How Long F22/F35?

[BOB URZ]

How long does it take to deploy a new design now?
Not just approve it, Not just build a few and test them, but
get them into the field and operational squadron operations?
The F22 has been going on how many years now?
And how about the F35? When do you think we will see
operational front line squadrons of either? Not paper
dead lines and wishful thinking. Real deployment.

And the issues of COTs seems to be an interesting topic.
When a system is designed, it can be 3 or 4 generations of
CPU processor old by the time its really built.
With such long gestation times, what's the solution?
A pilots home laptop may have more computing power than
many systems in his aircraft. It used to be military and space
electronics technology drove the consumer side. Now, its the
other way around. Strange times we live in.

Bob



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[Smartace11]

>How long does it take to deploy a new design now?
>Not just approve it, Not just build a few and test them, but
>get them into the field and operational squadron operations?

B-2 began in mid 70s and was deployed initially in 1993, hit full ompliment in
1999 or so.

F-22 was early 80s and is just now deploying operationally.

20 years is probably a good number these days.




>The F22 has been going on how many years now?
>And how about the F35? When do you think we will see
>operational front line squadrons of either?


Maybe 2012 for JSF and 2006 for F-22?




>dead lines and wishful thinking. Real deployment.
>
>And the issues of COTs seems to be an interesting topic.
>When a system is designed, it can be 3 or 4 generations of
>CPU processor old by the time its really built.
>With such long gestation times, what's the solution?

Buy out critical items at the end of production and hope the supply never runs
out, at least not until the avionics can be upgraded. Buy from "junkies", ie
electronic salvage firms that know DoD will need certain parts, buy them for
pennies on the dollar and sell them to DoD for dollars on the penny.



>A pilots home laptop may have more computing power than
>many systems in his aircraft.

May? How many 80186 processors does it take to equal a single 1 gig Pentium 4?

[Simon Robbins]

"Smartace11" > wrote in message
...
> Buy out critical items at the end of production and hope the supply never
runs
> out, at least not until the avionics can be upgraded. Buy from "junkies",
ie
> electronic salvage firms that know DoD will need certain parts, buy them
for
> pennies on the dollar and sell them to DoD for dollars on the penny.

Exactly. Basically what's done is, if there's a risk of obsolescense then
the manufacturer has to prove they can supply spares for a known number of
years, typically up to the next forseeable major update. There are many
systems flying now that contain processors that have been out of production
for years. (Believe it or not there are systems that are waiting to be
fitted to aircraft not due to enter service for years that already contain
obsolete components!) Companies often scour the world for long-lost stocks
of obsolete processors, etc. when maintenance becomes a problem.

Si

[BOB URZ]

Simon Robbins wrote:

> "Smartace11" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Buy out critical items at the end of production and hope the supply never
> runs
> > out, at least not until the avionics can be upgraded. Buy from "junkies",
> ie
> > electronic salvage firms that know DoD will need certain parts, buy them
> for
> > pennies on the dollar and sell them to DoD for dollars on the penny.
>
> Exactly. Basically what's done is, if there's a risk of obsolescense then
> the manufacturer has to prove they can supply spares for a known number of
> years, typically up to the next forseeable major update. There are many
> systems flying now that contain processors that have been out of production
> for years. (Believe it or not there are systems that are waiting to be
> fitted to aircraft not due to enter service for years that already contain
> obsolete components!) Companies often scour the world for long-lost stocks
> of obsolete processors, etc. when maintenance becomes a problem.
>
> Si

Cots (commercial off the shelf technology) is a two edges sword.
It used to be the military stuff was custom built at very high (and
expensive) spec ratings. Now with commercial computer and processor
development running rampant, the consumer side drives the market.
Yea, it makes a new product have a higher performance levels than a older
custom design could in many instances. But, it also makes the obselecense
issue much more of a problem.. I think if you asked Intel to whip up a few
thousand 8080's they would laugh at you and show you the door. Even if the
government asked.

Makes me also wonder about the new generation of software military radios
that are essentially more computer than conventional radio.

I also wonder what the russians ar doing these days for computer chips.
I think i remember them cloning some early CPU's. I cannot see them
cloning a P4 level chip. What chips are the russians using these days?
Is there any export restrictions still on high level CPU's to the russians?
even if there was, it probably is not too big a deal to transship around
the problem.

BOB



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[Nick Pedley]

"Simon Robbins" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Smartace11" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Buy out critical items at the end of production and hope the supply
never
> runs
> > out, at least not until the avionics can be upgraded. Buy from
"junkies",
> ie
> > electronic salvage firms that know DoD will need certain parts, buy them
> for
> > pennies on the dollar and sell them to DoD for dollars on the penny.
>
> Exactly. Basically what's done is, if there's a risk of obsolescense then
> the manufacturer has to prove they can supply spares for a known number of
> years, typically up to the next forseeable major update. There are many
> systems flying now that contain processors that have been out of
production
> for years. (Believe it or not there are systems that are waiting to be
> fitted to aircraft not due to enter service for years that already contain
> obsolete components!) Companies often scour the world for long-lost stocks
> of obsolete processors, etc. when maintenance becomes a problem.
>
> Si
>
>
Like NASA and the Space Shuttle electronics?

Nick