Power on the flareout.

[ArtKramr]

The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the flareout. If
that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into the ground.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dudley Henriques]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the flareout.
If
> that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into the
ground.

I'd be surprised if this was not the case Art. Most high performance twins
with a wing loading like the 26 would be carrying a lot of power on final if
flown correctly, especially if you were heavy on approach. Normally you
could make it on the front side of the power curve, but you can drag them in
behind the curve as well. A lot of the guys did this on the back side, even
though you could really buy the farm if something coughed!! :-) You just had
to keep it out of coffin corner. Get back in there on final with no room to
decrease the angle of attack and it was kitty barred the door!! I'm sure you
remember!!! :-))))
Dudley

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>From: "Dudley Henriques"
>Date: 1/9/04 8:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the flareout.
>If
>> that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into the
>ground.
>
>I'd be surprised if this was not the case Art. Most high performance twins
>with a wing loading like the 26 would be carrying a lot of power on final if
>flown correctly, especially if you were heavy on approach. Normally you
>could make it on the front side of the power curve, but you can drag them in
>behind the curve as well. A lot of the guys did this on the back side, even
>though you could really buy the farm if something coughed!! :-) You just had
>to keep it out of coffin corner. Get back in there on final with no room to
>decrease the angle of attack and it was kitty barred the door!! I'm sure you
>remember!!! :-))))
>Dudley
>
>
I sure do remember on over 100 landings. The roar of those R-2800's on flare
outs was eagerly awaited music to my ears. Ah memories of death defying
moments. (sigh)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dudley Henriques]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
> >From: "Dudley Henriques"
> >Date: 1/9/04 8:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the
flareout.
> >If
> >> that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into the
> >ground.
> >
> >I'd be surprised if this was not the case Art. Most high performance
twins
> >with a wing loading like the 26 would be carrying a lot of power on final
if
> >flown correctly, especially if you were heavy on approach. Normally you
> >could make it on the front side of the power curve, but you can drag them
in
> >behind the curve as well. A lot of the guys did this on the back side,
even
> >though you could really buy the farm if something coughed!! :-) You just
had
> >to keep it out of coffin corner. Get back in there on final with no room
to
> >decrease the angle of attack and it was kitty barred the door!! I'm sure
you
> >remember!!! :-))))
> >Dudley
> >
> >
> I sure do remember on over 100 landings. The roar of those R-2800's on
flare
> outs was eagerly awaited music to my ears. Ah memories of death defying
> moments. (sigh)

I've had a few of those "moments" myself! :-) A real "death defying moment"
happens not so much when everything's "roaring", but if you happen to get
those 2800's running a bit too rich on final; let the bird go too deep
behind the curve; then get excited and pour it to her too fast.
SILENCE!!!!!! Now THERE'S a silence that will wake you up in a nano
second!!!! :-))
Dudley

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>From: "Dudley Henriques"
>Date: 1/9/04 9:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>> >From: "Dudley Henriques"
>> >Date: 1/9/04 8:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >
>> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the
>flareout.
>> >If
>> >> that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into the
>> >ground.
>> >
>> >I'd be surprised if this was not the case Art. Most high performance
>twins
>> >with a wing loading like the 26 would be carrying a lot of power on final
>if
>> >flown correctly, especially if you were heavy on approach. Normally you
>> >could make it on the front side of the power curve, but you can drag them
>in
>> >behind the curve as well. A lot of the guys did this on the back side,
>even
>> >though you could really buy the farm if something coughed!! :-) You just
>had
>> >to keep it out of coffin corner. Get back in there on final with no room
>to
>> >decrease the angle of attack and it was kitty barred the door!! I'm sure
>you
>> >remember!!! :-))))
>> >Dudley
>> >
>> >
>> I sure do remember on over 100 landings. The roar of those R-2800's on
>flare
>> outs was eagerly awaited music to my ears. Ah memories of death defying
>> moments. (sigh)
>
>I've had a few of those "moments" myself! :-) A real "death defying moment"
>happens not so much when everything's "roaring", but if you happen to get
>those 2800's running a bit too rich on final; let the bird go too deep
>behind the curve; then get excited and pour it to her too fast.
>SILENCE!!!!!! Now THERE'S a silence that will wake you up in a nano
>second!!!! :-))
>Dudley
>
>


Aaaaargh. When you have a moment read," Hold off the damn nose wheel Paul" on
my website.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dudley Henriques]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
> >From: "Dudley Henriques"
> >Date: 1/9/04 9:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
> >> >From: "Dudley Henriques"
> >> >Date: 1/9/04 8:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >> >Message-id: >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> The B-26 Martin Marauder needed power poured on to execute the
> >flareout.
> >> >If
> >> >> that was not done, the aicraft would not pull up and just plow into
the
> >> >ground.
> >> >
> >> >I'd be surprised if this was not the case Art. Most high performance
> >twins
> >> >with a wing loading like the 26 would be carrying a lot of power on
final
> >if
> >> >flown correctly, especially if you were heavy on approach. Normally
you
> >> >could make it on the front side of the power curve, but you can drag
them
> >in
> >> >behind the curve as well. A lot of the guys did this on the back side,
> >even
> >> >though you could really buy the farm if something coughed!! :-) You
just
> >had
> >> >to keep it out of coffin corner. Get back in there on final with no
room
> >to
> >> >decrease the angle of attack and it was kitty barred the door!! I'm
sure
> >you
> >> >remember!!! :-))))
> >> >Dudley
> >> >
> >> >
> >> I sure do remember on over 100 landings. The roar of those R-2800's on
> >flare
> >> outs was eagerly awaited music to my ears. Ah memories of death
defying
> >> moments. (sigh)
> >
> >I've had a few of those "moments" myself! :-) A real "death defying
moment"
> >happens not so much when everything's "roaring", but if you happen to get
> >those 2800's running a bit too rich on final; let the bird go too deep
> >behind the curve; then get excited and pour it to her too fast.
> >SILENCE!!!!!! Now THERE'S a silence that will wake you up in a nano
> >second!!!! :-))
> >Dudley
> >
> >
>
>
> Aaaaargh. When you have a moment read," Hold off the damn nose wheel Paul"
on
> my website.

Read it! Good landing. Aerodynamic braking in that crate would have been
hard with full flaps and those engines sticking out there in front of the
cg. He did good!! :-)
I've sent you a back channel photo (from the new book) of a guy with a REAL
problem!! :-)))) This is what can happen if you fly under a bridge inverted.
He walked away believe it or not!
Dudley

[Tom Swift]

Is this the Comedy Channel?

Hilarious stuff though, a Pilot discussing the relative methods of landing
an airplane with a Bombardier. Really funny.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>From: "Tom Swift"
>Date: 1/10/04 11:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Is this the Comedy Channel?
>
>Hilarious stuff though, a Pilot discussing the relative methods of landing
>an airplane with a Bombardier. Really funny.
>
>

Well you could have jumped in and given them your vast experience in shooting
landings in a hot loaded B--26 under combat conditions., then I wouldn't have
had to bother. Also note that none of the pilots on this NG have said that what
I posted was not accurate. I trust that next time something like this comes up
you will contribute and not just sit back and critisize and snicker while
offering nothing of value. Of course I am not a pilot, but I bet I have a lot
more stick time in B-26's,C-47's, Cubs and Feissler Storch's than you do..




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Dudley Henriques]

"Tom Swift" > wrote in message
...

> Is this the Comedy Channel?

Actually.....with your post here, there's a good chance that it's well on
the way to becoming just that!! :-)
>
> Hilarious stuff though, a Pilot discussing the relative methods of landing
> an airplane with a Bombardier. Really funny.

Glad you enjoyed it, but rather than simply laughing yourself to death,
perhaps you would care to add some comment a bit more pertinent to what
we're discussing? Are you experienced perhaps in either the pilot's or the
bombardier's point of view on these matters? Are you experienced in high
performance heavy twins? Are you perhaps familiar with the crew duties of a
bombardier in the B26? If so, when you finish laughing please join in the
discussion with us so that Art and I can laugh a bit ourselves. I'm sure
both Art and myself might benefit a great deal from what you might have to
offer about landing a B26 Marauder. I have to admit, I haven't landed one
myself, although some might say I know a little about what would be
involved. Art on the other hand, has been in a position many times where he
might have had to land a B26 himself. (Never hurts to cross train on a
bomber crew you know :-))

And FYI, this particular bombardier knows a great deal about landing a B26,
, the B26 itself, it's engines, and the general issues surrounding the
flying of the airplane; and this particular pilot has no problem at all
discussing these matters, or any other matters with him, as this pilot has
been doing for many years now.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

[B2431]

>From: "Tom Swift"
>Date: 1/10/2004 1:24 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Is this the Comedy Channel?
>
>Hilarious stuff though, a Pilot discussing the relative methods of landing
>an airplane with a Bombardier. Really funny.
>
A bombardier with a bunch of experience in a B-26. If he says he heard the
engines do something then he heard them.

