on a number of things. Application takes between
6-9 months or longer. Thank you for your interest.



Can you imagine that!? Me a yank? In the Royal Air Force? How about
that LOL...

If I wanted the join the Air Force I would join the USAF which might
not be as OLD as the RAF or as rich in history but is still something
great to be a part of. Sure the USAF might not have as much history
but IMO has a better fleet of aircraft. Is bigger in numbers,
likewise needs more volunteers to keep operating.

[Stephen Gallagher]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
> >I don't think this has always been the case. There was a guy in the
> >1980s who resigned his British citizenship, so he could get US
> >citizenship, so he could join the USAF. He was eventually dismissed
> >from the USAF, and Britain deported him to the USA.
>
> That's correct. The law changed quite recently--within ten years, as I
> recall. Americans can now hold dual citizenship and twin passports. (I
> do.)

It's probably more accurate to say that the law
was clarified recently. Americans were able to hold
dual citizenship, in certain cases, even as far back
as the 1950s, but it was also very easy to accidentally
or unwillingly lose US citizen by performing certain
actions related to that other citizenship. A
series of Supreme Court decisions followed by State
Department policy changes have all but reversed the
US's former "anti-dual-nationality" stance.

Still, many people believe that the US does not
permit dual citizenship or that US citizens who
also have another citizenship must somehow choose
only one when they reach a certain age, and that's
not true.

From the US point of view, a US citizen who holds
both US citizenship and another citizenship is treated
the same as any other US citizen without the other
citizenship being taken into account. They are required
to obey the laws that apply to any US citizen. But, then
again, that's how most countries handle dual citizenship
(at least those that don't prohibit it). They apply their
laws on that person the same as they do any other one
of their citizens.

Stephen Gallagher

[M. J. Powell]

In message >, Eastward
Bound > writes
(Eastward Bound) wrote in message
>...
>> Just out of curiosity.
>>
>> Could somebody like me -
>>
>> An American - No Criminal History - Single male - 19 years of age
>>
>> ........Join the English Royal Air Force? Would that make me a
>>British Citizen?
>>
>>
>> ~Thanks in Advance!
>
>
>Hey I e-mailed the careers office in London and here is the response I
>got:
>
>Please email rafapps-careers.mod.uk as they will be able to proceed
>further. Failing that contact us on 02073054278. You would need to
>copme along to the careers office etc to make an application as there
>will be a number of interviews and tests should you be eligible.
>Eligibility depends on a number of things. Application takes between
>6-9 months or longer. Thank you for your interest.
>
>
>
>Can you imagine that!? Me a yank? In the Royal Air Force? How about
>that LOL...

Wasn't there a film called 'A Yank in the RAF'?

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

[phil hunt]

On 15 Dec 2003 04:45:56 GMT, IBM > wrote:
>"TJ" > wrote in
:
>
> [snip]
>
>> We are currently below strength in the RAF. We have a deficit of just
>> over a 1,000 in the non-commissioned ranks.
>
>
> MEMO
>
> To: Sqn Ldr M v Richthofen
> 24 Squadron
> RAF Leuchars
>
> From: AVM F G A Winston-Smythe, CB
> AOC Strike Command
> MOD London.
>
> Dear Sqn Ldr v Richthofen,
>
> While the RAF is, as an organisation, not unmindful of the facts that
> you have presented we feel that operational considerations militate
> against your request to have your squadron inventory of Eurofighter
> aircraft painted red. Emblazoning your own aircraft withe legend
> "Blue Max" is similarly out of the question due to long-standing
> service policy.

Incidently, Germany does have a Richthofen squadron (JG71). I'd be
rather cool if they painted their Typhoons red.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: >, but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

[Ed Majden]

"Eastward Bound"
> If I wanted the join the Air Force I would join the USAF which might
> not be as OLD as the RAF or as rich in history but is still something
> great to be a part of. Sure the USAF might not have as much history
> but IMO has a better fleet of aircraft. Is bigger in numbers,
> likewise needs more volunteers to keep operating.

If you want to fly antiques you might consider joining the Canadian
Armed Forces.
They have a fleet of antique aircraft! Almost as old as the Commemorative
Air Force! ;-(

Ed (retired RCAF/CAF Tech)
Hoping things will improve!

[funkraum]

> Mary Shafer > wrote:
[...]
>I read somewhere that in the Korean Conflict the Turkish troops were
>regarded by the North Koreans as quite fearsome fighters. To the
>extent that the North Koreans would avoid engagement in any area they
>knew to have Turkish soldiers.
>
>I haven't read much about Korea, so I don't have any feel for true
>this is, though. Perhaps someone else knows?
>

'quite fearsome fighters'

That's a yes. Fierce and unforgiving seemed to be the polite
description.

