Parachute recommendations

[Jim Meade]

I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
disadvantages of any of them.

Suggestions?

[Adam D]

On Mar 15, 10:24*pm, Jim Meade > wrote:
> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. *Would like to use it for
> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. *INo clue of the advantages/
> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> Suggestions?

The National "Softie" is probably the best selling emergency parachute
on the market. Strong makes a great bailout rig as well. The most
important thing in a parachute for glider/aerobatic flying is the
right fit, profile, and comfort of the system which depends greatly on
the seating arrangement in the aircraft you're flying. Ideally, and
most likely you will never use it in an actual jump, but you will
spend many hours sitting against it. Make sure that it is going to be
comfortable in your aircraft. Paragear has a great catalog. Also, as
a skydiver with 1000+ jumps, glider, and recreational aerobatic pilot
I highly recommend that you go through a basic jump course and at
least a few levels of AFF or static line training at least to the
point where you feel comfortable with getting out of an aircraft and
opening the parachute on your own. There's no point in having a
parachute if you are too scared or don't have the proper training to
use it. At the moment of truth, if you ever need to use it, you want
to have all the cards stacked in your favor.

Blue Skies,
Adam

[Adam D]

Oh, one more thing...make sure that the parachute you buy is
sufficient for your weight. A parachute that's too small is better
than none at all, but could mean the difference between landing
completely unharmed and landing with two broken legs.

Blue Skies,
Adam

[Frank Whiteley]

On Mar 15, 10:54 pm, Adam D > wrote:
> Oh, one more thing...make sure that the parachute you buy is
> sufficient for your weight. A parachute that's too small is better
> than none at all, but could mean the difference between landing
> completely unharmed and landing with two broken legs.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Adam

Size and operating environment. Out west, you might land at 10,000msl
or higher.

Any UK distributors selling Irvin's?
http://www.irvinaerospace.com/build.html
They have a 29.8ft canopy in an emergency chute.

Frank Whiteley

[CLewis95]

On Mar 15, 11:52*pm, Adam D > wrote:
> On Mar 15, 10:24*pm, Jim Meade > wrote:
>
> > I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. *Would like to use it for
> > other flying, as well, if it is suitable. *INo clue of the advantages/
> > disadvantages of any of them.
>
> > Suggestions?
>
> The National "Softie" is probably the best selling emergency parachute
> on the market. *Strong makes a great bailout rig as well. *The most
> important thing in a parachute for glider/aerobatic flying is the
> right fit, profile, and comfort of the system which depends greatly on
> the seating arrangement in the aircraft you're flying. *Ideally, and
> most likely you will never use it in an actual jump, but you will
> spend many hours sitting against it. *Make sure that it is going to be
> comfortable in your aircraft. *Paragear has a great catalog. *Also, as
> a skydiver with 1000+ jumps, glider, and recreational aerobatic pilot
> I highly recommend that you go through a basic jump course and at
> least a few levels of AFF or static line training at least to the
> point where you feel comfortable with getting out of an aircraft and
> opening the parachute on your own. *There's no point in having a
> parachute if you are too scared or don't have the proper training to
> use it. *At the moment of truth, if you ever need to use it, you want
> to have all the cards stacked in your favor.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Adam

I believe Adam is referring to the "Paraphernalia" Softie Line
http://www.softieparachutes.com/

I have a Mini Softie and have been very happy with it. I also own a
National chute. They both are highly regarded companies/designs on
the market.

Curt - 95

[Darryl Ramm]

On Mar 15, 8:24 pm, Jim Meade > wrote:
> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> Suggestions?

Find a good parachute rigger knowledgeable about emergency (glider,
aerobatic etc.) parachutes and ask them. One place to start is whoever
packs parachutes for local glider pilots. Where are you located? Maybe
people here can recommend somebody if they know where you are. There
are lots of variables with brand and models and harness options and
how well it fits you and the glider, and canopy size, and maybe
tailoring the harness to fit you well, and ... lots of reasons to deal
with a professional (ideally the person can also do some basic ground
training for you and will be repacking your chute).


Darryl

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Mar 15, 8:24 pm, Jim Meade > wrote:
>> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
>> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
>> disadvantages of any of them.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>
> Find a good parachute rigger knowledgeable about emergency (glider,
> aerobatic etc.) parachutes and ask them. One place to start is whoever
> packs parachutes for local glider pilots. Where are you located? Maybe
> people here can recommend somebody if they know where you are. There
> are lots of variables with brand and models and harness options and
> how well it fits you and the glider, and canopy size, and maybe
> tailoring the harness to fit you well, and ... lots of reasons to deal
> with a professional (ideally the person can also do some basic ground
> training for you and will be repacking your chute).

