Pondering G430W upgrade...

[Doug Vetter]

All,

I'm still on the fence about doing the 430W upgrade. Money is tight as
always and I certainly haven't set the logbook on fire in the last couple
of years for various reasons. The upgrade is scheduled for late May and
I have the option of bailing on it without penalty, but at 50% off
current pricing it's a hard thing to turn down.

The most important thing to me is that it does not destabilize what I
consider to be the finest and most reliable navigational device I've ever
used. I've flown with the 430 in all weather...rain, snow, ice, etc. and
it's never failed to give me the course to fly.

I browsed Google groups but didn't really find any concise reviews of the
430W upgrade with the latest V3.0 software installed by service bulletin
740. Can anyone who has upgraded their box in the last few months and
shot some LPV approaches (translated: someone with real-world experience)
give a mini review?

I guess what I'm looking for is the simple acknowledgment that the box
actually does what is promised and doesn't have any critical bugs (BSOD,
etc.)

Thanks,

Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
http://www.dvatp.com/

[BillJ]

Doug Vetter wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm still on the fence about doing the 430W upgrade. Money is tight as
> always and I certainly haven't set the logbook on fire in the last couple
> of years for various reasons. The upgrade is scheduled for late May and
> I have the option of bailing on it without penalty, but at 50% off
> current pricing it's a hard thing to turn down.
>
> The most important thing to me is that it does not destabilize what I
> consider to be the finest and most reliable navigational device I've ever
> used. I've flown with the 430 in all weather...rain, snow, ice, etc. and
> it's never failed to give me the course to fly.
>
> I browsed Google groups but didn't really find any concise reviews of the
> 430W upgrade with the latest V3.0 software installed by service bulletin
> 740. Can anyone who has upgraded their box in the last few months and
> shot some LPV approaches (translated: someone with real-world experience)
> give a mini review?
>
> I guess what I'm looking for is the simple acknowledgment that the box
> actually does what is promised and doesn't have any critical bugs (BSOD,
> etc.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
> http://www.dvatp.com/
I can tell you, based on lots of 530W flying that it works perfectly.
You will love the LPV approaches, and other nice new features. I also
teach several students with 430 upgrades, same impression. No problems
after the V. 3 software

What is the 50% off deal. I got mine upgraded for the original $1500
price. What is the price now?


Bill Johnson, CFII

[Denny]

Doug, let me play the loyal opposition here...

So the hours are down...
The money is tight...
And you are asking for our 'blessing' on an expensive panel upgrade
that will sit in the hangar and depreciate...
hmmm..

In your situation, left to my druthers, I would rather the thousands
of dollars go into fuel flow, maybe go to Oshkosh, get aerobatic
training, or a balloon rating, or a sailplane rating, or a floatplane
rating... Or take my significant other on a flying trip across the
Rockies, Smokies, Plains, Keys, Carribean, where ever...

Anyway, you get my drift...

denny -
and Fat Albert the Apache

[Allen[_1_]]

"Denny" > wrote in message
...
> Doug, let me play the loyal opposition here...
>
> So the hours are down...
> The money is tight...
> And you are asking for our 'blessing' on an expensive panel upgrade
> that will sit in the hangar and depreciate...
> hmmm..
>
> In your situation, left to my druthers, I would rather the thousands
> of dollars go into fuel flow, maybe go to Oshkosh, get aerobatic
> training, or a balloon rating, or a sailplane rating, or a floatplane
> rating... Or take my significant other on a flying trip across the
> Rockies, Smokies, Plains, Keys, Carribean, where ever...
>
> Anyway, you get my drift...
>
> denny -
> and Fat Albert the Apache

I take it he already has the 430 - wants to do the upgrade to his unit
($1,500 ?).

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:24:24 -0600, "Allen" >
wrote:

>
>
>
>"Denny" > wrote in message
...
>> Doug, let me play the loyal opposition here...
>>
>> So the hours are down...
>> The money is tight...
>> And you are asking for our 'blessing' on an expensive panel upgrade
>> that will sit in the hangar and depreciate...
>> hmmm..
>>
>> In your situation, left to my druthers, I would rather the thousands
>> of dollars go into fuel flow, maybe go to Oshkosh, get aerobatic
>> training, or a balloon rating, or a sailplane rating, or a floatplane
>> rating... Or take my significant other on a flying trip across the
>> Rockies, Smokies, Plains, Keys, Carribean, where ever...
>>
>> Anyway, you get my drift...
>>
>> denny -
>> and Fat Albert the Apache
>
>I take it he already has the 430 - wants to do the upgrade to his unit
>($1,500 ?).

That's the physical upgrade cost to Garmin, that doesn't include
installation, post-install checking, installation of the new GPS
antenna, and upgrading the GPS cabling from the puck to the unit if
it's out of spec. That being said, from what I hear generally for one
430 install the upgrade is less than 3-4k all in.

