Re: Russian Military Technology

[BUFDRVR]

>The best the Russians can do is hope for a chance hit on a helicopter with
>an RPG.
>

But you have to give them credit for that one....although its surface-to-air
capability was not part of the design and not discovered by the
Russians....maybe they don't deserve any credit. Maybe this is the key to
Russian military hardware, find alternative uses for it. Maybe a T-72 makes an
outstanding toaster oven? A MiG-29 as stero system? The possibilities are
nearly endless ;)


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[[email protected]]

While I am a 'Firefox' fan, I really don't believe you included it. I
suppose it really is a Western design to tell the truth anyway. A
British author created Firefox, then Clint Eastwood, 'brought her to
life'. (Still wish he would've done 'Firefox Down", too, tho.) Even the
full size mockup uses American F-4 Phantom parts! If you're going this
route, I bet Blue Thunder could really smoke a Hokum's ass & Airwolf
could smoke a MiG-29 or Su-37! After all, Airwolf took out MiG-23s/27s &
Mirages routinely, 'cause I saw it on TV & TV's been around a LOT longer
than the 'net, so I KNOW it's true! You've left out a few other
fictional Soviet stuff too, like the 'Hellhound' gunship helo, 'Red
October' sub that I know of.

[Krztalizer]

and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all this...?

Never mind - we already know.

Gordon

[Scott Ferrin]

On 03 Jan 2004 13:45:24 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>The best the Russians can do is hope for a chance hit on a helicopter with
>>an RPG.
>>
>
>But you have to give them credit for that one....although its surface-to-air
>capability was not part of the design and not discovered by the
>Russians....maybe they don't deserve any credit. Maybe this is the key to
>Russian military hardware, find alternative uses for it. Maybe a T-72 makes an
>outstanding toaster oven? A MiG-29 as stero system? The possibilities are
>nearly endless ;)
>
>
>BUFDRVR
>
>"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
>everyone on Bear Creek"


If you dropped a T-72 from a plane it would make a pretty good KE
weapon but with it's lack of aerodynamics it would be all over the
place so I guess it wouldn't even make a good bomb. I suppose you
could dump it in the ocean and use it for a corel reef or melt it down
and use it for something useful.

[WaltBJ]

Every now and then I waste a little time wondering what will happen
when someone puts electrical power back on the ships of the Russian
navy or the Black Sea Fleet. There was one picture I saw that made me
feel sorry for the Russian Air Force - MiG29s with tarps tied around
them parked on pavement with weeds three feet high growing in the
cracks in the concrete. Getting those babies airworthy again will take
some hard work.
Walt BJ

[Krztalizer]

<snip "Ode to the RPG">

Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember that it
is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the Russian
war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?

>So this weapon has been holding its own 40 years, and if anything it's
>getting more powerful, more effective.

Try 60+ years for the basic design.

Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[Tank Fixer]

In article >, waltbj01
@mindspring.com says...
> Every now and then I waste a little time wondering what will happen
> when someone puts electrical power back on the ships of the Russian
> navy or the Black Sea Fleet. There was one picture I saw that made me
> feel sorry for the Russian Air Force - MiG29s with tarps tied around
> them parked on pavement with weeds three feet high growing in the
> cracks in the concrete. Getting those babies airworthy again will take
> some hard work.
> Walt BJ
>

How long would it take to smelt them all down and build some real aircraft
from them ?


--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
Tank Fixer > wrote:

> In article >, waltbj01
> @mindspring.com says...
> > Every now and then I waste a little time wondering what will happen
> > when someone puts electrical power back on the ships of the Russian
> > navy or the Black Sea Fleet. There was one picture I saw that made me
> > feel sorry for the Russian Air Force - MiG29s with tarps tied around
> > them parked on pavement with weeds three feet high growing in the
> > cracks in the concrete. Getting those babies airworthy again will take
> > some hard work.
>
> How long would it take to smelt them all down and build some real aircraft
> from them ?

Well, since they seem to have been designed for use as target drones,
just slap a good R/C unit on them and get in some parctice.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Kevin Brooks]

"Chad Irby" > wrote in message
. com...
> In article >,
> Tank Fixer > wrote:
>
> > In article >, waltbj01
> > @mindspring.com says...
> > > Every now and then I waste a little time wondering what will happen
> > > when someone puts electrical power back on the ships of the Russian
> > > navy or the Black Sea Fleet. There was one picture I saw that made me
> > > feel sorry for the Russian Air Force - MiG29s with tarps tied around
> > > them parked on pavement with weeds three feet high growing in the
> > > cracks in the concrete. Getting those babies airworthy again will take
> > > some hard work.
> >
> > How long would it take to smelt them all down and build some real
aircraft
> > from them ?
>
> Well, since they seem to have been designed for use as target drones,
> just slap a good R/C unit on them and get in some parctice.

Even a target drone is not of much use if it only exhibits a 40 or 50% OR
rate--hard to shoot that puppy down if you can't get it up in the first
place. :)

Brooks
>
> --
> cirby at cfl.rr.com
>
> Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
> Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Felger Carbon]

\"WaltBJ" > wrote in message
om...
> MiG29s with tarps tied around
> them parked on pavement with weeds three feet high growing in the
> cracks in the concrete.

Walt, I've never been able to figure out why Su-27 Flankers are
considered such hot stuff, but AFAIK the Mig-29 is not well regarded
by anyone, even the Russkys. Wha? They are close to being the same
airframe!

[Felger Carbon]

> wrote in message
...
>Airwolf
> could smoke a MiG-29 or Su-37! After all, Airwolf took out
MiG-23s/27s &
> Mirages routinely, 'cause I saw it on TV & TV's been around a LOT
longer
> than the 'net, so I KNOW it's true!

Ah, yes, Airwolf. I wuz always impressed as hell by that supersonic
helicopter. I wonder what its RCS was at mach 2? ;-)

[B2431]

>From: "Felger Carbon"
>Date: 1/3/2004 10:13 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: . net>
>
> wrote in message
...
>>Airwolf
>> could smoke a MiG-29 or Su-37! After all, Airwolf took out
>MiG-23s/27s &
>> Mirages routinely, 'cause I saw it on TV & TV's been around a LOT
>longer
>> than the 'net, so I KNOW it's true!
>
>Ah, yes, Airwolf. I wuz always impressed as hell by that supersonic
>helicopter. I wonder what its RCS was at mach 2? ;-)
>

Don't forget it could hover at 80kilofeet, was bullet proof, carried an
unlimited supply of sidewinders, mavericks, hellfire, etc.