Good idea in general, though the vast majority of parachute riggers have
absolutely no clue what parachute style is most suitable for particular
types of gliders. Much as I like and respect our friendly local rigger,
for instance, one may get better advice on that subject here.

My experience: I initially purchased a Long Softie (chair style) on the
advice of our local rigger, which worked OK in several older
semi-reclined gliders, but was rather uncomfortable in newer gliders. I
sold it and bought a Mini Softie (backpack style), which is more
comfortable for me in just about any glider, as well as in Citabrias, etc.

Marc

[Darryl Ramm]

On Mar 15, 11:47 pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > On Mar 15, 8:24 pm, Jim Meade > wrote:
> >> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> >> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> >> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> >> Suggestions?
>
> > Find a good parachute rigger knowledgeable about emergency (glider,
> > aerobatic etc.) parachutes and ask them. One place to start is whoever
> > packs parachutes for local glider pilots. Where are you located? Maybe
> > people here can recommend somebody if they know where you are. There
> > are lots of variables with brand and models and harness options and
> > how well it fits you and the glider, and canopy size, and maybe
> > tailoring the harness to fit you well, and ... lots of reasons to deal
> > with a professional (ideally the person can also do some basic ground
> > training for you and will be repacking your chute).
>
> Good idea in general, though the vast majority of parachute riggers have
> absolutely no clue what parachute style is most suitable for particular
> types of gliders. Much as I like and respect our friendly local rigger,
> for instance, one may get better advice on that subject here.
>
> My experience: I initially purchased a Long Softie (chair style) on the
> advice of our local rigger, which worked OK in several older
> semi-reclined gliders, but was rather uncomfortable in newer gliders. I
> sold it and bought a Mini Softie (backpack style), which is more
> comfortable for me in just about any glider, as well as in Citabrias, etc.
>
> Marc

And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
obvious. It was incredibly comfortable in the DG-303 and front seat of
a DG-1000, but when I brought my ASH-26E I purchased a mini-softie
after measuring the seat back cutout and talking to my rigger to
confirm what chute should work best. If somebody was buying a
parachute for a DG-30x or DG-80x today I'd still recommend they look
at a long-softie unless they also wanted to fly gliders here it did
not work (e.g. Schleichers with small seat back cutouts). The long-
softie also has lots of space to stow some basic survival gear in the
lower foam padded seat cushion extension (spare hat, charts, pocket
knife, etc.).

A rigger not familiar with emergency chutes will probably have no
idea, for those who are you at least have a chance. The best thing for
fit to the glider is to try out parachutes from other pilots in your
actual glider.

Darryl

[Tim Mara]

I sold nearly 200 new and used parachutes in the last year, mostly to glider
pilots but a large number to airplane pilots and many used for both airplane
and glider and a very large number were exported out of the USA. There are
important considerations depending on pilot size, weight and the type of
airplane/glider you'll be using it for most...in general, back pack
parachutes will most normally fit a larger variety of planes best. I offer
Strong, National and Paraphernalia parachutes, all are excellent quality but
all have different styles and fit. I also have helped National modify some
designs and introduce new versions to suite other pilot needs, some National
designs have been copied by both Strong and Paraphernalia....the GRF for
instance was one of my designs now offered by both Strong and Paraphernalia
and the National "teardrop" is offered by Strong and Paraphernalia as a
Wedge model.
Best to know the seller who really knows the subtle differences in models
and airplane/glider types you might fly, and get a chute based on what is
best for you. Please see my website page
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page39.htm with links to the major
manufacturers and call me if you have questions....I'm always here (M-F
9-4), ready to help you make the best choice.
Best regards
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Jim Meade" > wrote in message
...
> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> Suggestions?

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

Darryl Ramm wrote:
> And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
> DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
> buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
> position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
> necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
> obvious.

Actually, no, I bought the Mini Softie after I figured out I wasn't very
comfortable in the 303 or the Duo. I think he just considers Long
Softies to be the parachute that glider pilots buy...

Marc

[vontresc]

On Mar 16, 1:31*pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
> > DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
> > buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
> > position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
> > necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
> > obvious.
>
> Actually, no, I bought the Mini Softie after I figured out I wasn't very
> comfortable in the 303 or the Duo. *I think he just considers Long
> Softies to be the parachute that glider pilots buy...
>
> Marc

As I am in the market for a parachute in the near future as well, does
anyone have a suggestion what type of pack would be best in a Ka-6CR?

