New (old) bird

[Steven Barnes]

Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of his.
Compared to our 180, it's huge!

In a couple weeks we upgrade the panel.



One thing that amazes me is the power off sink rate. In the 180, you'd lose
about 500-600 feet in a 210 degree turn back to a runway (learning this
number from practice up at altitude). Today we tried it and the Six lost
1000 feet easy. Heavy thing.


--



CP-ASEL, instrument, CFI

[BT]

I remember flying a -6 in the 1990s.. I also remember the magic number in
the traffic pattern was 90..
you get it too slow and you will be behind the power curve.
you think it's heavy.. wait until you load it.. granted.. two pax in the way
back seats make the flare a little easier..
is it a 260HP or 300HP
B

"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
...
> Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
> Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of
> his.
> Compared to our 180, it's huge!
>
> In a couple weeks we upgrade the panel.
>
>
>
> One thing that amazes me is the power off sink rate. In the 180, you'd
> lose
> about 500-600 feet in a 210 degree turn back to a runway (learning this
> number from practice up at altitude). Today we tried it and the Six lost
> 1000 feet easy. Heavy thing.
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> CP-ASEL, instrument, CFI
>
>

[Steven Barnes]

It's a 260hp. Is that 90 magic number knots? or mph? Downwind, 85-90 knots
seemed to work well, with 80 knots around base & final. Slowing to 70 knots
across the numbers. We're still playing, so it'll take a while to get some
good numbers down.
On our test flying when we first looked at the plane, we had 2 up front & 2
in the aft row. Adding the 2nd notch of flaps seemed to cause a significant
pitch up motion. The landing was pretty smooth, though. Yesterday, my
partner's best landing was his no flap landing with much nose up. I was
hollering for power & he ignored me & greased it on. Pretty funny.

Now it's 14 degrees out & 24 knot winds with forecasts up to 32. She can sit
in the hanger today. :-)

"BT" > wrote in message
...
> I remember flying a -6 in the 1990s.. I also remember the magic number in
> the traffic pattern was 90..
> you get it too slow and you will be behind the power curve.
> you think it's heavy.. wait until you load it.. granted.. two pax in the
way
> back seats make the flare a little easier..
> is it a 260HP or 300HP
> B
>
> "Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
> > Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of
> > his.
> > Compared to our 180, it's huge!
> >
> > In a couple weeks we upgrade the panel.
> >
> >
> >
> > One thing that amazes me is the power off sink rate. In the 180, you'd
> > lose
> > about 500-600 feet in a 210 degree turn back to a runway (learning this
> > number from practice up at altitude). Today we tried it and the Six lost
> > 1000 feet easy. Heavy thing.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > CP-ASEL, instrument, CFI
> >
> >
>
>

[Ray Andraka]

Congrats, You'll soon grow into it and will love it! If you do lose the
engine, look straight down for a landing spot, because that is about
as far as you'll get (actually about a 45 degree down cone is
reachable). It glides about like a brick. Don't even try to make it
back to the runway unless you have at least 1200 feet and have practiced it.

You may find that carrying a bit of power into the flare helps keep you
from dropping it onto the runway, especially if you are heavy. Gap
seals help the landing as well as the climb rate significantly (but
don't do much for cruise speed). The best mod I did to mine though (out
of a long list) is the skycraft wing mounted landing lights that get cut
into the leading edge of the wings just inboard of the tip tanks.
You'll find that the stock nose light is only good for illuminating the
pavement that you can't see through the nose.

I've owned mine (a 1965 -260) for 12 years now, and I still love it.
One last thing, if you aren't already a member, the Cherokee Pilot's
association's on-line chat is worth every penny of the yearly dues for
the near instant advice you can get on there.


Steven Barnes wrote:

> Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
> Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of his.
> Compared to our 180, it's huge!
>
> In a couple weeks we upgrade the panel.
>
>
>
> One thing that amazes me is the power off sink rate. In the 180, you'd lose
> about 500-600 feet in a 210 degree turn back to a runway (learning this
> number from practice up at altitude). Today we tried it and the Six lost
> 1000 feet easy. Heavy thing.
>
>

[JOM]

I am also a fairly new 260 Six owner, and I love this plane. I fly it sort of like a tail dragger (nose high at touchdown) and don't have any problem with good landings.
I nearly always carry a little power through the flare also. I used to live in southeast Alaska and the FAR 135 airtaxi operators fly a lot of Sixes there. The commercial guys there always landed with power too. As I'm sure you have noticed, forward visibility isn't great, (again like a taildragger) but nearly everyone that has much time in one loves the plane.