[Allen[_1_]]

"Peter Clark" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:24:24 -0600, "Allen" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Denny" > wrote in message
...
>>> Doug, let me play the loyal opposition here...
>>>
>>> So the hours are down...
>>> The money is tight...
>>> And you are asking for our 'blessing' on an expensive panel upgrade
>>> that will sit in the hangar and depreciate...
>>> hmmm..
>>>
>>> In your situation, left to my druthers, I would rather the thousands
>>> of dollars go into fuel flow, maybe go to Oshkosh, get aerobatic
>>> training, or a balloon rating, or a sailplane rating, or a floatplane
>>> rating... Or take my significant other on a flying trip across the
>>> Rockies, Smokies, Plains, Keys, Carribean, where ever...
>>>
>>> Anyway, you get my drift...
>>>
>>> denny -
>>> and Fat Albert the Apache
>>
>>I take it he already has the 430 - wants to do the upgrade to his unit
>>($1,500 ?).
>
> That's the physical upgrade cost to Garmin, that doesn't include
> installation, post-install checking, installation of the new GPS
> antenna, and upgrading the GPS cabling from the puck to the unit if
> it's out of spec. That being said, from what I hear generally for one
> 430 install the upgrade is less than 3-4k all in.

So say the original install was around 8K, he is now going to have 12K tied
up in it. Ouch!

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

[Newps]

That's the starting cost. The "W" installation is many, many times more
problematical to get certified. The fact that you already have a 430
installed means nothing. Lots of owners end up installing new 406 ELT's
since the 121.5 ELT's interfere a lot with the new 430 and 530W
installs. Make sure you have a chat with your avionics shop before you
start.




Doug Vetter wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm still on the fence about doing the 430W upgrade. Money is tight as
> always and I certainly haven't set the logbook on fire in the last couple
> of years for various reasons. The upgrade is scheduled for late May and
> I have the option of bailing on it without penalty, but at 50% off
> current pricing it's a hard thing to turn down.
>
> The most important thing to me is that it does not destabilize what I
> consider to be the finest and most reliable navigational device I've ever
> used. I've flown with the 430 in all weather...rain, snow, ice, etc. and
> it's never failed to give me the course to fly.
>
> I browsed Google groups but didn't really find any concise reviews of the
> 430W upgrade with the latest V3.0 software installed by service bulletin
> 740. Can anyone who has upgraded their box in the last few months and
> shot some LPV approaches (translated: someone with real-world experience)
> give a mini review?
>
> I guess what I'm looking for is the simple acknowledgment that the box
> actually does what is promised and doesn't have any critical bugs (BSOD,
> etc.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI
> http://www.dvatp.com/

[Doug Vetter]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:23:18 -0500, BillJ wrote:
> What is the 50% off deal. I got mine upgraded for the original $1500
> price. What is the price now?

Current price is $3K (just for the hardware) because we're past the "cut-
off" that Garmin announced last year. I "registered" for the upgrade so
I locked it in at the lower price of $1500.

-Doug
http://www.dvatp.com/

[Doug Vetter]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:23:53 -0800, Denny wrote:
> Doug, let me play the loyal opposition here...
>
> So the hours are down...
> The money is tight...
> And you are asking for our 'blessing' on an expensive panel upgrade that
> will sit in the hangar and depreciate... hmmm..

I know what you mean, but I'm not really looking for a blessing...more of
a confirmation that Garmin has 1) weeded out the bugs and 2) the benefit
in the real world is worth the money. Sounds like from the other
responses that is the case.

-Doug
http://www.dvatp.com/

[dave]

Doug,
I had my 430 upgraded about a month ago in my Bonanza. Like you, I got
on Garmin's list for the $1500 price before it expired. My total cost
was more than most for two reasons. One, in a Bo there has to be an
additional annunciator installed because the 430W is too far from the
pilot's line of sight. Two, I have a sandel 3308 that required some
additional analog wiring. At the time my plane was in the shop I also
had an old inoperative ADF and antenna removed. Total bill was around
$3500.00. Not bad really. I saved some on labor because I had already
removed my interior panels for a shoulder harness install. There
weren't any problems. I've been trying for 4 weeks to fly with my
instructor and practice some LPV's but weather and our schedules aren't
cooperating. I was on the fence about the upgrade but I also
considered the fact that these radios will be around for a long time.
Not upgrading them for half price doesn't make much sense. What if
there's another upgrade down the road that requires the W upgrade?
When you sell your airplane, any savvy buyer will look at the W upgrade
as a plus. The last point for me was the terrain feature. My 430 did
not have the terrain option. It's standard on the 430.

Penn Avionics did the work for me. Very nice folks to work with.

Dave
M35

Doug Vetter wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:23:18 -0500, BillJ wrote:
>> What is the 50% off deal. I got mine upgraded for the original $1500
>> price. What is the price now?
>
> Current price is $3K (just for the hardware) because we're past the "cut-
> off" that Garmin announced last year. I "registered" for the upgrade so
> I locked it in at the lower price of $1500.
>
> -Doug
> http://www.dvatp.com/

[Denny]

>
> I know what you mean, but I'm not really looking for a blessing...more of
> a confirmation that Garmin has 1) weeded out the bugs and 2) the benefit
> in the real world is worth the money. Sounds like from the other
> responses that is the case.