Pete

P.S. if you have a good condition used one I'd be interested as well

[Eric Greenwell]

Adam D wrote:
> Also, as
> a skydiver with 1000+ jumps, glider, and recreational aerobatic pilot
> I highly recommend that you go through a basic jump course and at
> least a few levels of AFF or static line training at least to the
> point where you feel comfortable with getting out of an aircraft and
> opening the parachute on your own. There's no point in having a
> parachute if you are too scared or don't have the proper training to
> use it. At the moment of truth, if you ever need to use it, you want
> to have all the cards stacked in your favor.

This recommendation seems reasonable, but I wonder if there is any
research, even just an informal survey, that provides evidence for it.
After all, the suggestion is about 4000 USA glider pilots should make
several parachute jumps to improve the outcomes of the bail-out from a
that happens every two three years.

My fuzzy recollection of the last 30 years is that any pilot that gets
out of the glider has a pretty good outcome, meaning no or small
injuries. In other words, we'd be risking injury or worse from 8000 to
12,000 practice jumps to make 3 or 4 bail-outs come out a little bit better.

Perhaps my recollection is wrong.

Are there pilots with no parachute training that bailed out of a glider,
then made some practice jumps afterwards so they'd be better prepared if
it happened again?

Are there pilots that did have parachuting training before they bailed
out of a glider in an emergency, and were damn glad they had the training?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Chris Reed[_2_]]

I don't have a specific suggestion, but do recall from my time flying a
K6cr that the seat back has a well for the parachute to sit in, and that
the headroom between me and the canopy (I'm 6ft 1in = 1.85m) was
minimal. Both these suggest a backpack parachute rather than one with a
built-in seat cushion.

As to which backpack type, ideally find as many pilots at your airfield
as have parachutes and ask them to let you try them out in your cockpit
(as advised in a previous thread).

vontresc wrote:
> On Mar 16, 1:31 pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
>> Darryl Ramm wrote:
>>> And I brought the same long-softie for possibly the same glider a
>>> DG-300/303, on recommendation from possibly the same rigger. If you
>>> buy a long-softie that is designed for a more reclined seating
>>> position, I think it comes implicitly with the idea that it won't
>>> necessarily be comfortable in all gliders - but maybe that's not
>>> obvious.
>> Actually, no, I bought the Mini Softie after I figured out I wasn't very
>> comfortable in the 303 or the Duo. I think he just considers Long
>> Softies to be the parachute that glider pilots buy...
>>
>> Marc
>
> As I am in the market for a parachute in the near future as well, does
> anyone have a suggestion what type of pack would be best in a Ka-6CR?
>
> Pete
>
> P.S. if you have a good condition used one I'd be interested as well

[Eric Greenwell]

Jim Meade wrote:
> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> disadvantages of any of them.

A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering
a new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design,
like a sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport
parachute does. I believe this is the one:

http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator_pilot_parachute.htm

Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".

The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.

Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the
round parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability;
e.g., in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean
you might dragged more after landing in windy conditions?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Tim Mara]

some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? :o)
So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
> Jim Meade wrote:
>> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
>> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
>> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering a
> new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design, like a
> sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport parachute
> does. I believe this is the one:
>
> http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator_pilot_parachute.htm
>
> Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".
>
> The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second, vs
> the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My high
> school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a 2.5
> foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>
> Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the round
> parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability; e.g.,
> in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean you might
> dragged more after landing in windy conditions?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[toad]

On Mar 17, 1:39 pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
> these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
> parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
> function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
> you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
> immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
> experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
> tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
> into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
> in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
> positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
> other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
> flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
> emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
> learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
> landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
> many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? :o)
> So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
> place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
> Tim
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>

The manufacture of the linked parachute claims that the P-124 was
specifically designed as an emergency parachute for untrained airmen.
I'm also curious if anyone has used one.