On the other hand Blue Thunder had whisper mode.


Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[fudog50]

Hilarious!!
All you guys got some very funny stuff! Thats why I keep coming back!
It's like comedy. Especially when the former eastern bloc guys keep
coming up with this "mine is better than yours" crap! LOL

[Alejandro Magno]

"Schelkunchik" > wrote in message news:<3eLJb.16403

> I'm not wasting anymore of my time on your
> links...Ekranoplan...bwahahahahahahahahah!
> Besides it looks like you are trying the ol fake out...without admitting
> that Russia sucks you try to divert attention away from your obvious screwup
> by bad mouthing the US.
>
> You could take the Argentinian military from the Falklands war and kick
> Russia's butt.
>
> Russia had to give up on its volunteer army I hear. They are trying to cover
> up the failure by saying the paid troops will be mixed in with the
> conscripts.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read this thread.

Magno

[Alejandro Magno]

wrote
> Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember that it
> is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the Russian
> war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?

Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.

Do you know who Von Braun was ?
Do you know who Fermi was ?
Do you know who Einsten was ?

Were they Americans ?

More information here: http://www.germancross.com

happy reading

Alejandro Magno

[Alejandro Magno]

wrote:
> and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all this...?
> Never mind - we already know.
> Gordon

America tried to steal Mig-15:
http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html

America stole Mig-25:
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html

America trying to buy Russian S-300 (the Patriot is only for
photograps, it does not work):
http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/05/28/6071.html

Do you know that B-2 and F-117 are based on Russian technology ? They
even said it in the History Channel.

So, if America technology is so superior why they have tried to buy or
steal Russian equipment.

What is going on with the Space Shuttle ? If it were not for the
Russians the astrounats in the International Space Station would have
died.

Are you one of these happy Americans
http://www.white-history.com/usafure.htm ?

Alejandro Magno

[Krztalizer]

>
>Are you one of these happy Americans
>http://www.white-history.com/usafure.htm ?
>
>Alejandro Magno

Are you self medicating? And why haven't you brought up the Kursk - its the
only conspiracy theory that you've left out of your tapestry of the ridiculous.

Gordon

[Jarg]

And your point is? Perhaps you don't know that the US is largely a nation
of immigrants and their descendants.

Jarg

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote
> > Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember
that it
> > is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the
Russian
> > war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?
>
> Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
> and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.
>
> Do you know who Von Braun was ?
> Do you know who Fermi was ?
> Do you know who Einsten was ?
>
> Were they Americans ?
>
> More information here: http://www.germancross.com
>
> happy reading
>
> Alejandro Magno

[Scott Ferrin]

On 3 Jan 2004 22:30:10 -0800, (Alejandro
Magno) wrote:

wrote:
>> and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all this...?
>> Never mind - we already know.
>> Gordon
>
>America tried to steal Mig-15:
>http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html


Yeah and? They even got hold of an early Yak jet. So what?



>
>America stole Mig-25:
>http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html


Actually, why would they need to?

http://www.af.mil/search/media.asp?mediaID=6928&mediaType=1




>
>America trying to buy Russian S-300 (the Patriot is only for
>photograps, it does not work):
>http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/05/28/6071.html


If the Patriot didn't work they'd just scrap the thing. There have
been things in the past that were duds and got canned. As far as
trying to buy S-300s it's not to USE the things, it's to know better
how to defeat them. BTW did you know the S-300 uses TVM in the
guidance which they copied from Patriot?



>
>Do you know that B-2 and F-117 are based on Russian technology ? They
>even said it in the History Channel.

It sounds like they managed to mangle things (no surprise there).
What happened was that there was a Russian mathmatician or physicist
(I don't recall which) who came up with a way to calculate radar
cross-sections. He even took the idea to the Russian air force but
they said "what do we need with that?". Then the US got hold of the
paper and said essentially "this is what you do with it". So a
Russian came up with the original math but that's it. The US took it
and ran with it.


>
>So, if America technology is so superior why they have tried to buy or
>steal Russian equipment.


To better know the other side. Both sides did it. It had to do both
with seeing what the other guy had and using any gold nuggets they
happened to find in the process. Either side would be stupid NOT to
do it.


>
>What is going on with the Space Shuttle ? If it were not for the
>Russians the astrounats in the International Space Station would have
>died.

You mean the Russian shuttle? It's a restraunt.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(Alejandro Magno) wrote:

> America stole Mig-25:

"Russian defects, brings MiG-25 with him."
"Americans not that impressed."

> http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Pete]

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
m...
> wrote:
> > and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all
this...?
> > Never mind - we already know.
> > Gordon
>
> America tried to steal Mig-15:
> http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html

That was a UN proposal.

>
> America stole Mig-25:
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html

That was one of your own pilots.

Pete

[[email protected]]

What RCS? Remember Airwolf has stealth qualities too!

[Ragnar]

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> wrote
> > Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember
that it
> > is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the
Russian
> > war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?
>
> Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
> and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.

And the Soviets captured German scientists and forced them to work for them.
Your point?

[Ragnar]

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
m...
> wrote:

> America stole Mig-25:
> http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!! Stole? Ha!!! After Belenko landed it in Japan, the
Japanese government gave it back to the Soviets 3 days later.

> America trying to buy Russian S-300 (the Patriot is only for
> photograps, it does not work):

Actually, the S-300 has NO combat record at all. Whereas the Patriot has
shot down at least 3 planes.

> So, if America technology is so superior why they have tried to buy or
> steal Russian equipment.

Always helps to know what the bad guys are up to. The Soviets also tried to
steal or buy US stuff. The difference is that we were better at it.

[Alejandro Magno]

"Jarg" > wrote in message >...
> And your point is? Perhaps you don't know that the US is largely a nation
> of immigrants and their descendants.
> Jarg

I know that very well. I have spent considerable time in America. My
point is that America is a European country in a different continent.

