hi-speed ejections

[Bill McClain]

My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

[Mike Marron]

(Bill McClain) wrote:

>My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
>he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
>possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
>the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
>runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
>isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
>altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

Subject: F-15...Longish
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Date: 2003-10-03 19:22:42 PST

Captain Brian Udell, an F-15E fighter pilot will acknowledge the
anniversary of that fateful night without celebration because his
Weapons Officer, Captain Dennis White, was killed during his ejection
- or drowned after parachuting into a heavy sea at night.

Udell miraculously survived one of the fastest known ejections in
history at more than 780 mph. But exposing his body to the impact of
supersonic speed had its special price tag.

On a pitch dark evening, Udell and White took off from Seymour-Johnson
AFB, in a four-ship formation. Their F-15E's were missioned to fly out
over the Atlantic, split into pairs, then turn and engage. " We'd turn
around and come at each other like we were in a jousting match", said
Udell. But that dark night, they had to rely totally on their internal
radar to ensure they'd never fly dangerously close to the opposing
pair.

Udell and White were in one of those turns when their tragic saga
began. "I was reading my heads-up display, and it showed me in a
60-degree turn with my nose tilted 10 degrees down and going 400 knots
at 4,000 feet. Perfect ," Udell said. "But as we're in this turn, I
start hearing a wind rush - sort of like the sound you hear when
you're increasing your speed down the highway and
have to turn up your radio. But in a jet, this kind of wind rush
usually comes when you're accelerating in excess of 500 knots." "I
flipped on the electronic attitude direction indicator. It tells you
if you're going up or down, making a right or left turn, going upside
down or right side up, how fast you're going, and what altitude you're
at. And it says I'm headed straight for the earth at about 600 knots
[nearly 700 mph]."

Because he didn't know which set of instruments was telling the truth,
Udell moved his controls .. back and forth. The electronic back up
system changed, but the heads-up display was stuck .. and they were
screaming down toward the dark ocean below like a giant lawn dart.

" The minimum altitude before ejecting out of an out-of-control
aircraft is 10,000 feet. And the maximum safe ejection using our ACES
II ejection seat was 600 knots. So I had to make a quick decision."

"By this time we had penetrated 10,000 feet . . and we were exceeding
600 knots," on a a pitch black night, with no horizon to work with. I
shouted : ' Bail out ! Bail out ! A second or two later, while
descending rapidly through 4,500 feet and traveling faster than a
rifle bullet . . White ejected.

Passing through 3,000 feet at more than 780 mph - the pilot Udell
ejected into the black. " I made the decision to bail out at 10,000
feet, got into good position and pulled the handles at 6,000 feet,
left the aircraft at 3,000 feet, and got my parachute open at just
under 1,000 feet," he said, taking a deep breath. "So if you crunch
the numbers, I had about a half second to spare.
If I'd waited for more than a half second, I would have impacted the
water still in the seat," he added [ clapping his hands together in a
sobering smack that echoed through the room].

As Udell floated to earth at the end of a parachute, he couldn't
remember pounding into those granite-hard shock waves as his
unarmored body pierced the sonic barrier. Those three seconds that
sent all 190 pounds of him hurtling at a supersonic velocity appear
mercifully lost forever." I don't know if it was because of the trauma
my body went through, or the terror of : ' This is happening ! ' " he
said [ his eyes widening.]

Now, slowly descending, Udell felt as though he'd been struck by a
train. His helmet and oxygen mask had been ripped from his head. His
gloves and watch also were torn off. With the zippers still closed,
his wallet and a water bottle had flown through his G-suit pockets.
Beneath his flight suit, his T-shirt was shredded and his shoes laces
were imbedded into the leather.

Udell had no clue to the extent of his injuries, and began going
through his post-ejection checklist. " You check the parachute canopy
to make sure it's deployed properly ," said Udell. " I wasn't dropping
like a rock, I figured it must be OK. and no visor or oxygen mask to
be concerned with since my entire helmet had been blown off." He
attempted to inflate his life preserver, but it had been shredded in
the ejection. He figured he'd better reel in his life raft [that
automatically deploys during ejection] to ensure he had some kind of
flotation device when entering the water. That's when he discovered
his left arm was injured. He hauled in the raft with his teeth and
right arm. "Just about the time I got my hand on the raft, I hit the
water."

His struggle to get into the raft then began. He'd been trained in
different techniques to board the one-man boat, but with four good
limbs. He was down to one. An even that one limb had been dislocated .
.. but somehow a shoulder had popped back into place.

After making several unsuccessful attempts, before he simply
stopped struggling and started praying. "This was
notput-your-hands-together-and-bow-your-head-praying," Udell
said candidly. "This was face-to-face, ' Hey, God . . I need your
help' kind of praying."

He gave it one more try, and somehow managed to inch his way onto the
life raft. Sitting inside the rubber boat, he had his right leg
straight out in front of him except for the part below the knee which
dangled at an obscene 90-degree angle over the side. With his single
good arm he grabbed the lower leg and jerked it into the raft. It
flopped 180 degrees in the other direction. He adjusted it until the
entire limb pointed the same direction. Then he did the
same for his left ankle that had twisted around 180 degrees in another
direction. " There was just nothing fastening them all togeth-er and
the skin around them was distended out of proportion," he said,
shaking his head.

Once he had crudely immobilized both useless legs and his useless left
arm, Udell searched his 6-foot 1 frame for other injuries. Finding
nothing life-threatening he let his training take over and clicked
into a prevent-shock mode. Out of an emergency pack he drank some
water .. then he tried to get warm.

" When the raft deploys, only the main donut ring inflates," he
explained. " The raft's bottom and the side spray shields must each be
manually inflated. Otherwise, I'm still hanging down in the water, and
the waves were crashing over me."

At that point, chilled to the bone, Udell tried to inflate the bottom
section of the raft. "But when I first put the inflation tube in my
mouth and tried to blow, I couldn't create a seal around the tube," he
said. " I reached up and touched my face for the first time and it
felt like a dish of kid's Play Dough. My lips were especially
deformed. During the ejection, some blood vessels
and underlying soft tissue in my face had burst and my whole face had
no definition."

Despite his desperate situation, he laughed when considered that he
looked like Mush Mouth in a Fat Albert cartoon. "I stuck the tube back
in my mouth," he said, still chuckling. " but the only way I could get
a seal around the tube was to hold it between my teeth then clamp my
fingers of my one good around my lips. My lips protruded beyond my
hand's first three fingers, so they were hanging out there pretty
far."

Udell inflated the bottom of the raft, and finally puffed up the spray
shields. And after bailing out water with plastic bags from his
survival kit, he finally began to warm." I was exhausted and wanted to
sleep . . but was afraid I'd never wake up again," he said.

Meanwhile, the three other F-15E crews, incredibly had managed to
pinpoint the crash site [within two miles] based on his last radio
communications. The Coast Guard was on the way.

Udell spent four hours in the night water before a Coast Guard
helicopter found him. Even though his bulging lips could barely form
the syllables, Udell kept hollering out to the empty sea for his
flightmate: " DENNNNNNISSS ! " ...
No answer. He also thought of his wife, Kristi who was four months
pregnant with their first child.

