Re: Hiroshima justified? (wasRe: Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other

[B2431]

>From: RogerM
>
>"Col. RJ" wrote:
>>
>>
>> First off, **** Japan, they started it, we finished it.
>
>First off, **** you asshole. The women and children who were murdered
>didn't have **** to with Pearl Harbor.
>

Firstly, can we all discuss this without vulgarity?

Secondly the atomic and conventional bombings "murdered" no one. The children
didn't deserve to die in Hawaii or Japan. I defy you to explain to me how to
strike a military target in or near a civilian population without civilian
casualties. The Japanese were not about to let anyone park a bomb laden truck
in or near a military target any more than the U.S. was going to allow the
Japanese to place bombs on our vessels in Pearl.

In war innocent people die and, unfortunately, too many are children.

I hold Japan responsible for the atomic bombings. Japan invaded China and was
extremely inhumane in the treatment of the populace. The U.S. stopped exports
of materials Japan needed. Japan decided to secure their own sources of raw
materials by expanding into SEA.. To do this they needed time which they
attempted to buy by striking Pearl Harbour. This is as implification of what
actually happened.

Japan started it. Now I ask you again: how does one strike a military target
with any weapon available in 1945 without hitting any civilians living near by?
If you can't answer that with a positive solution the only solution is to not
strike the target.

If the Chinese, U.K. and U.S. had just rolled over and allowed Japan to do as
she willed those children might be alive. Can you say the same about the
children in Japanese occupied territory? Think of Nanking and the cities Japan
bombed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Slapshot]

<SNIP Good Points>
> If the Chinese, U.K. and U.S. had just rolled over and allowed Japan to do
as
> she willed those children might be alive. Can you say the same about the
> children in Japanese occupied territory? Think of Nanking and the cities
Japan
> bombed.
>
Not to mention the fact that most uneducated people overlook, an actual
invasion of Japan by US forces (which would have happened had they not
capitulated after the A-Bomb strikes, or had we not had the A-Bomb) would
have let to far more casualties for the Japanese than those suffered at
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not to mention the thousands of US troops that would
have been killed.

Seems all these people that attempt to fault the US for using the bomb
either can't see these common sense facts, or choose to ignore them.

Just the old footage of thousands of Japanese women and children training to
fight US forces with spears in the event of invasion should tell anyone that
going into Japan would have been far worse for both sides than the option
that was taken.

[Keith Willshaw]

"Slapshot" > wrote in message
news:83CFb.18497$a44.4239@okepread04...

>
> Just the old footage of thousands of Japanese women and children training
to
> fight US forces with spears in the event of invasion should tell anyone
that
> going into Japan would have been far worse for both sides than the option
> that was taken.
>
>

In Okinawa around 1/3 of the civilian population were killed during
the fighting. Total Japanese and Okinawan casualties have been
estimated at 130,000 military and 142,000 Civilian

That level of conflict on the Japanese Home Islands would produce
a casualty count that would make the death toll from Hiroshima
and Nagasaki seem like a minor event.

Keith

[B2431]

>From: Richard Periut
>Date: 12/26/2003 12:11 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Pardon the intrusion; but the biggest sin of this country was the
>shameless act of killing innocent lives, just to set an example.
>
>The device should of been dropped on the emperor and high command of the
>Japanese military machine.
>
>Richard
>

Please use Google to read the entire thread. Your point about casualties has
been addressed ad nauseum.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[B2431]

>From: Richard Periut
>Date: 12/27/2003 7:53 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Charles Gray wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 06:11:26 GMT, Richard Periut >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pardon the intrusion; but the biggest sin of this country was the
>>>shameless act of killing innocent lives, just to set an example.
>>>
>>>The device should of been dropped on the emperor and high command of the
>>>Japanese military machine.
>>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>>
>> And then who do you get to surrender? Cut off the head and you
>> have dozens of organizations, some which will surrender, others who
>> won't and nojne who can surrender for the nation as a whole.
>> It was the emperors and governments command that permitted the quick
>> and easy occupation and demobilization of Japan-- compare that to some
>> of the difficulties in Iraq, where no such cooperation took place.
>>
>
>So let me get this straight; in order to clear a country of a despotism,
>you have to try to annihilate at least two cities full of thousands of
>civilians?
>
>I'm really intrigued.
>
>Richard

Are you deliberatly forgetting all the other cities and military targets that
had already been destroyed? You do realize the dead in Nagasaki and Hiroshima
are a small percentage of the Japanes who had already died, don't you?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Cub Driver]

>>So let me get this straight; in order to clear a country of a despotism,
>>you have to try to annihilate at least two cities full of thousands of
>>civilians?

That's a pretty good statement of the situation as it faced Truman and
his advisors. All things considered, they decided that it was the best
and least bloody option, and they accepted it. Happily it worked.

Note that Hiroshima in addition to its civilians contained the
headquarters of the Second Group Army, which in contemporary American
terms would be called a Command. It was responsible for southern
Honshu and Kyushu. So if the Americans and British Commonwealth troops
had to make their landing on November 1, it would have been against an
army that had lost its entire headquarters staff.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Dropping bombs on their fleet was easier said than done. Check out the
mighty B17.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/f000001/f003725.jpg

>
>
> Such an impressive thing, could of been dropped on one of their fleets
> (soldiers not civilians.) Then when there was no one to report back,
> they would of been convinced that the recording was real.
>
> Rem that saying, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
>
> Richard
>

[B2431]

>From: Richard Periut


<snip>

>
>Such an impressive thing, could of been dropped on one of their fleets
>(soldiers not civilians.) Then when there was no one to report back,
>they would of been convinced that the recording was real.
>
>Rem that saying, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
>
>Richard
>

What fleets? Due to air and submarine attacks the Japanese had an acute
shortage of naval vessels by August 1945.

Naval personel are reffered to as sailors not soldiers.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired