Corn ethanol days are numbered

[M[_1_]]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article
>,
M > wrote:

> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
>
> To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.

Ehhanol os a corny solution to the fuel supply.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 3, 12:58*pm, M > wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
>
> To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.

Its been great business for small engine shops. They can't keep up
with all the gooped up carbs from yard equipment that had this stuff
run through it. Never leave fuel with ethanol in an engine overnight,
always drain the fuel and run it until the carb is clear of fuel.

-Robert

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> On May 3, 12:58*pm, M > wrote:
> > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
> >
> > To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.
>
> Its been great business for small engine shops. They can't keep up
> with all the gooped up carbs from yard equipment that had this stuff
> run through it. Never leave fuel with ethanol in an engine overnight,
> always drain the fuel and run it until the carb is clear of fuel.
>
> -Robert

Dumb question: Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
engines? It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
tug (aviation content)? Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[B A R R Y]

On Sun, 04 May 2008 07:43:46 -0400, Bob Noel
> wrote:
>
> It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
>tug (aviation content)?

Same here. We've had 10% for years, as an MTBE replacement.

> Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
>ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?

You probably have it, as CT and NY have at least 10% ethanol.

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
Bob Noel > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
> > On May 3, 12:58*pm, M > wrote:
> > > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
> > >
> > > To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.
> >
> > Its been great business for small engine shops. They can't keep up
> > with all the gooped up carbs from yard equipment that had this stuff
> > run through it. Never leave fuel with ethanol in an engine overnight,
> > always drain the fuel and run it until the carb is clear of fuel.
> >
> > -Robert
>
> Dumb question: Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
> engines? It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
> tug (aviation content)? Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
> ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?

It isn't so much the carburetors as the materials in the fuel tanks,
although the alcohol can attract water, which will corrode things.

It is the solvent effect of the alcohol on plastics and resins used in
fuel tanks, for instance. Boaters who have fiberglass fuel tanks are
seeing a lot of problems because the alcohol attacks the (usually
polyester) resins used to bond and seal the tanks. It produces a goo,
which invades and clogs things like filters and carburetor jets.

Thank you, environmentalists and Archer-Daniels Midland!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
> Bob Noel > wrote:
>
>> In article
>> >,
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>>
>>> On May 3, 12:58 pm, M > wrote:
>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
>>>>
>>>> To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.
>>> Its been great business for small engine shops. They can't keep up
>>> with all the gooped up carbs from yard equipment that had this stuff
>>> run through it. Never leave fuel with ethanol in an engine overnight,
>>> always drain the fuel and run it until the carb is clear of fuel.
>>>
>>> -Robert
>> Dumb question: Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
>> engines? It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
>> tug (aviation content)? Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
>> ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?
>
> It isn't so much the carburetors as the materials in the fuel tanks,
> although the alcohol can attract water, which will corrode things.
>
> It is the solvent effect of the alcohol on plastics and resins used in
> fuel tanks, for instance. Boaters who have fiberglass fuel tanks are
> seeing a lot of problems because the alcohol attacks the (usually
> polyester) resins used to bond and seal the tanks. It produces a goo,
> which invades and clogs things like filters and carburetor jets.
>
> Thank you, environmentalists and Archer-Daniels Midland!
>

The REAL problem is that we haven't even begun to see the result of the
unbelievable incompetence, corruption, and utter stupidity that has been
the result of the actions of the people we have elected to office in the
United States.
There will be a WHOLE LOT of suffering before things get better, and at
this point in time, a fairly viable argument can be made that things
indeed, might never be reversed.


--
Dudley Henriques

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-04, Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> Its been great business for small engine shops. They can't keep up
> with all the gooped up carbs from yard equipment that had this stuff
> run through it. Never leave fuel with ethanol in an engine overnight,
> always drain the fuel and run it until the carb is clear of fuel.

Hm. Our snowblower doesn't ahve this problem, but then it's only a few years
old, and it gets fuel stabilizer added when we think it's not going to be
run for a while.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Private]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...

>
> The REAL problem is that we haven't even begun to see the result of the
> unbelievable incompetence, corruption, and utter stupidity that has been
> the result of the actions of the people we have elected to office in the
> United States.
> There will be a WHOLE LOT of suffering before things get better, and at
> this point in time, a fairly viable argument can be made that things
> indeed, might never be reversed.
>
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques


George Bernard Shaw said it best,
"Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we
deserve."

and similarly
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Walt Kelly in Pogo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_(comics)

As pilots we are trained to accept responsibility for our actions as PIC,
but sadly we do not receive similar quality training as voters or citizens.
We tolerate a corrupted and fraudulent democracy and government, and allow
ourselves to be distracted by unimportant irrelevancies. It is often said
that addicts cannot begin their recovery until they admit that they have hit
bottom and this seems to also be the case for citizens who do nothing until
they find themselves shouting out the window that "I'm mad as hell and I'm
not going to take it anymore." (Howard Beale from the movie Network).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_%28film%29

We say we value freedom above all else, and imagine ourselves as free, but
our freedom is limited and totally controlled by authoritarian governments
that despite their claimed intentions, are best described as criminal
enterprises. IMHO the greatest line in Rock&Roll is Kris Kristofferson's,
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kristofferson
(interestingly, also an Army helicopter pilot, West Point professor, and son
of a USAF Major General)

Happy landings,

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 4, 4:43*am, Bob Noel >
wrote:
> In article >,
> *"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Dumb question: *Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
> engines? *It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
> tug (aviation content)? *Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
> ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?

I'm not sure if your gas in Boston has ethanol or not. In California
we are either 10% or 15% ethanol as I recall. Most new mowers in
California come with a fuel shutoff valve. The shutdown procedure is
to turn off the fuel valve and run the appliance until its out of gas.
That ensures that the carb is clear of fuel. In addition, we use
stablizers out here. It appears especially important for 2 stroke gas.
I use Stabil myself. I also put it in my boat and any car that doesn't
use its entire tank in 30 days.

-Robet

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
On May 4, 4:43 am, Bob Noel >
wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> Dumb question: Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
> engines? It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
> tug (aviation content)? Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
> ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?

I'm not sure if your gas in Boston has ethanol or not. In California
we are either 10% or 15% ethanol as I recall. Most new mowers in
California come with a fuel shutoff valve. The shutdown procedure is
to turn off the fuel valve and run the appliance until its out of gas.
That ensures that the carb is clear of fuel. In addition, we use
stablizers out here. It appears especially important for 2 stroke gas.
I use Stabil myself. I also put it in my boat and any car that doesn't
use its entire tank in 30 days.

-Robet

I'm beginning to wonder if the problem isn't more specific to brands or
types. I have asked a number of people about it, and get hot and cold
responses. Some say it's a serious problem, while many others say they
haven't even heard of it. My experience has even been mixed. I have had
problems with weed eaters, push mowers and a power washer but little else.
But I have a 14hp Kohler in use almost daily with no problems.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2008-05-04 07:04:48 -0700, Dudley Henriques > said:

>
> The REAL problem is that we haven't even begun to see the result of the
> unbelievable incompetence, corruption, and utter stupidity that has
> been the result of the actions of the people we have elected to office
> in the United States.
> There will be a WHOLE LOT of suffering before things get better, and at
> this point in time, a fairly viable argument can be made that things
> indeed, might never be reversed.

Well, sometimes they do wake up and see their own insanity. The double
nickel speed limit was finally repealed, though not without a great
deal of chest beating. The front seat belt ignition interlock was
finally thrown out, too.

I do not see a coherent energy policy developing. Politicians say they
want us to be less dependent on foreign oil, but they won't let us
drill for oil in the US and they tax domestic production higher than
imported oil. Politicians say they want us to use less oil, but then
throw tantrums when the price of oil goes up. They say they will do
something substantive, then toss out gems like the gas tax holiday as
if they would have some sort of positive effect. These are the people
who want to be President. Scary.

You have people who criticize the war in Iraq threatening to use
nuclear weapons on Iran. You have Presidential candidates who think
that Israel should no longer be protected by our nuclear umbrella, but
they are against nuclear proliferation (just what do they think that
Israel would do if we were not protecting them?).

You have a guy who claims that he did not know what his pastor believed
and spoke about despite attending his sermons for more than 20 years
and considered him close enough to be a member of the family? Do we
really want such a naif negotiating peace treaties with Hamas or
nuclear agreements with North Korea?

Well, we survived Jimmy Carter (barely). I am not sure we can survive
the next idiot.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 4, 5:37*pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ...

> I'm beginning to wonder if the problem isn't more specific to brands or
> types. I have asked a number of people about it, and get hot and cold
> responses. Some say it's a serious problem, while many others say they
> haven't even heard of it. My experience has even been mixed. I have had
> problems with weed eaters, push mowers and a power washer *but little else.
> But I have a 14hp Kohler in use almost daily with no problems.

The daily use is probably preventing problems. It sounds like the
problem is that the ethanol fuel attracks water as it sits and that
make it break down.

-robert

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On May 4, 5:37?pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ...

> > I'm beginning to wonder if the problem isn't more specific to brands or
> > types. I have asked a number of people about it, and get hot and cold
> > responses. Some say it's a serious problem, while many others say they
> > haven't even heard of it. My experience has even been mixed. I have had
> > problems with weed eaters, push mowers and a power washer ?but little else.
> > But I have a 14hp Kohler in use almost daily with no problems.

> The daily use is probably preventing problems. It sounds like the
> problem is that the ethanol fuel attracks water as it sits and that
> make it break down.

Umm, no.

The fuel systems of things manufactured more than a few years ago
often contain materials that are degraded, attacked, or flat out
disolved by ethanol.

Why?

Because up until recently no one ever envisioned that gasoline would
contain a significant amount of ethenol.

For older stuff it is a crap shoot; if you're lucky the materials are
resistant, otherwise you're screwed.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Robert M. Gary]

On May 4, 10:25*pm, wrote:
> The fuel systems of things manufactured more than a few years ago
> often contain materials that are degraded, attacked, or flat out
> disolved by ethanol.

So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
are just going to let the mogas STC die.

-Robert

[[email protected]]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On May 4, 10:25?pm, wrote:
> > The fuel systems of things manufactured more than a few years ago
> > often contain materials that are degraded, attacked, or flat out
> > disolved by ethanol.

> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
> are just going to let the mogas STC die.

Most likely because going through the entire fuel system of an airplane
to ensure everything in there is unaffected by ethenol and proving
it to the satisfaction of the FAA is a huge undertaking for one airplane
let alone the more common models of the GA fleet.

Add that on top of ensuring the engine itself runs properly on fuel
with ethenol to the satisfaction of the FAA.

Or in other words, money.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On May 4, 10:25 pm, wrote:
>> The fuel systems of things manufactured more than a few years ago
>> often contain materials that are degraded, attacked, or flat out
>> disolved by ethanol.
>
> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
> are just going to let the mogas STC die.
>
> -Robert


Do you have such a list?

[M[_1_]]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gKwNfClK2RU_LVUDl8BxgFXtj_AgD90EUHIO0


On May 3, 12:58 pm, M > wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
>
> To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.

[M[_1_]]

On May 3, 12:58 pm, M > wrote:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120977546363664225.html?mod=googlenew...
>
> To stop the insanity, there's nothing better than the hard reality.


http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDUwMjNiZGFiMzViZmFkMGFkNzRhY2Y0Nzc5ZDRlNjE=

Corn ethanol not only is bad for our airplanes, is really nothing
short of a homicidal binge of insanity.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

>> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
>> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
>> are just going to let the mogas STC die.
>
> Most likely because going through the entire fuel system of an airplane
> to ensure everything in there is unaffected by ethenol and proving
> it to the satisfaction of the FAA is a huge undertaking for one airplane
> let alone the more common models of the GA fleet.

Another example of regulatory insanity. My A&P could make my aircraft
ethanol-compliant in less than a day by changing out a few parts -- but THAT
isn't good enough for the FAA.