I do know how you can take this article, but seems interesting:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1382

Magno

[B2431]

(Alejandro Magno)
>Date: 1/4/2004 12:30 AM Central
>
wrote:
>> and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all this...?
>> Never mind - we already know.
>> Gordon
>
>America tried to steal Mig-15:
>http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html

You mean the the aircraft using a cloned Rolls Royce engine? Like the one
flown to South Korea by a North Korean pilot?

>America stole Mig-25:
>http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/11227_pilot.html

You mean the one a Soviet pilot flew to Japan?


>Do you know that B-2 and F-117 are based on Russian technology ? They
>even said it in the History Channel.

Next time you see that show please note they only used the Russian radiation
scatter data on the F-117.

And the Soviet space shuttle was a cheap knock off of the U.S. Space shuttle.

>So, if America technology is so superior why they have tried to buy or
>steal Russian equipment.
>

For the same reason the Soviets were, and the Russians are now, trying to
obtain U.S. weaponry: intelligence gathering.

Shall we talk about the Soviets copying solid state technology?

Shall we discuss the abyssmal safety records of the Soviet nuclear submarines?

How about Chernobyl?

How about stealing the plans for the atomic bomb?

Look, I won't deny the Soviets/Russians haven't come up with technology
superior to the U.S., but they really don't have an edge in anything anymore.

The Soviets were the first to put satellites into orbit, the first to put a man
into space, the first to put a woman into space etc, but their launchers and
capsule technology really hasn't changed since the 1960s.

Now look at the human costs of Soviet/Russian technology. A major lake that is
dying because they reversed the direction of the flow of a river. Rotting
submarines with leaking reactors. Parts of the country where children are still
being born with defects from nuclear and chemical testing. A long delay in
reconstruction after WW2 because Stalin HAD to have the atomic bomb. The list
goes on.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[B2431]

(Alejandro Magno)
>Date: 1/4/2004 12:16 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
wrote
>> Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember that
>it
>> is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the
>Russian
>> war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?
>
>Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
>and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.
>
>Do you know who Von Braun was ?
>Do you know who Fermi was ?
>Do you know who Einsten was ?
>
>Were they Americans ?
>
Yes they were. They became U.S. citizens.

The laser, transistor, polio vaccine etc were all invented by Americans.

Look, this could go on forever, but what's the point?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[B2431]

(Alejandro Magno)
>Date: 1/4/2004 3:59 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"Jarg" > wrote in message
>...
>> And your point is? Perhaps you don't know that the US is largely a nation
>> of immigrants and their descendants.
>> Jarg
>
>I know that very well. I have spent considerable time in America. My
>point is that America is a European country in a different continent.
>

And the Russias were settled by Vikings, South Asians, Mongols, Poles...etc

What exactly is your point?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Schelkunchik]

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> "Schelkunchik" > wrote in message news:<3eLJb.16403
>
> > I'm not wasting anymore of my time on your
> > links...Ekranoplan...bwahahahahahahahahah!
> > Besides it looks like you are trying the ol fake out...without admitting
> > that Russia sucks you try to divert attention away from your obvious
screwup
> > by bad mouthing the US.
> >
> > You could take the Argentinian military from the Falklands war and kick
> > Russia's butt.
> >
> > Russia had to give up on its volunteer army I hear. They are trying to
cover
> > up the failure by saying the paid troops will be mixed in with the
> > conscripts.
>
> Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read this thread.
>
> Magno

....but it's good for laughs!

[Thomas Schoene]

Felger Carbon wrote:

> Walt, I've never been able to figure out why Su-27 Flankers are
> considered such hot stuff, but AFAIK the Mig-29 is not well regarded
> by anyone, even the Russkys. Wha? They are close to being the same
> airframe!

No, they're somewhat close to the same aerodynamic shape but the actual
airframes are quite different. The MiG-29 is significantly smaller. The
FULCRUM's major limitation is its very short range compared to the FLANKER.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[BUFDRVR]

>Do you know who Von Braun was ?
>Do you know who Fermi was ?
>Do you know who Einsten was ?
>
>Were they Americans ?

Not born, but naturalized. They weren't dragged off in the middle of the night
by a NKVD team.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[BUFDRVR]

> My
>point is that America is a European country in a different continent.

Now-a-days, that is a very insulting statement. If the issue of Iraq isn't
enough to show the vast differences between Europeans and Americans, nothing
is.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[JasiekS]

U¿ytkownik "B2431" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
> (Alejandro Magno)
> >Date: 1/4/2004 12:16 AM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >

[snip...]

> >Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
> >and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.
> >
> >Do you know who Von Braun was ?
> >Do you know who Fermi was ?
> >Do you know who Einsten was ?
> >
> >Were they Americans ?
> >
> Yes they were. They became U.S. citizens.
>
> The laser, transistor, polio vaccine etc were all invented by Americans.
>
> Look, this could go on forever, but what's the point?
>
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

From http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1971/index.html

<cite>
The Nobel Prize in Physics 1971
"for his invention and development of the holographic method"
Dennis Gabor
United Kingdom
Imperial College London, United Kingdom
b. 1900 (in Budapest, Hungary)
d. 1979

</cite>

Regards
JasiekS
Warsaw, Poland

[BUFDRVR]

>America tried to steal Mig-15:

Not to copy, but to study. I hope you're intentionally being naive, otherwise
you're a very foolish person..

>America stole Mig-25:

Hardly, Belenko defected with one. Once again we wanted it to study, not copy.

>America trying to buy Russian S-300 (the Patriot is only for
>photograps, it does not work):

PAC III works fine, once again, our interest in Soviet military hardware is to
study how to defeat it, not copy it. When's the last time you saw the Soviets
or Russians produce something and then a very similar copy comes out in the
west? Never. I can't even count the western copied hardware in the Russian
military. Boy that Blackjack sure looks like a B-1B doesn't it?

>Do you know that B-2 and F-117 are based on Russian technology ?

I didn't think I could laugh that hard just by reading something. So where's
the Russian Air Force stealth platforms?

>So, if America technology is so superior why they have tried to buy or
>steal Russian equipment.
>

To exploit it....wow, you can't be this dense can you?