Todd

[[email protected]]

On Mar 17, 1:00*pm, toad > wrote:
> On Mar 17, 1:39 pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > some emergency parachutes "can be" fitted with square (ram air) parachutes,
> > these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
> > parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
> > function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
> > you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
> > immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
> > experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
> > tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
> > into a proper PLF position for deployment. The standard round canopies used
> > in most emergency parachutes are extensively tested to open for all
> > positions, in all imaginable conditions, even soaked wet, mispacked or
> > other... the landing with a ram air parachute is also much like
> > flying....they can be flown very fast, slowed, even stalled (though for
> > emergency use they would be less controllable to limit these) you need to
> > learn to flare at the correct time to make that soft airshow like stand up
> > landing, otherwise your landing can be pretty eventful.....(ever notice how
> > many at the local jump site are wearing casts or walking with crutches? :o)
> > So IMHO and in the opinion of most manufacturers the ram air canopies have a
> > place, but not typically in emergency pilot rigs.
> > Tim
> > Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>
> The manufacture of the linked parachute claims that the P-124 was
> specifically designed as an emergency parachute for untrained airmen.
> I'm also curious if anyone has used one.
>
> Todd- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Am I missing something? Here is some text from the linked website.
Their own information seems to contradict.

"Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the
Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have
ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special
training in the use and performance of these canopies."

and....

"The heart of the system is the P-124 ram-air canopy which is designed
for use by airmen who may have no prior jump experience or who may
even be incapacitated to some degree."


Which is it? Both are referring to the P-124 canopy design.

[Eric Greenwell]

wrote:

> Am I missing something? Here is some text from the linked website.
> Their own information seems to contradict.
>
> "Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the
> Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have
> ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special
> training in the use and performance of these canopies."
>
> and....
>
> "The heart of the system is the P-124 ram-air canopy which is designed
> for use by airmen who may have no prior jump experience or who may
> even be incapacitated to some degree."
>
>
> Which is it? Both are referring to the P-124 canopy design.

That web site is confusing, as it appears to refer to a Sport Aviator
model and a Pilot Emergency model, but doesn't tell you which is which.
This website by the designers and manufacturers of the P-124 is clear
about it:

http://www.rigginginnovations.com/products/aviator.htm

They show four models "For experienced Ram-Air Skydivers or training
personnel only", and two models for pilots without that experience.
Those two models deploy in the "braked" configuration.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Andy[_1_]]

On Mar 17, 8:18*am, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> Are there pilots with no parachute training that bailed out of a glider,
> then made some practice jumps afterwards so they'd be better prepared if
> it happened again?
>
> Are there pilots that did have parachuting training before they bailed
> out of a glider in an emergency, and were damn glad they had the training?

I don't fit either category since I never jumped out of an aircraft in
an emergency. I do have several hundred hours flying jump planes and
have made about 50 jumps.

Point 1 - Almost all sport jumping is done with ram air parachutes
that can be steered and flared. I doubt that any canopy experience
with these has much benefit for an emergncy landing under a round.

Point 2 - Almost all glider emergency parachutes are rounds. I know
of a few pilots, one with no jump experience at all, that use ram air
emergency chutes. I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.

Point 3 - The biggest advantages of jump experience may be less fear
exiting the aircraft and more stable position on opening. I watched
lots of first time jumpers exit my aircraft. The thing that impressed
me most was that I never saw a malfunction despite the horrible
positions sometimes adopted after leaving the strut.

So my priorities would be:

1.Familairity with my own emergency chute particularly what I have to
do to turn it into the wind.

2.Getting ground training in parachute landing fall technique.

3. Getting an actual jump, but just because it's fun (until you break
something)

I know one pilot that baled out over Arizona. He was so calm and
collected he spent most of the descent trying to get nice and stable
and nearly hit the ground before he pulled. There are no style points
for the jump, get it open.

Andy

[Tuno]

> I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
> who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.

I am a very experienced jumper (known by Andy) and I would never
consider using anything BUT a ram air emergency chute in my glider.

With appropriate wing loading, of course!

2NO

[toad]

On Mar 17, 3:56 pm, Tuno > wrote:
> > I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
> > who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.
>
> I am a very experienced jumper (known by Andy) and I would never
> consider using anything BUT a ram air emergency chute in my glider.
>
> With appropriate wing loading, of course!
>
> 2NO

But would you recommend a chute like the P-124 emergency ram air for a
pilot that was NOT a experienced jumper ?

Todd

[vontresc]

On Mar 17, 2:56*pm, Tuno > wrote:
> > I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
> > who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.
>
> I am a very experienced jumper (known by Andy) and I would never
> consider using anything BUT a ram air emergency chute in my glider.
>
> With appropriate wing loading, of course!
>
> 2NO

So do you drop your water ballast before of after exiting the sticken
glider :-)

Pete

[Tuno]

> But would you recommend a chute like the P-124 emergency ram air for a
> pilot that was NOT a experienced jumper ?

In general, yes. (Btw the P-124 is what I have in my Rigging
Innovations Aviator.)

The P-124 is remarkably easy to operate. My opinion is that a person
who is capable enough to have a private pilot license is also capable
of safely using the P-124 with no prior jump experience. But you *do*
need to RTFM and know what you've got.

And of course it's always a fun and worthwhile experience to visit
your nearest USPA affiliated skydiving center and make a tandem jump.
Tell the instructor that you're interested in pulling the handle when
the time comes. He/she will let you fly the canopy.

2NO

[toad]

On Mar 17, 4:46 pm, Tuno > wrote:
....
> And of course it's always a fun and worthwhile experience to visit
> your nearest USPA affiliated skydiving center and make a tandem jump.
> Tell the instructor that you're interested in pulling the handle when
> the time comes. He/she will let you fly the canopy.
>
> 2NO

I am actually considering doing either a tandem or AFF jump for both
the fun and the practice.

Todd

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

toad wrote:
>
> The manufacture of the linked parachute claims that the P-124 was
> specifically designed as an emergency parachute for untrained airmen.
> I'm also curious if anyone has used one.
>
I haven't, but I was chatting to my packer about a month or so back
because my canopy is old and getting towards its expiry date. The
packer, who assembled my chute, was explaining that its getting very
hard to find round canopies because nobody is making them now. He said
that we'll all be in square chutes before long because of the round
canopy supply issue and added that they cost significantly more.

He also pointed at the Aviator emergency chute and said the same as you
saw - that it can be used by an untrained jumper. According to him the
emergency model has lower maneuverability but is steerable and can't be
stalled, which can collapse the chute.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tuno]

> these are only for certified jumpers who have experience in this type of
> parachute. However, it also should be noted that square parachutes do not
> function like round or conical parachutes, they don't open reliably unless
> you are in a stable position, something you likely will not be in
> immediately after a bail out and may never be in if you're not an
> experienced jumper, more likely you will exit and emergency bail out
> tumbling and even with experience you may be disabled and unable to enter
> into a proper PLF position for deployment.

That used to be true ... a looooong time ago ... but square (ram air)
parachutes became much more reliable that round ones within a few
years after they were invented. (Round parachutes inherently want to
be in a closed configuration. Ram-airs want to be open. Emergency ram-
air parachutes are far more reliable than round ones, in any
deployment position, which is why round ones are so rare among
skydivers today, as emergency parachutes.)

Modern emergency ram-airs like the P-124 are every bit as dependable
as the rounds, and they are (by design) docile, forgiving, pretty much
idiot proof, and you can pretty much land them where you want, clear
of power lines, houses, lakes, freeways, and Lennie.

2NO
4300 ram-air jumps, zero deployment malfunctions

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
<...>
> The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second, vs
> the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My high
> school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a 2.5
> foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>

I _assume_ a better comparison would be jumping off a stationary 5 foot
ladder vs. jumping off a moving pickup truck?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Tinwings]

On Mar 17, 9:17*am, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> Jim Meade wrote:
> > I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. *Would like to use it for
> > other flying, as well, if it is suitable. *INo clue of the advantages/
> > disadvantages of any of them.
>
> A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering
> a new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design,
> like a sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport
> parachute does. I believe this is the one:
>
> http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator_pilot_parachute.htm
>
> Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".
>
> The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
> vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
> high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
> 2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>
> Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the
> round parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability;
> e.g., in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean
> you might dragged more after landing in windy conditions?
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * * * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
testify to the low descent and quick opening.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings > wrote:
> On Mar 17, 9:17 am, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim Meade wrote:
> > > I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> > > other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> > > disadvantages of any of them.
>
> > A friend of mine is also looking for a new parachute. He is considering
> > a new type of emergency parachute that is rectangular ram air design,
> > like a sport parachute, but does not require the training that a sport
> > parachute does. I believe this is the one:
>
> >http://www.parachuteshop.com/aviator_pilot_parachute.htm
>
> > Scroll down about one page to the section labeled "The canopy".
>
> > The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
> > vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
> > high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
> > 2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>
> > Any comments on the desirability of this new design compared to the
> > round parachutes we use now? Is the lower descent rate ever a liability;
> > e.g., in updrafts near a cloud? Does the lower descent rate also mean
> > you might dragged more after landing in windy conditions?
>
> > --
> > Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> > * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
>
> > * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> > * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more
>
> > * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org
>
> The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
> years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
> be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
> on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
> any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
> them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
> does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
> canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
> parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
> greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
> result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
> If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
> you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
> rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
> rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
> C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
> Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
> testify to the low descent and quick opening.

BTW apparently the rigger may not always have the option of arranging
the canopy/diaper within the container for all (round) emergency
parachutes. Something Allen pointed out to me, some emergency
parachute packing instructions just don't allow any latitude, I'm not
sure if the pack ends up being comfortable on those parachutes or not,
sorry I forget the brands (except it is not paraphernalia), but I
believe is well the exception not rule.

Darryl

[Eric Greenwell]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
> news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
> <...>
>> The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
>> vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second.
>> My high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping
>> off a 2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>>
>
> I _assume_ a better comparison would be jumping off a stationary 5 foot
> ladder vs. jumping off a moving pickup truck?

I'm not sure what you mean, but what I was trying to say is a 12
feet/second descent rate is how fast you are moving after jumping from a
2.5 foot high ladder, etc. Any horizontal motion would depend on the
wind strength and which direction you were pointed relative to it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[[email protected]]

On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings > wrote:

> The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
> years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
> be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
> on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
> any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
> them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
> does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
> canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
> parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
> greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
> result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
> If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
> you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
> rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
> rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
> C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
> Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
> testify to the low descent and quick opening.

I just took my rig to be repacked today. Being a tall heavy guy,
finding the thinnest rig with adequate descent rate that will allow me
to fit in the cockpit has been a challenge. I currently have a Wedge
Softie with a Performance Design P-235 square canopy. My previous rig
was a Wedge Softie with a round Preserve III canopy that I sold after
being asked time after time by my rigger if I had a desire to be a
lawn dart! I will vouch for the change in comfort mentioned by
Tinwings. Unlike the Preserve III, the P-235 is stuffed into the
container like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound sack. I thought it
would be a problem in the glider but it hasn't really been that bad
and I don't regret making the change.

The PD P-235 Owner's Manual is interesting reading. Particularly the
"Deployment Body Position and Airspeed" and Repack Cycle Sections.
See:
http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Reserve_manual.pdf

I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.

Steve

[Darryl Ramm]

On Mar 17, 7:03 pm, wrote:
> On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings > wrote:
>
>
>
> > The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
> > years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
> > be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
> > on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
> > any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
> > them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
> > does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
> > canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
> > parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
> > greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
> > result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
> > If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
> > you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
> > rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
> > rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
> > C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
> > Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
> > testify to the low descent and quick opening.
>
> I just took my rig to be repacked today. Being a tall heavy guy,
> finding the thinnest rig with adequate descent rate that will allow me
> to fit in the cockpit has been a challenge. I currently have a Wedge
> Softie with a Performance Design P-235 square canopy. My previous rig
> was a Wedge Softie with a round Preserve III canopy that I sold after
> being asked time after time by my rigger if I had a desire to be a
> lawn dart! I will vouch for the change in comfort mentioned by
> Tinwings. Unlike the Preserve III, the P-235 is stuffed into the
> container like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound sack. I thought it
> would be a problem in the glider but it hasn't really been that bad
> and I don't regret making the change.
>
> The PD P-235 Owner's Manual is interesting reading. Particularly the
> "Deployment Body Position and Airspeed" and Repack Cycle Sections.
> See:http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Reserve_manual.pdf
>
> I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
> mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
> last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
> put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
> place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
> all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.
>
> Steve

Your rigger should talk to my rigger... Look at Allen Silver's large
SMAK pack (see http://www.silverparachutes.com/smak_pak.html), this
will hold a harness/shroud cutter on the outside, fit a 406 MHz PLB
inside, and current versions have a small internal pocked to hold a
small signal mirror, "Spark-Lite" fire starter, and whistle. I use a
McMurdo PLB in mine and I believe the ACR models will fit as well.

Since I missed all the space in my long-softie to stow survival gear I
also had Allen sew three large horizontal pockets onto the inside of
the sheep skin pad on my mini-softie. The pockets have one side end
open that seals with a velcro closure These hold sectional charts/
road maps, a spare hat (I'm follically challenged), large pocket
knife, a large signal mirror, small compass, very basic first aid gear
(squishy stuff that will pack flat), allergy meds, large unfolded
space blanket, ... needs careful packing to get comfortable.

Spare eye glasses, retainer strap, cell phone, and my wallet go into
the velcro closed front pockets on my North Face cargo pants I wear
when flying. I hope that velcro stays closed if the worse ever
happens.

BTW Paraphernalia makes a "survival" parachute that has space inside
to pack survival gear, I believe they sell very few if any of them.


Cheers


Darryl

[toad]

> I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
> mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
> last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
> put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
> place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
> all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.
>
> Steve

You could buy a fishing or travel vest with lots of pockets and wear
it under the parachute.

Todd

[Bert Willing[_2_]]

I use one of these belly bags, which has the benefit to be independant from
the parachute and roomy enough to carry the items I need.

Bert

"toad" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
>> mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
>> last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
>> put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
>> place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
>> all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.
>>
>> Steve
>
> You could buy a fishing or travel vest with lots of pockets and wear
> it under the parachute.
>
> Todd

[JS]

Re: stashing things:
I've discovered that the SPOT fits in a pouch from the EBC model 102
121.5 / 243MHz personal ELT. Tim Mara may have these pouches. You need
to shorten the straps to have it fit on the parachute harness (I'd
already done that for the old ELT, now on e-bay), and cut a hole to
access the SPOT buttons.
Jim

Stepping down the catwalk wearing the fashionable:
Mini Softie with PD 235 ram air parachute. Thank you, Allen Silver.
or
National 360 with 24' canopy. Thanks, Larry Kreuger for the "slightly
modified" pack. The best fit in the Nimbus 3.

And who so far has only jumped out of perfectly good planes - if you
could refer to some jump zone aircraft as such.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:BlFDj.8407$dq2.489@trndny05...
> Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
>> "Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
>> news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
>> <...>
>>> The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
>>> vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
>>> high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
>>> 2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.
>>>
>>
>> I _assume_ a better comparison would be jumping off a stationary 5 foot
>> ladder vs. jumping off a moving pickup truck?
>
> I'm not sure what you mean, but what I was trying to say is a 12
> feet/second descent rate is how fast you are moving after jumping from a
> 2.5 foot high ladder, etc. Any horizontal motion would depend on the wind
> strength and which direction you were pointed relative to it.
>

A round 'chute doesn't fly with much horizontal velocity, but my
understanding is that for a ram air chute to work, you do need quite a bit
more forward speed to keep it inflated and to keep the descent rate under
control - hence, while the verticle velocity may be lower for the ram air
chute, I suspect the horizantal velocity will be much higher - I don't know
what the total velocity (vector sum of the horizantal and verticle) would be
for one vs. the other.

Please correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[John Smith]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

> hence, while the verticle velocity may be lower for the
> ram air chute, I suspect the horizantal velocity will be much higher

I'm no parachute jumper, but as far as I've been informed, this is
exactly the point. Those round chutes had very limited maneuvrability.
Especially in strong wind conditions, maneuvrability is a very important
safety factor. And it comes without a draw back: those modern "square"
emergency chutes descend gently on their own even if you just keep
passivly hanging in them. So you don't *need* to actively fly them, but
you *can* if you can. They just offer more options.

[Rick Hernan]

Years ago, when considering purchasing an emergency parachute, I was
telling my secretary about the variables, including costs. Her very astute
response was "I don't think that you should be trying to save money when you
are buying an EMERGENCY parachute!"

Rick Hernan

"Jim Meade" > wrote in message
...
> I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
> other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
> disadvantages of any of them.
>
> Suggestions?

[JS]

Notes on square chutes, from my small experience with them.
First and foremost: It's necessary to have training about square
chutes (ground school or even a jump) before you buy one. Try a jump,
it's fun.
Saying there are no drawbacks is a misunderstanding.*
When a square parachute opens, the steering/brake toggles are still
in the "locked" position, which essentially trims the wing for minimum
sink. It still has forward speed, but not a lot.
If you grab and release the toggles, then release tension on them,
the wing is trimmed for maximum L/D. Now you have some forward speed.
With that forward speed and maneuverability, you have a better chance
of avoiding a mountainside, trees, power line, etc. Landing on a day
with moderate wind should be less of a concern.
Speed is controlled with the brake toggles. You fly a tight landing
pattern just like an extremely low performance glider would (think
primary), and land into the wind. A properly executed flare will
reduce your air speed to nearly zero.
Two posts list the PD235. This is a 235 square foot wing rated for
254 pound max suspended weight (too big for me at sea level, probably
not if landing at 4,000 feet or higher. It has a glide ratio of 3.5:1
with an aspect ratio of 2:1 The forward speed is about 15 or 20 MPH.
About the same as early Rogallo hang gliders!
I have done stand up landings under similar square chutes, and on
the last one kept the wing flying above my head, turned around, and
then dropped the wing to the ground. If you do that in a windy
situation, you will be more able to step downwind to deflate the wing
and avoid being dragged.
* Caveats:
If you have released the toggles and do nothing else afterwards, the
landing won't be pretty. Or worse.
If someone borrows your glider, they should not wear your square chute
unless qualified.
Jim

[John Smith]

JS wrote:

> If you have released the toggles and do nothing else afterwards, the
> landing won't be pretty. Or worse.
> If someone borrows your glider, they should not wear your square chute
> unless qualified.

An unpretty landing with a square chute is certainly better than one
without a chute.

I wear an emergency chute to survive if I ever should need to jump out
of the glider. If then I manage to land without broken legs, I will look
at it as an extra bonus.

[Ralph Jones[_2_]]

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:33:41 -0700 (PDT), vontresc
> wrote:

>On Mar 17, 2:56*pm, Tuno > wrote:
>> > I also know of a least one very experienced jumper
>> > who would never consider using a ram air emergency chute in a glider.
>>
>> I am a very experienced jumper (known by Andy) and I would never
>> consider using anything BUT a ram air emergency chute in my glider.
>>
>> With appropriate wing loading, of course!
>>
>> 2NO
>
>So do you drop your water ballast before of after exiting the sticken
>glider :-)
>
Depends on which water ballast you mean...

rj

[[email protected]]

On Mar 17, 9:40 pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Mar 17, 7:03 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings > wrote:
>
> > > The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
> > > years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
> > > be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
> > > on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
> > > any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
> > > them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
> > > does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
> > > canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
> > > parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
> > > greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
> > > result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
> > > If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
> > > you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
> > > rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
> > > rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
> > > C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
> > > Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
> > > testify to the low descent and quick opening.
>
> > I just took my rig to be repacked today. Being a tall heavy guy,
> > finding the thinnest rig with adequate descent rate that will allow me
> > to fit in the cockpit has been a challenge. I currently have a Wedge
> > Softie with a Performance Design P-235 square canopy. My previous rig
> > was a Wedge Softie with a round Preserve III canopy that I sold after
> > being asked time after time by my rigger if I had a desire to be a
> > lawn dart! I will vouch for the change in comfort mentioned by
> > Tinwings. Unlike the Preserve III, the P-235 is stuffed into the
> > container like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound sack. I thought it
> > would be a problem in the glider but it hasn't really been that bad
> > and I don't regret making the change.
>
> > The PD P-235 Owner's Manual is interesting reading. Particularly the
> > "Deployment Body Position and Airspeed" and Repack Cycle Sections.
> > See:http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Reserve_manual.pdf
>
> > I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
> > mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
> > last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
> > put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
> > place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
> > all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.
>
> > Steve
>
> Your rigger should talk to my rigger... Look at Allen Silver's large
> SMAK pack (seehttp://www.silverparachutes.com/smak_pak.html), this
> will hold a harness/shroud cutter on the outside, fit a 406 MHz PLB
> inside, and current versions have a small internal pocked to hold a
> small signal mirror, "Spark-Lite" fire starter, and whistle. I use a
> McMurdo PLB in mine and I believe the ACR models will fit as well.
>
> Since I missed all the space in my long-softie to stow survival gear I
> also had Allen sew three large horizontal pockets onto the inside of
> the sheep skin pad on my mini-softie. The pockets have one side end
> open that seals with a velcro closure These hold sectional charts/
> road maps, a spare hat (I'm follically challenged), large pocket
> knife, a large signal mirror, small compass, very basic first aid gear
> (squishy stuff that will pack flat), allergy meds, large unfolded
> space blanket, ... needs careful packing to get comfortable.
>
> Spare eye glasses, retainer strap, cell phone, and my wallet go into
> the velcro closed front pockets on my North Face cargo pants I wear
> when flying. I hope that velcro stays closed if the worse ever
> happens.
>
> BTW Paraphernalia makes a "survival" parachute that has space inside
> to pack survival gear, I believe they sell very few if any of them.
>
> Cheers
>
> Darryl

Darryl and others,

Thanks for the tips. The SMAK pack sounds like what my rigger said he
was going to fab up for my rig. We looked at putting some of the stuff
on a riser but I need to have the gear available for my paraglider and
other activities.
Glider annual and W&B this weekend and I'll be ready for the season!
Steve