Why, if an A&P is willing to sign it off, is *that* not sufficient?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Maynard]

On 2008-05-06, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> Another example of regulatory insanity. My A&P could make my aircraft
> ethanol-compliant in less than a day by changing out a few parts -- but THAT
> isn't good enough for the FAA.
>
> Why, if an A&P is willing to sign it off, is *that* not sufficient?

Sounds like some enterprising shop could get in on a good thing by getting
STCs for this kind of work...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
>>> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
>>> are just going to let the mogas STC die.
>>
>> Most likely because going through the entire fuel system of an airplane
>> to ensure everything in there is unaffected by ethenol and proving
>> it to the satisfaction of the FAA is a huge undertaking for one airplane
>> let alone the more common models of the GA fleet.
>
> Another example of regulatory insanity. My A&P could make my aircraft
> ethanol-compliant in less than a day by changing out a few parts -- but
> THAT isn't good enough for the FAA.
>
> Why, if an A&P is willing to sign it off, is *that* not sufficient?

Is your local A&P going to pull every single part that comes in contact
with the fuel and make sure that it isn't negatively effected by the
ethanol?


If it is as easy as you think why don't you develop the STC with your
A&P and make some money off it?

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2008-05-06 06:32:26 -0700, "Jay Honeck" > said:

>>> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
>>> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
>>> are just going to let the mogas STC die.
>>
>> Most likely because going through the entire fuel system of an airplane
>> to ensure everything in there is unaffected by ethenol and proving
>> it to the satisfaction of the FAA is a huge undertaking for one airplane
>> let alone the more common models of the GA fleet.
>
> Another example of regulatory insanity. My A&P could make my aircraft
> ethanol-compliant in less than a day by changing out a few parts -- but
> THAT isn't good enough for the FAA.
>
> Why, if an A&P is willing to sign it off, is *that* not sufficient?

The market will always be a far better regulator than the ukases of
government bureaucrats.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> >> So why can't the EAA offer an STC that calls for the replacement of
> >> parts that are attacked by ethanol? From my talks with the EAA they
> >> are just going to let the mogas STC die.
> >
> > Most likely because going through the entire fuel system of an airplane
> > to ensure everything in there is unaffected by ethenol and proving
> > it to the satisfaction of the FAA is a huge undertaking for one airplane
> > let alone the more common models of the GA fleet.

> Another example of regulatory insanity. My A&P could make my aircraft
> ethanol-compliant in less than a day by changing out a few parts -- but THAT
> isn't good enough for the FAA.

Unless you have a really simple airplane, I think you are grossly
underestimating the task.

You start at the filler cap and go through every material, every
seal, every valve and fitting until you get to the cylinders.

Then you have to show the engine actually runs at all the temperature,
altitude, and power setting combinations with ethenol in the fuel.

> Why, if an A&P is willing to sign it off, is *that* not sufficient?

Assuming the A&P did all the above and submitted all the data, it
probably would be.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> If it is as easy as you think why don't you develop the STC with your A&P
> and make some money off it?

Because it's *not* easy, thanks to the FAA.

Swapping the rubber and fiberglass parts for ethanol-safe parts is simple.
Proving compliance with the FAA is what's not.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> Then you have to show the engine actually runs at all the temperature,
> altitude, and power setting combinations with ethenol in the fuel.

How do you actually *do* that, to the satisfaction of the FAA? Take one of
'em with you on test flights? Produce video tapes? How do they actually
know if you actually tested the plane at all power
combinations/temperatures/altitudes?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > Then you have to show the engine actually runs at all the temperature,
> > altitude, and power setting combinations with ethenol in the fuel.

> How do you actually *do* that, to the satisfaction of the FAA? Take one of
> 'em with you on test flights? Produce video tapes? How do they actually
> know if you actually tested the plane at all power
> combinations/temperatures/altitudes?

The way anything get approved; engineering data.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Jay Honeck[_2_]]

> The way anything get approved; engineering data.

Right. What does that consist of? Graphs that show airspeed at a given
throttle/prop/mixture? Or do they require ground/static engine runs?