>What is going on with the Space Shuttle ? If it were not for the
>Russians the astrounats in the International Space Station would have
>died.

Hardly. If it had been life or death, NASA would have resumed shuttle flights
long enough to "rescue" those aboard the ISS. As it is, we don't have to
because of Russias capability to supply the ISS and swap out crews. But
remember the only reason the Russians are able to do this is because of
billions of US dollars and the simple fact that the Soviet Space Shuttle (plans
bought legally from US contractors) was considered dangerous and unreliable and
never flew with any living creatures on board. Doesn't speak much to your
vaunted Russian space industry huh? Oh, by the way, how many Soviets/Russians
have been killed in your space program? Hint, approximately twice what the US
has suffered.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(Alejandro Magno) writes:
> wrote
>> Before you get all excited about this "Soviet wonderweapon", remember that it
>> is nothing more than a modernized Panzerfaust 60. Thank goodness the Russian
>> war machine can build really good copies of captured German stuff, eh?
>
> Remember that American rocket technology, American nuclear reactors
> and American nuclear bombs were designed by Europeans.
>
> Do you know who Von Braun was ?

Yeah, the German guy who made bigger versions of Goddard's rockets.


> Do you know who Fermi was ?

Italian bloke, always hung about in the handball court at the
University in Chicago?

> Do you know who Einsten was ?
No, but I recall a guy name Einstein who hang around Princeton a lot.
>
> Were they Americans ?

An all cases, yes, in fact, they were. They came over, liked it here,
and applied for Citizenship.

It's worth noting that two of the three you mention above left their
"Native" nations due to their intense revulsion at the deirections
that those nations had taken.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[tadaa]

> >>The best the Russians can do is hope for a chance hit on a helicopter
with
> >>an RPG.
> >>
> >
> >But you have to give them credit for that one....although its
surface-to-air
> >capability was not part of the design and not discovered by the
> >Russians....maybe they don't deserve any credit. Maybe this is the key to
> >Russian military hardware, find alternative uses for it. Maybe a T-72
makes an
> >outstanding toaster oven? A MiG-29 as stero system? The possibilities are
> >nearly endless ;)

> If you dropped a T-72 from a plane it would make a pretty good KE
> weapon but with it's lack of aerodynamics it would be all over the
> place so I guess it wouldn't even make a good bomb. I suppose you
> could dump it in the ocean and use it for a corel reef or melt it down
> and use it for something useful.

T-72 was a good tank in it's time vs Leopard I's, M60's and early M1's.
After the Soviet Union fell there were slight cuts in military spending if
you didn't notice.

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:12:19 +0100, "JasiekS"
> wrote:


> From http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1971/index.html
>
> <cite>
> The Nobel Prize in Physics 1971
> "for his invention and development of the holographic method"
> Dennis Gabor
> United Kingdom
> Imperial College London, United Kingdom
> b. 1900 (in Budapest, Hungary)
> d. 1979
>
> </cite>

Holographs aren't lasers. Charles Townes, et al, got the Nobel for
the maser in the '60s. They were American.

And Von Braun pointed out that he learned about rocketry from Robert
Goddard, the father of modern rocketry. Another American.

Quick question, which is nothing to do with lasers or Nobels really:
Is it common in Poland to hear about the achievements of Poles who
succeed after leaving Poland for another country? I know Gabor is
Hungarian, so I'm not asking about him, but what about Pulaski, for
example?

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

Alejandro Magno wrote:
>
> My point is that America is a European country in a different continent.

Yes, but without most of the sense of greatness lost
(and senseless violence) that had been experienced
by their grandfathers in "the old country"...

[BOB URZ]

B2431 wrote:

> >From: "Felger Carbon"
> >Date: 1/3/2004 10:13 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: . net>
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >>Airwolf
> >> could smoke a MiG-29 or Su-37! After all, Airwolf took out
> >MiG-23s/27s &
> >> Mirages routinely, 'cause I saw it on TV & TV's been around a LOT
> >longer
> >> than the 'net, so I KNOW it's true!
> >
> >Ah, yes, Airwolf. I wuz always impressed as hell by that supersonic
> >helicopter. I wonder what its RCS was at mach 2? ;-)
> >
>
> Don't forget it could hover at 80kilofeet, was bullet proof, carried an
> unlimited supply of sidewinders, mavericks, hellfire, etc.
>
> On the other hand Blue Thunder had whisper mode.
>

Yes, but that infamous russian invention the freight train missile
took it out. Have the russians deployed it yet??

Bob

>
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[B2431]

>From: (BUFDRVR)
<snip>

Oh, by the way, how many Soviets/Russians
>have been killed in your space program? Hint, approximately twice what the US
>has suffered.
>
>
>BUFDRVR
>
A lot more than twice if you count that li'l rocket (N-1?) that blew up on the
pad. IIRC the death count was in the 60s.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Kevin Brooks]

"tadaa" > wrote in message ...
> > >>The best the Russians can do is hope for a chance hit on a helicopter
> with
> > >>an RPG.
> > >>
> > >
> > >But you have to give them credit for that one....although its
> surface-to-air
> > >capability was not part of the design and not discovered by the
> > >Russians....maybe they don't deserve any credit. Maybe this is the key
to
> > >Russian military hardware, find alternative uses for it. Maybe a T-72
> makes an
> > >outstanding toaster oven? A MiG-29 as stero system? The possibilities
are
> > >nearly endless ;)
>
> > If you dropped a T-72 from a plane it would make a pretty good KE
> > weapon but with it's lack of aerodynamics it would be all over the
> > place so I guess it wouldn't even make a good bomb. I suppose you
> > could dump it in the ocean and use it for a corel reef or melt it down
> > and use it for something useful.
>
> T-72 was a good tank in it's time vs Leopard I's, M60's and early M1's.
> After the Soviet Union fell there were slight cuts in military spending if
> you didn't notice.

You went a bit too far. It was generally inferior to the M60A3 TTS due to
the latter's better sight and fire control system. Likewise it was inferior
to the early M1's, which while they still had only the 105mm gun, had a much
better thermal imaging system. Add in the better vehicle protection and
greater speed, and even the early M1 was beyond the T-72's capabilities.