Using an emergency radio, he directed the Coast Guard helicopter to
his location. " Because I didn't want the rotor wash to knock me out
of the raft, I asked them not to (hover) too close," he said. Aviation
Survivalman Jim Peterson fished Udell out of the raft and fastened him
into a litter. "He was in a lot of pain, but he just bit his lip and
dealt with it," Peterson said. "I even accidently bumped his legs a
few times, but he never complained. Considering
that he was all busted up . . he was a very strong man." Later, Udell
admitted, he was so weakened by his exertion in the cold water he'd
had difficulty pushing down the emergency radio button.

And now cold struck again. " When he [Peterson] secured me in the
litter, the helicopter flew overhead and lowered its winch, its rotors
kicked up the wind and waves, and spray that felt like steel needles
were hitting me and also created an effective air conditioner, giving
me another big chill. However, I finally got pulled aboard, so I owe
those guys a lot."

Once in the helicopter, the Coast Guard rescue crew rushed the downed
pilot to the nearest hospital. " When I arrived at the hospital, it
seemed like 20 or 30 doctors and female nurses surrounded me," Udell
said. " Within seconds I was buck naked, and all I could think about
was that good ol' mom advice : ' Brian, make sure you have clean
underwear on because you never know when you'll
be in an accident.' "

Soon an orthopedic surgeon walks in. He looks at the X-ray. "Right
knee dislocated. Left ankle broken. Left arm dislocated," the doctor
said. "I'm thinking, 'All right, pain medication,' " Udell said
wistfully. "But without a hi, hello or how are you, that doctor walks
up to me, grabs my right knee, and POP ! He snaps it back into place.
I start screaming. Then he goes to my left ankle, POP ! I'm screaming
even louder. Then he takes my left arm , POP ! " Doctors finally
administered morphine, and he slipped into a happy place.

Kristi Udell arrived in the hospital emergency room just as her
husband began wailing in anguish. The doctor explained to her what was
happening. "When I saw him, he looked vaguely familiar," Kristi said,
shuddering at the thought. "His face was puffed up to the size of a
basketball, and he had a gash that went across his eye." "How do I
look?" he asked. "Great," she lied. In addition to his mangled face
and broken and dislocated limbs .. he had a gash across his chest ..
broken rib ..the back of his right thigh also had been slashed open ..
both arms were a grotesque black and blue .. and various other
scrapes, cuts and bruises maligned his body.

But he was alive.

During his first few hours in the hospital, the Udells found out White
hadn't been so lucky. The violent force of the ejection killed him
instantly. Still choking up at the memory, Udell said,"That was a
depressing time for me. I'd held up pretty good until then. But when I
found out he was dead, I just lost it. Dennis had left a wife and two
kids."

Doctors gave Udell additional morphine to help him sleep.
Unfortunately, the drug caused him to dream. " I dreamt someone jumped
on my leg, and the thought made me jerk and I popped my left knee
popped back out of its socket." Because his leg was already in a cast,
it wasn't until three days later that doctors found the knee
dislocated once again. " My kneecap was swollen to the size
of a cantaloupe and laid over to the side kind of funny," Udell said.
His tendons and ligaments had been torn apart, so nothing held his
knee in place. It snapped out of joint three more times before they
managed to cast it again. After the swelling went down, two titanium
rods had to be temporarily inserted into the knee to help hold it in
place and keep it immobilized.

After four surgeries and with six stainless steel screws in each leg,
Udell began intensive physical therapy and his trek to walk . . and
maybe even fly again. Nearly two months after the accident, he took
his first step.

"I didn't want to just lie around," Udell said. " I'd get in my
wheelchair and wheel myself down to physical therapy every morning and
work out for about an hour. Then I'd do the same thing in the
afternoon. By the time I wheeled myself back to my hospital room that
evening, I was exhausted and would go right to sleep." For months,
Udell increased his rehabilitation workouts until he was riding a
bike, lifting weights, doing water exercises and other various
muscle-building routines eight to ten hours each day. By the sixth
month, he felt he was ready to fly again .. it was something nobody
had thought possible.

"Some people get depressed when going through the slow rehabilitation
process," said Kriquette Alexander, senior program director where
Udell performed much of his rehab. "But Brian was an inspiration to
everyone. He pushed himself. And was very focused. He's a cool
critter."

Even after so much progress, a skeptical medical board still had to be
convinced that he was ready to fly again. "They took me and a
'healthy' guy out to an airplane to demonstrate an emergency ground
egress out of the aircraft," Udell said smugly. "We had to pretend the
aircraft was on fire .. unstrap .. jump overboard .. and run 50 yards
away. They timed us both. I beat the other guy by 10 seconds."

Ten months after the injury, after going through a battery of tests
and getting waivers for the metal screws he'd carry for the rest of
his life, Udell flew again. On his second flight, he soared back over
the same area where he crashed. "I was just so excited to get back in
the cockpit, I didn't have time to get scared," said Udell, whose
father, retired Air Force Colonel Maurice Udell, taught him to fly
when he was 9. "I just love to fly. It's all I ever wanted to do."

Although Brian is back in the cockpit, he still has to go through
stringent medical exams each year to stay on flying status. That's
because the injuries to his limbs make him highly susceptible to
degenerative arthritis. But for Udell, who had graduated at the top of
his undergraduate pilot training class and had a strong resume package
into the Thunderbirds before the crash, flying is no longer the number
one priority in his life. He said, " When I clung onto that raft for
dear life, I wasn't thinking about flying or drinking beer with my
buddies. I prayed to God that he would let me see my wife again, and
be there when my child was born."

His first son was born while he labored through rehabilitation. In the
hospital room during his first son's birth, the baby's head just made
its way out into this world when he opened his eyes and looked up at
his father. Brian's eyes welled up with tears . . it was God's answer
to one of Udell's desperate prayers.

[From the "FIGHTER PILOT" email list.]

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Wow!!

[Tony]

"Bill McClain" > wrote in message
om...
> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

I attended a talk by an SR-71 pilot a little while back and,
according to him, people have safely ejected from an SR-71
at speed and altitude.

Tony

[fudog50]

Incredible story Mike, Thanks!


On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:57:11 GMT, Mike Marron >
wrote:

(Bill McClain) wrote:
>
>>My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
>>he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
>>possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
>>the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
>>runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
>>isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
>>altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?
>
>Subject: F-15...Longish
>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
>Date: 2003-10-03 19:22:42 PST
>
>Captain Brian Udell, an F-15E fighter pilot will acknowledge the
>anniversary of that fateful night without celebration because his
>Weapons Officer, Captain Dennis White, was killed during his ejection
>- or drowned after parachuting into a heavy sea at night.
>
>Udell miraculously survived one of the fastest known ejections in
>history at more than 780 mph. But exposing his body to the impact of
>supersonic speed had its special price tag.
>
>On a pitch dark evening, Udell and White took off from Seymour-Johnson
>AFB, in a four-ship formation. Their F-15E's were missioned to fly out
>over the Atlantic, split into pairs, then turn and engage. " We'd turn
>around and come at each other like we were in a jousting match", said
>Udell. But that dark night, they had to rely totally on their internal
>radar to ensure they'd never fly dangerously close to the opposing
>pair.
>
>Udell and White were in one of those turns when their tragic saga
>began. "I was reading my heads-up display, and it showed me in a
>60-degree turn with my nose tilted 10 degrees down and going 400 knots
>at 4,000 feet. Perfect ," Udell said. "But as we're in this turn, I
>start hearing a wind rush - sort of like the sound you hear when
>you're increasing your speed down the highway and
>have to turn up your radio. But in a jet, this kind of wind rush
>usually comes when you're accelerating in excess of 500 knots." "I
>flipped on the electronic attitude direction indicator. It tells you
>if you're going up or down, making a right or left turn, going upside
>down or right side up, how fast you're going, and what altitude you're
>at. And it says I'm headed straight for the earth at about 600 knots
>[nearly 700 mph]."
>
>Because he didn't know which set of instruments was telling the truth,
>Udell moved his controls .. back and forth. The electronic back up
>system changed, but the heads-up display was stuck .. and they were
>screaming down toward the dark ocean below like a giant lawn dart.
>
>" The minimum altitude before ejecting out of an out-of-control
>aircraft is 10,000 feet. And the maximum safe ejection using our ACES
>II ejection seat was 600 knots. So I had to make a quick decision."
>
>"By this time we had penetrated 10,000 feet . . and we were exceeding
>600 knots," on a a pitch black night, with no horizon to work with. I
>shouted : ' Bail out ! Bail out ! A second or two later, while
>descending rapidly through 4,500 feet and traveling faster than a
>rifle bullet . . White ejected.
>
>Passing through 3,000 feet at more than 780 mph - the pilot Udell
>ejected into the black. " I made the decision to bail out at 10,000
>feet, got into good position and pulled the handles at 6,000 feet,
>left the aircraft at 3,000 feet, and got my parachute open at just
>under 1,000 feet," he said, taking a deep breath. "So if you crunch
>the numbers, I had about a half second to spare.
>If I'd waited for more than a half second, I would have impacted the
>water still in the seat," he added [ clapping his hands together in a
>sobering smack that echoed through the room].
>
>As Udell floated to earth at the end of a parachute, he couldn't
>remember pounding into those granite-hard shock waves as his
>unarmored body pierced the sonic barrier. Those three seconds that
>sent all 190 pounds of him hurtling at a supersonic velocity appear
>mercifully lost forever." I don't know if it was because of the trauma
>my body went through, or the terror of : ' This is happening ! ' " he
>said [ his eyes widening.]
>
>Now, slowly descending, Udell felt as though he'd been struck by a
>train. His helmet and oxygen mask had been ripped from his head. His
>gloves and watch also were torn off. With the zippers still closed,
>his wallet and a water bottle had flown through his G-suit pockets.
>Beneath his flight suit, his T-shirt was shredded and his shoes laces
>were imbedded into the leather.
>
>Udell had no clue to the extent of his injuries, and began going
>through his post-ejection checklist. " You check the parachute canopy
>to make sure it's deployed properly ," said Udell. " I wasn't dropping
>like a rock, I figured it must be OK. and no visor or oxygen mask to
>be concerned with since my entire helmet had been blown off." He
>attempted to inflate his life preserver, but it had been shredded in
>the ejection. He figured he'd better reel in his life raft [that
>automatically deploys during ejection] to ensure he had some kind of
>flotation device when entering the water. That's when he discovered
>his left arm was injured. He hauled in the raft with his teeth and
>right arm. "Just about the time I got my hand on the raft, I hit the
>water."
>
>His struggle to get into the raft then began. He'd been trained in
>different techniques to board the one-man boat, but with four good
>limbs. He was down to one. An even that one limb had been dislocated .
>. but somehow a shoulder had popped back into place.
>
>After making several unsuccessful attempts, before he simply
>stopped struggling and started praying. "This was
>notput-your-hands-together-and-bow-your-head-praying," Udell
>said candidly. "This was face-to-face, ' Hey, God . . I need your
>help' kind of praying."
>
>He gave it one more try, and somehow managed to inch his way onto the
>life raft. Sitting inside the rubber boat, he had his right leg
>straight out in front of him except for the part below the knee which
>dangled at an obscene 90-degree angle over the side. With his single
>good arm he grabbed the lower leg and jerked it into the raft. It
>flopped 180 degrees in the other direction. He adjusted it until the
>entire limb pointed the same direction. Then he did the
>same for his left ankle that had twisted around 180 degrees in another
>direction. " There was just nothing fastening them all togeth-er and
>the skin around them was distended out of proportion," he said,
>shaking his head.
>
>Once he had crudely immobilized both useless legs and his useless left
>arm, Udell searched his 6-foot 1 frame for other injuries. Finding
>nothing life-threatening he let his training take over and clicked
>into a prevent-shock mode. Out of an emergency pack he drank some
>water .. then he tried to get warm.
>
>" When the raft deploys, only the main donut ring inflates," he
>explained. " The raft's bottom and the side spray shields must each be
>manually inflated. Otherwise, I'm still hanging down in the water, and
>the waves were crashing over me."
>
>At that point, chilled to the bone, Udell tried to inflate the bottom
>section of the raft. "But when I first put the inflation tube in my
>mouth and tried to blow, I couldn't create a seal around the tube," he
>said. " I reached up and touched my face for the first time and it
>felt like a dish of kid's Play Dough. My lips were especially
>deformed. During the ejection, some blood vessels
>and underlying soft tissue in my face had burst and my whole face had
>no definition."
>
>Despite his desperate situation, he laughed when considered that he
>looked like Mush Mouth in a Fat Albert cartoon. "I stuck the tube back
>in my mouth," he said, still chuckling. " but the only way I could get
>a seal around the tube was to hold it between my teeth then clamp my
>fingers of my one good around my lips. My lips protruded beyond my
>hand's first three fingers, so they were hanging out there pretty
>far."
>
>Udell inflated the bottom of the raft, and finally puffed up the spray
>shields. And after bailing out water with plastic bags from his
>survival kit, he finally began to warm." I was exhausted and wanted to
>sleep . . but was afraid I'd never wake up again," he said.
>
>Meanwhile, the three other F-15E crews, incredibly had managed to
>pinpoint the crash site [within two miles] based on his last radio
>communications. The Coast Guard was on the way.
>
>Udell spent four hours in the night water before a Coast Guard
>helicopter found him. Even though his bulging lips could barely form
>the syllables, Udell kept hollering out to the empty sea for his
>flightmate: " DENNNNNNISSS ! " ...
>No answer. He also thought of his wife, Kristi who was four months
>pregnant with their first child.
>
>Using an emergency radio, he directed the Coast Guard helicopter to
>his location. " Because I didn't want the rotor wash to knock me out
>of the raft, I asked them not to (hover) too close," he said. Aviation
>Survivalman Jim Peterson fished Udell out of the raft and fastened him
>into a litter. "He was in a lot of pain, but he just bit his lip and
>dealt with it," Peterson said. "I even accidently bumped his legs a
>few times, but he never complained. Considering
>that he was all busted up . . he was a very strong man." Later, Udell
>admitted, he was so weakened by his exertion in the cold water he'd
>had difficulty pushing down the emergency radio button.
>
>And now cold struck again. " When he [Peterson] secured me in the
>litter, the helicopter flew overhead and lowered its winch, its rotors
>kicked up the wind and waves, and spray that felt like steel needles
>were hitting me and also created an effective air conditioner, giving
>me another big chill. However, I finally got pulled aboard, so I owe
>those guys a lot."
>
>Once in the helicopter, the Coast Guard rescue crew rushed the downed
>pilot to the nearest hospital. " When I arrived at the hospital, it
>seemed like 20 or 30 doctors and female nurses surrounded me," Udell
>said. " Within seconds I was buck naked, and all I could think about
>was that good ol' mom advice : ' Brian, make sure you have clean
>underwear on because you never know when you'll
>be in an accident.' "
>
>Soon an orthopedic surgeon walks in. He looks at the X-ray. "Right
>knee dislocated. Left ankle broken. Left arm dislocated," the doctor
>said. "I'm thinking, 'All right, pain medication,' " Udell said
>wistfully. "But without a hi, hello or how are you, that doctor walks
>up to me, grabs my right knee, and POP ! He snaps it back into place.
>I start screaming. Then he goes to my left ankle, POP ! I'm screaming
>even louder. Then he takes my left arm , POP ! " Doctors finally
>administered morphine, and he slipped into a happy place.
>
>Kristi Udell arrived in the hospital emergency room just as her
>husband began wailing in anguish. The doctor explained to her what was
>happening. "When I saw him, he looked vaguely familiar," Kristi said,
>shuddering at the thought. "His face was puffed up to the size of a
>basketball, and he had a gash that went across his eye." "How do I
>look?" he asked. "Great," she lied. In addition to his mangled face
>and broken and dislocated limbs .. he had a gash across his chest ..
>broken rib ..the back of his right thigh also had been slashed open ..
>both arms were a grotesque black and blue .. and various other
>scrapes, cuts and bruises maligned his body.
>
>But he was alive.
>
>During his first few hours in the hospital, the Udells found out White
>hadn't been so lucky. The violent force of the ejection killed him
>instantly. Still choking up at the memory, Udell said,"That was a
>depressing time for me. I'd held up pretty good until then. But when I
>found out he was dead, I just lost it. Dennis had left a wife and two
>kids."
>
>Doctors gave Udell additional morphine to help him sleep.
>Unfortunately, the drug caused him to dream. " I dreamt someone jumped
>on my leg, and the thought made me jerk and I popped my left knee
>popped back out of its socket." Because his leg was already in a cast,
>it wasn't until three days later that doctors found the knee
>dislocated once again. " My kneecap was swollen to the size
>of a cantaloupe and laid over to the side kind of funny," Udell said.
>His tendons and ligaments had been torn apart, so nothing held his
>knee in place. It snapped out of joint three more times before they
>managed to cast it again. After the swelling went down, two titanium
>rods had to be temporarily inserted into the knee to help hold it in
>place and keep it immobilized.
>
>After four surgeries and with six stainless steel screws in each leg,
>Udell began intensive physical therapy and his trek to walk . . and
>maybe even fly again. Nearly two months after the accident, he took
>his first step.
>
>"I didn't want to just lie around," Udell said. " I'd get in my
>wheelchair and wheel myself down to physical therapy every morning and
>work out for about an hour. Then I'd do the same thing in the
>afternoon. By the time I wheeled myself back to my hospital room that
>evening, I was exhausted and would go right to sleep." For months,
>Udell increased his rehabilitation workouts until he was riding a
>bike, lifting weights, doing water exercises and other various
>muscle-building routines eight to ten hours each day. By the sixth
>month, he felt he was ready to fly again .. it was something nobody
>had thought possible.
>
>"Some people get depressed when going through the slow rehabilitation
>process," said Kriquette Alexander, senior program director where
>Udell performed much of his rehab. "But Brian was an inspiration to
>everyone. He pushed himself. And was very focused. He's a cool
>critter."
>
>Even after so much progress, a skeptical medical board still had to be
>convinced that he was ready to fly again. "They took me and a
>'healthy' guy out to an airplane to demonstrate an emergency ground
>egress out of the aircraft," Udell said smugly. "We had to pretend the
>aircraft was on fire .. unstrap .. jump overboard .. and run 50 yards
>away. They timed us both. I beat the other guy by 10 seconds."
>
>Ten months after the injury, after going through a battery of tests
>and getting waivers for the metal screws he'd carry for the rest of
>his life, Udell flew again. On his second flight, he soared back over
>the same area where he crashed. "I was just so excited to get back in
>the cockpit, I didn't have time to get scared," said Udell, whose
>father, retired Air Force Colonel Maurice Udell, taught him to fly
>when he was 9. "I just love to fly. It's all I ever wanted to do."
>
>Although Brian is back in the cockpit, he still has to go through
>stringent medical exams each year to stay on flying status. That's
>because the injuries to his limbs make him highly susceptible to
>degenerative arthritis. But for Udell, who had graduated at the top of
>his undergraduate pilot training class and had a strong resume package
>into the Thunderbirds before the crash, flying is no longer the number
>one priority in his life. He said, " When I clung onto that raft for
>dear life, I wasn't thinking about flying or drinking beer with my
>buddies. I prayed to God that he would let me see my wife again, and
>be there when my child was born."
>
>His first son was born while he labored through rehabilitation. In the
>hospital room during his first son's birth, the baby's head just made
>its way out into this world when he opened his eyes and looked up at
>his father. Brian's eyes welled up with tears . . it was God's answer
>to one of Udell's desperate prayers.
>
>[From the "FIGHTER PILOT" email list.]