OK, well if you really want too, then go for it...

cheers ... denny

[BillJ]

Doug Vetter wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:23:18 -0500, BillJ wrote:
>
>>What is the 50% off deal. I got mine upgraded for the original $1500
>>price. What is the price now?
>
>
> Current price is $3K (just for the hardware) because we're past the "cut-
> off" that Garmin announced last year. I "registered" for the upgrade so
> I locked it in at the lower price of $1500.
>
> -Doug
> http://www.dvatp.com/
My 530W upgrade was 1800 total, 1500 to Garmin, 300 was for the new
cable, antenna install and shipping. All done in one morning.
That is all. No certification problems

[Doug Vetter]

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:27:42 -0500, dave wrote:
> I had my 430 upgraded about a month ago in my Bonanza.
<snip>
> I was on the fence about the upgrade but I also
> considered the fact that these radios will be around for a long time.

True. The 430/530 are extremely popular and I can't see them being
discontinued or orphaned in any meaningful sense. This upgrade is itself
evidence of that fact. Wish I could say the same for the 480, but I
think we all saw that coming.

> When you sell your airplane, any savvy buyer will look at the W upgrade
> as a plus.

Given avionics investments typically yield 50% of the initial value upon
resale and the value of the upgrade is now $3000 I suppose I could look
at it as a wash. I should be able to get back a significant percentage
of the original cost at resale time.

> The last point for me was the terrain feature. My 430 did not have the
> terrain option. It's standard on the 430.

We didn't bother with the terrain upgrade when it became available
originally so we're in the same boat. If the terrain warning logic works
the same as it does in the 396 portable it should be a nice addition to
the cockpit.

My original concern was that the terrain warning logic would be too
"chatty" and distracting, but from a brief overview of the pilot's guide
it almost seems that the opposite is true. The PDA logic graph shows
that the unit will let you be as low as 350 AGL five miles away from the
airport before it gripes. Little scary if you ask me.

I'm curious about others' real world experience with the terrain feature.

> Penn Avionics did the work for me. Very nice folks to work with.

Yea, the team at Penn is great and our upgrade reservation is with them.
I've known Peter for a long time and he's always given us fair pricing.

He's quoting $1800 for the upgrade (reservation pricing from Garmin)
without new feedline, or $2200 otherwise. He did our original 430
installation back in 2003 so it's fairly recent, but I'm still foggy on
the feedline specs and whether we'll need to have the feedline replaced.
Guess I'll find out.

One additional cost for me is the new USB programmer, but I suppose I
would have had to upgrade to that eventually anyway as it's becoming more
difficult to find a PC-Card interface on laptops today and my five year
old laptop is just about done.

One perk of the upgrade in the 172 is that no annunciator is required so
we'll dodge that cost.

Doug
http://www.dvatp.com/

[dave]

Doug,
I don't have much time flying with it and no IR time at all but I have
played around with the terrain feature. You can display aviation data
on the terrain page but you can't display any of the data fields.
Since the data fields I use are duplicated on the sandel 3308, I can
leave the unit in terrain mode. Terrain mode also offers a limited
field of view, 120 degrees, which is nice. Have you downloaded the
latest simulator from Garmin? If not, give it a test drive. I think
you'll like it.

I don't think you can wrong by upgrading. Good luck.
Dave
M35

Doug Vetter wrote:
>
> My original concern was that the terrain warning logic would be too
> "chatty" and distracting, but from a brief overview of the pilot's guide
> it almost seems that the opposite is true. The PDA logic graph shows
> that the unit will let you be as low as 350 AGL five miles away from the
> airport before it gripes. Little scary if you ask me.
>

[pgbnh]

We just went through a 530 to 530W installation. Cost was about $2200 ($1500
to Garmin and remainder to avionics shop). Our 530 was paired with a KX155.
As a previous noter indicated, there are some issues with harmonics
generated from the ELT. There are certain frequencies that Garmin wants
checked (in the 121.xx range and 131.xx ranges). In our case, the 530 was
transmitting on an antenna that was about 30" from the ELT antenna.
Transmissions on certain frequencies caused harmonics to be generated by the
ELT which interfered with the GPS reception. Potentially this is
problematic - in our case our avionics tech was able to install a filter in
the elt antenna to eliminate the harmonics. Had the filter not worked, we
would likely have had to do a bunch of troubleshooting and probably relocate
certain antennas. Most important to find a competent avionics tech that you
trust. We did.

This all in a Beech Sierra



"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
>I have a 430W 530W installation- the added approaches are fun to fly and
>learn, and open up a lot more airports.
>
> Still wish Garmin didn't take the Nexrad overlay off of the main nav page
> for some reason, since it was very useful on the non-WAAS 530's.
>
> Certification was simple, and the paperwork was all approved through the
> avionics shop.
>
>
>