Brooks

>
>

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(Alejandro Magno) wrote:

> I know that very well. I have spent considerable time in America. My
> point is that America is a European country in a different continent.

Mr. Chang down at the deli was saying something very much like that the
other day, but Ms. Obiki was yelling too loud at her kids in Swahili for
me to follow his whole argument.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Alejandro Magno]

(BUFDRVR) wrote
> > My
> >point is that America is a European country in a different continent.
>
> Now-a-days, that is a very insulting statement. If the issue of Iraq isn't
> enough to show the vast differences between Europeans and Americans, nothing
> is.
> BUFDRVR

Sorry.

America is not an European country by all means. America has lower
standards of living.

Now, even Chile (in South America if you do not know) has a higher
standard of living than America:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1388

Alejandro Magno III

[Alejandro Magno]

(B2431) wrote
> And the Russias were settled by Vikings, South Asians, Mongols, Poles...etc
> What exactly is your point?
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


You really know History very well, are you sure you went to school in America ?

http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr25.htm
http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr32.htm
http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr40.htm

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Magno

[Alejandro Magno]

"Schelkunchik" wrote
> > Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read this thread.
> >
> > Magno
>
> ...but it's good for laughs!

I know that you are a very happy people, as your Detroit countrymen
http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwrdet.htm

Still funny ?

Magno

[James Hart]

Mary Shafer wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:12:19 +0100, "JasiekS"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> From http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1971/index.html
>>
>> <cite>
>> The Nobel Prize in Physics 1971
>> "for his invention and development of the holographic method"
>> Dennis Gabor
>> United Kingdom
>> Imperial College London, United Kingdom
>> b. 1900 (in Budapest, Hungary)
>> d. 1979
>>
>> </cite>
>
> Holographs aren't lasers. Charles Townes, et al, got the Nobel for
> the maser in the '60s. They were American.
>
> And Von Braun pointed out that he learned about rocketry from Robert
> Goddard, the father of modern rocketry. Another American.
>
> Quick question, which is nothing to do with lasers or Nobels really:
> Is it common in Poland to hear about the achievements of Poles who
> succeed after leaving Poland for another country? I know Gabor is
> Hungarian, so I'm not asking about him, but what about Pulaski, for
> example?

That would be the score for any ex-pat Brits. People like Michael Foale are
always tagged as 'British born...' whenever the UK media mentions them in a
story.

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(Alejandro Magno) wrote:

> Sorry.
>
> America is not an European country by all means. America has lower
> standards of living.

Says who?

Another of those European-based "we consider higher taxes and lower
income to be good" things again?

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
(Alejandro Magno) wrote:

> You really know History very well, are you sure you went to school in
> America ?
> http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr25.htm
> http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr32.htm
> http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr40.htm
>
> Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Man... quoting a Nazi site? You're just plain insane, dude.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Schelkunchik]

El Stupido "Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> "Schelkunchik" wrote
> > > Nobody is putting a gun to your head to read this thread.
> > >
> > > Magno
> >
> > ...but it's good for laughs!
>
> I know that you are a very happy people, as your Detroit countrymen
> http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwrdet.htm
>
> Still funny ?
>
> Magno

Are you a Parmalat employee? Maybe a Fiat employee?

That would explain all your free time.

[Keith Willshaw]

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> (BUFDRVR) wrote
> > > My
> > >point is that America is a European country in a different continent.
> >
> > Now-a-days, that is a very insulting statement. If the issue of Iraq
isn't
> > enough to show the vast differences between Europeans and Americans,
nothing
> > is.
> > BUFDRVR
>
> Sorry.
>
> America is not an European country by all means. America has lower
> standards of living.
>
> Now, even Chile (in South America if you do not know) has a higher
> standard of living than America:
> http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1388

The national vanguard is about as reputable a source as
Der Sturmer

More reliable sources provide a quite different picture
although defining the basis for measurement is rather
a difficult task. None of the surveys I have seen place
Chile above the USA.

Reviewing a few key statistics this is unsurprising

Chile
Infant Moratlity Rate 8.88 deaths/1,000 live births
Life Expectancy total population: 76.35 years
Population Below Poverty line 21%
GDP per Capita $10,100

USA
Infant Mortality Rate total: 6.75 deaths/1,000 live births
Life Expectancy total population: 77.14 years
Populataion below poverty line 12.7%
GDP per Capita $36,300

Keith

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Keith Willshaw" > wrote:

> "Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
> om...

> > Now, even Chile (in South America if you do not know) has a higher
> > standard of living than America:
> > http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1388
>

> Reviewing a few key statistics this is unsurprising
>
> Chile
> Infant Moratlity Rate 8.88 deaths/1,000 live births
> Life Expectancy total population: 76.35 years
> Population Below Poverty line 21%
> GDP per Capita $10,100
>
> USA
> Infant Mortality Rate total: 6.75 deaths/1,000 live births
> Life Expectancy total population: 77.14 years
> Populataion below poverty line 12.7%
> GDP per Capita $36,300

....and since "poverty line" is relative, that means the *average* person
in Chile is well below the poverty line in the US...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Jarg]

How funny. The statistics don't back up your contention at all. And for
what it's worth, after living in both Europe and the United States I can
tell you I greatly prefer the US.

Jarg

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> (BUFDRVR) wrote
> > > My
> > >point is that America is a European country in a different continent.
> >
> > Now-a-days, that is a very insulting statement. If the issue of Iraq
isn't
> > enough to show the vast differences between Europeans and Americans,
nothing
> > is.
> > BUFDRVR
>
> Sorry.
>
> America is not an European country by all means. America has lower
> standards of living.
>
> Now, even Chile (in South America if you do not know) has a higher
> standard of living than America:
> http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=1388
>
> Alejandro Magno III

[tadaa]

> > T-72 was a good tank in it's time vs Leopard I's, M60's and early M1's.
> > After the Soviet Union fell there were slight cuts in military spending
if
> > you didn't notice.
>
> You went a bit too far. It was generally inferior to the M60A3 TTS due to
> the latter's better sight and fire control system. Likewise it was
inferior
> to the early M1's, which while they still had only the 105mm gun, had a
much
> better thermal imaging system. Add in the better vehicle protection and
> greater speed, and even the early M1 was beyond the T-72's capabilities.

