I've had it.

[Bob Gardner]

I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the temptation.
The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is very little "meat"
in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster interested in learning
anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out in the AOPA Forum, Pilots
of America, and Purple boards.

Bob Gardner

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bob Gardner wrote:
> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the
> temptation. The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is
> very little "meat" in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster
> interested in learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out
> in the AOPA Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
Bob;
I'm registering today on Pilots of America and I'll hit the AOPA forum
as well.
Hope to see you there.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Jim Logajan]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote:
> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the
> temptation. The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is
> very little "meat" in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster
> interested in learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang
> out in the AOPA Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.

If you're still reading any of this, what are the Purple boards?

[gatt[_5_]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> Bob Gardner wrote:

> Bob;
> I'm registering today on Pilots of America and I'll hit the AOPA forum
> as well. Hope to see you there.

I registered on one today and am already registered on the other, but,
it's a shame it has to be that way. Seems like a two or three years ago
this was a very productive and informative forum. Usenet has pretty
much become an anarchic wasteland. I suppose any public forum will
eventually decay into that sort of thing eventually.

-c

[Blueskies]

"gatt" > wrote in message ...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> Bob Gardner wrote:
>
>> Bob;
>> I'm registering today on Pilots of America and I'll hit the AOPA forum
>> as well. Hope to see you there.
>
> I registered on one today and am already registered on the other, but,
> it's a shame it has to be that way. Seems like a two or three years ago
> this was a very productive and informative forum. Usenet has pretty
> much become an anarchic wasteland. I suppose any public forum will
> eventually decay into that sort of thing eventually.
>
> -c
>

That is the reason for Web 2.0...

[Hilton]

Bob Gardner wrote:
>I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the temptation.
>The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is very little
>"meat" in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster interested in
>learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out in the AOPA
>Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.

That's a little unfair, I'm here to learn as are many other people. I think
there are many pilots here wanting to teach, discuss, and learn, but people
insist on feeding the trolls and going off on tangents, both which dilute
the good information with noise. Also, there are many folks out there that
never post, but read the posts to learn - you never hear of many of these
pilots. I do see your point though.

Hilton

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Hilton wrote:
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the temptation.
>> The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is very little
>> "meat" in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster interested in
>> learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out in the AOPA
>> Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.
>
> That's a little unfair, I'm here to learn as are many other people. I think
> there are many pilots here wanting to teach, discuss, and learn, but people
> insist on feeding the trolls and going off on tangents, both which dilute
> the good information with noise. Also, there are many folks out there that
> never post, but read the posts to learn - you never hear of many of these
> pilots. I do see your point though.
>
> Hilton
>
>
I have to admit it Hilton. I agree with Bob. The pain is getting to be
more than the gain. I'm still posting here, but I'm not at all as
enthusiastic about it as I once was.
To tell you the honest truth, my back channel email with pilots is now
much broader than any participation I have on Usenet.
No big deal one way or the other but let's just say it "ain't no fun any
more :-)))"

--
Dudley Henriques

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:13:59 -0400, "Blueskies"
> wrote:

>
>That is the reason for Web 2.0...


Usenet isn't the Web.

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:54:54 -0400, Dudley Henriques
> wrote:

>>
>I have to admit it Hilton. I agree with Bob. The pain is getting to be
>more than the gain. I'm still posting here, but I'm not at all as
>enthusiastic about it as I once was.

I "mark all read", without reading anything, much more than I would
like to. 99% of the messages are two feuding pedantics and one simmer
with issues.

The sad part is that I *like* unmoderated forums, and prefer
newsreaders over web forums. Many web forums use software that is
such a pain to follow, I never go back more than a few times.

[gatt[_5_]]

Hilton wrote:
> Bob Gardner wrote:

>>I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the temptation.
>>The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless.

> That's a little unfair, I'm here to learn as are many other people. I think
> there are many pilots here wanting to teach, discuss, and learn, but people
> insist on feeding the trolls and going off on tangents, both which dilute
> the good information with noise.

Yeah. I suppose Bob has already left the building, but, you're right.
Right now I'm taking a break from writing CFI lesson plans, and all over
my desk I have the sources I've been using and referencing:

1. Aviation Instructor's Handbook, FAA-8083-9
2. Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-8083-3A
3. ASA CFI Test Prep
4. 2008 FAR/AIM
5. Sporty's Training Course Outline
6. "The Flight Instructor's Manual" by William Kershner and
7. "Say Again Please - Guide to Radio Communications by Bob Gardner.

I've been thinking about punching out of r.a groups too because they've
become the new urban CB radio. That's my choice, but, it's a real
damned shame that the sheer volume juvenile behavior on this forum has
driven off yet another respected and recommended aviation expert, from
whom many of us have gained or could gain knowledge and proficiency.