[fudog50]

Third party, "I heard of" stories don't show a lot of conviction,
Tony, sorry. Please, if you have it, quotable text or links or even
the possibility that the SR-71 pilot wrote a paper on it? That would
be nice, maybe more convincing, thanks.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:35:42 -0600, "Tony" > wrote:

>"Bill McClain" > wrote in message
om...
>> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
>> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
>> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
>> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
>> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
>> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
>> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?
>
>I attended a talk by an SR-71 pilot a little while back and,
>according to him, people have safely ejected from an SR-71
>at speed and altitude.
>
>Tony
>

[Paul A. Suhler]

In article <rckSb.4580$EW.3195@okepread02>, Tony > wrote:
>"Bill McClain" > wrote in message
>> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
>> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
>> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
>> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
>> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
>> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
>> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?
>
>I attended a talk by an SR-71 pilot a little while back and,
>according to him, people have safely ejected from an SR-71
>at speed and altitude.

The odds aren't good, despite the lower dynamic pressure at
the Blackbird's cruising altitude.

The first fatal accident was the loss of the #3 SR, which involved
a pitch-up at speed. The forebody broke off and tumbled. Pilot
Bill Weaver stated that he lost consciousness immediately. I
didn't read the accident report in enough detail to know whether
his seat belt snapped or whether the skin blowing off the forebody
took the ground rescue handle, which anvils the seat belts.
Weaver told an interviewer years later that he thought that the
bruise across his waist was from hitting the edge of the windscreen
on his way out. He did not fire his seat.

The RSO, Jim Zwayer, died of a broken neck. The accident report
noted that if he had been in a head-down position pulling
positive g's when he fired the seat, then the combined acceleration
could have been 30 g's.


The other breakup at speed with a survivor was the mid-air of
MD-21 #135 and a D-21 drone it had just launched. Pilot Bill Park
reported that the forbody tumbled repeatedly and he pulled heavy
positive and negative g's, possible six each way. He ejected
when his seat belt loosened to the point where his helmet began
to hit the inside of the canopy on the negative g's. Getting
into his raft was much more difficult than he'd expected and
he barely made it on the third try.

Launch control officer Ray Torick also ejected, but was found
drowned, tethered to his life raft, but submerged. The air
connector was torn and his suit flooded. It's unknown whether
he was conscious when he hit the water. Park mentions the
possibility of a broken arm, but I haven't seen the accident
report, so I don't know.


An A-12 may have been lost at speed, but no trace was ever
found of the aircraft or the pilot, Jack Weeks. Low bandwidth
telemetry indicated a fuel flow problem and that the aircraft
had descended below 65,000', if I recall correctly.

[James Lane]

In article >, fudog50
> wrote:

> Third party, "I heard of" stories don't show a lot of conviction,
> Tony, sorry. Please, if you have it, quotable text or links or even
> the possibility that the SR-71 pilot wrote a paper on it? That would
> be nice, maybe more convincing, thanks.

You can find the story in Ben Rich's "Skunk Works". The accident
occured during tests designed to launch a drone from an A-12. I
don't have my copy handy, but I recall it happened at Mach3 and about
75,000 feet.

When released, the drone impacted the tail fin of the aircraft, causing
immediate loss of control. The crew punched out. Both of the crew
survived the ejection and descent, however one drowned due to a hole in
his pressure suit.

Kelly Johnson was devestated by the loss of life, and the A-12/drone
program was cancelled.

This accident, and other supersonic ejections from the Blackbird, are
documented here:

http://digilander.libero.it/maddog666/serie.htm

- James

[sid]

(Bill McClain) wrote in message >...
> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

Check out this site:
http://users.bestweb.net/~kcoyne/index.html

[mah]

Hi Bill & son

It can be done.

Aircraft such as the B-58 used a seat that had a clamshell capsule that
enclosed the occupant. The soviet (now Russian) K-36 seat uses booms in
front to make a calm area. Think of the wake on a boat. There is a
relatively calm area behind.

Having the occupant survive without injury is another story. Others
responders have already discussed this.

Shameless plug - visit my web site at
http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/eject.html

Great to see a young person asking quesitons.

MAH

[tscottme]

mah > wrote in message
...
<snip>
>
> Great to see a young person asking quesitons.
>
> MAH

It's also great the kid has a dad that doesn't make something up or take
him to see Iron Eagle part 24 for an answer.

--

Scott
--------
The French, God bless them, are finally joining the war against Islamic
extremism. Their targets, which will now confront the full force of
l'état, are schoolgirls who wear Muslim head scarves in French public
schools.
Wall Street Journal

[Bonehammer]

(Bill McClain) wrote in message >...
> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

Can't remember the details right now, but a particularly ill-fated
ejection on one of the Tu-22 "Blinder" prototypes or development a/cs
only left the rear gunner alive because his seat was facing aft and
protected him. The navigator, on the other side, was torn apart - and
the pilot never ejected, struggling to save the airframe. The whole
story is on the Gordon and Rigmant's Blinder & Backfire book.

HTH
Bonehammer

[Ken Duffey]

mah wrote:

> Hi Bill & son
>
> It can be done.
>
> Aircraft such as the B-58 used a seat that had a clamshell capsule that
> enclosed the occupant. The soviet (now Russian) K-36 seat uses booms in
> front to make a calm area.

The K-36 seat has telescoping booms that extend REARWARDS - to stabilise the
seat - in much the same way as the small drogue chute on western designs.

It has a projection that extends upwards between the pilots knees and a
device behind his knees that rises so that his legs are nearer his torso.

> Think of the wake on a boat. There is a
> relatively calm area behind.
>
> Having the occupant survive without injury is another story. Others
> responders have already discussed this.
>
> Shameless plug - visit my web site at
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/eject.html
>
> Great to see a young person asking quesitons.
>
> MAH




--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
Genuine E-mailers - Replace sukhoi with flanker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

[Darrell]

See how they got around mach 2 ejections on the B-58 Hustler. Check my home
page below and use the link to the "More Aircraft Pictures Annex" there or
use this link to go directly to the annex. You will see some data on the
individual capsules we used for ejection.
http://members.cox.net/dumwid/
--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Bill McClain" > wrote in message
om...
> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

[Krztalizer]

>
>It's also great the kid has a dad that doesn't make something up or take
>him to see Iron Eagle part 24 for an answer.

Its out in theaters??? ;)

[WaltBJ]

It's not the Mach number but the air blast, measured by indicated
airpeed in the cockpit, that hurts you. It's also known as 'Q' force,
or ram air pressure. FWIW the SR71 Q limit is low enough so serious
injury is unlikely. OTH that's also why a lot of fighter e-seats have
straps to restrain one's legs and prevent flailing. As far as I know
all seats will fire on command; the ejectee takes what conditions
exist when he wants out. FWIW I personally know a man who ejected from
an F104A (lost all hydraulics at 35000 and 1.5) going almost straight
down at 1.3 M at 25,000. The Lockheed C2 seat with its leg and arm
restraints prevented him from receiving serious injury! OTH a lot of
F4 and F105 pilots were seriously injured at high IAS (550+) ejections
prior to the seats being fitted with leg restraints. Now I guess it's
only the crews' arms that get flailed . .i.e. bent back beyond
physiological limits by the high-speed air blast.
Walt BJ

[Bill McClain]

<snippage>

Hi all,

My Joshua was saying, "See, I told you people can eject from
Blackbirds!" Hey, who knew?

Am I right about that Foxbat? It was going Mach 3+ because of runaway
engines? What happened to aircraft and pilot? I'd imagine the
engines would flame out and the pilot would punch out; I'd hate to
think that the Foxbat would just blow up or something.

Lowest and slowest ejections are kind of interesting, too. I bet the
Navy probably holds some interesting records there, mostly at sea.
:o)

[BUFDRVR]

>White, was killed during his ejection
>- or drowned after parachuting into a heavy sea at night.
>

Killed in the ejection.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[BUFDRVR]

>The K-36 seat has telescoping booms that extend REARWARDS - to stabilise the
>seat - in much the same way as the small drogue chute on western designs.

I though it also had a wind blast deflector the popped up *in front* of the
seat?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Tony]

"WaltBJ" > wrote in message
om...
> It's not the Mach number but the air blast, measured by indicated
> airpeed in the cockpit, that hurts you. It's also known as 'Q' force,
> or ram air pressure. FWIW the SR71 Q limit is low enough so serious
> injury is unlikely.

That's what the SR-71 pilot said. Because of the low pressure
at altitude, it is equivalent to approx. 246 knots at sea level.
So they eject without a capsule - but with a pressure suit
inflated to 4.5 psi. That is the same pressure as in the
cockpit, so it is limp until they eject.

He passed on another interesting tidbit. They warmed
their lunch by holding it against the windshield,
which was about 300 degrees F at speed.

[Steve R.]

I've been meaning to ask - what good books on the Blackbird would the group
recommend? I'm looking more for personal accounts than statistics.
Thanks,
Steve R.


"WaltBJ" > wrote in message
om...
> It's not the Mach number but the air blast, measured by indicated
> airpeed in the cockpit, that hurts you. It's also known as 'Q' force,
> or ram air pressure. FWIW the SR71 Q limit is low enough so serious
> injury is unlikely. OTH that's also why a lot of fighter e-seats have
> straps to restrain one's legs and prevent flailing. As far as I know
> all seats will fire on command; the ejectee takes what conditions
> exist when he wants out. FWIW I personally know a man who ejected from
> an F104A (lost all hydraulics at 35000 and 1.5) going almost straight
> down at 1.3 M at 25,000. The Lockheed C2 seat with its leg and arm
> restraints prevented him from receiving serious injury! OTH a lot of
> F4 and F105 pilots were seriously injured at high IAS (550+) ejections
> prior to the seats being fitted with leg restraints. Now I guess it's
> only the crews' arms that get flailed . .i.e. bent back beyond
> physiological limits by the high-speed air blast.
> Walt BJ

[Paul A. Suhler]

A good book on Blackbird flight test is "Blackbird Rising,"
by Donn Byrnes and the late Ken Hurley. Hurley was an AF
flight test engineer and the book relates his tale of being
in '952 (#3 SR) when an unstart caused a roll past 90 deg.
The pilot got it back down, but while he was doing that,
Hurley was madly writing notes so that there would be some
evidence of what happened in case they didn't survive.

