Nav Light Graphic

[RST Engineering]

OK, I've been googling, wikiing, and reading FAR gobbledygook all morning
and I still don't have a clear picture of what the nav light requirements
(in both azimuth and elevation) are as regards brightness.

If anybody has a point to a clear post of the brightness requirements, I'd
sure be interested in seeing it. Sarangen's article on wingtip lights is
about the best I can find, but he duplicates the alpha graph and says
nothing about the theta graph.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
m...
> OK, I've been googling, wikiing, and reading FAR gobbledygook all morning
> and I still don't have a clear picture of what the nav light requirements
> (in both azimuth and elevation) are as regards brightness.
>
> If anybody has a point to a clear post of the brightness requirements, I'd
> sure be interested in seeing it. Sarangen's article on wingtip lights is
> about the best I can find, but he duplicates the alpha graph and says
> nothing about the theta graph.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
>
Jim: I found the following to have quite a bit of information regarding nav
lite intensities. FAR Part 25 sub part F and Sec. 25.1391 and beyond.


I hope this is of some use


--
Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 technical cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
www.vksupportservice.com

[RST Engineering]

A couple of things, Stu. One, Part 25 has to do with transport category
aircraft. Two, the corresponding sections in Part 23 (light aircraft) are
what I was referring to when I mentioned "gobbledygook" in my original post.
My hit is that they gave this section to a newly graduated engineer with a
specialty in optics and (s)he wanted to show the boss how much a good
engineer can obfuscate matters.

A simple set of graphs would make things SO much easier to interpret.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford



"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
> Jim: I found the following to have quite a bit of information regarding
> nav lite intensities. FAR Part 25 sub part F and Sec. 25.1391 and beyond.
>
>
> I hope this is of some use
>
>
> --
> Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
> Experimental Helo magazine
> P. O. Box 1585
> Inyokern, CA 93527
> (760) 377-4478 ph
> (760) 408-9747 publication cell
> (760) 608-1299 technical cell
> www.experimentalhelo.com
> www.vksupportservice.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On May 6, 3:09*pm, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> A couple of things, Stu. *One, Part 25 has to do with transport category
> aircraft. *Two, the corresponding sections in Part 23 (light aircraft) are
> what I was referring to when I mentioned "gobbledygook" in my original post.

[RESO / Claude GUTH[_2_]]

Have a look at

http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/europa/wing/Wing-tip-Lights.pdf


"RST Engineering" > a écrit dans le message de
m...
> OK, I've been googling, wikiing, and reading FAR gobbledygook all morning
> and I still don't have a clear picture of what the nav light requirements
> (in both azimuth and elevation) are as regards brightness.
>
> If anybody has a point to a clear post of the brightness requirements, I'd
> sure be interested in seeing it. Sarangen's article on wingtip lights is
> about the best I can find, but he duplicates the alpha graph and says
> nothing about the theta graph.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
>

[RST Engineering]

Have a look at what I wrote.

Jim

--

"RESO / Claude GUTH" > wrote in message
...
> Have a look at
>
> http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/europa/wing/Wing-tip-Lights.pdf
>


>>
>> "RST Engineering" > a écrit dans le message de
>> m...

>> Sarangen's article on wingtip lights is about the best I can find, but he
>> duplicates the alpha graph and says nothing about the theta graph.
>>
>> Jim

[RST Engineering]

Because IDK WTF or WTF the SAE is or WTF the AS docs are.

Why do you persist in using contractions that are not commonly understood?

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

> wrote in message
...



Why don't you just buy the AS documents from the SAE. They state the
requirements pretty clearly...

[[email protected]]

On May 7, 9:44*am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> Because IDK WTF or WTF the SAE is or WTF the AS docs are.
>
> Why do you persist in using contractions that are not commonly understood?
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> * * * * --Henry Ford
>
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> Why don't you just buy the AS documents from the SAE. *They state the
> requirements pretty clearly...

SAE is the Society for Automotive Engineers. I thought all engineers
knew that one, it is on every oil can out there.

Know what a TSO is? Read the TSO's and you find the AS documents.

[RST Engineering]

Because he's got a whole library shelf full of TSOs that he's been designing
to for about forty years now. Most TSOs are comprehensible; the FAR is not.

Regarding the SAE documents, sixty bucks for a couple of simple line graphs
seems a little on the high side, and since you can't get the documents until
you pay the fee, you have no idea if those graphs are even included.

Jim


> He doesn't know the difference between an acronym and a contraction so how
> would he figure out TSO?????

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ernest Christley" > wrote> Is this any help?
>
> http://ernest.is-a-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LED.html
>
This link does not work, but the one below, should. Geeze, not even the author
can get his own link right! <g>

<http://ernest.isa-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LED.html>
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

WEll, Ernest, to be brutally honest with you, no it doesn't help much. You
simply took each individual segment of the gobbledygook FAR and drew a
picture for each one of them. That's fine; what I'm looking for (and what
Stuart Fields is VERY close to doing) is a composite graphic of ALL the
horizontal requirements onto one graph and ALL the vertical requirements
onto another.

But thanks for trying.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Ernest Christley" > wrote in message
...

>> If anybody has a point to a clear post of the brightness requirements,
>> I'd sure be interested in seeing it. Sarangen's article on wingtip
>> lights is about the best I can find, but he duplicates the alpha graph
>> and says nothing about the theta graph.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> Is this any help?
>
> http://ernest.is-a-geek.org/Delta/Experiments/Dyke_Experiment_LED.html
>
> --
>
> http://www.ronpaultimeline.com

[Andrew Sarangan]

On May 8, 10:26 am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> WEll, Ernest, to be brutally honest with you, no it doesn't help much. You
> simply took each individual segment of the gobbledygook FAR and drew a
> picture for each one of them. That's fine; what I'm looking for (and what
> Stuart Fields is VERY close to doing) is a composite graphic of ALL the
> horizontal requirements onto one graph and ALL the vertical requirements
> onto another.
>
> But thanks for trying.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
> --Henry Ford
>
> "Ernest Christley" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >> If anybody has a point to a clear post of the brightness requirements,
> >> I'd sure be interested in seeing it. Sarangen's article on wingtip
> >> lights is about the best I can find, but he duplicates the alpha graph
> >> and says nothing about the theta graph.
>
> >> Jim
>

FAR 23.1391 specifies theta (from dead ahead in horizontal plane) and
23.1393 specifies alpha (above or below horizontal plane). Therefore
the first table is for alpha=0. The second table is simply a scale
factor to figure out the alpha-distribution for each theta. This is
why the first table is given in Candles and the second table has no
units with the max value of 1.0. Basically, to figure out the minimum
intensity for a given theta and alpha, multiply the two numbers from
each table. One should be able to create a 3D plot from this.

[RST Engineering]

Andrew...

I agree with your FAR references, Andrew, but in an article you wrote
entitled "Europa Nav Lights Using Luxeon Leds", page 11, (undated) you have
two graphs. One is for theta = 0° and one is for theta = 90°. Both graphs
are for alpha (x axis) versus candelas (y axis). You further define candela
on the y axis as lumens/steradian.

If you have a subsequent article that clarifies or extends the data in this
article I reference, I'd sure like to see it. The "Europa..." article is
the only one I could find.

I'll be happy to port you the preprint articles for Kitplanes this year
July, August, and September for your review and comment if you like. The
October, and final chapter, is a work in progress, but it only has details
on the power supply and nothing on the light distribution.

Jim

--
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it."
--Aristotle


"Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
news:4785ec47-9bbe-4f4a-b1a5-> FAR 23.1391 specifies theta (from dead ahead
in horizontal plane) and


> 23.1393 specifies alpha (above or below horizontal plane). Therefore
> the first table is for alpha=0. The second table is simply a scale
> factor to figure out the alpha-distribution for each theta. This is
> why the first table is given in Candles and the second table has no
> units with the max value of 1.0. Basically, to figure out the minimum
> intensity for a given theta and alpha, multiply the two numbers from
> each table. One should be able to create a 3D plot from this.

[Andrew Sarangan]

Jim

I added a small section to the same article to hopefully answer some
of your questions. I had no idea that it would be read by anyone
except a handful of Europa builders, but I am glad to help if needed.
http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/europa/wing/Wing-tip-Lights.pdf


On May 14, 9:48 am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> Andrew...
>
> I agree with your FAR references, Andrew, but in an article you wrote
> entitled "Europa Nav Lights Using Luxeon Leds", page 11, (undated) you have
> two graphs. One is for theta = 0° and one is for theta = 90°. Both graphs
> are for alpha (x axis) versus candelas (y axis). You further define candela
> on the y axis as lumens/steradian.
>
> If you have a subsequent article that clarifies or extends the data in this
> article I reference, I'd sure like to see it. The "Europa..." article is
> the only one I could find.
>
> I'll be happy to port you the preprint articles for Kitplanes this year
> July, August, and September for your review and comment if you like. The
> October, and final chapter, is a work in progress, but it only has details
> on the power supply and nothing on the light distribution.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> without accepting it."
> --Aristotle
>
> "Andrew Sarangan" > wrote in message
>
> news:4785ec47-9bbe-4f4a-b1a5-> FAR 23.1391 specifies theta (from dead ahead
> in horizontal plane) and
>
> > 23.1393 specifies alpha (above or below horizontal plane). Therefore
> > the first table is for alpha=0. The second table is simply a scale
> > factor to figure out the alpha-distribution for each theta. This is
> > why the first table is given in Candles and the second table has no
> > units with the max value of 1.0. Basically, to figure out the minimum
> > intensity for a given theta and alpha, multiply the two numbers from
> > each table. One should be able to create a 3D plot from this.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Wed, 14 May 2008 06:48:44 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>Andrew...
>
>I agree with your FAR references, Andrew, but in an article you wrote
>entitled "Europa Nav Lights Using Luxeon Leds", page 11, (undated) you have
>two graphs. One is for theta = 0° and one is for theta = 90°. Both graphs
>are for alpha (x axis) versus candelas (y axis). You further define candela
>on the y axis as lumens/steradian.
>
>If you have a subsequent article that clarifies or extends the data in this
>article I reference, I'd sure like to see it. The "Europa..." article is
>the only one I could find.
>
>I'll be happy to port you the preprint articles for Kitplanes this year
>July, August, and September for your review and comment if you like. The
>October, and final chapter, is a work in progress, but it only has details
>on the power supply and nothing on the light distribution.
>
>Jim


what is a steradian ??????