As has been mentioned, The Cherokee Pilots Assn at: http://www.piperowner.com/ is a really great resource. A very active forum with quite a few Six drivers. You have to be a member to join "Cherokee chat" but its worth it.

John


Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of his.
Compared to our 180, it's huge!

In a couple weeks we upgrade the panel.



One thing that amazes me is the power off sink rate. In the 180, you'd lose
about 500-600 feet in a 210 degree turn back to a runway (learning this
number from practice up at altitude). Today we tried it and the Six lost
1000 feet easy. Heavy thing.


--



CP-ASEL, instrument, CFI

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
> Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of
> his.
> Compared to our 180, it's huge!

Congrats, Steven. Now you can take the whole fam damily, including the
mother-in-law!

The Six is a great plane. I especially like the cabin width -- that would
be a fantastic comfort to have, and it's the one thing I wish Atlas had more
of...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven Barnes]

Thanks. I swear there's a foot between elbows in that thing. Then I crawl
into our club's 172 with winter coats on & snuggle up next to the student...


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:b%Btj.36229$9j6.471@attbi_s22...
> > Well my partners & I are officially broke, again. We picked up our 1966
> > Cherokee Six today. I got my checkout & gave 1 partner the beginning of
> > his.
> > Compared to our 180, it's huge!
>
> Congrats, Steven. Now you can take the whole fam damily, including the
> mother-in-law!
>
> The Six is a great plane. I especially like the cabin width -- that would
> be a fantastic comfort to have, and it's the one thing I wish Atlas had
more
> of...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> The Six is a great plane. I especially like the cabin width -- that
> would be a fantastic comfort to have, and it's the one thing I wish
> Atlas had more of...

See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
count!

P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also
something to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have
to climb up on the wing to get into) and the front baggage compartment.
Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
> count!
>
> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also something
> to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have to climb up
> on the wing to get into) and the front baggage compartment. Admit it Jay,
> you have Piper envy.

No, no, no, Ray. Only Cezzzna drivers have Piper envy!

;-)

About twice a year I would really, really like a Six. Oshkosh and Sun N
Fun, basically.

The other 98 flights, hauling that pig around would truly be wasted on our
little family.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> The Six is a great plane. I especially like the cabin width -- that
>> would be a fantastic comfort to have, and it's the one thing I wish Atlas
>> had more of...
>
> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
> count!
>
> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also something
> to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have to climb up
> on the wing to get into) and the front baggage compartment. Admit it Jay,
> you have Piper envy.

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
>> count!
>>
>> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also
>> something to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have
>> to climb up on the wing to get into) and the front baggage
>> compartment. Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
>
> No, no, no, Ray. Only Cezzzna drivers have Piper envy!

Nah, we have girth length AND two doors! Nothing to envy in a Piper
other than the low purchase price, but you get what you pay for! :-)

Matt

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
>> count!
>>
>> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also
>> something to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have
>> to climb up on the wing to get into) and the front baggage
>> compartment. Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
>
>
> No, no, no, Ray. Only Cezzzna drivers have Piper envy!
>
> ;-)
>
> About twice a year I would really, really like a Six. Oshkosh and Sun N
> Fun, basically.
>
> The other 98 flights, hauling that pig around would truly be wasted on
> our little family.


Jay, probably 2/3rds of my flights are solo in the Six. Yeah, it is
pulling around a lot of airframe to do that, but still cheaper than
owning another airplane. Yup, I'm spoiled. Worth the 15% extra fuel
burn to me.

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different doesn't
>> count!
>>
>> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also
>> something to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't have
>> to climb up on the wing to get into) and the front baggage
>> compartment. Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
>
>
> No, no, no, Ray. Only Cezzzna drivers have Piper envy!
>
> ;-)
>
> About twice a year I would really, really like a Six. Oshkosh and Sun N
> Fun, basically.
>
> The other 98 flights, hauling that pig around would truly be wasted on
> our little family.


Jay, Just think, with a Six, you could take not only your "small"
family, but also bring bikes for everyone (might even fit small
non-folding bikes in) as well as a change or two of clothes. Betcha
can't get four folding bikes into Atlas along with you, Mary and the kids.