I presume the FAA has made this so difficult that even the EAA feels they
don't have the resources to complete this data acquisition?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > The way anything get approved; engineering data.

> Right. What does that consist of? Graphs that show airspeed at a given
> throttle/prop/mixture? Or do they require ground/static engine runs?

> I presume the FAA has made this so difficult that even the EAA feels they
> don't have the resources to complete this data acquisition?

I would imagine that for a certified aircraft you want to keep certified,
you would need to do something close to what the original manufacture
of the part had to do and you would find the details in CFAR 21 and 33.

The way around all this is called a homebuilt.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> news:6ae5f923-ca71-4b60-92af-ba0f68dd0d29
@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com.
> .. On May 4, 4:43 am, Bob Noel >
> wrote:
>> In article
>> >,
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
>> Dumb question: Is this ethanol-laced gas a problem for newer small
>> engines? It doesn't seem to bother my motorcycle, lawnmower or
>> tug (aviation content)? Or have I just been lucky and don't have this
>> ethanol-laced junk around here in the Boston area?
>
> I'm not sure if your gas in Boston has ethanol or not. In California
> we are either 10% or 15% ethanol as I recall. Most new mowers in
> California come with a fuel shutoff valve. The shutdown procedure is
> to turn off the fuel valve and run the appliance until its out of gas.
> That ensures that the carb is clear of fuel. In addition, we use
> stablizers out here. It appears especially important for 2 stroke gas.
> I use Stabil myself. I also put it in my boat and any car that doesn't
> use its entire tank in 30 days.
>
> -Robet
>
> I'm beginning to wonder if the problem isn't more specific to brands
> or types. I have asked a number of people about it, and get hot and
> cold responses. Some say it's a serious problem, while many others say
> they haven't even heard of it. My experience has even been mixed. I
> have had problems with weed eaters, push mowers and a power washer
> but little else. But I have a 14hp Kohler in use almost daily with no
> problems.


It's because you're an okie fjukktard who doesn't know one end of an
engine from another.


Bertie
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:efaUj.98989$TT4.66292@attbi_s22:

>> The way anything get approved; engineering data.
>
> Right. What does that consist of? Graphs that show airspeed at a
> given throttle/prop/mixture? Or do they require ground/static engine
> runs?
>
> I presume the FAA has made this so difficult that even the EAA feels
> they don't have the resources to complete this data acquisition?

Jesus wept.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in
news:Pz9Uj.98942$TT4.30424@attbi_s22:

>> If it is as easy as you think why don't you develop the STC with your
>> A&P and make some money off it?
>
> Because it's *not* easy, thanks to the FAA.
>
> Swapping the rubber and fiberglass parts for ethanol-safe parts is
> simple. Proving compliance with the FAA is what's not.

You're a ****ing moron.



Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>
> You're a ****ing moron.
>
>
>
> Bertie
>

The only think you know about corn ethanol, is the cobs leave your ass raw.

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Jesus wept.
>
>
> Bertie

You're pathetic. Some many people have killfiled your ignorant ass, you're
practically talking to yourself.

[RST Engineering]

No, it is because at one point in time, the EAA had on staff one hell of a
good systems engineer whose name escapes me right now. He convinced Pope
Paul that it was in aviation's best interests to switch the low-compression
fleet to mogas and to fund three years of full-time flight testing in the
EAA's C-150 to prove the point. The rest of the STCs that the EAA holds are
on the basis of the full-bore testing in the 150 and then limited "it should
be the same" testing in each of the other type certificates for which there
is an STC.

That brilliant engineer retired just about the same time as the current EAA
regime came to power and I guess they don't feel the same need to support
general aviation. After all, the STC only costs a couple of hundred dollars
for a nickel's worth of paper and they can make that much with just two or
three more people through the gates at Oshkosh every year.