[Eastward Bound]

"Ed Majden" > wrote in message news:<LkmDb.713856$6C4.570027@pd7tw1no>...
> "Eastward Bound"
> > If I wanted the join the Air Force I would join the USAF which might
> > not be as OLD as the RAF or as rich in history but is still something
> > great to be a part of. Sure the USAF might not have as much history
> > but IMO has a better fleet of aircraft. Is bigger in numbers,
> > likewise needs more volunteers to keep operating.
>
> If you want to fly antiques you might consider joining the Canadian
> Armed Forces.
> They have a fleet of antique aircraft! Almost as old as the Commemorative
> Air Force! ;-(
>
> Ed (retired RCAF/CAF Tech)
> Hoping things will improve!


Really? The Canadian Armed Forces enlists foreigners?

[Ed Majden]

"Eastward Bound"
> Really? The Canadian Armed Forces enlists foreigners?

The RCAF had many recruits from the USA prior to them entering the war!
With all the cutbacks in strength today this may be more difficult. There
are waiting lists for Canadian citizens these days , except for trained
pilots and medical doctors!

[Andrew Chaplin]

Eastward Bound wrote:

> Really? The Canadian Armed Forces enlists foreigners?

Not usually, but it will in a pinch.

[QR&O] 6.01 – QUALIFICATIONS FOR ENROLMENT

(1) In order to be eligible for enrolment in the Canadian Forces as an
officer or non-commissioned member, a person must:

(a) be a Canadian citizen, except that the Chief of the Defence Staff
or such officer as he may designate[1] may authorize the enrolment of
a citizen of another country if he is satisfied that a special need
exists and that the national interest would not be prejudiced thereby;

[1] Associate Deputy Minister -- Human Resources (Military) AKA
ADM-HR(Mil)
http://www.dnd.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol1/ch006_e.asp#6.01
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Ed Majden]

"Dave Holford"
> Must have changed. Back in the days when we had an air force (50s and
> 60s) it used to be a standing joke that "I was a Canadian in the RCAF".
> Incidentally I wasn't a Canadian at that time and neither were a
> significant number of my squadron; although I think most of us were
> citizens of Commonwealth countries. I did encounter two Irish citizens,
> one of whom was rabidly anti-English but he departed the service while
> still in pilot training after threatening his instructor with a broken
> beer bottle.

Dave:
Reminds me of an incident from the old days of the RCAF in the late
1950's. Our base was having practice parades for a change of command
ceremonial. We had a very keen young English Flying Officer (2nd Lt.) that
was acting as the parade adjutant. It had rained the morning of the parade
and there were a number of puddles on the tarmac.
The CO arrived to take the salute and as was the usual practice the adjutant
stood a few feet from the base commander. He in fact was standing in a
puddle of water. The parade was brought to attention and in the usual keen
British fashion he slammed his foot to the ground. The CO looked down at
his now wet trousers and splashed uniform. Without saying a word he walked
over to the Flying Officer, took him by the hand and led him to a dry spot
on the tarmac and indicated that he should not move from there for the
remainder of the parade. By this time it was too late! The general ranks
had broken into laughter. The mornings parade was called off resulting in
another practice a few days later with a different adjutant.
From the days when we had a real air force!

[M. J. Powell]

In message <aAyDb.726293$9l5.572450@pd7tw2no>, Ed Majden
> writes
> Dave:
> Reminds me of an incident from the old days of the RCAF in the late
>1950's. Our base was having practice parades for a change of command
>ceremonial. We had a very keen young English Flying Officer (2nd Lt.) that
>was acting as the parade adjutant.

Lieutenant.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

[Ed Majden]

"M. J. Powell" > Lieutenant.
>
> Mike
> --
Your right of course. He may have been a Pilot Officer; it is some time
back to remember.
P.O. - 2nd Lt. , F/O - 1st Lt, F/L - Captain, S/L - Major, W/C - Lt/Col,
Group Captain - Colonel.

[M. J. Powell]

In message <udFDb.729795$9l5.162722@pd7tw2no>, Ed Majden
> writes
>
>"M. J. Powell" > Lieutenant.
>>
>> Mike
>> --
> Your right of course. He may have been a Pilot Officer; it is some time
>back to remember.
>P.O. - 2nd Lt. , F/O - 1st Lt, F/L - Captain, S/L - Major, W/C - Lt/Col,
>Group Captain - Colonel.

10/10

Mike
--
M.J.Powell