I wasn't trying to say it was the greatest tank of that era it wasn't even
the top notch Soviet tank. But it could have given Western tanks decent
fight.
M60 still had kinda thin armor and I'm not sure about early M1's armor
either against KE. A lot would on what kinda ammo T-72's would have. Can't
really remember what ammo they had at any given year. But a 125mm with DU
rod would have caused a few nasty moments. Its fire control and night
fighting cababilities were the ones most lagging behind, but they were still
usable.
A lot would depend on what versions the tanks would be, but I'd still
consider T-72 a decent tank for its time.

[Alejandro Magno]

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message
> PAC III works fine, once again, our interest in Soviet military hardware is to
> study how to defeat it, not copy it. When's the last time you saw the Soviets
> or Russians produce something and then a very similar copy comes out in the
> west? Never. I can't even count the western copied hardware in the Russian
> military. Boy that Blackjack sure looks like a B-1B doesn't it?


See how "happy" Americans were bad mouthing Tu-160 Blackjack until the
poster in message 58 made a good comparison between them, few messages
later, the "happy" americans gave up. I do not want to repeat the same
conversation, see the results here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/984847/posts

More here: http://mustangman5.netfirms.com/rplanes.html
"That's the TU-160 Blackjack. It looks almost identical to the Western
B1A bomber. However, the blackjack is over 25% bigger than the B1A,
and can acheive the same speed, and a higher payload, you have to give
credit for that. The largest of everything is usually Russian"

Happy ?

Magno

[Krztalizer]

>
>Happy ?
>
>Magno
>

Magno, aren't you due back at the clinic by nightfall...?

[Thomas Schoene]

BUFDRVR wrote:
>
>> Do you know that B-2 and F-117 are based on Russian technology ?
>
> I didn't think I could laugh that hard just by reading something. So
> where's the Russian Air Force stealth platforms?

There's a small kernel of truth here. The equations used to calculate radar
cross-section (a necessary pre-requisite for reliable stealth design) were
in fact developed by a Russian mathematician. But their value was not
recognized until a Lockheed engineer read the article and realized that they
finally had the computing power (just barely) needed to actually do the
calculations.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

[Scott Ferrin]

On 4 Jan 2004 18:22:29 -0800, (Alejandro
Magno) wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message
>> PAC III works fine, once again, our interest in Soviet military hardware is to
>> study how to defeat it, not copy it. When's the last time you saw the Soviets
>> or Russians produce something and then a very similar copy comes out in the
>> west? Never. I can't even count the western copied hardware in the Russian
>> military. Boy that Blackjack sure looks like a B-1B doesn't it?
>
>
>See how "happy" Americans were bad mouthing Tu-160 Blackjack until the
>poster in message 58 made a good comparison between them, few messages
>later, the "happy" americans gave up. I do not want to repeat the same
>conversation, see the results here:
>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/984847/posts
>
>More here: http://mustangman5.netfirms.com/rplanes.html
>"That's the TU-160 Blackjack. It looks almost identical to the Western
>B1A bomber. However, the blackjack is over 25% bigger than the B1A,
>and can acheive the same speed, and a higher payload, you have to give
>credit for that. The largest of everything is usually Russian"
>
>Happy ?



You left out the part where they claimed the US copied the Mig-25 when
they designed the F-15. This despite the fact that Mikoyan himself
wanted to start with the A-5 Vigilante (a US design) as a starting
point when designed the Mig-25. And lets not forget the F-108 that
the Mig-25 also resembles.



Here's an even better one:

Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1054.21
km/h

Date of flight: 17/09/1987
Pilot: H. Brent HEDGPETH (USA)
Crew: Robert A. CHAMBERLAIN (copilot)
Course/place: Palmdale, CA (USA)

Aircraft:
Rockwell B-1B (4 General Electric F 101-GE-102, 14 700 kg each)
Registered 'S/N70'



Speed over a closed circuit of 5000 km with 30000 kg payload : 1017.80
km/h

Date of flight: 28/05/1990
Pilot: Serguei OSSIPOV (USSR)
Crew: D.N. MATVEEV (USSR)
Course/place: Podmoskovnoe Aerodrome (USSR)

Aircraft:
Tupolev Aircraft "70N-304" (Tupolev TU-160 "Blackjack") (4 Model "P",
25 000 kg each)



Hmmm. The Blackjack had lower performance despite it being 25% bigger
and I'm sure they did everything they could to beat the B-1b's record
since the B-1's record already existed.

Happy?

[BUFDRVR]

>"That's the TU-160 Blackjack. It looks almost identical to the Western
>B1A bomber.

Because the design is a direct copy.

>However, the blackjack is over 25% bigger than the B1A,
>and can acheive the same speed, and a higher payload, you have to give
>credit for that.

According to Russian Bear Bomber crews, its mission capability rate is around
25%, and that was in 1995! Can't imagine how bad it is today.

>The largest of everything is usually Russian"

Because you're microprocessing capability and aircraft framing material is so
poor, it has to be.

>Happy ?

Extremely, your posts always bring a smile to my face.

>Magno

Are you sure you're spelling this right? Shouldn't it be M-O-N-G-O ?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Krztalizer]

>
>>Magno
>
>Are you sure you're spelling this right? Shouldn't it be M-O-N-G-O ?
>
>

I was thinking M-E-N-S-O, personally.

[Dave Kearton]

"Krztalizer" > wrote in message
...
| >
| >>Magno
| >
| >Are you sure you're spelling this right? Shouldn't it be M-O-N-G-O ?
| >
| >
|
| I was thinking M-E-N-S-O, personally.




It's that time again ?????