I'm racking my brain right now to think of anyone on EAA staff right now
with the engineering skills to pull off a project like this and I can't
think of a single person or group with the right toolbox. Lots of good
folks on staff, but the EAA has transmogrified itself from a technically
competent organization to a politically and economically competent
organization within the last twenty years. I'm not sure that is a move in
the right direction, but then again I'm not in a position to change that
direction.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:efaUj.98989$TT4.66292@attbi_s22...
>> The way anything get approved; engineering data.
>
> Right. What does that consist of? Graphs that show airspeed at a given
> throttle/prop/mixture? Or do they require ground/static engine runs?
>
> I presume the FAA has made this so difficult that even the EAA feels they
> don't have the resources to complete this data acquisition?
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>
>> Jesus wept.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> You're pathetic. Some many people have killfiled your ignorant ass,
> you're practically talking to yourself.
>
>
>

Talking to you, obviously.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> You're a ****ing moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> The only think you know about corn ethanol, is the cobs leave your
> ass raw.
>
>
>
>
>

Aww. more gay lames! How ....predictable.


Bertie

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>
>> The only think you know about corn ethanol, is the cobs leave your
>> ass raw.
>>
>>
>
> Aww. more gay lames! How ....predictable.
>
>
> Bertie

That's not a gay lame dumb ass. You really are stupid aren't you?

Oh, ok, maybe just a one track mind.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]]

"Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote in news:3QOUj.115427$Ft5.105531
@newsfe15.lga:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> The only think you know about corn ethanol, is the cobs leave your
>>> ass raw.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Aww. more gay lames! How ....predictable.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> That's not a gay lame dumb ass. You really are stupid aren't you?

Ah, sorry, That's what pases for sex in Okieland. Beg pardon.
>
> Oh, ok, maybe just a one track mind.
>

Eight track, thank you.


Bertie
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 4 May 2008 21:48:25 -0700 (PDT), "Robert M. Gary"
> wrote:

>On May 4, 5:37*pm, "Maxwell" <luv2^fly99@cox.^net> wrote:
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ...
>
>> I'm beginning to wonder if the problem isn't more specific to brands or
>> types. I have asked a number of people about it, and get hot and cold
>> responses. Some say it's a serious problem, while many others say they
>> haven't even heard of it. My experience has even been mixed. I have had
>> problems with weed eaters, push mowers and a power washer *but little else.
>> But I have a 14hp Kohler in use almost daily with no problems.
>
>The daily use is probably preventing problems. It sounds like the
>problem is that the ethanol fuel attracks water as it sits and that
>make it break down.
>
Michigan has had 10% pretty much since some time in the 80's. I've
only had one lawn mower that didn't start (fouled plug) in spring in
all those years. I never drain the tanks and there are no shutoffs
except on the big generator (I always run that one dry), but tractors
and even riding lawn mowers sit all winter with the same gas in the
tanks and the snow blowers sit all spring, summer, and fall.
The grass trimmer and chain saw both use the same fuel but with about
a 50:1 oil mix. They may sit for 6 months with fuel in them. So far
they still start fairly easy the first time. The chain saw is one my
dad had and he's been gone 20 years.

OTOH using good 100 Low Lead I had the insides come loose in a
flexible fuel line and migrate to the injector throttle body.
Admittedly that line was *old*

I'm not saying I'm doing it right, I just don't have the ambition to
bother and it's never given me a problem.

>-robert
Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Angelo Campanella]

M wrote:
> Corn ethanol not only is bad for our airplanes, is really nothing
> short of a homicidal binge of insanity.

As a society, we thought we had grown out of superstition and the Salem
witch trials , but that bug has re-emerged as a hydra (several heads):
Environmentalism, Political Correctness, The race isssues, Global
Warming and now Climate Change.

Henny Penny; "The SKY is falling!"

Angelo Campanella

[Angelo Campanella]

wrote:
> Michigan has had 10% pretty much since some time in the 80's. I've
> only had one lawn mower that didn't start (fouled plug) in spring in
> all those years.
snip

A few percent of ethnol can be a good thing. That's what "DryGas" and
associated winter treatment for auto gas has been for generations. It
combines with traces of water in gasolline harmlessly fgo into miscible
solution with gasoline. It all passes nicely ithrough combustion,
essentially unnoticed.

The "10% limit is the smart way to go and leave it at that.

Angelo Campanella