Douglas Bader-Colditz

[RON]

In the book Colditz, by Henry Chancellor-2001, he states that Bader,
while a POW at Colditz,kept his orderly, Alec Ross, who was about to be
repatriated, two extra years at Colditz so that Ross would remain his
orderly for the duration of Baders' imprisonment.
"he came here as my lackey and he'll stay here as my lackey".
Is there any credence to this authers claim that Bader had the clout
to keep Ross from being repatriated and if he did would he have done so?
Ron

[Presidente Alcazar]

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:48:13 -0500 (EST), (RON)
wrote:

> In the book Colditz, by Henry Chancellor-2001, he states that Bader,
>while a POW at Colditz,kept his orderly, Alec Ross, who was about to be
>repatriated, two extra years at Colditz so that Ross would remain his
>orderly for the duration of Baders' imprisonment.
> "he came here as my lackey and he'll stay here as my lackey".
> Is there any credence to this authers claim that Bader had the clout
>to keep Ross from being repatriated and if he did would he have done so?

I don't know, unless Ross was up for medical repatriation.

Repatriation would have been arranged through the Red Cross, and
normally only on medical grounds after a German medical examination
process. Even if Bader was the Senior British Officer in Colditz
(which I doubt) at any given point, with someconsequent measure of
internal responsibility and authority over the other inmates, his
ability to interfere with a formal repatriation process organised on
medical grounds should have been non-existant. I can't see Bader
having any ability or authority to interfere with both the
decision-making process of German doctors and neutral doctors
appointed by the Red Cross to examine any medical repattration case.

This all assumes Ross was up for medical repatriation, though.

Gavin Bailey

[Jim Doyle]

"Presidente Alcazar" > wrote in
message ...
> On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:48:13 -0500 (EST), (RON)
> wrote:
>
> > In the book Colditz, by Henry Chancellor-2001, he states that Bader,
> >while a POW at Colditz,kept his orderly, Alec Ross, who was about to be
> >repatriated, two extra years at Colditz so that Ross would remain his
> >orderly for the duration of Baders' imprisonment.
> > "he came here as my lackey and he'll stay here as my lackey".
> > Is there any credence to this authers claim that Bader had the clout
> >to keep Ross from being repatriated and if he did would he have done so?
>
> I don't know, unless Ross was up for medical repatriation.
>
> Repatriation would have been arranged through the Red Cross, and
> normally only on medical grounds after a German medical examination
> process. Even if Bader was the Senior British Officer in Colditz
> (which I doubt) at any given point, with someconsequent measure of
> internal responsibility and authority over the other inmates, his
> ability to interfere with a formal repatriation process organised on
> medical grounds should have been non-existant. I can't see Bader
> having any ability or authority to interfere with both the
> decision-making process of German doctors and neutral doctors
> appointed by the Red Cross to examine any medical repattration case.
>
> This all assumes Ross was up for medical repatriation, though.
>
> Gavin Bailey

Pat Reid was one of the first Brits into Colditz, and certainly one of the
first out. Although he was never at Colditz during Bader's tenure, he
subsequently wrote quite a few books on the place (IIRC, the TV show and
film were adaptations of his work). I read 'Colditz, the inside story' just
last summer, and, according to Reid, Bader was solely responsible for Ross
staying there for the duration. Can't remember why Ross was up for
repatriation, but it may've been due to his age or ill health. One of the
two, I'm afraid I don't have the book to hand. Quite an interesting book
actually, well worth the read if you can find a copy.

Jim Doyle

[Presidente Alcazar]

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:34:49 -0000, "Jim Doyle"
> wrote:

[repatriation from Colditz]

>Pat Reid was one of the first Brits into Colditz, and certainly one of the
>first out.

Yes, I read Reid's books on Colditz when I was at school - but I don't
recall anything in them about Bader quashing repatriation for his
orderly, but then it's been a long time since I've read them.