Cheers


Dave Kearton

[B2431]

(Alejandro Magno)
>Date: 1/4/2004 8:22 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
(BUFDRVR) wrote in message
>> PAC III works fine, once again, our interest in Soviet military hardware is
>to
>> study how to defeat it, not copy it. When's the last time you saw the
>Soviets
>> or Russians produce something and then a very similar copy comes out in the
>> west? Never. I can't even count the western copied hardware in the Russian
>> military. Boy that Blackjack sure looks like a B-1B doesn't it?
>
>
>See how "happy" Americans were bad mouthing Tu-160 Blackjack until the
>poster in message 58 made a good comparison between them, few messages
>later, the "happy" americans gave up. I do not want to repeat the same
>conversation, see the results here:
>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/984847/posts
>
>More here: http://mustangman5.netfirms.com/rplanes.html
>"That's the TU-160 Blackjack. It looks almost identical to the Western
>B1A bomber. However, the blackjack is over 25% bigger than the B1A,
>and can acheive the same speed, and a higher payload, you have to give
>credit for that. The largest of everything is usually Russian"
>
>Happy ?
>
>Magno
>

The problem with speaking in absolutes as you have is it only takes one example
ot prove you wrong.

Biggest piston driven bomber = B-36

Biggest suspension bridge = in Japan

Biggest aircraft carrier = U.S. Navy

Geeze, make your point already.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[B2431]

>From: "Schelkunchik"

>Are you a Parmalat employee? Maybe a Fiat employee?
>
>That would explain all your free time.
>

Fiat = fix it again, Tony

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Andrew Chaplin]

B2431 wrote:
>
> >From: "Schelkunchik"
>
> >Are you a Parmalat employee? Maybe a Fiat employee?
> >
> >That would explain all your free time.
> >
>
> Fiat = fix it again, Tony

Or "Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation".
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[JasiekS]

Uzytkownik "Mary Shafer" > napisal w wiadomosci
...
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:12:19 +0100, "JasiekS"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > From http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1971/index.html
> >
> > <cite>
> > The Nobel Prize in Physics 1971
> > "for his invention and development of the holographic method"
> > Dennis Gabor
> > United Kingdom
> > Imperial College London, United Kingdom
> > b. 1900 (in Budapest, Hungary)
> > d. 1979
> >
> > </cite>
>
> Holographs aren't lasers. Charles Townes, et al, got the Nobel for
> the maser in the '60s. They were American.
>
> And Von Braun pointed out that he learned about rocketry from Robert
> Goddard, the father of modern rocketry. Another American.

Mary, I don't want to underestimate US scientific potential appearing in
MANY Nobel prizes, inventions new ideas etc. Even if some of these
inventions were made by immigrants (naturalised or not); they might have no
possibility to make his inventions elsewhere. I prefere to think abut
progress as cumulated effort.

Rockets do not originate from Wernher von Braun or Robert Goddard (1926).
Somewhere on the road are plenty talented people from different nations like
Ciolkowsky (BTW of Polish descent; in Poland and Russia he is meant as
father of modern rocketry) with his fundamental work from 1903, Korolyev who
went from rocketplane (1939) to Vostoks, Jozef Bem (born 1794 died 1850;
Polish artillery general, who experimented with black powder powered rockets
and finally wrote tractat on them) but Chinese were loooong before!
Similar situation was with Wright brothers. They DID make (in my opinion)
the first controlled flight on powered heavier-than-air vehicle, but they DO
NOT lived in vacuum. They exchanged opinions with Langley and others, they
researched works by Cayley and others and they knew (I am sure) about
previous attempts.

>
> Quick question, which is nothing to do with lasers or Nobels really:
> Is it common in Poland to hear about the achievements of Poles who
> succeed after leaving Poland for another country? I know Gabor is
> Hungarian, so I'm not asking about him, but what about Pulaski, for
> example?

Of course, we (Poles) keep record of all achievements made by Polish-born
worldwide. Pulaski and Kosciuszko are Polish and American heros. Jozef Bem
was Polish and Hungarian (1848 uprising) hero. Strzelecki explored Australia
(Mt Kosciuszko), Bronislaw Malinowski explored Triobriand Islands in Oceania
(his book 'Sex life of wild people' is one of best known), Ignacy Domeyko is
one of most famous Poles in South America etc., etc. Of course we did not
forget Pola Negri (vel Apolonia Chalupiec), Helena Modjeska (vel Helena
Modrzejewska), Maria Curie (Maria Sklodowska-Curie for Poles) etc. The last
lady made ALL her works in France, but we treat her Nobels as Polish ones. I
could write much more examples, but this is sufficient OT.

> Mary
>
> --
> Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
>

Regards
JasiekS
Warsaw, poland

[Alejandro Magno]

(B2431) wrote
> And the Russias were settled by Vikings, South Asians, Mongols, Poles...etc
> What exactly is your point?
> Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Vikings in Mother Russia ? You are completly right.

Some great references here:

http://www.vikingposters.com/posters1.html
http://www.skrewdriver.net/worldindex.html


Magno

[Alejandro Magno]

Andrew Chaplin wrote
> Or "Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation".

http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-browse_image.php?galleryId=14&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=14&offset=0&imageId=878&lang=en

Funny ?

Magno

[Andrew Chaplin]

Alejandro Magno wrote:
>
> Andrew Chaplin wrote
> > Or "Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation".
>
> http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-browse_image.php?galleryId=14&sort_mode=created_desc&desp=14&offset=0&imageId=878&lang=en
>
> Funny ?

A picture may be worth a thousand words but, without context, those
thousand words are just so much babble.

FIAT, by the way, has never built a vehicle that could function either
reliably or adequately in the Canadian winter without being cosseted,
that's why we see them as feeble.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Alejandro Magno]

Chad Irby wrote
> > You really know History very well, are you sure you went to school in
> > America ?
> > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr25.htm
> > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr32.htm
> > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr40.htm
> > Thanks for refreshing my memory.
>
> Man... quoting a Nazi site? You're just plain insane, dude.

O.K. If you do not like http://www.stormfront.org/, you can go to this
different site: http://www.white-history.com

http://www.white-history.com/hwr25.htm
http://www.white-history.com/hwr32.htm
http://www.white-history.com/hwr40.htm

Magno

[Jarg]

Your choice of references says a lot about you, and from my perspective what
it says isn't very flattering.

Jarg

"Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
om...
> Chad Irby wrote
> > > You really know History very well, are you sure you went to school in
> > > America ?
> > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr25.htm
> > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr32.htm
> > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr40.htm
> > > Thanks for refreshing my memory.
> >
> > Man... quoting a Nazi site? You're just plain insane, dude.
>
> O.K. If you do not like http://www.stormfront.org/, you can go to this
> different site: http://www.white-history.com
>
> http://www.white-history.com/hwr25.htm
> http://www.white-history.com/hwr32.htm
> http://www.white-history.com/hwr40.htm
>
> Magno

[Alan Minyard]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:36:28 +0100, "JasiekS" > wrote:

>
>Uzytkownik "Mary Shafer" > napisal w wiadomosci
...
>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 15:12:19 +0100, "JasiekS"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>> > From http://www.nobel.se/physics/laureates/1971/index.html
>> >
>> > <cite>
>> > The Nobel Prize in Physics 1971
>> > "for his invention and development of the holographic method"
>> > Dennis Gabor
>> > United Kingdom
>> > Imperial College London, United Kingdom
>> > b. 1900 (in Budapest, Hungary)
>> > d. 1979
>> >
>> > </cite>
>>
>> Holographs aren't lasers. Charles Townes, et al, got the Nobel for
>> the maser in the '60s. They were American.
>>
>> And Von Braun pointed out that he learned about rocketry from Robert
>> Goddard, the father of modern rocketry. Another American.
>
>Mary, I don't want to underestimate US scientific potential appearing in
>MANY Nobel prizes, inventions new ideas etc. Even if some of these
>inventions were made by immigrants (naturalised or not); they might have no
>possibility to make his inventions elsewhere. I prefere to think abut
>progress as cumulated effort.
>
>Rockets do not originate from Wernher von Braun or Robert Goddard (1926).
>Somewhere on the road are plenty talented people from different nations like
>Ciolkowsky (BTW of Polish descent; in Poland and Russia he is meant as
>father of modern rocketry) with his fundamental work from 1903, Korolyev who
>went from rocketplane (1939) to Vostoks, Jozef Bem (born 1794 died 1850;
>Polish artillery general, who experimented with black powder powered rockets
>and finally wrote tractat on them) but Chinese were loooong before!
>Similar situation was with Wright brothers. They DID make (in my opinion)
>the first controlled flight on powered heavier-than-air vehicle, but they DO
>NOT lived in vacuum. They exchanged opinions with Langley and others, they
>researched works by Cayley and others and they knew (I am sure) about
>previous attempts.
>
>>
>> Quick question, which is nothing to do with lasers or Nobels really:
>> Is it common in Poland to hear about the achievements of Poles who
>> succeed after leaving Poland for another country? I know Gabor is
>> Hungarian, so I'm not asking about him, but what about Pulaski, for
>> example?
>
>Of course, we (Poles) keep record of all achievements made by Polish-born
>worldwide. Pulaski and Kosciuszko are Polish and American heros. Jozef Bem
>was Polish and Hungarian (1848 uprising) hero. Strzelecki explored Australia
>(Mt Kosciuszko), Bronislaw Malinowski explored Triobriand Islands in Oceania
>(his book 'Sex life of wild people' is one of best known), Ignacy Domeyko is
>one of most famous Poles in South America etc., etc. Of course we did not
>forget Pola Negri (vel Apolonia Chalupiec), Helena Modjeska (vel Helena
>Modrzejewska), Maria Curie (Maria Sklodowska-Curie for Poles) etc. The last
>lady made ALL her works in France, but we treat her Nobels as Polish ones. I
>could write much more examples, but this is sufficient OT.
>
>> Mary
>>
>> --
>> Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
>>
>
>Regards
>JasiekS
>Warsaw, poland
>

Goddard developed the first liquid fueled rocket, which is
critical to space flight. Solid fueled rockets have severe
limitations.

Al Minyard

[Alejandro Magno]

"Jarg" > wrote in message >...
> Your choice of references says a lot about you, and from my perspective what
> it says isn't very flattering

You just want to read what you like, and what your government wants you to read.

Are you an african-american ?

Read the site: http://www.white-history.com or are you afraid ?

The guys who wrote it is not american, he is from southafrica, he is white.

Magnus



> "Alejandro Magno" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Chad Irby wrote
> > > > You really know History very well, are you sure you went to school in
> > > > America ?
> > > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr25.htm
> > > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr32.htm
> > > > http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr40.htm
> > > > Thanks for refreshing my memory.
> > >
> > > Man... quoting a Nazi site? You're just plain insane, dude.
> >
> > O.K. If you do not like http://www.stormfront.org/, you can go to this
> > different site: http://www.white-history.com
> >
> > http://www.white-history.com/hwr25.htm
> > http://www.white-history.com/hwr32.htm
> > http://www.white-history.com/hwr40.htm
> >
> > Magno

[Alejandro Magno]

"Jarg" > wrote in message >...
> How funny. The statistics don't back up your contention at all. And for
> what it's worth, after living in both Europe and the United States I can
> tell you I greatly prefer the US.
>
> Jarg


Dependes what part of Europe you were in. If you were in Amsterdam,
London or Paris, sorry there are a lot of africans and asian --->
crappy cities.

America is beautful, but you guys do not have a clue what is going on
around

read from Pat Buchanan, buy his books. He is a real american.

Clinton did not go to Vietnam, but he said that he would go to Israel
and fight for it. But he did not fight for his country. Is he american
or israeli ?

Remenber the USS Liberty.

Magnus

[Alejandro Magno]

Andrew Chaplin wrote
> A picture may be worth a thousand words but, without context, those
> thousand words are just so much babble.

Well, here you have a picture with context and everything.
http://www.white-history.com/usafuture.htm

You asked for it.

Alessandro Magnus III.
Emperator of http://www.imperium-europa.org

[funkraum]

> (B2431) wrote:

(Alejandro Magno)
>>Date: 1/4/2004 12:30 AM Central
>>
wrote:
>>> and how much Western aid is required for Russia to accomplish all this...?
>>> Never mind - we already know.
>>> Gordon
>>
>>America tried to steal Mig-15:
>>http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html
>
>You mean the the aircraft using a cloned Rolls Royce engine? Like the one
>flown to South Korea by a North Korean pilot?
>

It was Lt No Kum-Sok of the DPRK (aka Dr Kenneth Rowe)

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap42no.htm

http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html


Stay tuned .... for he flies again ....