I'm disappointed and disgusted. Any one of his posts might be more
useful to general aviation and pilots than the last four or five
thousand name-calling flamefest posts out here by a handful of people
who have sullied the forum's usefulness. It's one thing to have
flamewar or argument threads that people can choose to ignore, but when
the bickering inevitably spills over to every single discussion in the
forum, then the flame has spread from the fireplace to the whole house
and it can no longer serve its purpose. There are plenty of other forums
for yelling and insulting and acting like babies. Let's leave the fire
in the fireplace and the turds in the toilet and try to reserve this
forum for the discussion of aviation.


-C. Gattman
CP-ASEL-IA-AGI - CFI Candidate - Sim Geek - Student Pilot

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

on 6/6/2008 2:39 PM gatt said the following:
> Usenet has pretty much become an anarchic wasteland.

Nothing new about that...

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."

--Gene Spafford, 1992

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

on 6/6/2008 4:07 PM B A R R Y said the following:
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:13:59 -0400, "Blueskies"
> > wrote:
>
>> That is the reason for Web 2.0...
>
> Usenet isn't the Web.

It didn't even originate on the internet.

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Aren't lesson plans fun? :) Don't take them lightly. You will learn a lot,
not only about aviation, but about teaching and about yourself as a teacher.
The time spent developing your own set of lesson plans is time very well
spent.
Jim

[Blueskies]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:13:59 -0400, "Blueskies"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>That is the reason for Web 2.0...
>
>
> Usenet isn't the Web.

True too, but the traceability and personal responsibility parts are the same. When folks use their real name they do
tend to act different...

[Blueskies]

"gatt" > wrote in message . ..
>
> Yeah. I suppose Bob has already left the building, but, you're right.
> Right now I'm taking a break from writing CFI lesson plans, and all over
> my desk I have the sources I've been using and referencing:
>
> 1. Aviation Instructor's Handbook, FAA-8083-9
> 2. Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-8083-3A
> 3. ASA CFI Test Prep
> 4. 2008 FAR/AIM
> 5. Sporty's Training Course Outline
> 6. "The Flight Instructor's Manual" by William Kershner and
> 7. "Say Again Please - Guide to Radio Communications by Bob Gardner.
>
>
> -C. Gattman
> CP-ASEL-IA-AGI - CFI Candidate - Sim Geek - Student Pilot

Hey, post some of your plans...I'd like to see one

[gatt[_5_]]

Jim Burns wrote:
> Aren't lesson plans fun? :) Don't take them lightly. You will learn a lot,
> not only about aviation, but about teaching and about yourself as a teacher.
> The time spent developing your own set of lesson plans is time very well
> spent.
> Jim

I made my own template based on the FOI examples and referred to the
Sporty's training course plans for sequencing. I'd rather use a
documented structure than have my first students be guinea pigs to my
own ideas about how to teach.

Modified the Sporty's sequencing quite a bit to cover the special
emphasis areas and because the FBO I'll be working out of is at a
towered airport underlying a Class C shelf. A student starting there
will need to know about radio communications, towered airport operations
and airspace rules much earlier than somebody flying out of a rural
untowered airport.

I referred to Kershner and Gardner for individual lessons on maneuvers,
radio communications, etc. which is what I'm finishing up now. It seems
a little tedious at first but once the template is done it goes pretty
fast. Reseaching concepts, organizing bullet points and visuals, and
finding ways of explaining things has been -much- more beneficial than
sitting in a ground school lecture or plodding through a textbook.

-c
Went up with Steven (NWPilot) in his C-150 last Saturday and did
"falling leaf" stalls. That was a blast.

[Jim Logajan]

B A R R Y > wrote:
> I "mark all read", without reading anything, much more than I would
> like to. 99% of the messages are two feuding pedantics and one simmer
> with issues.

I am skipping over quite a few posts myself - but I'm afraid I have helped
contribute to the noise problem by responding to a few of the feuding
parties.

> The sad part is that I *like* unmoderated forums, and prefer
> newsreaders over web forums. Many web forums use software that is
> such a pain to follow, I never go back more than a few times.

Agreed on the web forum software - most of the sites in question use the
same software, alas. Its mechanism for threading makes browsing multiple
threads painful.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"gatt" > wrote in message
. ..
<...>
>
> I referred to Kershner and Gardner for individual lessons on maneuvers,
> radio communications, etc. which is what I'm finishing up now. It seems a
> little tedious at first but once the template is done it goes pretty fast.
> Reseaching concepts, organizing bullet points and visuals, and finding
> ways of explaining things has been -much- more beneficial than sitting in
> a ground school lecture or plodding through a textbook.
>

Not a flight instructor, but I will say that I learn a lot more standing in
front of a classroom than I would have as a student...

The first time you teach something is by far the hardest.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Bob Gardner" wrote:

> The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless.

You quit easily.

Surprising.