[BT]

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...

> Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.

I thought ATLAS was a Piper...

B

[Ray Andraka]

BT wrote:

> "Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
>
>
> I thought ATLAS was a Piper...
>
> B
>
>

He is. I meant something along the lines of Jay feeling his Piper
inadequate after seeing other peoples bigger Piper.

[Steven Barnes]

Heh, "My Piper is bigger than yours". Never thought I'd ever say that...

This weekend we're taking it to a nearby airport to have a GNS430W put in.
Our journey to the dark side will then be complete...

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> BT wrote:
>
> > "Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> >> Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
> >
> >
> > I thought ATLAS was a Piper...
> >
> > B
> >
> >
>
> He is. I meant something along the lines of Jay feeling his Piper
> inadequate after seeing other peoples bigger Piper.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I think Joe and Becca may be flying separately from J&M in the "truck"
> this year. Remember J's lament about how "full" Atlas was going to last
> year's AirVenture? And there is always the "shipping home" of the dirty
> laundry to make room for the new acquisitions.

I think it'll be a few years before Joe tackles OSH. He's only flown three
times since he got his ticket last November, due to weather and scheduling
issues, so he's not at the top of his game anymore.

Although I flew with him last weekend, and he did fine.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven Barnes]

Now that I think about it, I've got a great plane for taking on OSH. Round
up a couple guys to split fuel. Tons of gear on board. Shoot, I could make
it there & back without refueling. Maybe this is the year...


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:td5vj.42942$yE1.5117@attbi_s21...
> > I think Joe and Becca may be flying separately from J&M in the "truck"
> > this year. Remember J's lament about how "full" Atlas was going to last
> > year's AirVenture? And there is always the "shipping home" of the dirty
> > laundry to make room for the new acquisitions.
>
> I think it'll be a few years before Joe tackles OSH. He's only flown
three
> times since he got his ticket last November, due to weather and scheduling
> issues, so he's not at the top of his game anymore.
>
> Although I flew with him last weekend, and he did fine.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Now that I think about it, I've got a great plane for taking on OSH. Round
> up a couple guys to split fuel. Tons of gear on board. Shoot, I could make
> it there & back without refueling. Maybe this is the year...

Heck, yeah! Shoot, do you have ANY idea how much BEER you can carry in that
thing???

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ray Andraka]

Steven Barnes wrote:
> Now that I think about it, I've got a great plane for taking on OSH. Round
> up a couple guys to split fuel. Tons of gear on board. Shoot, I could make
> it there & back without refueling. Maybe this is the year...
>
>

That it is. I brought mine last year for the first time (1965
PA-32-260) with two of my sons, and nearly a half ton of camping gear
and provisions, including a 130 can cooler filled with ice water, drinks
and refrigerated food, and 4 cases of bottled water (each weighing 41
lbs). Yeah, we over-packed just a bit. Hope to be there again this
year. We'll see you there maybe...Oh, and make sure you attend Jay's
pool party the saturday before OSH! I went some 400nm out of my way for
it (coming from New England), and will do it again.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> That it is. I brought mine last year for the first time (1965 PA-32-260)
> with two of my sons, and nearly a half ton of camping gear and provisions,
> including a 130 can cooler filled with ice water, drinks and refrigerated
> food, and 4 cases of bottled water (each weighing 41 lbs). Yeah, we
> over-packed just a bit. Hope to be there again this year. We'll see you
> there maybe...Oh, and make sure you attend Jay's pool party the saturday
> before OSH! I went some 400nm out of my way for it (coming from New
> England), and will do it again.

We just watched EAA's new video, showing Airventure, and I almost started to
cry. Twenty-five years of only good memories...

We start dreaming about Oshkosh in January each year, and the excitement
just builds incrementally until I can barely stand it by the last week of
July. It truly is the greatest show on earth...

Hope to see y'all there!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>> See Jay, Size DOES matter. :-) Mary telling you any different
>>> doesn't count!
>>>
>>> P.S. It's not just the girth...the length (of the cabin) is also
>>> something to envy. As is the second door (which passengers don't
>>> have to climb up on the wing to get into) and the front baggage
>>> compartment. Admit it Jay, you have Piper envy.
>>
>>
>> No, no, no, Ray. Only Cezzzna drivers have Piper envy!
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> About twice a year I would really, really like a Six. Oshkosh and Sun
>> N Fun, basically.
>>
>> The other 98 flights, hauling that pig around would truly be wasted on
>> our little family.
>
>
> Jay, probably 2/3rds of my flights are solo in the Six. Yeah, it is
> pulling around a lot of airframe to do that, but still cheaper than
> owning another airplane. Yup, I'm spoiled. Worth the 15% extra fuel
> burn to me.

