MARK nomenclature

[David]

What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?

[Andrew Chaplin]

David wrote:
>
> What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
> equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
> of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?

Interesting question. I think it's a borrowing from French. I'd like
to hear an authoritative explanation too.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[John R Weiss]

"Andrew Chaplin" > wrote...
>>
>> What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
>> equipment ?
>
> Interesting question. I think it's a borrowing from French.

Either that or some GS-eleventeen named "Mark" who wrote the procurement
manual... ;-)

[Keith Willshaw]

"David" > wrote in message
...
> What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate
military
> equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or
meaning
> of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>
>

Possibly from the Anglo Saxon Merc which referred to a
visible sign, marker or boundary.

Alternatively Mark is the English equivalent of Marcus
which indicates an affinity with Mars the Roman god of war

Keith

[Tex Houston]

"David" > wrote in message
...
> What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate
military
> equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or
meaning
> of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?

Since the "American Heritage Dictionary" has as one of entries under mark...

c. Capital M. A particular mode, brand, size, or quality of a product.
Usually followed by a designation such as a numeral and used attributively:
This automobile is the Mark X model.

Combined with the nautical meaning of mark (A knot or piece of material
placed at various measured lengths on a lead line to indicate the depth of
the water.) I think it is simply a way of distinguishing one model from
another, nothing more.

Regards,

Tex (who is assuming you REALLY wanted to know about the Marks of military
aircraft as this is not a general military forum)

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

David wrote:
>
> What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
> equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
> of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?

I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
the MK 1 Mod 0 Walleye TV-guided glide bomb, sometimes referred
to as the AGM-62. Think of a big Maverick (AGM-65) missile but
with a bigger warhead and RAT generator instead of the rocket motor.
The Maverick used nearly the same video specs as the earlier
Walleye.

[Kevin Brooks]

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
> >
> > What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate
military
> > equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy
uses
> > the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or
meaning
> > of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>
> I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
> out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
> the MK 1 Mod 0 Walleye TV-guided glide bomb, sometimes referred
> to as the AGM-62. Think of a big Maverick (AGM-65) missile but
> with a bigger warhead and RAT generator instead of the rocket motor.
> The Maverick used nearly the same video specs as the earlier
> Walleye.

Numerous nuclear warheads, and most freefall nuclear bombs (up to/thru
Mk-43, where they started calling things "B-43" in some sources), used the
"Mark" identification. I believe the Mk-28 was still in use while you were
in service?

Brooks

[Guy Alcala]

Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:

> David wrote:
> >
> > What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
> > equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> > the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
> > of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>
> I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
> out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
> the MK 1 Mod 0 Walleye TV-guided glide bomb, sometimes referred
> to as the AGM-62. Think of a big Maverick (AGM-65) missile but
> with a bigger warhead and RAT generator instead of the rocket motor.
> The Maverick used nearly the same video specs as the earlier
> Walleye.

The Mark system was used by BuOrd (the USN's Bureau of Ordnance) to designate
weapons and related systems that they designed (or were designed at their behest),
which included Walleye. The Mk. 80 series bombs are another BuOrd weapon (M-series
bombs like the M117 are Army or Air Force derived). Things get more complicated
because not all navy weapons were designed by BuOrd, and other Bureaus (e.g.
BuAer) used other designation systems. Theoretically the Mark series should have
gone away when the tri-service designations took over in 1962, but remnants of it
remain in use.

Guy

[Guy Alcala]

Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:

> David wrote:
> >
> > What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
> > equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
> > the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
> > of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>
> I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
> out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
> the MK 1 Mod 0 Walleye TV-guided glide bomb, sometimes referred
> to as the AGM-62. Think of a big Maverick (AGM-65) missile but
> with a bigger warhead and RAT generator instead of the rocket motor.
> The Maverick used nearly the same video specs as the earlier
> Walleye.

The Mark system was used by BuOrd (the USN's Bureau of Ordnance) to designate
weapons and related systems that they designed (or were designed at their behest),
which included Walleye. The Mk. 80 series bombs are another BuOrd weapon (M-series
bombs like the M117 are Army or Air Force derived). Things get more complicated
because not all navy weapons were designed by BuOrd, and other Bureaus (e.g.
BuAer) used other designation systems. Theoretically the Mark series should have
gone away when the tri-service designations took over in 1962, but remnants of it
remain in use.

Guy

[Krztalizer]

>Theoretically the Mark series should have
>gone away when the tri-service designations took over in 1962, but remnants
>of it
>remain in use.

....such as in all types of USN torpedoes in use today. Not to mention
thousands of Mk 82s (and dozens of other weapon types).

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[Andreas Parsch]

Guy Alcala wrote:

>
> The Mark system was used by BuOrd (the USN's Bureau of Ordnance) to designate
> weapons and related systems that they designed (or were designed at their behest),
> which included Walleye. The Mk. 80 series bombs are another BuOrd weapon (M-series
> bombs like the M117 are Army or Air Force derived). Things get more complicated
> because not all navy weapons were designed by BuOrd, and other Bureaus (e.g.
> BuAer) used other designation systems.


Today, NAVSEA (Naval Sea Systems Command) designates "its" items by
MARK/MOD nomenclature, while NAVAIR (Naval Air Systems Command) uses
ASETDS (Aeronautical and Support Equipment Type Designation System).
ASETDS includes, but is not limited to, the xxU-style designations for
bombs etc. (e.g. BLU, GBU).

> Theoretically the Mark series should have
> gone away when the tri-service designations took over in 1962, but remnants of it
> remain in use.


It remains in use for _a lot_ of U.S. Naval equipment - e.g.
torpedoes, mines, projectiles, etc.

The "tri-service designations of 1962" which you refer applied only to
aircraft and (from 1963) missiles. The "new" designations for
air-dropped ordnance (BLU, GBU, etc) were formally introduced in late
1966. This is also the reason why the Walleye was designated with
MARK/MOD and not as GBU-<xxx> - there was no GBU designator at that time.

Andreas

[Cub Driver]

Mark is one of those words that take up whole columns in dictionaries.
The basic meaning here is "boundary". In the Shorter Oxford, we come
down to meaning III 16:

A particular brand, make, or design of an article, esp ... a
manufactured product (as a car or aeroplane, etc.) as represented at a
particular stage in its design and development."

Middle 17th century!

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 22:04:49 GMT, "David" > wrote:

>What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate military
>equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy uses
>the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or meaning
>of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Cub Driver]

>I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
>out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:

The U.S. Army "marks" just about everything, from the M-1 rifle on up.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Kevin Brooks]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
> >out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
>
> The U.S. Army "marks" just about everything, from the M-1 rifle on up.

I believe the current definition behind that "M" in the Army is "model", not
"mark".

Brooks

>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email:
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[Andreas Parsch]

Kevin Brooks wrote:

>
> I believe the current definition behind that "M" in the Army is "model", not
> "mark".


I don't know if there is a current definition, but the original
meaning (when introduced in the early 20th century) was indeed "model".

Andreas

[Andrew Chaplin]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> Mark is one of those words that take up whole columns in dictionaries.
> The basic meaning here is "boundary". In the Shorter Oxford, we come
> down to meaning III 16:
>
> A particular brand, make, or design of an article, esp ... a
> manufactured product (as a car or aeroplane, etc.) as represented at a
> particular stage in its design and development."
>
> Middle 17th century!

From the OED:

mark, n.^1

c. In earlier use: a particular make, design, or size of an article
(originally identified by the maker with a particular device, stamp,
etc.). Now chiefly (freq. as Mark followed by a numeral, abbreviated
Mk.): a version or model of a manufactured product, representing a
particular stage in its design and development; freq. fig. Mark I
colloq., first class.

Cf. MARQUE n.2 1.

1488 Cely Papers (1900) 201 Bespeke me xij dosun payre of loven [=
louvain] glovis ij dosun of the marke of ij, iij dosun of the marke of
iiij. 1669 S. STURMY Mariners Mag. V. xii. 68 In regard of the several
differences of the length and marks, or Diameter of her Base and
Muzzle-ring, no certain proportion can be generally assigned. 1758
Monthly Rev. 204 The prices of Grinding..and Diamond-cutting the several
Marks or Sizes [of plate glass]. 1837 N. WHITTOCK et al. Compl. Bk.
Trades (1842) 225 The very heavy files..are made of inferior marks of
blistered steel. 1888 Treat. Mil. Small Arms & Ammunition 52 Enfield
Revolver Pistol, Mark II. 1899 Kynoch Jrnl. Oct.-Nov. 12/1 Despite the
unfortunate failures at Edinburgh and Bisley of the bullet known as Mark
IV. 1904 Speaker 11 June 240/2 The same mark varies so much from year to
year that no one would dare to purchase without examining a sample bale
[of wool]. 1914 Times Bk. Navy vii. 99 The gun has progressed through
successive stages, or 'marks' as they are technically known. Marks 3, 4,
5, and 5w were 'built' guns. 1926 L. NASON Chevrons 120 This is going to
be a real, old issue, Mark I scrap. 1942 W. S. CHURCHILL in Second World
War (1951) IV. 768 There should be no difficulty in sparing 1,000 tanks
and 1,000 anti-tank and A.A. guns. No doubt older marks might form the
bulk. 1948 'N. SHUTE' No Highway i. 7 The Mark I model [sc. an aeroplane]
which went into production first had radial engines. 1974 Economist 21
Dec. 29/3 They are calling him [sc. Helmut Schmidt] Kissinger Mark II.
1975 J. SYMONS Three Pipe Probl. xv. 129 For his white clients Riverboat
often played the role of American Negro, Mark One. 1994 D. HEALY Goat's
Song ii. 24 The first time it was a Lee Enfield .303 mark I with
sights... The second time it was a Lee Enfield .303 mark 2 with sights
and a light intensifier. Things had improved in the meantime.
--
As I suspected, a borrowing from the French.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Pete]

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
> >
> > What is the history and meaning behind the work "MARK" to designate
military
> > equipment ? The web site www.designation-systems.net says the Navy
uses
> > the Mark - Mod nomenclature but doesn't say what the significance or
meaning
> > of the word "Mark" is. Does anybody know ?
>
> I've only seen one such designation, on a weapon - and it passed
> out of our on-base inventory sometime in the late 1970s:
> the MK 1 Mod 0 Walleye TV-guided glide bomb, sometimes referred
> to as the AGM-62.

And MK-82 & -84.

Pete

[H. Dziardziel]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:08:43 -0500, "Andrew Chaplin"
> wrote:


>As I suspected, a borrowing from the French.

Merriam Webster's 3rd Unabridged
Excerpt from a long list of definitions:

(9) usually capitalized [German marke mark, label, brand, from
Old High German marha boundary] — used with a numeral to
designate a particular model of a weapon, machine, or article of
equipment *this nuclear power plant, known as Mark I— Birmingham
(Ala.) News* — abbr. Mk
etc..

[Howard Berkowitz]

In article >, Andreas Parsch >
wrote:

> Guy Alcala wrote:
>
> >
> > The Mark system was used by BuOrd (the USN's Bureau of Ordnance) to
> > designate
> > weapons and related systems that they designed (or were designed at
> > their behest),
> > which included Walleye. The Mk. 80 series bombs are another BuOrd
> > weapon (M-series
> > bombs like the M117 are Army or Air Force derived). Things get more
> > complicated
> > because not all navy weapons were designed by BuOrd, and other Bureaus
> > (e.g.
> > BuAer) used other designation systems.
>
>
> Today, NAVSEA (Naval Sea Systems Command) designates "its" items by
> MARK/MOD nomenclature, while NAVAIR (Naval Air Systems Command) uses
> ASETDS (Aeronautical and Support Equipment Type Designation System).
> ASETDS includes, but is not limited to, the xxU-style designations for
> bombs etc. (e.g. BLU, GBU).
>
> > Theoretically the Mark series should have
> > gone away when the tri-service designations took over in 1962, but
> > remnants of it
> > remain in use.
>
>
> It remains in use for _a lot_ of U.S. Naval equipment - e.g.
> torpedoes, mines, projectiles, etc.
>
> The "tri-service designations of 1962" which you refer applied only to
> aircraft and (from 1963) missiles. The "new" designations for
> air-dropped ordnance (BLU, GBU, etc) were formally introduced in late
> 1966. This is also the reason why the Walleye was designated with
> MARK/MOD and not as GBU-<xxx> - there was no GBU designator at that time.

Is that this is intended to confuse the enemy, or that the Army is
defined as the enemy?