It was a short time later that '952 came apart; there's
a chapter dedicated to it, "Number Three and Jim Zwayer
Died the Same Day."

Byrnes told me that in B-58 testing there were some high-Q
ejections in which crew members' brains were essentially
"homogenized" from the forces, despite the capsule.

[Ken Duffey]

BUFDRVR wrote:

> >The K-36 seat has telescoping booms that extend REARWARDS - to stabilise the
> >seat - in much the same way as the small drogue chute on western designs.
>
> I though it also had a wind blast deflector the popped up *in front* of the
> seat?
>
> BUFDRVR
>
> "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
> everyone on Bear Creek"

It does - a sort of telescoping arm between the pilots knees, with what looks like
a small mesh screen.

But looking at photos, it only seems to extend to groin/stomach height.

I'll see if I can find a photo.

I also read recently that the Martin-Baker seat on the Rafale had a device whereby
the pilot does not need to attach his ankles to the seat - it is all done
automatically.

This was supposed to be a wonder development - but the K-36 seat has had it for
years!

It has a webbing strap that goes from the outer side of the seat, next to the
right side of one ankle - then up and over the footwell and attaches to a pulley
on the seat on the left side of the ankle - same arrangement for the other ankle.

So the pilot sits down and puts his feet on the rudder pedals in the footwell - he
doesn't have to attach any ankle straps.

As soon as the seat fires, these webbing straps retract, pulling his ankles onto
the seat. There are also risers behind his knees to raise them towards his
stomach, the aforementioned windbreak, the stabilising arms etc.

All in all a very effective design - as demonstrated by the K-36 Ejection Seat
Display Teams at RAF Fairford (two) and Le Bourget (three)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

[Kulvinder Singh Matharu]

On 30 Jan 2004 23:31:29 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>The K-36 seat has telescoping booms that extend REARWARDS - to stabilise the
>>seat - in much the same way as the small drogue chute on western designs.
>
>I though it also had a wind blast deflector the popped up *in front* of the
>seat?

I'm sure you're right. I saw a "Discovery Wings" programme recently
that showed the mechanics of the Russian ejection system. Wind
deflector at front, and rear booms on seat for stabilisation. I'm not
sure how this compare with the latest Martin-Baker zero-zero seats.

--
Kulvinder Singh Matharu
Contact details : http://www.metalvortex.com/form/form.htm
Website : http://www.metalvortex.com/

"It ain't Coca Cola, it's rice" - The Clash

[Jukka O. Kauppinen]

> Shameless plug - visit my web site at
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/eject.html

Um?

http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/history.html

Um, this completely ignores the German development of ejection seats.
Germans had first successful ejection, first ejection seats in series
production aircraft and did some 60 successful ejections during the WW2.

jok

[Ed Rasimus]

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:10:31 GMT, "Steve R."
> wrote:

>I've been meaning to ask - what good books on the Blackbird would the group
>recommend? I'm looking more for personal accounts than statistics.
>Thanks,
>Steve R.

Probably the best personal account is Brian Shul's "Sled Driver".

Here's a link to Amazon, but the book is apparently out of print and
the one used copy available seems to be priced with either a typo or
bound in rare Corinthian leather.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0929823087/qid=1075567940/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-3382927-1689542?v=glance&s=books

Brian was with me at Holloman flying the AT-38. He's a dynamic and
courageous guy who was badly burned in SEA in a T-28 accident in Laos.
He's written several books and an Amazon inquiry on his name will turn
them up.

Check your library for Sled Driver and explore Inter-Library-Loan to
maybe find a copy.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[Tony]

"fudog50" > wrote in message
...
> Third party, "I heard of" stories don't show a lot of conviction,
> Tony, sorry. Please, if you have it, quotable text or links or even
> the possibility that the SR-71 pilot wrote a paper on it? That would
> be nice, maybe more convincing, thanks.
>
It was not "I heard of", It was "I heard from" - from 'Flaps' Flannigan
to be exact.
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:35:42 -0600, "Tony" > wrote:
>
> >"Bill McClain" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> >> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> >> possible to eject. I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> >> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> >> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> >> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> >> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?
> >
> >I attended a talk by an SR-71 pilot a little while back and,
> >according to him, people have safely ejected from an SR-71
> >at speed and altitude.
> >
> >Tony
> >
>

[Mark and Kim Smith]

Ed Rasimus wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:10:31 GMT, "Steve R."
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've been meaning to ask - what good books on the Blackbird would the group
>>recommend? I'm looking more for personal accounts than statistics.
>>Thanks,
>>Steve R.
>>
>>
>
>Probably the best personal account is Brian Shul's "Sled Driver".
>
>Here's a link to Amazon, but the book is apparently out of print and
>the one used copy available seems to be priced with either a typo or
>bound in rare Corinthian leather.
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0929823087/qid=1075567940/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-3382927-1689542?v=glance&s=books
>
>Brian was with me at Holloman flying the AT-38. He's a dynamic and
>courageous guy who was badly burned in SEA in a T-28 accident in Laos.
>He's written several books and an Amazon inquiry on his name will turn
>them up.
>
>Check your library for Sled Driver and explore Inter-Library-Loan to
>maybe find a copy.
>
>
>
>Ed Rasimus
>Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
>"When Thunder Rolled"
>Smithsonian Institution Press
>ISBN #1-58834-103-8
>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3583792370&category=1127

At the moment, one third of what Amazon wants.

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(Bill McClain) writes:
> <snippage>
>
> Hi all,
>
> My Joshua was saying, "See, I told you people can eject from
> Blackbirds!" Hey, who knew?
>
> Am I right about that Foxbat? It was going Mach 3+ because of runaway
> engines? What happened to aircraft and pilot? I'd imagine the
> engines would flame out and the pilot would punch out; I'd hate to
> think that the Foxbat would just blow up or something.

I wouldn't say that it was runaway engines, myself. Pretty much all
turbojet/turbofan engines are limited by the strength of teh materiels
of the rotating components (Compressors & Turbines). Remember that
these parts are highly loaded, and are spinning very fast, so there's
a lot of stress & strain on the blade roots and the disks that hold
the blades. The most common limit is the temperature of teh hot gas
entering the turbine section. That's pretty constant, though. 1500
Degrees K is 1500 Degress K no matter what altitude you're at, or how
fast you're going. The compreressor section, up front, is another
matter - As the engine's air is rammed into teh inlets and slowed
down, it's pressure and temperature increase. (This is, generally, a
good thing - the more air, at a higher pressure, the more thrust. As
teh air is compressed by each stage of the compressor, it heats up
more. At some point, it's possible to exceed teh tmperature limits of
the materiels in the compressor. Generally, the effects of an
overtemp in the compressor section aren't catastrophic, unless you're
above the limits for a long time. It will dramatically shorten the
useful life of those components, so an engine swap would be necessary
after landing to ensuer that the next flight's going to be safe.
It appears that that's what happened with the Foxbat over Egypt. The
pilot, for Tactical Reasons (Like getting his Recce Data back)
exceeded the placarded Mach 2.8 limit on the aircraft. He successfuly
landed the airplane in Egypt, and the engines got swapped.

