LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY

[ArtKramr]

LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY


I was in Madrid in 1970 on business shooting TV commercials for the Eastman
Kodak Company. This was a sunny lazy Sunday at the Ritz hotel. I was nursing
the last of my excellent room service coffee when the phone rang. "Ola Artur.
Have lunch with us today. OK? Great. Meet you at the Madrid Tennis club at 2
this afternoon. I have some friends I want you to meet. See you later".

I arrived at the Club to see my friends seated and enjoying drinks. As I walked
toward them and my friend Robert rose and said, "Artur. How nice, and here
comes Otto" I turned and behind me was an absolutely huge imposing giant of a
man. Maybe 6'4" 300 pounds. Face scarred and with a beat up look like a fighter
who has had a few too many fights, He thrust out his hand and said "Otto" I
took his hand and he said " Otto Skorzeny". I said, "Arthur Kramer" but I
thought "Nazi son of a bitch" and was sorry I had shaken his hand.

We all sat down. I expected Skorzeny to be course crude and overbearing. In
fact he was extremely polite and soft-spoken. His manner was so courteous and
gentlemanly that I found it very difficult to hate him on a face to face
personal level. The conversation covered the weather, the great food at this
club, what a fine fellow Robert was how did I like Spain? No talk of war at
all. Somehow, here in neutral Spain 25 years after the war it seemed as though
war talk between ex-enemies was neither polite nor called for.

I found out later that Robert had told Otto about my military experiences in
detail. I guess neither one of us cared to dig up the past on this warm sunny
Sunday afternoon. I found out later that Skorzeny got those scars dueling
during his school days in Austria. After the war he was acquitted of all war
crimes and all charges were dropped. During the lunch he spoke to me in
English, to Robert in French and to Robert's wife Rosie in German. He was
impressive, not just on the physical level. But he was man of rather high
intelligence. And he was the man who rescued Mussolini as one of his many
exploits and was generally acknowledged by all sides as the most successful
commando of WW II.
We had finished lunch. We all exchanged good byes, but Skorzeny and I didn't
shake hands. We just nodded cordially at one another. And then we parted.

Otto died in 1975 in Madrid. After I heard of his death I regretted not having
offered him my hand when we parted on that memorable afternoon.


The moral of the story is, if you want to hate a man, don't have lunch with
him.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Krztalizer]

>
>The moral of the story is, if you want to hate a man, don't have lunch with
>him.

I'm glad I never had lunch with him. Skorzeny, eh? Nope - I'd rather keep the
mental image I have of him as the most cold blooded, calculating soldier and
all around tough guy for the Last Reich. He and Rudel, and few thousand other
deluded fools *loved* AH, but few served him better or more tenaciously. I
doubt if I could have eaten.

Quite interesting observations about him -thanks for posting them.
v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: (Krztalizer)
>Date: 2/19/04 8:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>
>>The moral of the story is, if you want to hate a man, don't have lunch with
>>him.
>
>I'm glad I never had lunch with him. Skorzeny, eh? Nope - I'd rather keep
>the
>mental image I have of him as the most cold blooded, calculating soldier and
>all around tough guy for the Last Reich. He and Rudel, and few thousand
>other
>deluded fools *loved* AH, but few served him better or more tenaciously. I
>doubt if I could have eaten.
>
>Quite interesting observations about him -thanks for posting them.
>v/r
>Gordon
><====(A+C====>
> USN SAR
>

You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old Marquis
Riscal. Nice afternoon.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[B2431]

>From: (ArtKramr)
>
>LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>

As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS war
criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable, but
he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.

I am willing to bet he would have been convicted if he were tried in 1946. The
later trials had too many aquittals and light sentences.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Cub Driver]

Hannah Arent wrote a book about "the banality of evil," which came out
of her reporting on the Adolf Eichman trial: that is, her astonishment
that the monster in the flesh should prove to be rather like a
doddering retired postal clerk.

There is no reason an evil-doer can't as easily be an intelligent,
charming man.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: (B2431)
>Date: 2/19/04 11:21 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>From: (ArtKramr)
>>
>>LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>
>
>As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS
>war
>criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable, but
>he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.
>
>I am willing to bet he would have been convicted if he were tried in 1946.
>The
>later trials had too many aquittals and light sentences.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


I understand your point. But I was the guest of a good friend and bad manners
was ou of the question. But I must say that lunch began the healing process
for me. It isn't over yet, but it was the beginning.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: Hobo
>Date: 2/19/04 11:14 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >,
> (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>> id " Otto Skorzeny".
>
>Skorzeny doesn't sound Germanic to me, though I am not an expert. Is it
>a slavic name?


Not all Germans have German sounding names.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Krztalizer]

>
>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old Marquis
>Riscal. Nice afternoon.

I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time, I
can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind the
pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point that
this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims and
head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in a
mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.

Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the spread
was nice at least...

v/r
Gordon
<====(A+C====>
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: (Krztalizer)
>Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>
>>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old Marquis
>>Riscal. Nice afternoon.
>
>I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time, I
>can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind the
>pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
>photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point
>that
>this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims
>and
>head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in a
>mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.
>
>Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the spread
>was nice at least...
>
>v/r
>Gordon
><====(A+C====>
> USN SAR
>
>Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
>reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.
>


I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
manners were required under all conditions.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[BUFDRVR]

>I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
>manners were required under all conditions.
>

That's right, Kramer would have sipped tea with the Furher himself just to
avoid being impolite.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[KtM]

On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>From: (Krztalizer)
>>Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>>
>>>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old Marquis
>>>Riscal. Nice afternoon.
>>
>>I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time, I
>>can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind the
>>pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
>>photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point
>>that
>>this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims
>>and
>>head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in a
>>mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.
>>
>>Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the spread
>>was nice at least...
>>
>>v/r
>>Gordon
>><====(A+C====>
>> USN SAR
>>
>>Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
>>reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.
>>
>
>
>I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
>manners were required under all conditions.
>
>
>
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

As well you were hoped, and I believe
Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
ideology.
(Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
(p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: KtM
>Date: 2/21/04 11:59 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>>>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>>From: (Krztalizer)
>>>Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>>Message-id: >
>>>
>>>>
>>>>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old
>Marquis
>>>>Riscal. Nice afternoon.
>>>
>>>I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the time,
>I
>>>can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking behind
>the
>>>pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a small
>>>photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the point
>>>that
>>>this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight sims
>>>and
>>>head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant in
>a
>>>mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.
>>>
>>>Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the
>spread
>>>was nice at least...
>>>
>>>v/r
>>>Gordon
>>><====(A+C====>
>>> USN SAR
>>>
>>>Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to
>a
>>>reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
>>manners were required under all conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>>Arthur Kramer
>>344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
>As well you were hoped, and I believe
>Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
>IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
>I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
>My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
>opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
>ideology.
>(Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
>but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
>(p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)
>

Und fur das ich bedanke mich.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[B2431]

>From: KtM

<snip>

>As well you were hoped, and I believe
>Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
>IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
>I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
>My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
>opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
>ideology.

Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and that
after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who should
have been hanged.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: (B2431)
>Date: 2/21/04 7:10 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>>From: KtM
>
><snip>
>
>>As well you were hoped, and I believe
>>Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
>>IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
>>I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
>>My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
>>opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
>>ideology.
>
>Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and
>that
>after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
>the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
>Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who
>should
>have been hanged.
>
>Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired
>
>Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired
>
>

After Skorzeny died I got a letter from Robert in Madrid telling me about his
death and that he had died peacefully in his sleep. I know that is not what you
had hoped for, but I thought you might want to know the truth as an end to the
story.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, B2431
> writes
>Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and that
>after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
>the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
>Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who should
>have been hanged.

This is all above Art's paygrade at the time of the meeting. He wasn't
authorised, trained, equipped, paid or ordered to arrest Nazi war
criminals: nor does it sound as if Skorzeny was a fugitive hiding from
justice.

He met the man in a social context, talked to him, and they parted
company. Years later he shared his memories of the incident with us.
What did he do wrong?

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[B2431]

>From: "Paul J. Adam"
>Date: 2/24/2004 5:27 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In message >, B2431
> writes
>>Nice warm and fuzzies don't change the fact that he was an ardent Nazi and
>that
>>after the war he aided SS killers and assisted in their escape. Bear in mind
>>the SS was an all volunteer cesspool and anyone who joined was a true Nazi.
>>Skorzeny may have been brave and innovative, but he was still a pig who
>should
>>have been hanged.
>
>This is all above Art's paygrade at the time of the meeting. He wasn't
>authorised, trained, equipped, paid or ordered to arrest Nazi war
>criminals: nor does it sound as if Skorzeny was a fugitive hiding from
>justice.
>
>He met the man in a social context, talked to him, and they parted
>company. Years later he shared his memories of the incident with us.
>What did he do wrong?
>
>--
>When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
> W S Churchill
>
>Paul J. Adam

Show me where I said Art had done anything wrong. Besides, there were no
outstanding warrants on the murderer.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[funkraum]

> (B2431) wrote:
>>From: (ArtKramr)

>>LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>
>As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS war
>criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable, but
>he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.
>

'he was antisemitic'

Where did you read this ?

[Joe Osman]

"KtM" > wrote in message
...
> On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
> >>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
> >>From: (Krztalizer)
> >>Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >>Message-id: >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old
Marquis
> >>>Riscal. Nice afternoon.
> >>
> >>I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the
time, I
> >>can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking
behind the
> >>pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a
small
> >>photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the
point
> >>that
> >>this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight
sims
> >>and
> >>head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant
in a
> >>mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.
> >>
> >>Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the
spread
> >>was nice at least...
> >>
> >>v/r
> >>Gordon
> >><====(A+C====>
> >> USN SAR
> >>
> >>Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos
to a
> >>reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.
> >>
> >
> >
> >I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
> >manners were required under all conditions.
> >
> >
> >
> >Arthur Kramer
> >344th BG 494th BS
> > England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> >Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> >http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
> As well you were hoped, and I believe
> Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
> IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
> I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
> My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
> opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
> ideology.
> (Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
> but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
> (p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)
>

Skorzeny was a Nazi party member in Austria since the early 1930's, and was
unapologetic about his belief in Hitler in his autobiography "My Commando
Operations."
He was very percepive in noticing that the Allies had excellent operational
intelligence, which he blamed on German traitors in the "Schwarz Kappel."
The book came out before Ultra was declassified.

Joe




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[B2431]

>From: funkraum

>
>> (B2431) wrote:
>>>From: (ArtKramr)
>
>>>LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>>
>>As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS
>war
>>criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable,
>but
>>he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.
>>
>
>'he was antisemitic'
>
>Where did you read this ?

From several sources over the years. No, I can't cite specifics. However, when
he went into the SS it was an all volunteer service where one had to be a
member of the Nazi party. He joined the Austrian Nazi party in 1930. One of the
tenets of the Nazi party is, and always has been, antisemitism. After WW2 he
worked in Spain to help SS murderers escape justice. During the 1950s he was in
Egypt assisting in anti Israel projects.

Yes, I'd say he was antisemitic. Joining the Nazi party before it was expediant
to do so tells me he was rabidly antisemetic.

Dan, U.S. Air force, retired

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: (B2431)
>Date: 2/26/04 4:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>From: funkraum
>
>>
>>> (B2431) wrote:
>>>>From: (ArtKramr)
>>
>>>>LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>>>>
>>>As a Jew I would not have gone near him. He was instrumental in helping SS
>>war
>>>criminals escape after the war. He may have been intelligent and likable,
>>but
>>>he was antisemitic. I hope his death was slow, lingering and painful.
>>>
>>
>>'he was antisemitic'
>>
>>Where did you read this ?
>
>From several sources over the years. No, I can't cite specifics. However,
>when
>he went into the SS it was an all volunteer service where one had to be a
>member of the Nazi party. He joined the Austrian Nazi party in 1930. One of
>the
>tenets of the Nazi party is, and always has been, antisemitism. After WW2 he
>worked in Spain to help SS murderers escape justice. During the 1950s he was
>in
>Egypt assisting in anti Israel projects.
>
>Yes, I'd say he was antisemitic. Joining the Nazi party before it was
>expediant
>to do so tells me he was rabidly antisemetic.
>
>Dan, U.S. Air force, retired

That thought certainly entered my mind as I said, " Bitte darf ich der saltz
haben herr Skorzeny".


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: "Joe Osman"
>Date: 2/26/04 1:45 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"KtM" > wrote in message
...
>> On 20 Feb 2004 19:13:46 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>>
>> >>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>> >>From: (Krztalizer)
>> >>Date: 2/20/04 10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
>> >>Message-id: >
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>You should have been with us. We had rack of Lamb with a 20 year old
>Marquis
>> >>>Riscal. Nice afternoon.
>> >>
>> >>I have a very good friend that flew for the Luftwaffe and 99% of the
>time, I
>> >>can deal with him and has attitudes about those years, but lurking
>behind the
>> >>pleasantness and warm feelings is the knowledge that there is still a
>small
>> >>photo of Hitler hanging on the wall in his den. When it gets to the
>point
>> >>that
>> >>this fact starts disturbing me again, I gather up the books and flight
>sims
>> >>and
>> >>head home, and try not to picture my friend as a glazed-eyed participant
>in a
>> >>mass of humanity, cheering their leader onward.
>> >>
>> >>Skorzeny across the table would have really creeped me out! Glad the
>spread
>> >>was nice at least...
>> >>
>> >>v/r
>> >>Gordon
>> >><====(A+C====>
>> >> USN SAR
>> >>
>> >>Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos
>to a
>> >>reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >I was in Madrid the guest of a French friend and his German wife. Good
>> >manners were required under all conditions.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Arthur Kramer
>> >344th BG 494th BS
>> > England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>> >Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>> >http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>> As well you were hoped, and I believe
>> Hoped to do. After all, the "war" had ended long time ago, and well,
>> IF healing does not start in that time, it does not.
>> I wasn't there, I admit that, and I did not have lunch with him.
>> My country was in war with Russia, alongside germany, but still, my
>> opinion on him is that he fought for his country, not for the
>> ideology.
>> (Some American's know what I mean, The leader is not your favouriite,
>> but it was OUR county that was attacked etc.)
>> (p.s No trolling here, just saying nicely done to art)
>>
>
>Skorzeny was a Nazi party member in Austria since the early 1930's, and was
>unapologetic about his belief in Hitler in his autobiography "My Commando
>Operations."
>He was very percepive in noticing that the Allies had excellent operational
>intelligence, which he blamed on German traitors in the "Schwarz Kappel."
>The book came out before Ultra was declassified.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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>

I was well aware of all that at the time of our meeting. Skorzeny never tried
to hide any of it as bad as it was.

..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: LUNCH WITH SS STURMGRUPENNFUHRER OTTO SKORZENY
>From: Hobo
>Date: 2/27/04 3:01 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >,
> (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>> I was well aware of all that at the time of our meeting. Skorzeny never
>tried
>> to hide any of it as bad as it was.
>
>Which could mean that he didn't think it was bad.


Exactly right. I think he was proud of it all.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Mike Beede]

In article >, B2431 > wrote:

> I hope you got food poisoning.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Because he wouldn't shake Skorzeny's hand? Or because he didn't
spring on him like a panther and beat him senseless? I understand
the sentiment, but not directed on the narrator. Maybe I read it
poorly.

Mike Beede