--
Dan

T182T at 4R4

[gatt[_5_]]

Blueskies wrote:

>>
>> -C. Gattman
>> CP-ASEL-IA-AGI - CFI Candidate - Sim Geek - Student Pilot
>
>
> Hey, post some of your plans...I'd like to see one

I sent you a PM with (virus-scanned) Word files attached. I tried
pasting one into a reply but the formatting looked awful.

-chris

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Dan Luke wrote:
> "Bob Gardner" wrote:
>
>> The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless.
>
> You quit easily.
>
> Surprising.
>
Not in the least. I understand his reasoning completely.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Blueskies]

"gatt" > wrote in message . ..
> Blueskies wrote:
>
>>>
>>> -C. Gattman
>>> CP-ASEL-IA-AGI - CFI Candidate - Sim Geek - Student Pilot
>>
>>
>> Hey, post some of your plans...I'd like to see one
>
> I sent you a PM with (virus-scanned) Word files attached. I tried
> pasting one into a reply but the formatting looked awful.
>
> -chris

didja fix the address? blueskies at
ameritech dot net

[Christopher Brian Colohan]

Dudley Henriques > writes:
> I have to admit it Hilton. I agree with Bob.

Ditto -- I just registered with pilotsofamerica too. The s/n ratio
here is getting too low...

Chris

[Jon Woellhaf]

With all you guys leaving, pretty soon I'll have this group all to myself.
<g>

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "BG" == Bob Gardner > writes:

BG> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the
BG> temptation. The rec.aviation newsgroups have become
BG> useless. There is very little "meat" in the
BG> postings...sushidot is about the only poster interested in
BG> learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out in
BG> the AOPA Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.

I might follow you there also. The kooks and attention seekers have
taken over any forum not moderated. These days, building an RV, the
only half-useful forum is Vans Air Force, which is moderated. I've
heard the AOPA Forum is anti-experimental but I'll give it a go.

Too bad, because the Usenet format is still far superior to the
"forum" format. Very low bandwidth required for pure text and all
groups in one convenient tool (your newsreader). Using GNUS (Emacs) I
can get through a dozen different groups in 2 to 3 minutes. With the
online, web-based forums it takes far longer to cruise through the
posts. Gotta love the old Un*x tools, still the best for productivity.
--
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
~ Galileo Galilei

[Matt Whiting]

Bob Fry wrote:
>>>>>> "BG" == Bob Gardner > writes:
>
> BG> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the
> BG> temptation. The rec.aviation newsgroups have become
> BG> useless. There is very little "meat" in the
> BG> postings...sushidot is about the only poster interested in
> BG> learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang out in
> BG> the AOPA Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.
>
> I might follow you there also. The kooks and attention seekers have
> taken over any forum not moderated. These days, building an RV, the
> only half-useful forum is Vans Air Force, which is moderated. I've
> heard the AOPA Forum is anti-experimental but I'll give it a go.
>
> Too bad, because the Usenet format is still far superior to the
> "forum" format. Very low bandwidth required for pure text and all
> groups in one convenient tool (your newsreader). Using GNUS (Emacs) I
> can get through a dozen different groups in 2 to 3 minutes. With the
> online, web-based forums it takes far longer to cruise through the
> posts. Gotta love the old Un*x tools, still the best for productivity.

I agree. I participate in a couple of motorcycle forums and find the
user interface overly complex and hard to use as compared to good old
usenet. Some things were just right from the start and usenet is one of
them.

Matt

[gatt[_5_]]

Blueskies wrote:

>> I sent you a PM with (virus-scanned) Word files attached. I tried
>> pasting one into a reply but the formatting looked awful.
>>
>> -chris
>
>
> didja fix the address? blueskies at ameritech dot net

Should have. Did you get them?

-c

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> Bob Gardner wrote:
>> I hate cross-posting, but just this once I will give in to the
>> temptation. The rec.aviation newsgroups have become useless. There is
>> very little "meat" in the postings...sushidot is about the only poster
>> interested in learning anything. If anyone is looking for me, I hang
>> out in the AOPA Forum, Pilots of America, and Purple boards.
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>>
> Bob;
> I'm registering today on Pilots of America and I'll hit the AOPA forum
> as well.
> Hope to see you there.
>

I wonder if AOPA would start us a sub forum Rec.Aviation.Refuges?

[Blueskies]

"gatt" > wrote in message ...
> Blueskies wrote:
>
>>> I sent you a PM with (virus-scanned) Word files attached. I tried
>>> pasting one into a reply but the formatting looked awful.
>>>
>>> -chris
>>
>>
>> didja fix the address? blueskies at ameritech dot net
>
> Should have. Did you get them?
>
> -c

Hmmm, no, but I am on running on a generator right now, power out from the storms.

If you don't mind, please try again...

Thanks!

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

>
> I agree. I participate in a couple of motorcycle forums and find the user
> interface overly complex and hard to use as compared to good old usenet.
> Some things were just right from the start and usenet is one of them.

Indeed.

Simplest is best.

--
Dan

T182T at 4R4