>
> Lowest and slowest ejections are kind of interesting, too. I bet the
> Navy probably holds some interesting records there, mostly at sea.
>:o)

There have been some successful underwater ejections. Those are a lot
more dangerous than they may sound. Water's heavy, thick stuff.
--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Elmer]

Both Blackbird Rising, 1999, ISBN 0-9673327-0-2, 1999 and SR-71, "The Secre
Missions Exposed' 2000 (paperback), ISBN1-84176-098-6 are some pretty good
reading for what your looking for.
Toby
9th AMS EMR/ECM
Beale AFB/Kadena AB
1972-1975

"Steve R." > wrote in message
...
> I've been meaning to ask - what good books on the Blackbird would the
group
> recommend? I'm looking more for personal accounts than statistics.
> Thanks,
> Steve R.
>

[Steve R.]

Cool, thanks everybody. :o)
Steve R.


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 05:10:31 GMT, "Steve R."
> > wrote:
>
> >I've been meaning to ask - what good books on the Blackbird would the
group
> >recommend? I'm looking more for personal accounts than statistics.
> >Thanks,
> >Steve R.
>
> Probably the best personal account is Brian Shul's "Sled Driver".
>
> Here's a link to Amazon, but the book is apparently out of print and
> the one used copy available seems to be priced with either a typo or
> bound in rare Corinthian leather.
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0929823087/qid=1075567940/sr=1
-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-3382927-1689542?v=glance&s=books
>
> Brian was with me at Holloman flying the AT-38. He's a dynamic and
> courageous guy who was badly burned in SEA in a T-28 accident in Laos.
> He's written several books and an Amazon inquiry on his name will turn
> them up.
>
> Check your library for Sled Driver and explore Inter-Library-Loan to
> maybe find a copy.
>
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> Smithsonian Institution Press
> ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[The Enlightenment]

"Jukka O. Kauppinen" > wrote in message >...
> > Shameless plug - visit my web site at
> > http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/eject.html
>
> Um?
>
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/history.html
>
> Um, this completely ignores the German development of ejection seats.
> Germans had first successful ejection, first ejection seats in series
> production aircraft and did some 60 successful ejections during the WW2.
>
> jok

Ejection seats were standard for test aircraft but also many
production aircraft.

The development of these seats came out of a Luftwaffe study that
showed that over 50% of attempted parachute egresses from stricken
aircraft failed.

(Hitting a tail fin cost many an aviator his life)

Heinkel retained responsibility for all ejection seat developments.
As the company was in the east of Germany in an area that would of
come under Soviet controll and I think was annexed into Poland and I
expect some of the work was lost though post war the USAF's ejection
seats were styled after German ideas.

Aircraft that had compressed air ejection seats include:

Heinkel He 219 Uhu nightfighter. (The cabin was ahead of the props
and unless the engines were shut down and feathered the egressing crew
migh have been mangelled)

Dornier Do 335 Pfiel. (The aircraft had a pusher propellor).
Interestingly the ejection sequence involved seperation of the prop
blades and vertical fin by explosive bolts for extra safey in certain
situations.

I believe some crew members of the Heinkel He 177 Grief bomber also
had standard ejection seats.

These were all compressed air ejection seats. Compressed air must
have given smooth acceleration but the seats apparently weigh and
maintenance issues. (How much I don't know)

The Heinkel He 162 used pyrotechics. (The engine was mounted dorsalay
on the aircraft) and was much lighter. It probably used several
charges sequenced in time.


I've often thought that if a light weight ejection seat had of been
fitted to the German fighers eg Me 109G and FW190A onward some of the
Luftwaffes pilot shortage problems could have been solved.

[The Enlightenment]

Ken Duffey > wrote in message >...
> BUFDRVR wrote:
>
> > >The K-36 seat has telescoping booms that extend REARWARDS - to stabilise the
> > >seat - in much the same way as the small drogue chute on western designs.
> >
> > I though it also had a wind blast deflector the popped up *in front* of the
> > seat?
> >
> > BUFDRVR
> >
> > "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
> > everyone on Bear Creek"
>
> It does - a sort of telescoping arm between the pilots knees, with what looks like
> a small mesh screen.
>
> But looking at photos, it only seems to extend to groin/stomach height.
>
> I'll see if I can find a photo.
>
> I also read recently that the Martin-Baker seat on the Rafale had a device whereby
> the pilot does not need to attach his ankles to the seat - it is all done
> automatically.
>
> This was supposed to be a wonder development - but the K-36 seat has had it
> for years!

The version of the K36 was also to be found on the XB70 Valkurie. I
recall reading (in Wings i think) that the only survivor of a XB70
F104 mid air crash got his hand caught in the seats clamshells; when
he finally got his arm out and ejected the shell didn't close and he
recalls seeing the XB70 and F104 debris tumbling away from him through
the gap in the clamshells.

[The Enlightenment]

(Bill McClain) wrote in message >...
> My son was asking me about ejecting from jet aircraft. He's 8, and
> he's convinced that no matter how fast an airplane is going, it's
> possible to eject.

He's right. Technology has been developed for all speed ranges:
including ejection from the X15 at mach 6 and was in development from
Dyna Soar at Mach 25.

I think your child will enjoy these:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/moose.htm

http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/rescue.htm



I said I didn't think that the guy who was flying
> the MiG-25 at Mach 3+ was able to eject from his aircraft with the
> runaway engines (if that's what was happening), and that the SR-71
> isn't really something you can safely eject from at max speed and
> altitude. Any knowledgeable remarks I can pass along to him?

The SR71's ejection seats were based on the Gemini space capsule
ejection seats and handelled mach 3+. It was necessary to wear a
space suit.

masters of high speed ejections without space suits are the Russians
in the vorm of the Zevezada company. They had little details like a
blast defelctor that pops up.

Someone did mangage a supersonic ejection from a F15 in a vertical
dive. They survived with lacerations, bruisting and lost most of
their clothes. The USAF assumes it will only be shot down at low
level subsonic flight.

The story is to be found on "the ejection site"

[mah]

Jukka O. Kauppinen wrote:
>
> Um?
>
> http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/history.html
>
> Um, this completely ignores the German development of ejection seats.
> Germans had first successful ejection, first ejection seats in series
> production aircraft and did some 60 successful ejections during the WW2.
>
> jok

Message received and understood. Can you suggest some good references
to look at for athe synopsis page?

MAH

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Jukka O. Kauppinen
> writes
>> Shameless plug - visit my web site at
>> http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/eject.html
>
>Um?
>
>http://showcase.netins.net/web/herker/ejection/history.html
>
>Um, this completely ignores the German development of ejection seats.
>Germans had first successful ejection, first ejection seats in series
>production aircraft and did some 60 successful ejections during the WW2.
>
>jok
>
SAAB were also working on ejection seats for the J21.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Nele VII]

From "The truth about MiG-25"
Kryla Rodiny, 1990

<quote>
"There was one ocassion at Gorkii, when pilot had to eject at Mach 2.67. He
resumed flight status one year later. Earlier, one pilot sucessfully ejected
at a takeoff on the ground"
<end quote>

Be aware that MiG-25 measured airspeed of M 2.83/5.5g is at 11-12,000
metres, while SR-71 achieves the same speed at much higher altitude. Please
do the math what is the "ram-air" speed (around 550 KIAS).
Also, the ejection seat of the MiG-25 is KM1M, NOT K-36 (however, it got
installed in MiG-25PD series from 1978 onwards, but these case happened in
"P" model).