One could always fly slower to get the fuel burn closer to a 4-pax
airplane, but does anyone every really do this?

Matt

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> One could always fly slower to get the fuel burn closer to a 4-pax
> airplane, but does anyone every really do this?

I always *say* I can do this, with our 6-cylinder O-540, and technically I
can. Shoot, I can lean it all the way back to 8 gph, and fly at C-150
speeds.

Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph. The only time I
throttle back to 10 gph is when I'm flying with friends in their 172s or
Warriors as a flight of 2 or 3. The rest of the time, I like to go
faster -- even though it makes little sense to do so.

Human nature, I guess. Or, just plain dumb...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Newps]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>
> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.


Ouch.

[Ray Andraka]

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>
>> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
>
>
>
> Ouch.

Jay, I thought book cruise fuel burn for a 235 was about 12 GPH. Why
are you burning 15? Book for my Six is 14 GPH, and I would be getting
that if I wasn't fighting the front two cylinders running so lean with
WOT. Sounds to me like a move up to a Six wouldn't be as painful as you
made it out to be the other day. So are we going to see you show up at
OSH in a six this year then?

[Steven Barnes]

Sure. I'll pick him up on my way... :-D

"Ray Andraka" > wrote in message
...
> Newps wrote:
> >
> >
> > Jay Honeck wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ouch.
>
> Jay, I thought book cruise fuel burn for a 235 was about 12 GPH. Why
> are you burning 15? Book for my Six is 14 GPH, and I would be getting
> that if I wasn't fighting the front two cylinders running so lean with
> WOT. Sounds to me like a move up to a Six wouldn't be as painful as you
> made it out to be the other day. So are we going to see you show up at
> OSH in a six this year then?

[Newps]

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ouch.
>
> Jay, I thought book cruise fuel burn for a 235 was about 12 GPH. Why
> are you burning 15? Book for my Six is 14 GPH, and I would be getting
> that if I wasn't fighting the front two cylinders running so lean with
> WOT. Sounds to me like a move up to a Six wouldn't be as painful as you
> made it out to be the other day. So are we going to see you show up at
> OSH in a six this year then?



Running 15 gph for a 235 hp engine is a colossal waste of gas at cruise
speed. My 285 hp engine(IO-520) gets 75% at 14 gph.

[Ray Andraka]

Newps wrote:

>
>
> Ray Andraka wrote:
>
>> Newps wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ouch.
>>
>>
>> Jay, I thought book cruise fuel burn for a 235 was about 12 GPH. Why
>> are you burning 15? Book for my Six is 14 GPH, and I would be getting
>> that if I wasn't fighting the front two cylinders running so lean with
>> WOT. Sounds to me like a move up to a Six wouldn't be as painful as
>> you made it out to be the other day. So are we going to see you show
>> up at OSH in a six this year then?
>
>
>
>
> Running 15 gph for a 235 hp engine is a colossal waste of gas at cruise
> speed. My 285 hp engine(IO-520) gets 75% at 14 gph.

Book burn for my 260 hp O-540 is 14 gph. Both mine and Jay's are
carbureted, so we end up with a wider spread between cylinders, which in
turn means we lean to the leanest cylinder and accept the fuel burns of
the others. I've currently got an issue I am trying to track down with
mine that is making the front two cylinders reach peak EGT some 270-300
degrees before the others, which in turn is making my fuel burn close to
19gph (no, it isn't an induction leak, we've pressurized the intake and
checked it, plus the problem is most noticible at WOT on cold days. If
it were an intake leak, it would be accentuated at lower throttle
settings rather than higher ones). Previously, I used to get EGT
spreads around 150 deg and was getting fuel burns pretty close to the
14gph book value. I don't know why Jay is burning 25% more than book,
and am curious if he knows why (or maybe it was a typo?).

