The Very Last Operational New German Fighter Model Of WW2

[Garrison Hilliard]

Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?

[Keith Willshaw]

"Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
...
>
> Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw
combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?

Probably the He-162 jet fighter. IRC around 180 were
ready for use before the end of the war, entering
service in Febuary 1945

Keith

[Krztalizer]

Probably JG 1's He 162s.

[robert arndt]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message >...
> "Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw
> combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?
>
> Probably the He-162 jet fighter. IRC around 180 were
> ready for use before the end of the war, entering
> service in Febuary 1945
>
> Keith


Wrong again Keith. The Do-335A-0/A-1s saw some operational duty with
EK335 and II/KG2 in the spring of 1945. These were night interdiction
missions so no Allied report of the "Ant-eater" was reported.

Rob :)

[John Walker]

robert arndt > wrote in message
om...
> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Garrison Hilliard" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that
saw
> > combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?
> >
> > Probably the He-162 jet fighter. IRC around 180 were
> > ready for use before the end of the war, entering
> > service in Febuary 1945
> >
> > Keith
>
>
> Wrong again Keith. The Do-335A-0/A-1s saw some operational duty with
> EK335 and II/KG2 in the spring of 1945. These were night interdiction
> missions so no Allied report of the "Ant-eater" was reported.
>
> Rob :)

Wasn't the Do335 officially a bomber? I note you quote II/KG2, a bomber
unit.

John



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[Krztalizer]

>
>Wasn't the Do335 officially a bomber?

Usually listed as a zerstroyer, heavy fighter.

> I note you quote II/KG2, a bomber
>unit.

A friend purchased a couple photos of 335s sitting next to a hangar and I
noticed they weren't the usual 3-4 airframes that were often depicted at
Dornier AG. They came with a letter from a GI home to momma, telling about the
odd planes. The letter talked about how the captured airmen stated they had
flown "a few missions" but no engagements in the 335. There were no bomb racks
on the B models, but I think only As (fighter bombers primarily) made it to
units.

v/r
Gordon

[Cub Driver]

>
>Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?

It never saw combat, but it had been flight-tested and was on the
"production line" at the Gotha works: the Horten all-wing
fighter-bomber.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Mike Marron]

>Cub Driver wrote:
>>Someone wrote:

>>Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes
>>that saw combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?

>It never saw combat, but it had been flight-tested and was on the
>"production line" at the Gotha works: the Horten all-wing
>fighter-bomber.

German flying wing fighters might have been relatively quick and
simple to manufacture for the beleagured Nazi war machine but the
Horten flying wings designs would have been easy pickens for allied
Spits, P-38's, -47's, -51's etc.

Fighters must be capable of performing aerobatics with ease but
a flying wing fighter would have a terribly tough time turnin' and
burnin' with more conventional allied fighters.

For example, if you attempt to loop a flying wing and blow it you
don't have the luxury of getting a second chance to recover
whereas in a conventional aircraft recovery from a blown loop
and the subsequent stall/spin is fairly routine....

http://www.pegasus-usa.com/tech/tumble.mpg

--
Mike Marron
pegasus912 at tampabay dot rr dot com

[Garrison Hilliard]

Cub Driver > wrote:
>>
>>Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?
>
>It never saw combat...

Then it is not the answer to my question.

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
"Garrison Hilliard" > wrote:

> Cub Driver > wrote:
> >>
> >>Does anybody know what it was (I'm asking strictly about planes that saw
> >>combat, not the "blueprint superfighters")?
> >
> >It never saw combat...
>
> Then it is not the answer to my question.

The first He-162 wing went "operational" on 23 April, less than two
weeks before the war ended. The He-162 actually had its one and only
confirmed kill on April 19, before it was officialy operational (the
He-162 was shot down by another Allied plane before it got back to base).

Two other kills were claimed for He-162, but not confirmed.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Krztalizer]

>The He-162 actually had its one and only
>confirmed kill on April 19, before it was officialy operational (the
>He-162 was shot down by another Allied plane before it got back to base).

No Allied pilot fits for the claim, nor was there an Allied claim for the 162
returning to base. Currently, the folks who dig through archives looking for
evidence of such things say that there was never an abschuss report filed, or,
for that matter, a loss recorded by JG 1 at the time suggested.

>Two other kills were claimed for He-162, but not confirmed.

No confirmation process in place after February 45! :)

v/r
Gordon

[robert arndt]

(Krztalizer) wrote in message >...
> >The He-162 actually had its one and only
> >confirmed kill on April 19, before it was officialy operational (the
> >He-162 was shot down by another Allied plane before it got back to base).
>
> No Allied pilot fits for the claim, nor was there an Allied claim for the 162
> returning to base. Currently, the folks who dig through archives looking for
> evidence of such things say that there was never an abschuss report filed, or,
> for that matter, a loss recorded by JG 1 at the time suggested.
>
> >Two other kills were claimed for He-162, but not confirmed.
>
> No confirmation process in place after February 45! :)
>
> v/r
> Gordon

The April 19th kill has always been questionable to me. The records
from I/JG-1 indicate that they did not recieve the first He-162 until
Feb 26, 1945. On April 1, 1945 they had 4 aircraft and by April 16,
1945 had 16. Nevertheless, the Germans claim these kills:

Feb '45: I/JG-1, Oberst Herbert Ihlefeld's wingman, Sill, near
Kircheim-Treck
April 26, 1945: I/JG-1, Unteroffizer Rechenbach
May 4, 1945: I/JG-1 Leutnant Rudolf Schmitt, near Rostock, Typhoon
aircraft

No mention of a I/JG-1 kill for April 19, 1945 which comes from
Green's outdated "Warplanes of the Third Reich".

I find the first kill in Feb '45 dubious since I/JG-1 wasn't ready for
combat until mid-April 1945. The two other kills are usually the ones
generally accepted and the last one is verified as Schmitt was
captured by the British and treated with respect, an invited guest at
the Staff Officers Club.

Rob

p.s. the He-162 Salamander was originally intended to be called the
He-500 Spatz (Sparrow)

[Cub Driver]

>Then it is not the answer to my question.

Rude little sucker, aren't you?

Control-K!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Krztalizer]

>Nevertheless, the Germans claim these kills:
>
>Feb '45: I/JG-1, Oberst Herbert Ihlefeld's wingman, Sill, near
>Kircheim-Treck
>April 26, 1945: I/JG-1, Unteroffizer Rechenbach
>May 4, 1945: I/JG-1 Leutnant Rudolf Schmitt, near Rostock, Typhoon
>aircraft
>
>No mention of a I/JG-1 kill for April 19, 1945 which comes from
>Green's outdated "Warplanes of the Third Reich".
>
>I find the first kill in Feb '45 dubious since I/JG-1 wasn't ready for
>combat until mid-April 1945. The two other kills are usually the ones
>generally accepted and the last one is verified as Schmitt was
>captured by the British and treated with respect, an invited guest at
>the Staff Officers Club.

Nevertheless, no RAF single engine aircraft was lost in the area where Rudi
claimed one - to put a finer point on it, no German signed the claim as a
witness, and no RAF aircraft was lost there. To me, that means Rudi was
dreamin'. There was also nothing in JG 1s wartime KTBs that show an He 162
lost to any air combat. I have gone through them - its not there.

I don't usually recommend Tony Woods claims lists, but have you ever gone
through them, Rob? They represent the current data on German claims, culled
directly from the wartime records only - a few mistakes that I know of
personally, but without a doubt these lists of Tony's are the best online
resource, as they are completely independent of postwar second hand info
(unfortch, some such lists are generated entirely out of books, perpetuating
myths as well as introducing their own errors as well).

http://tonywood.cjb.net/

These are far more complete than anything produced in the past - the opening of
various east european archives has brought a large infusion of additional
wartime data to the table; at the same time, it has removed support for some
long cherished ideas. With a total lack of supporting data for the JG 1 claims
(i.e., NO original claim forms, signed by anyone, have come to light - even the
pilots that came forward after the war to say they had combat in He 162s
somehow failed to keep copies of their claims!)

So, we then have to go to the PRO to check the other side of the leger - did
the RAF lose anything that corresponds to the "Typhoon" (or any other single in
that region)? Nope. A couple of flak hits on kites on the day in question but
nothing else. Continuing deeper, we turn to the gold mine of wartime docs -
the ULTRA decrypts. Still, the record is silent: apparently, JG 1 never
notified anyone in its chain of command that three of their pilots (or two, or
even one) had engaged feindflug and scored an abschusse.

Postwar books that repeat the JG 1 claims invariably leave out the fact that
no Jafu or OKL document supports them.

As for the Brits treating Rudi well - they were downright respectful to Welter
too, and they knew quite well that he claimed dozens of Mosquitos that were
safely parked on their hardstands in east anglia.

Gordon
Stormbirds.com/recon