--

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA
Bill McClain wrote in message ...
><snippage>
>
>Hi all,
>
>My Joshua was saying, "See, I told you people can eject from
>Blackbirds!" Hey, who knew?
>
>Am I right about that Foxbat? It was going Mach 3+ because of runaway
>engines? What happened to aircraft and pilot? I'd imagine the
>engines would flame out and the pilot would punch out; I'd hate to
>think that the Foxbat would just blow up or something.
>
>Lowest and slowest ejections are kind of interesting, too. I bet the
>Navy probably holds some interesting records there, mostly at sea.
>:o)

[Nele VII]

A little bit of a pingpong...


Peter Stickney wrote in message ...
>In article >,
> (Bill McClain) writes:
>> <snippage>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My Joshua was saying, "See, I told you people can eject from
>> Blackbirds!" Hey, who knew?

Because its "ram-air" speed is quite low, around 350 KIAS due to the high
altitude & thin air. The major concern is oxygen supply-it is a looong way
down! The heat is irrelevant because the Blackbird heats due to
"heat-soaking".

>>
>> Am I right about that Foxbat? It was going Mach 3+ because of runaway
>> engines? What happened to aircraft and pilot? I'd imagine the
>> engines would flame out and the pilot would punch out; I'd hate to
>> think that the Foxbat would just blow up or something.

NO runaway engines. Foxbat is THE first airplane with FADEC control RRD-15B
designed by Chekunov OKB. It is the aerodynamic movemens that have to be
monitored. At placarded speed of M 2.83 and 5.5g sustained turn at 30 tonnes
weight (MiG-25PD-P has 5 g limit), wingtips fold upward for 70cm each (due
to heavy wings-it has reservoirs INSIDE the wings, not "integrals"), even
with differential stabilators rolls are "bending" the wings!

>
>I wouldn't say that it was runaway engines, myself. Pretty much all
>turbojet/turbofan engines are limited by the strength of teh materiels
>of the rotating components (Compressors & Turbines).

Correct. That's why Foxbat A engine turbines are covered with 30 micron
silver (0,03-0,05mm smoothnes) by electrolysis-5 kg per engine! Foxbat E
(MiG-25PD) uses silver/radium that gives 0,01 smoothnes on ?-15BD-300.

>Remember that
>these parts are highly loaded, and are spinning very fast, so there's
>a lot of stress & strain on the blade roots and the disks that hold
>the blades. The most common limit is the temperature of teh hot gas
>entering the turbine section.

Correct for turbofans, wrong for the MiG low-pressure turbojets. The limit
for them is RAM-air pressure (i.e. compressor fans). Let me give You the
temperatures at max dynamic thrust; Engine inlet temperature 320C;
compressor max temp-700 Centigrade. Fuel-adding section temperature-300C
(fuel cooling!); Air-evaporation section with alcohol-87C. So, turbine gets
rather cool air/fuel/alcohol mixture. TET-1,000C. All at M2,8 at 11,000
meters (or 13,000 meters at Middle east). Estimated max speed flight time-40
minutes (it was only 8 minutes on first machines!)

Oh, heat soaking. Having built-in reservoirs rather than integrals like
SR-71 (that leak when airplane is "cold"!), evaporated air is bled from
AE-section at -20C to wings and fuselage compartments. For example, the
mighty 600-KW "Smerch" radar working temperature is 50-60C due to good
cooling, so there is no need for nitrogen-cooling. Same goes for wings and
fuselage, they are "air-blown".

That's pretty constant, though. 1500
>Degrees K is 1500 Degress K no matter what altitude you're at, or how
>fast you're going. The compreressor section, up front, is another
>matter - As the engine's air is rammed into teh inlets and slowed
>down, it's pressure and temperature increase. (This is, generally, a
>good thing - the more air, at a higher pressure, the more thrust. As
>teh air is compressed by each stage of the compressor, it heats up
>more. At some point, it's possible to exceed teh tmperature limits of
>the materiels in the compressor. Generally, the effects of an
>overtemp in the compressor section aren't catastrophic, unless you're
>above the limits for a long time. It will dramatically shorten the
>useful life of those components, so an engine swap would be necessary
>after landing to ensuer that the next flight's going to be safe.
>It appears that that's what happened with the Foxbat over Egypt. The
>pilot, for Tactical Reasons (Like getting his Recce Data back)
>exceeded the placarded Mach 2.8 limit on the aircraft. He successfuly
>landed the airplane in Egypt, and the engines got swapped.
>

Wrongo about Egypt. Pilot Bezevec (that's his name) went (dashed) to M3.2
due to Hawk SAM launch detection via RWR. No damage to the aircraft or
engines. The R-15B-300 engines on Bezevec's aircraft were installed after
General Kadomcev got killed in engine bay fire in April 1969 when engines
got placarded at lower temps. He was a test pilot and simple firewalled the
engines. Let me remind You that slightly-modified (I mean re-engined E-155)
MiG-25M can go M3.2 until it runs out of fuel.

However, the rest is fine. CIT and TIT limits MiG-25 to go over 1,200 Kmph
indicated airspeed at ANY altitude. That's why MiG-25 cannot break sound
barrier (without bpilot being reprimanded! 8-) at the sea level-compressor
becomes "overcompressed" at that level at 1,200 IAS/TAS and there is simply
too little air for afterburner to go over stage 1 safely without making
engine turbine running hot (afterburner has 3 stages/levels).

However, it has automatic stabilator-adjustment when firing R-40s to avoid
roll/yaw/pitch change (another first on the fighter). Stabilators are cut
like wings and stabilators on F-15 as a good anti-flutter measure (F-15
"stole" this feature from MiG-25, F-15 prototype had anti-flutter weights!),
efficient airbrake (also coupled with stabilator to avoid pitch change). A
low-level flying prototype of MiG-25P made a snap-up attack ripple-fire with
all four R-40(Radar and IR) and evaporated MiG-15 drone.


>>
>> Lowest and slowest ejections are kind of interesting, too. I bet the
>> Navy probably holds some interesting records there, mostly at sea.
>>:o)

Not uncommon. Kadomcev killed himself since the darn aircraft continued to
fly. It was an outboard engine-bay fire so the plane probably just
disintegrated when exploded. When the darn thing, being that MiG-25, SR-71,
XB-70 or whatever starts to move, even clipped wings/stabilizers/engines
cannot make it stop to fly straight&level... the early (pre-production)
MiG-25s had smaller on early machines, and produced same interference like
on F-14 (hence the bigger "fishtails" on early 25-s) and even wigtips that
were good only for straight and level flight.
>
>There have been some successful underwater ejections. Those are a lot
>more dangerous than they may sound. Water's heavy, thick stuff.

Depending of the height, it is all the same if one drops at sea, lake or
concrete.

>--
>Pete Stickney
> A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
> bad measures. -- Daniel Webster-

Quite.

--

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA