Generating the Juice

[terra]

I want to describe a clever generator here, and hear what you people think of
this idea.

To begin, you should understand that a large coil placed high in the Earth's
magnetic field is capable of creating very high voltage. As the lines of
magnetic flux travel out from one pole toward the other, the flux moves through
the conductor creating the EMF that forces electrons to flow. I believe that, in
fact, such an experimental apparatus could have been responsible for causing the
recent East coast power outage. A very large conductor may have been placed high
on a tower in the Earth's magnetic field and connected to the power distribution
grid, overloading the system.

My generator uses the magnetic field surrounding a bar magnet, which is
essentially what the Earth is. A coil of wire, simply placed next to the magnet,
is acted upon by the flow of flux and produces endless electricity. This
generator needs no additional outside power, no fuel, and uses NO moving parts.
It is the movement of the very flux *itself* through the conductor that induces
current to flow!

This is a simple device, and the brief description I provided pretty well covers
the basics. If you want to learn the details about how this works, just ask.


All advice and comments are appreciated.
Thank you,

-Garfield-

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:29:02 -0700, terra > wrote:

:I want to describe a clever generator here, and hear what you people think of
:this idea.
:
:To begin, you should understand that a large coil placed high in the Earth's
:magnetic field is capable of creating very high voltage. As the lines of
:magnetic flux travel out from one pole toward the other, the flux moves through
:the conductor creating the EMF that forces electrons to flow. I believe that, in
:fact, such an experimental apparatus could have been responsible for causing the
:recent East coast power outage. A very large conductor may have been placed high
:on a tower in the Earth's magnetic field and connected to the power distribution
:grid, overloading the system.
:
:My generator uses the magnetic field surrounding a bar magnet, which is
:essentially what the Earth is. A coil of wire, simply placed next to the magnet,
:is acted upon by the flow of flux and produces endless electricity. This
:generator needs no additional outside power, no fuel, and uses NO moving parts.
:It is the movement of the very flux *itself* through the conductor that induces
:current to flow!
:
:This is a simple device, and the brief description I provided pretty well covers
:the basics. If you want to learn the details about how this works, just ask.
:
:
:All advice and comments are appreciated.
:Thank you,
:
: -Garfield-

For your large coil to produce electricity, it must move relative to
the magnetic lines of force. What you describe will make a tiny,
tiney amount of electricity because the entire magnetic field of the
earth is slowly shifting relative to the crust and thus relative to
your coil.

OTOH, if you were to put your coil in low earth orbit, moving about
25,000 miles an hour, it would generate a LOT of electricity. And a
lot of drag as it breaks the lines of force, so it wouldn't stay in
orbit long.

If you don't believe me, test it. Buy a large, powerful magnet. Wrap
a coil, attach the ends to an amp meter and put the coil next to the
magnet. Nothing. Move the coil, you get a reading. Put it down,
nothing.

You can get a high voltage potential off a high tower (or off a
tethered balloon) but it's a static charge, there's no amperage behind
it. See http://f3wm.free.fr/sciences/jefimenko.html or search Google
for "corona motor" or "electrostatic motor."

==
My name is Nobody

[CSA722]

>I want to describe a clever generator here, and hear what you people think of
>this idea.

Snake oil

[terra]

terra wrote:
> I want to describe a clever generator here, and hear what you people think of
> this idea.

Thanks everybody, even CSA722. The idea isn't really mine, and I wanted to see
how some other aviation-oriented people would respond to it. I'm an A&P student
and (I'm wincing while writing this) my Electrical Theory instructor dropped
this bomb on the class. I've become known as the guy who always badgers the
instructor because I disagree with him constantly, but now it's time to just let
things go. He's had enough of me.

I expected to see some scoffing here, but I got some really pleasant replies. I
could have done a lot better at persuading "Garfield" that he's wrong about some
things. I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.

[Russell Kent]

Barnyard BOb -- wrote to "terra":

> Look at the bright side.....
> I didn't get on your case. <g>

Slacker. :-)

Russell Kent

[Jay]

You'd have to move the wire in the circuit across the lines of flux,
and this would take work, because the magnetic field would resist the
motion.

If you'd like, do the experiment, loft 10,000 miles of copper wire
into orbit, them put your VOM across the ends, now using a tiny
spaceship, move the wire with a componant normal the the lines of
flux, see the needle deflect.

One of the great things about fresh eyes on a problem is they haven't
accepted all the assumptions that everyone else has already made, so
you really get some out of the box ideas.

What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
=^(

terra > wrote in message >...
> terra wrote:
> > I want to describe a clever generator here, and hear what you people think of
> > this idea.
>
> Thanks everybody, even CSA722. The idea isn't really mine, and I wanted to see
> how some other aviation-oriented people would respond to it. I'm an A&P student
> and (I'm wincing while writing this) my Electrical Theory instructor dropped
> this bomb on the class. I've become known as the guy who always badgers the
> instructor because I disagree with him constantly, but now it's time to just let
> things go. He's had enough of me.
>
> I expected to see some scoffing here, but I got some really pleasant replies. I
> could have done a lot better at persuading "Garfield" that he's wrong about some
> things. I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.

[Rich S.]

"Jay" > wrote in message
m...
> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
> =^(

And........ What will happen if you don't do it?

Rich "The Sky is falling!" S.

[Rich S.]

"karel adams" > wrote in message
...> Nothing new about this
idea.
> There is such a powerplant in French Britanny (Bretagne)
> And only a few miles from here there's a grain
> mill on the same principle - several centuries old...

So if the Sky falls on us, it's the fault of the French?
;-p

Rich "I knew they were up to no good!" S.

[Barnyard BOb --]

>> I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.
>>
>This isn't the same Garfield that used to hang out here, 4 or 5 years ago,
>is it?
>
>He was loony tunes, then. - Morgans
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Heh, heh...

Whutz the odds of TWO looney toons Garfields?
About the same as... TWO Barnyard BObs?


Barnyard BOb --

[Morgans]

"Barnyard BOb --" > wrote in message
...
>
> >> I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.
> >>
> >This isn't the same Garfield that used to hang out here, 4 or 5 years
ago,
> >is it?
> >
> >He was loony tunes, then. - Morgans
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Heh, heh...
>
> Whutz the odds of TWO looney toons Garfields?
> About the same as... TWO Barnyard BObs?
>
>
> Barnyard BOb --
>

Believe it or not........

I would rather there be two of you, than him.

I can't believe I just said that.

"And a descending sickness over came him"
--
Jim in NC

[Del Rawlins]

On 11 Sep 2003 10:10 AM, Morgans posted the following:
>
> "terra" > wrote .
>>
>> I expected to see some scoffing here, but I got some really pleasant
> replies. I
>> could have done a lot better at persuading "Garfield" that he's wrong
> about some
>> things. I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.
>>
> This isn't the same Garfield that used to hang out here, 4 or 5 years
> ago, is it?
>
> He was loony tunes, then.

I don't believe it was the same guy. I wondered the same thing and did
a google search on him, and found a posting history going back to before
the "other" Garfield quit posting.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[RobertR237]

In article >, "Rich S."
> writes:

>> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
>> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
>> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
>> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
>> =^(
>
>And........ What will happen if you don't do it?
>
>

I can't remember the location but tidal power is currently being used to
generate electricty. It would seem to be more dependable for the long haul
than wind or solar since you can predict the tides with great accuracy.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Bill Daniels]

Generating electricity from wind and tides is neat since electricity can be
converted into other forms of energy easily. However, generation and
conversion comes with losses. Sometimes it's worth looking beyond
electricity to see what it is to be used for.

For example, an acquaintance of mine has a workshop located at the end of a
long REA powerline that cannot power big electric power tools. So, he uses
air driven shop tools. Where does he get the compressed air? He built a
windmill that drives a big air compressor. The compressed air is stored in
large tanks until he needs it.

Another acquaintance heats his remote ranch house with a windmill that
churns water to heat it. He also gets heat from solar water heaters.

Ingenuity triumphs again.

Bill Daniels


"RobertR237" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Rich S."
> > writes:
>
> >> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
> >> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
> >> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
> >> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
> >> =^(
> >
> >And........ What will happen if you don't do it?
> >
> >
>
> I can't remember the location but tidal power is currently being used to
> generate electricty. It would seem to be more dependable for the long
haul
> than wind or solar since you can predict the tides with great accuracy.
>
>
> Bob Reed
> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>

[Morgans]

"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Generating electricity from wind and tides is neat since electricity can
be
> converted into other forms of energy easily. However, generation and
> conversion comes with losses. Sometimes it's worth looking beyond
> electricity to see what it is to be used for.
>
> For example, an acquaintance of mine has a workshop located at the end of
a
> long REA powerline that cannot power big electric power tools. So, he
uses
> air driven shop tools. Where does he get the compressed air? He built a
> windmill that drives a big air compressor. The compressed air is stored
in
> large tanks until he needs it.
>
> Another acquaintance heats his remote ranch house with a windmill that
> churns water to heat it. He also gets heat from solar water heaters.
>
> Ingenuity triumphs again.
>
> Bill Daniels

That sounds interesting. What voltage does he have there?

Churning water for heat? That would take one hell of a lot of churning!
Tell us more specifics!
--
Jim in NC

[Ida Covey]

Nova Scotia, just north of Annapolis Royale, on the bay of Fundy, where
tides are in the 40 foot range.

BJC

"RobertR237" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Rich S."
> > writes:
>
> >> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
> >> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
> >> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
> >> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
> >> =^(
> >
> >And........ What will happen if you don't do it?
> >
> >
>
> I can't remember the location but tidal power is currently being used to
> generate electricty. It would seem to be more dependable for the long
haul
> than wind or solar since you can predict the tides with great accuracy.
>
>
> Bob Reed
> www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
> KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
> "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
> pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
> (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)
>

[Bill Daniels]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Generating electricity from wind and tides is neat since electricity can
> be
> > converted into other forms of energy easily. However, generation and
> > conversion comes with losses. Sometimes it's worth looking beyond
> > electricity to see what it is to be used for.
> >
> > For example, an acquaintance of mine has a workshop located at the end
of
> a
> > long REA powerline that cannot power big electric power tools. So, he
> uses
> > air driven shop tools. Where does he get the compressed air? He built
a
> > windmill that drives a big air compressor. The compressed air is stored
> in
> > large tanks until he needs it.
> >
> > Another acquaintance heats his remote ranch house with a windmill that
> > churns water to heat it. He also gets heat from solar water heaters.
> >
> > Ingenuity triumphs again.
> >
> > Bill Daniels
>
> That sounds interesting. What voltage does he have there?

Don't know the voltage but it is supposed to be an old REA line installed in
the 1940's. Probably only intended for a few electric lights and maybe a
radio.
>
> Churning water for heat? That would take one hell of a lot of churning!
> Tell us more specifics!
> --
All the mechanical energy from the windmill goes into heat - one way or
another. It's basically just a dynamometer that absorbs the power output of
the windmill. The windmill runs 24x7 and the hot water is stored in an
insulated underground tank. It's a pretty efficient conversion if the
churn is well designed. Mostly just a barrel with paddles and stators made
of steel.

Bill Daniels

[terra]

Morgans wrote:

> "terra" > wrote .
>>
>> I expected to see some scoffing here, but I got some really pleasant
> replies. I
>> could have done a lot better at persuading "Garfield" that he's wrong
> about some
>> things. I simply pushed. Naturally, he pushed back. I failed.
>>
> This isn't the same Garfield that used to hang out here, 4 or 5 years ago,
> is it?
>
> He was loony tunes, then.
> --
> Jim in NC

No, this Garfield didn't even know he was Garfield until a couple days ago, when
a female student told him he looks like that cat. He's really pretty good;
misses a few concepts, but has lots of practical knowledge from working in the
industry.

[terra]

Bryan Martin wrote:

> in article , Jay at
> wrote on 9/11/03 12:44 PM:
>
>>
>> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
>> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
>> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
>> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
>> =^(
>>
>
> Actually, the Moon is getting farther away from the Earth. The tidal drag of
> the Moon on the Earth is slowing down the Earth's rotation. Since the Earth
> is rotating faster and in the same direction as the Moon is orbiting, the
> Moon is gaining energy as the Earth loses it and the Moon is moving into a
> higher orbit.

Whoa, hold on. I think the Earth's "lost" energy is simply being turned into
heat, right here on Earth. By what mechanism could it be sent to the moon?

[Roger Halstead]

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:33:33 -0500, Big John >
wrote:

>terra
>
>Do you remember the Shuttle test where they unrolled a long wire and
>let it fall down toward the earth with gravity. First test the drum
>stuck and they couldn't unroll the wire.
>
>Second try they got a lot of wire out but experiment didn't produce
>what they expected. Don't remember the data published in AW&S.
>
>Think the Italians provided the hardware and after the second failure
>no more tries that were published.
>

I thought they fried the wore on the second try, or possibly it was on
some tethered experiment where the cable fried from the induced
voltage.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>Is this similar to what you propose? If so ,you might want to contact
>NASA to get any papers they wrote on these experiments.
>

[Pete]

It's got to do with the 'lasso' kind of effect as described on:
http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/kids_space/moon_orbit.html

Cheers,
Pete
Europa Builder A239 dual-wing


"terra" > wrote in message
...
> Bryan Martin wrote:
>
> > in article , Jay at
> > wrote on 9/11/03 12:44 PM:
> >
> >>
> >> What about that tide powered generator idea. Use the force of the
> >> moon's gravitational field to lift water. At low tide, release the
> >> water through turbines and generate some electricity. Although if you
> >> did this enough, the moon would eventually become one with the earth.
> >> =^(
> >>
> >
> > Actually, the Moon is getting farther away from the Earth. The tidal
drag of
> > the Moon on the Earth is slowing down the Earth's rotation. Since the
Earth
> > is rotating faster and in the same direction as the Moon is orbiting,
the
> > Moon is gaining energy as the Earth loses it and the Moon is moving into
a
> > higher orbit.
>
> Whoa, hold on. I think the Earth's "lost" energy is simply being turned
into
> heat, right here on Earth. By what mechanism could it be sent to the moon?
>

[Model Flyer]

"Rich S." > wrote in message
...
> "karel adams" > wrote in message
> ...> Nothing new
about this
> idea.
> > There is such a powerplant in French Britanny (Bretagne)
> > And only a few miles from here there's a grain
> > mill on the same principle - several centuries old...
>
> So if the Sky falls on us, it's the fault of the French?
> ;-p
>
> Rich "I knew they were up to no good!" S.
>

Next thing the French will short out the electricity that powers "the
lamps in the Stars", to Earth.:-), this will signal the end to space
travel and there will be no starlight to navagate by.
--

..
--
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe
whatever at antispam dot net
No email address given because of spam.
Antispam trap in place



>

[Big John]

Roger

I think you might be right as I recall. I didn't throw out those facts
because it was so long ago I might have forgotten the details???

Big John


On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:12:00 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:33:33 -0500, Big John >
>wrote:
>
>>terra
>>
>>Do you remember the Shuttle test where they unrolled a long wire and
>>let it fall down toward the earth with gravity. First test the drum
>>stuck and they couldn't unroll the wire.
>>
>>Second try they got a lot of wire out but experiment didn't produce
>>what they expected. Don't remember the data published in AW&S.
>>
>>Think the Italians provided the hardware and after the second failure
>>no more tries that were published.
>>
>
>I thought they fried the wore on the second try, or possibly it was on
>some tethered experiment where the cable fried from the induced
>voltage.
>
>Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
>www.rogerhalstead.com
>N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>
>>Is this similar to what you propose? If so ,you might want to contact
>>NASA to get any papers they wrote on these experiments.
>>
>

[Bruce A. Frank]

It worked well but there was an arc from the line to the craft which
burned through the cable and the conductor was lost.

Big John wrote:
>
> Roger
>
> I think you might be right as I recall. I didn't throw out those facts
> because it was so long ago I might have forgotten the details???
>
> Big John
>
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:12:00 GMT, Roger Halstead
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:33:33 -0500, Big John >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>terra
> >>
> >>Do you remember the Shuttle test where they unrolled a long wire and
> >>let it fall down toward the earth with gravity. First test the drum
> >>stuck and they couldn't unroll the wire.
> >>
> >>Second try they got a lot of wire out but experiment didn't produce
> >>what they expected. Don't remember the data published in AW&S.
> >>
> >>Think the Italians provided the hardware and after the second failure
> >>no more tries that were published.
> >>
> >
> >I thought they fried the wore on the second try, or possibly it was on
> >some tethered experiment where the cable fried from the induced
> >voltage.
> >
> >Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> >www.rogerhalstead.com
> >N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
> >
> >>Is this similar to what you propose? If so ,you might want to contact
> >>NASA to get any papers they wrote on these experiments.
> >>
> >

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[Eric Miller]

"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
> It worked well but there was an arc from the line to the craft which
> burned through the cable and the conductor was lost.

So what you're saying is those NASA boys didn't read the relevant Advisory
Circular regarding gauging wire for current :p

Eric

[Big John]

Eric

You need to address this to the Italians. They made the test article
and it was their experiment.

Big John


On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:08:48 GMT, "Eric Miller" >
wrote:

>"Bruce A. Frank" > wrote in message
...
>> It worked well but there was an arc from the line to the craft which
>> burned through the cable and the conductor was lost.
>
>So what you're saying is those NASA boys didn't read the relevant Advisory
>Circular regarding gauging wire for current :p
>
>Eric
>