The odds are he has a very good idea how everything in the aircraft worked.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[Dudley Henriques]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
> >From: "Dudley Henriques"
> >Date: 1/10/04 12:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
>
> >Art on the other hand, has been in a position many times where he
> >might have had to land a B26 himself. (Never hurts to cross train on a
> >bomber crew you know :-))
>
> Interesting you should bring that up, Pauk gave me a lot of stick time
> whenever possible. FIrst straight and level, then hide and seek around
clouds
> and finally touch and goes on cloud tops But what surprised me was how
much
> muscle it took to fly that B-26. It was real work after a while.

I figured he gave you a few hours. I would have! Life insurance for smart
people!!! :-))))
I can imagine how much of a handful the Marauder was. I've flown the B25 and
the F7F Tigercat. They were a handful for me. I can tell you that even
working an AT6 for seventeen minutes straight in an acro demonstration is
about the same workload on your arm as lifting heavy dumbbells for an hour.
I used to need a rubdown after every flight that involved heavy control use.
Oh well, those days are gone now. These days it's YARD WORK!!!!
Argggggggggghhhhhhh!!!!! :-)
Dudley

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>From: (B2431)
>Date: 1/10/04 6:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>From: "Tom Swift"
>>Date: 1/10/2004 1:24 PM Central Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>Is this the Comedy Channel?
>>
>>Hilarious stuff though, a Pilot discussing the relative methods of landing
>>an airplane with a Bombardier. Really funny.
>>
>A bombardier with a bunch of experience in a B-26. If he says he heard the
>engines do something then he heard them.
>
>The odds are he has a very good idea how everything in the aircraft worked.
>
>Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


Well almost everything. (grin) Of course every member of the crew becomes very
sensitive to every sound and is familiar with every sound.If a sound changes
with no reason, your heart beat goes faster and your blood pressure rises and
your adrenalin pumps. I remember that if Paul or Bob let the R-2800's go even
sligfhtly out of synch we would get that annoying beat frequency sound and I
would wonder what the hell is happening in the cockpit, aren't those guys
paying attention., But they always were and all got synched up fast. Look at
it this way. You are sitting in the nose of a Marauder. The sun is beating in
the Plexi and the temperature is rising. It is getting really warm. Then the
engines creep slightly out of synch and you get those droning beat
frequencies. Try to stay awake. It ain't easy.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[B2431]

>From: (ArtKramr)

>
>Well almost everything. (grin) Of course every member of the crew becomes
>very
>sensitive to every sound and is familiar with every sound.If a sound changes
>with no reason, your heart beat goes faster and your blood pressure rises and
>your adrenalin pumps. I remember that if Paul or Bob let the R-2800's go even
>sligfhtly out of synch we would get that annoying beat frequency sound and I
>would wonder what the hell is happening in the cockpit, aren't those guys
>paying attention., But they always were and all got synched up fast. Look at
>it this way. You are sitting in the nose of a Marauder. The sun is beating in
>the Plexi and the temperature is rising. It is getting really warm. Then the
>engines creep slightly out of synch and you get those droning beat
>frequencies. Try to stay awake. It ain't easy.
>
>
>Arthur Kramer

You should have asked me. I'd have told you to just take a nap until it came
time to drop then snooze alla way home. Make sure you have a hot mike so you
can really torque off the rest of the crew <g>

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: Power on the flareout.
>From: (B2431)
>Date: 1/10/04 7:59 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>From: (ArtKramr)
>
>>
>>Well almost everything. (grin) Of course every member of the crew becomes
>>very
>>sensitive to every sound and is familiar with every sound.If a sound changes
>>with no reason, your heart beat goes faster and your blood pressure rises
>and
>>your adrenalin pumps. I remember that if Paul or Bob let the R-2800's go
>even
>>sligfhtly out of synch we would get that annoying beat frequency sound and I
>>would wonder what the hell is happening in the cockpit, aren't those guys
>>paying attention., But they always were and all got synched up fast. Look
>at
>>it this way. You are sitting in the nose of a Marauder. The sun is beating
>in
>>the Plexi and the temperature is rising. It is getting really warm. Then
>the
>>engines creep slightly out of synch and you get those droning beat
>>frequencies. Try to stay awake. It ain't easy.
>>
>>
>>Arthur Kramer
>
>You should have asked me. I'd have told you to just take a nap until it came
>time to drop then snooze alla way home. Make sure you have a hot mike so you
>can really torque off the rest of the crew <g>
>
>Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired


Speaking of taking a nap read, "Bomber Pilots Never Look Down" on my website.
You'll love it. (grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer