Former FAA aviation safety inspector thoughts

[[email protected]]

The point of Standy by Vac & electrical is very valid! I have
investigated many IFR accidents with no indication as to WHY!

No radio calls no nothing!

On site investigations show the engine(s) making plenty of power
trees with prop gashes in them so we know that the aircraft had
engine power! but the airplane in in a heap of twisted aluminum!

Reviewing the pilots log books and speaking with instructors showed
them competent.
yet a big hole in the ground and guts everywhere!

(I myself have had TWO total electrical outages in aircraft and TWO
vac pump outages! : when a Vac pump hits about 500 hours....watch
out!)


To this VERY DAY is still wonder what happened! the crashes with NO
ANSWERS! I think more pilots get smoked with the above outages
more than anything!

Couple heavy rain, bouncing around, corroded /loose connections and
you have a very serious problem!

Hand held GPS is good??? but when the suction cup antenna falls off
and your fumbling in the cockpit trying to reinstall it, weak
batteries /changing batteries YOU !! are asking BEGGING for
unusual attitudes and Vertigo!

Partial panel is a JOKE! as most turn Coordinators flop around the
damping fluid is dried up
the rotor is not up to speed

Reviewing many crash log books I can tell you that the 'lowly'
Turn Coordinator get changed only when its DEAD!

Yet when the Vac system is out YOUR life depends on an instrument
that gets almost no attention...... unless its DEAD!

As an aside, when was the last time ALL of the tubing in the Vaccum
system was replaced??? ALL TUBING! and flexible hoses????
filters????? the VAC pump????

Do you send out the Gyros for regular overhauls???

YOUR LIFE IS ON THE LINE...don't be CHEAP!

Have you EVER had a REAL true case of Vertigo!!!!!! in REAL
IFR?????

No heads down, 5 minute worth training bull****!! ....... FOR
REAL!!!! ..... it last a LONG time and produces exceedingly STRONG
feelings when you get it for REAL!

Let me tell you when you get a REAL good 'TRUE TO LIFE' case of
it......... Vertigo you are in the fight of your life! now throw
in some partial panel, portable GPS falling on the floor, suction
cup pops off the windshield and STRESS Your Pax asking questions
and getting ALARMED and agitated....... puking all over the place
You manage to get upside down

( only takes seconds) and you have HAD IT!...the Turn coordinator
will show wings LEVEL! yet the airspeed is going UP !!! altimeter
unwinding FAST You pull back and the airspeed INCREASES! now
Confusion??????????? brain lock??? panic... then VNE ...


Them some FAA & NTSB inspector like me at the crash site WONDERING
what happened!

If you fly IFR get a stand by vac system installed! no bull
****!..... get it done!

Even a $ 60 Venturi ( be aware of icing) system driving a second
Horizion gyro is BETTER than partial panel!

Thoughts????

Please: No 'macho' pilots... Just REAL pilots who understand
this stuff is serious!

[Robert M. Gary]

On Mar 28, 7:53*am, wrote:
> *The point of Standy by Vac & electrical *is very valid! * I have
> investigated many IFR accidents *with no indication as to WHY!

So, let me understand your point. *IF* my electrical system fails
*AND* my vac system goes out *AND* "suction cup antenna falls off " my
GPS panel; then I may not be capable of IFR. Are you serious or are
you just a troll? How many cases have you seen in which all 3 failed
at the same time?

-Robert, CFII

[Ron Natalie]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Mar 28, 7:53 am, wrote:
>> The point of Standy by Vac & electrical is very valid! I have
>> investigated many IFR accidents with no indication as to WHY!
>
> So, let me understand your point. *IF* my electrical system fails
> *AND* my vac system goes out *AND* "suction cup antenna falls off " my
> GPS panel; then I may not be capable of IFR. Are you serious or are
> you just a troll? How many cases have you seen in which all 3 failed
> at the same time?
>
> -Robert, CFII
>
And the static system plugs up...

[Mike Isaksen]

> wrote ...
> .... I have investigated many IFR accidents with no
> indication as to WHY! ........ <lots clipped>
> .......
> Them some FAA & NTSB inspector like me at the crash
> site WONDERING what happened!
>
> Thoughts????

Dear David F,
I have no reason to doubt your pilot skills and experience, and your claim
to two total electric failures might explain your hyper-anxiety. But I
wonder if you aren't stretching your qualifications a bit with the claim of
being both an FAA and an NTSB Inspector.

[Blanche]

Ron Natalie > wrote:
>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> On Mar 28, 7:53 am, wrote:
>>> The point of Standy by Vac & electrical is very valid! I have
>>> investigated many IFR accidents with no indication as to WHY!
>>
>> So, let me understand your point. *IF* my electrical system fails
>> *AND* my vac system goes out *AND* "suction cup antenna falls off " my
>> GPS panel; then I may not be capable of IFR. Are you serious or are
>> you just a troll? How many cases have you seen in which all 3 failed
>> at the same time?
>>
>> -Robert, CFII
>>
>And the static system plugs up...

And the flaps are inop....

[Michael[_1_]]

On Mar 28, 12:42*pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:
> I have no reason to doubt your pilot skills and experience, and your claim
> to two total electric failures might explain your hyper-anxiety.

Nah. I've had two total electricals, two partial engine failures and
one total, and one total vacuum failure, and I'm not particularly
anxious. These things happen when your hours are well into 4 digits
flying stuff mostly built before you were born. What's more, the
vacuum failure was in a twin (as was one of the electricals), and was
the result of two independent point failures. First the vacuum pump
on the left engine quit - but since I was on top, still had one good
one on the right engine, and was going home anyway, I elected to
continue. Then the right engine quit for unrelated reasons. That put
me in a single-engine, partial panel situation. Also, tops were above
my single engine service ceiling. And there was icing in the clouds.
And there I was, single engine, partial panel, shooting an ILS while
ice was building.

All I could think of was that song by Pink Floyd
"Ice is forming on the tips of my wings
Unheeded warnings I thought I thought of everything"

Fly long enough, **** will happen. Train hard enough, and when it
does you get a story to tell, not a closed casket funeral. I shot the
ILS and landed, no drama. It's the marginal pilots that get anxious.
Of course that's about all the FAA has, except for a few old timers.
Once knew a good pilot who joined the FAA. Didn't last - they drove
him out pretty quick.

> But I
> wonder if you aren't stretching your qualifications a bit with the claim of
> being both an FAA and an NTSB Inspector.

Well, the NTSB routinely delegates the accident investigation of GA
accidents to the FAA, and a lot of those guys like to puff up their
importance by claiming to be NTSB investigators - which they
technically are, by delegation.

See, all of you assume he's just a troll and not an ex-FAA employee at
all, but having seen what they've got working at the local FSDO, I'm
perfectly prepared to believe he worked there. He'd fit right in.
Certainly his level of aviation knowledge matches the typical
inspector.

Michael

[Robert M. Gary]

On Mar 28, 1:25*pm, Michael > wrote:
> On Mar 28, 12:42*pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:
>
> > I have no reason to doubt your pilot skills and experience, and your claim
> > to two total electric failures might explain your hyper-anxiety.
>
> Nah. *I've had two total electricals, two partial engine failures and
> one total, and one total vacuum failure, and I'm not particularly
> anxious.

I figure if you lose your vac and electrical at the same time God is
punishing you. Your best bet at that point is probably to pray ;)

-Robert

[B A R R Y]

On 28 Mar 2008 18:39:17 GMT, Blanche > wrote:

>Ron Natalie > wrote:
>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> On Mar 28, 7:53 am, wrote:
>>>> The point of Standy by Vac & electrical is very valid! I have
>>>> investigated many IFR accidents with no indication as to WHY!
>>>
>>> So, let me understand your point. *IF* my electrical system fails
>>> *AND* my vac system goes out *AND* "suction cup antenna falls off " my
>>> GPS panel; then I may not be capable of IFR. Are you serious or are
>>> you just a troll? How many cases have you seen in which all 3 failed
>>> at the same time?
>>>
>>> -Robert, CFII
>>>
>>And the static system plugs up...
>
>And the flaps are inop....

And the left wheel fell off at rotation...

[Robert M. Gary]

On Mar 28, 7:53*am, wrote:
> *The point of Standy by Vac & electrical *is very valid! * I have
> investigated many IFR accidents *with no indication as to WHY!
>
> *No radio calls no nothing!
>


I have a friend in the CHP that investigates car accidents. Often
times there is an accident where there is no sign of malfunction of
the car, skidding, etc. The one common element of all these accidents
is that they involve cars. The best bet to ensure your safety would
therefor be to avoid riding in a car.

-Robert

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:11:48 -0400, B A R R Y >
wrote:

> On 28 Mar 2008 18:39:17 GMT, Blanche > wrote:
>
> >Ron Natalie > wrote:
> >>Robert M. Gary wrote:
> >>> On Mar 28, 7:53 am, wrote:
> >>>> The point of Standy by Vac & electrical is very valid! I have
> >>>> investigated many IFR accidents with no indication as to WHY!
> >>>
> >>> So, let me understand your point. *IF* my electrical system fails
> >>> *AND* my vac system goes out *AND* "suction cup antenna falls off " my
> >>> GPS panel; then I may not be capable of IFR. Are you serious or are
> >>> you just a troll? How many cases have you seen in which all 3 failed
> >>> at the same time?
> >>>
> >>> -Robert, CFII
> >>>
> >>And the static system plugs up...
> >
> >And the flaps are inop....
>
> And the left wheel fell off at rotation...

"Then the storm broke out in all its fury...and the dam broke! And then the
volcano erupted!"

- Daffy Duck, "The Scarlet Pumpernickel," 1948

Ron Wanttaja

[Ray Andraka]

Michael wrote:
> On Mar 28, 12:42 pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:

> vacuum failure was in a twin (as was one of the electricals), and was
> the result of two independent point failures. First the vacuum pump
> on the left engine quit - but since I was on top, still had one good
> one on the right engine, and was going home anyway, I elected to
> continue. Then the right engine quit for unrelated reasons. That put
> me in a single-engine, partial panel situation. Also, tops were above
> my single engine service ceiling. And there was icing in the clouds.
> And there I was, single engine, partial panel, shooting an ILS while
> ice was building.


Sounds to me like you need to be spending a bit more on aircraft
maintenance.

[Michael[_1_]]

On Apr 4, 12:27*pm, Ray Andraka > wrote:
> * Sounds to me like you need to be spending a bit more on aircraft
> maintenance.

You might think so, but the reality is that both electricals were on
planes I had just bought (lots of prior neglect), the vacuum failures
were both dry pumps failing without warning (I suppose you could argue
that they should be replaced prophylactically, but they have an infant
mortality rate, and I do have two), and the engine failures were one
on a plane I didn't own and two due to fuel contamination. No
maintenance related failures ever.

Michael

[Mike Isaksen]

Wow Ray, bad "snip effort". I definitely didn't write that.

"Ray Andraka" wrote ...
>
>> On Mar 28, 12:42 pm, "Mike Isaksen" > wrote:
>
>> vacuum failure was in a twin (as was one of the electricals), and was
>> the result of two independent point failures. First the vacuum pump
>> on the left engine quit - but since I was on top, still had one good
>> one on the right engine, and was going home anyway, I elected to
>> continue. Then the right engine quit for unrelated reasons. That put
>> me in a single-engine, partial panel situation. Also, tops were above
>> my single engine service ceiling. And there was icing in the clouds.
>> And there I was, single engine, partial panel, shooting an ILS while
>> ice was building.
>
>
> Sounds to me like you need to be spending a bit more on aircraft
> maintenance.