Gavin Bailey

[Dudley Henriques]

"RON" > wrote in message
...
> In the book Colditz, by Henry Chancellor-2001, he states that Bader,
> while a POW at Colditz,kept his orderly, Alec Ross, who was about to be
> repatriated, two extra years at Colditz so that Ross would remain his
> orderly for the duration of Baders' imprisonment.
> "he came here as my lackey and he'll stay here as my lackey".
> Is there any credence to this authors claim that Bader had the clout
> to keep Ross from being repatriated and if he did would he have done so?
> Ron

My opinion is absolutely no, it that opinion matters at all.
I knew Douglas for many years. During that time we discussed numerous issues
and subjects, but seldom talked in great detail about his tenure at Colditz.
He didn't remember it kindly.
I knew about Alec of course, but Douglas never said a word to me that would
indicate
anything that relates to your scenario/question as being accurately founded
in fact.
I would only add that for Douglas to have done something like this even had
he wanted to do so, would have exceeded any authority he had to make it
happen. Also, from my personal experience with Bader, it would be my
considered opinion that committing an action like this would in no way
whatsoever compute with Douglas's later actions when interacting with
people. Douglas could indeed be a hard nose on occasion , but only about
technical issues he believed in strongly; never to my knowledge to the
extent that he would treat someone like this who had openly helped him. I
CAN however FWIW, envision Douglas saying in complete sarcastic jest...with
absolutely no malice intended....and strictly as an inside joke between he
and Alec Ross...the line attributed to him with the lackey reference!
Douglas had a rapier sense of what he felt was funny...and enjoyed
tremendously this kind of fooling around with insiders!!
If you equate the countless hours Douglas spent helping people, especially
children, who had suffered amputation; in many cases actually changing their
very lives by his intervention, it just doesn't compute that he would have
done something like this to Alec. In my opinion, this just isn't Bader at
all.....in any shape or form whatsoever...period!
There are several kooks out there pushing books about Douglas; each
involving some unbelievable scenario. If I were you, It's consider the "hype
factor" seriously before putting any credence in these unfavorable stories
about Douglas Bader.
The DB I knew would NEVER have done things like this!
Just my opinion FWIW.
Thank you,
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

[L'acrobat]

"RON" > wrote in message
...
> In the book Colditz, by Henry Chancellor-2001, he states that Bader,
> while a POW at Colditz,kept his orderly, Alec Ross, who was about to be
> repatriated, two extra years at Colditz so that Ross would remain his
> orderly for the duration of Baders' imprisonment.
> "he came here as my lackey and he'll stay here as my lackey".
> Is there any credence to this authers claim that Bader had the clout
> to keep Ross from being repatriated and if he did would he have done so?
> Ron

From what I have read of Bader, it seems unlikely.

Given his own constant attempts to escape, I cannot imagine he would do
anything to keep someone else prisoner of the Nazis.

It also seems unlikely given his hatred for the Nazis that he would prevent
someone returning to the UK, where they might make a contribution (however
slight) to the fight.

As a practical matter I also find it unlikely that he could overule a
decision to repatriate (on whatever grounds), that the Nazis supported.

[Keith Willshaw]

"L'acrobat" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> From what I have read of Bader, it seems unlikely.
>
> Given his own constant attempts to escape, I cannot imagine he would do
> anything to keep someone else prisoner of the Nazis.
>
> It also seems unlikely given his hatred for the Nazis that he would
prevent
> someone returning to the UK, where they might make a contribution (however
> slight) to the fight.
>
> As a practical matter I also find it unlikely that he could overule a
> decision to repatriate (on whatever grounds), that the Nazis supported.
>

I can imagine however that Ross would have turned down
an offer of repatriation to stay with him, he did after all
request a transfer to Colditz with him in the first place.

Keith

[Jim Doyle]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "L'acrobat" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> >
> > From what I have read of Bader, it seems unlikely.
> >
> > Given his own constant attempts to escape, I cannot imagine he would do
> > anything to keep someone else prisoner of the Nazis.
> >
> > It also seems unlikely given his hatred for the Nazis that he would
> prevent
> > someone returning to the UK, where they might make a contribution
(however
> > slight) to the fight.
> >
> > As a practical matter I also find it unlikely that he could overule a
> > decision to repatriate (on whatever grounds), that the Nazis supported.
> >
>
> I can imagine however that Ross would have turned down
> an offer of repatriation to stay with him, he did after all
> request a transfer to Colditz with him in the first place.
>
> Keith
>

Didn't mean to slander DB earlier, just remembering what Reid had said. I
think you're quite right to suggest that Ross may have turned down the
prospect of repatriation, but his respect for Bader must've been quite
considerable given the circumstances he left himself in having turned-down a
ticket home. Colditz by all accounts was far from hospitable.

Jim