PZL 62 Aircraft Claim

[robert arndt]

http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG

A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
superior to the Spitfire.
What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
experience in Spain.
Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?

Rob

[Michael Williamson]

robert arndt wrote:
> http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG
>
> A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
> aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
> invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
> superior to the Spitfire.
> What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
> that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
> experience in Spain.
> Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?
>
> Rob

He's likely a kook. You get the same kind of kooks claiming that
(for instance) German aircraft were superior to allied aircraft,
that they designed and in some cases began building supersonic,
long range aircraft that would have allowed them to bomb the
United States, and stuff like that. Best to ignore them

Mike

[Greg Hennessy]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 10:16:05 -0700, Michael Williamson
> wrote:


> He's likely a kook. You get the same kind of kooks claiming that
>(for instance) German aircraft were superior to allied aircraft,
>that they designed and in some cases began building supersonic,
>long range aircraft that would have allowed them to bomb the
>United States, and stuff like that. Best to ignore them
>

ROFLMAO!



greg


--
Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland.
I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan.
You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide.

[Keith Willshaw]

"robert arndt" > wrote in message
om...
> http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG
>
> A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
> aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
> invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
> superior to the Spitfire.
> What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
> that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
> experience in Spain.
> Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?
>
> Rob

The PZL-62 was designed as a low wing cantilever monoplane, all-metal
fighter with a retractable undercarriage automatic slats and
integral tank inside wing. Armament consisted of eight machine-guns.

The designed top speed was around 650 km/hr which all other things
being equal would have made it competitive with the Spitfire 1 or
Me-109E.

However without an efficient command and control system they would
have been at a severe disadvantage and it seems unlikely that the
possession of a few squadrons of such aircraft would have materially
affected the course of the campaign.

Keith

[nemo l'ancien]

You make a war with the weapons you really have, not with those you plan
to have....

[robert arndt]

Michael Williamson > wrote in message >...
> robert arndt wrote:
> > http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG
> >
> > A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
> > aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
> > invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
> > superior to the Spitfire.
> > What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
> > that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
> > experience in Spain.
> > Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?
> >
> > Rob
>
> He's likely a kook. You get the same kind of kooks claiming that
> (for instance) German aircraft were superior to allied aircraft,
> that they designed and in some cases began building supersonic,
> long range aircraft that would have allowed them to bomb the
> United States, and stuff like that. Best to ignore them
>
> Mike

Yeah, kinda like some of the RAM kooks that don't believe the German
windtunnel data, thousands of tons of captured German documents and FE
(foreign equipment) flown at Wright Field/Patterson had ANYTHING to do
with the US postwar success in the space race and military aviation.
Point well taken... I ignore them too!

Rob

[Alan Minyard]

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 10:16:05 -0700, Michael Williamson > wrote:

>robert arndt wrote:
>> http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG
>>
>> A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
>> aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
>> invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
>> superior to the Spitfire.
>> What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
>> that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
>> experience in Spain.
>> Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?
>>
>> Rob
>
> He's likely a kook. You get the same kind of kooks claiming that
>(for instance) German aircraft were superior to allied aircraft,
>that they designed and in some cases began building supersonic,
>long range aircraft that would have allowed them to bomb the
>United States, and stuff like that. Best to ignore them
>
>Mike

Very well said :-))))

Al Minyard

[JasiekS]

U¿ytkownik "Emmanuel Gustin" > napisa³ w
wiadomo¶ci ...
> "robert arndt" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> > http://www.miramex.com.pl/jwsoft/1939/image/pzl62_01.JPG
>
> > A strange old Polish guy sent me a drawing of this basically unknown
> > aircraft and claimed that it would have swept the skies of the German
> > invaders if it were built. He further claimed it would have been
> > superior to the Spitfire.
>
> That is, if the Germans had been willing to wait until at
> least 1943 with their invasion. No P.62 was completed,
> development had started in March 1939.

Good said (unfortunately)...

> reached Poland before the invasion). The design did have
> its strong points, including a laminar flow wing.
>
> Sorry for the Poles, but the last months before the invasion
> were wasted in unbelievable chaos. After General Zajac
> (an infantryman) replaced Rayski as commander of the air
> force in March '39, he cancelled the only reasonably modern
> fighter under development (the P.50) and the best Polish
> bomber (the P.37);

Wrong. General Kalkus replaced Rayski as Comander of the Air Force. Zajac
was Inspector of the Air Force. Production of PZL-37 Los (the moos) was not
cancelled, but limited to 124 aircraft. It was result of changed doctrine
(less bombers, more fighters). The modernisation of Polish military aviation
was just started. The successor of PZL-37, PZL-49 Mis (the bear) was ready
for static tests in autumn of 1939. The successor of PZL-23/43 Karas (the
crucian carp) ground attack, PZL-46 Sum (the wels) made its maiden flight
1938 although flight tests were not finished. Heavy fighter PZL-38 Wilk (the
wolf) made its maiden flight in 1938, but was underpowered and to slow to
compete Me-110. Design of its successors PZL-48 Lampart and PZL P-54 Rys
started started but was not finished. Two Hurricane-like aircraft were
designed: PZL-45 Sokol (the falcon) was sheduled for mauden flight in
October 1939, PZL-50 (or PZL P-50) Jastrzab (the goshawk) made its maiden
flight in February 1939 and finished flight tests in August 1939 (so could
not be cancelled).

> the best he offered instead was a warmed-up P.11, the P.11g Kobuz.

There was also P-24, better than P-11 but basically of the same origin.
Ironically, more P-24 were built for export than for our aviation.

> The P.62 was little more than a dream.

That's right. Although there were more interesting projects and even
prototypes it was to late for Poland.

>
> > What is this guy talking about? The Me-109E was more than a match for
> > that obsolete looking crate and the German pilots already had
> > experience in Spain.
>
> > Now, what comments can I add regarding to the Spitfire claim?

Just ignore.

>
> That you should compare this beast to the Spitfire Mk.XIV,
> not the Mk.I, considering the time frame in which it could
> have been built.
>
> --
> Emmanuel Gustin
> Emmanuel.Gustin -rem@ve- skynet dot be
> Flying Guns Page: http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/
>

JasiekS
Warsaw, Poland

[Stephen Harding]

robert arndt wrote:

> Yeah, kinda like some of the RAM kooks that don't believe the German
> windtunnel data, thousands of tons of captured German documents and FE
> (foreign equipment) flown at Wright Field/Patterson had ANYTHING to do
> with the US postwar success in the space race and military aviation.

Given that the Russkies had the lead in the space race right up into
the late 60's, such equipment didn't seem to benefit the US much; at
least not in space.


SMH

[robert arndt]

Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> robert arndt wrote:
>
> > Yeah, kinda like some of the RAM kooks that don't believe the German
> > windtunnel data, thousands of tons of captured German documents and FE
> > (foreign equipment) flown at Wright Field/Patterson had ANYTHING to do
> > with the US postwar success in the space race and military aviation.
>
> Given that the Russkies had the lead in the space race right up into
> the late 60's, such equipment didn't seem to benefit the US much; at
> least not in space.
>
>
> SMH

I would hardly call saving the West a decade in aerospace research
non-beneficial. The windtunnel data alone is invaluable. The West got
much more documents and scientists than Russia did and it took years
to evaluate what was worth pursuing and what wasn't. The Russian
approach was different. The forced their captured scientists and
families to relocate to the USSR, virtually prisoners, and forced them
to work on the most cost-effective systems along with their Russian
counterparts. They had but one goal- beat the West.
In the end, however, the US beat them in the air and space with a lot
more experimentation with German designs than Russia could ever
afford. Only now in the 21st century are we getting away from
evolutionary designs that lead all the way back the Third Reich.

Rob

[Alan Minyard]

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 16:03:27 -0500, Stephen Harding > wrote:

>robert arndt wrote:
>
>> Yeah, kinda like some of the RAM kooks that don't believe the German
>> windtunnel data, thousands of tons of captured German documents and FE
>> (foreign equipment) flown at Wright Field/Patterson had ANYTHING to do
>> with the US postwar success in the space race and military aviation.
>
>Given that the Russkies had the lead in the space race right up into
>the late 60's, such equipment didn't seem to benefit the US much; at
>least not in space.
>
>
>SMH

Actually, the Soviets were killing launch crew and cosmonauts on a
continuing basis. They simply did not report the things that went "BOOM".

They never had a significant lead, if they had a lead at all.

Al Minyard