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Previously, I used to get EGT spreads around 150 deg and was getting fuel
> burns pretty close to the 14gph book value. I don't know why Jay is
> burning 25% more than book, and am curious if he knows why (or maybe it
> was a typo?).

We normally fly at 23 squared, and lean back in order to keep EGTs within
100 degrees of each other, and under 1600 degrees. We try to keep CHTs
under 350 degrees. We usually cruise between 3500 and 6500 feet. At 3500
feet our FS-450 will indicate 15 gph at these settings.

At 6500 feet it will be closer to 14 gph.

Way back when, we calibrated the FS-450 to read "fat", in order to err on
the side of high fuel burn. I'd bet it's off by close to 1 gph, so we're
probably flying closer to 14 and 13 gph.

Can we lean back further? Sure.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> One could always fly slower to get the fuel burn closer to a 4-pax
>> airplane, but does anyone every really do this?
>
> I always *say* I can do this, with our 6-cylinder O-540, and technically
> I can. Shoot, I can lean it all the way back to 8 gph, and fly at C-150
> speeds.
>
> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.

Lean, grasshopper, lean!

Matt

[Ray Andraka]

John Smith wrote:

> In article <bVNvj.45975$yE1.32607@attbi_s21>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>>Way back when, we calibrated the FS-450 to read "fat", in order to err on
>>the side of high fuel burn. I'd bet it's off by close to 1 gph, so we're
>>probably flying closer to 14 and 13 gph.
>
>
> That seems counter productive.
> The purposes of having a fuel flow gauge is to accurately
> determine/present the fuel that is actually being consumed and exactly
> how much fuel remains. If you do not know either, how can you trouble
> shoot accurately?
> The FS-450 on the Cherokee Six that I fly is calibrated to 0.2 gph. It
> only required three cross country flights to get it set properly.
> The calibration can in handy when the right main fuel flot abandoned the
> rod to the sender unit in that tank.
> The return trip from Florida to Ohio was flown with reference to fuel
> burn to within one-half gallon remaining in each tank as indicated by
> the FS-450.
> It works that well.


Ditto, I've got mine calibrated to within a tenth or so as well, and it
only took one adjustment. It consistently is within a half gallon when
I empty the tanks and fill them.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
>
> Lean, grasshopper, lean!

Snort! That *is* leaned. At take-off, we'll be around 24+ gph...

:-)

I read about these LSAs flying around at 120 knots on 3 gph, and start
salivating.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Newps]

When operating properly in cruise lean of peak 14.9 times fuel flow
equals horsepower. So pick your desired percent HP and set the fuel
flow accordingly.
When ROP, HP is proportional to AIR (controlled by RPM and MP), and
changing the FF doesn't matter much.





Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> Do I? Hell, no! I cruise at 140 knots, at 15 gph.
>>
>> Lean, grasshopper, lean!
>
> Snort! That *is* leaned. At take-off, we'll be around 24+ gph...
>
> :-)
>
> I read about these LSAs flying around at 120 knots on 3 gph, and start
> salivating.

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-02-24, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> I read about these LSAs flying around at 120 knots on 3 gph, and start
> salivating.

Yeah. The Tecnam salesman I was flying the Bravo with was sure to point out
that it burned about 3.5 GPH at 4600 RPM and 105 KIAS. (I haven't seen
anyone claim 3 GPH for 120, but it won't be long before someone does, I'm
sure.)

Even 5.5 GPH for 115 KIAS in the Zodiac is a nice number...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> When operating properly in cruise lean of peak 14.9 times fuel flow equals
> horsepower. So pick your desired percent HP and set the fuel flow
> accordingly.
> When ROP, HP is proportional to AIR (controlled by RPM and MP), and
> changing the FF doesn't matter much.

We flew to Stevens Point, WI today, to visit Jim & Tami Burns. On the way
home, we cruised at 6500 feet, where we were able to maintain 21 inches of
manifold pressure. RPMs were set to 2300, and when leaned back our fuel
flow was 12.4 gph. Probably coulda got it lower, but our EGTs were nice
and even, less than 90 degrees apart, and everything was running nice and
smooth...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[WingFlaps]

On Feb 11, 12:53*pm, Ray Andraka > wrote:
> Congrats, You'll soon grow into it and will love it! *If you do lose the
> * engine, look straight down for a landing spot, because that is about
> as far as you'll get (actually about a 45 degree down cone is
> reachable). *It glides about like a brick. *Don't even try to make it
> back to the runway unless you have at least 1200 feet and have practiced it.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> What fuel flow/EGTs do you get when you run high MP/low RPM?

Define "high MP" and "Low RPM", please.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven Barnes]

Probably something like 24" and 2200 rpm (or some other "oversquare"
combination, which contrary to OWT may be allowed as per the POH), instead
of 22" and 2400 rpm.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:OlRAj.68149$yE1.27190@attbi_s21...
> > What fuel flow/EGTs do you get when you run high MP/low RPM?
>
> Define "high MP" and "Low RPM", please.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

How do you get 24" MP at 6500 MSL?

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
et...
> Probably something like 24" and 2200 rpm (or some other "oversquare"
> combination, which contrary to OWT may be allowed as per the POH), instead
> of 22" and 2400 rpm.
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:OlRAj.68149$yE1.27190@attbi_s21...
>> > What fuel flow/EGTs do you get when you run high MP/low RPM?
>>
>> Define "high MP" and "Low RPM", please.
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> How do you get 24" MP at 6500 MSL?
>
> Jim
>
Why, you hook up a tube to your intake, and continuously blow into it, of
course.

I thought everyone knew that! ;-))
--
Jim in NC

[Steven Barnes]

Point.

I was just giving an example of "oversquare". My Six POH tops out 6K at 23.7
inches @ 2300 RPM for 75% power. I haven't tried it yet.


"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> How do you get 24" MP at 6500 MSL?
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
> "Steven Barnes" > wrote in message
> et...
> > Probably something like 24" and 2200 rpm (or some other "oversquare"
> > combination, which contrary to OWT may be allowed as per the POH),
instead
> > of 22" and 2400 rpm.
> >
> > "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> > news:OlRAj.68149$yE1.27190@attbi_s21...
> >> > What fuel flow/EGTs do you get when you run high MP/low RPM?
> >>
> >> Define "high MP" and "Low RPM", please.
> >> --
> >> Jay Honeck
> >> Iowa City, IA
> >> Pathfinder N56993
> >> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> >> "Your Aviation Destination"
> >
> >
>
>

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Look at your engine operation chart in your POH and find the column that
> has the highest MP and the lowest RPM.
> For example.. the PA28-236 Dakota, O540-J3A5D
> 55% power, 5000 feet, 2100 RPM and 19.5"
> 65% power, 5000 feet, 2100 RPM and 21.9"
> 75% power, 5000 feet, 2200 RPM and 23.2"

Okay, I supposed I could do that, and dink around with it for a while -- but
why would I ruin a really nice flight recording my fuel flow at these
various settings?

:-)

Perhaps if I knew what you were trying to determine, it would help. What're
you looking for in this data?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> Perhaps if I knew what you were trying to determine, it would help. >
> What're you looking for in this data?

My guess is lower fuel flow, for the same airspeed.

As I recall, it is this type of over-square settings that Lindberg
pioneered, and using these settings allowed the P-38 to increase their range
significantly.
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> As I recall, it is this type of over-square settings that Lindberg
> pioneered, and using these settings allowed the P-38 to increase their
> range significantly.

Gotcha.

I think I've solved the "high fuel burn" problem, though. Montblack,
myself, and two other guys are going to buy an old Ercoupe, and enjoy
puttering around the sky burning 5 gph whenever we don't need to haul around
1500 pounds of stuff...

:-)

It'll give Joe something he can sort of afford to fly, too.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Ray Andraka]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> As I recall, it is this type of over-square settings that Lindberg
>> pioneered, and using these settings allowed the P-38 to increase their
>> range significantly.
>
>
> Gotcha.
>
> I think I've solved the "high fuel burn" problem, though. Montblack,
> myself, and two other guys are going to buy an old Ercoupe, and enjoy
> puttering around the sky burning 5 gph whenever we don't need to haul
> around 1500 pounds of stuff...
>
> :-)
>
> It'll give Joe something he can sort of afford to fly, too.

I was thinking an Aeronca Chief myself.

[Margy Natalie]

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>> As I recall, it is this type of over-square settings that Lindberg
>>> pioneered, and using these settings allowed the P-38 to increase
>>> their range significantly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gotcha.
>>
>> I think I've solved the "high fuel burn" problem, though. Montblack,
>> myself, and two other guys are going to buy an old Ercoupe, and enjoy
>> puttering around the sky burning 5 gph whenever we don't need to haul
>> around 1500 pounds of stuff...
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> It'll give Joe something he can sort of afford to fly, too.
>
>
> I was thinking an Aeronca Chief myself.
Quicksilver on floats for me.

Margy

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> I think I've solved the "high fuel burn" problem, though. Montblack,
> myself, and two other guys are going to buy an old Ercoupe, and enjoy
> puttering around the sky burning 5 gph whenever we don't need to haul
> around 1500 pounds of stuff...

Cool! I like Ercoupes. They got plenty of personality, and style, too.

Just think; putting along at less than 5 gph, with the windows rolled
down... zipping along at 1000 feet agl, smelling the corn growing, and the
cows farting... Oops, shoulda' left out that last part! <g>

Now, if you could get a amphibious pair of floats, you could drop in on a
lake and take a dip, too. That would be really stylin'! :-)
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Cool! I like Ercoupes. They got plenty of personality, and style, too.
>
> Just think; putting along at less than 5 gph, with the windows rolled
> down... zipping along at 1000 feet agl, smelling the corn growing, and the
> cows farting... Oops, shoulda' left out that last part! <g>

I filled "The Grape" a few days ago, and it was over $200 -- for CAR gas.

Right then I realized that burning 12 - 24 gph (depending on phase of
flight) was stupid -- especially when all I really want to do is FLY. Most
of our flights I'm just buzzing to Iowa airports, dropping off hotel
promotional stuff, and having fun. Why in the world would I want to go
(relatively) fast, and haul 1500 pounds around all the time?

An Ercoupe, with a few partners (most of whom also have "traveling
machines") will cost less than a motorcycle, and offer a whole bunch 'o fun!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <vbGCj.23049$TT4.17810@attbi_s22>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Right then I realized that burning 12 - 24 gph (depending on phase of
> flight) was stupid -- especially when all I really want to do is FLY. Most
> of our flights I'm just buzzing to Iowa airports, dropping off hotel
> promotional stuff, and having fun. Why in the world would I want to go
> (relatively) fast, and haul 1500 pounds around all the time?

What is the least fuel burn for Atlas? What is the fuel burn for 55% power?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> What is the least fuel burn for Atlas? What is the fuel burn for 55%
> power?

Oh, I know -- I can always pull the levers back and enjoy 7 gph...

But I can't hang my arm out the window in flight, or park in the antique
section at OSH, or fly into Antique Airfield in Blakesburg, or let my kid
fly it, or...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Margy Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> What is the least fuel burn for Atlas? What is the fuel burn for 55%
>> power?
>
>
> Oh, I know -- I can always pull the levers back and enjoy 7 gph...
>
> But I can't hang my arm out the window in flight, or park in the antique
> section at OSH,

I assume one of you will fly the Ercoupe and the other Atlas? I know
for a fact you bring way too many people and stuff for a 'coupe.

Margy
or fly into Antique Airfield in Blakesburg, or let my
> kid fly it, or...
>
> :-)

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I assume one of you will fly the Ercoupe and the other Atlas? I know
> for a fact you bring way too many people and stuff for a 'coupe.

Heck, yeah!

:-)

Just gotta find a good one. Montblack is on the hunt for us...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:co_Cj.77464$yE1.31247@attbi_s21...
>> I assume one of you will fly the Ercoupe and the other Atlas? I know for
>> a fact you bring way too many people and stuff for a 'coupe.
>
> Heck, yeah!
> :-)
>
> Just gotta find a good one. Montblack is on the hunt for us...

I know of one in the later stages of refurbishing. I don't know if it is
going to be for sale, or not, though.

You want for me to check on it for you? ;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> I know of one in the later stages of refurbishing. I don't know if it is
> going to be for sale, or not, though.
>
> You want for me to check on it for you? ;-)

Sure, Jim! That would be great...

(Sorry for the delayed response -- just returned from a 2500 mile, 16.5 hour
flight down to Florida. Pix to come!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[David Lesher]

"Jay Honeck" > writes:

>> You want for me to check on it for you? ;-)

>Sure, Jim! That would be great...

>(Sorry for the delayed response -- just returned from a 2500 mile, 16.5 hour
>flight down to Florida. Pix to come!)

Just wait until you get billed for the tax, Jay...
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433