A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL

[ArtKramr]

A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS

One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I thought
I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.

Think of a formation of 56 B-26 Martin Marauders in tight formation. If all are
in tight formation, and release on time and all functions are go the bomb
pattern on the ground will be shaped like a football.

After we fly a mission and the smoke has cleared a P-38 with guns removed and
fitted with cameras will over fly the target area and record the bomb pattern
damage on the ground. It should be a perfect football. But if there is a bulge
or hole in the football pattern, that is trouble.

A bulge in the pattern means someone was out of formation. And astute, well
trained., experienced photo analysis men can not only spot the bulge, they can
identify the pilot that was out of formation. And for that pilot there will be
hell to pay.

If there is a hole in the pattern it means someone dropped late, and there will
be more hell to pay. We didn't send 56 aircraft with 336 aircrews in harms way
for one pilot or bombardier to screw up the mission. And our CO never took
these screw ups lightly. But neither did the aircrews. When someone screwed
up, the aircrews made their displeasure known and friends became few and far
between even when the target was effectively hit.

But the photo guys could tell the difference between a screw up and a single
defective bomb. There were two reasons for a single defective bomb, one was it
was off weight and the other was bent vanes. There were some other causes; a
sticking A-2 shackle could cause a bomb to hang up momentarily and release
late. But that was very different than an entire bomb load going out late.

We lived with this analysis on every mission. And aft And after a mission no
news from ops was good news. And that is the way it was in tactical operations
in WW II. Moral of the story? Keep you head out of your ass and stay alert,
always alert.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Buzzer]

On 02 Mar 2004 00:41:43 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

>A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>
>One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I thought
>I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.

http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/3rdBW/Howitwasay.html

Page down until you hit the round patch with the dice on it. Just
under that for some B-26 cep info from 1952..

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: Buzzer
>Date: 3/1/04 6:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 02 Mar 2004 00:41:43 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>>A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>>
>>One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>>tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
>thought
>>I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>
>http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/3rdBW/Howitwasay.html
>
>Page down until you hit the round patch with the dice on it. Just
>under that for some B-26 cep info from 1952..
>


Great stuff Thanks for posting it. Those were Douglas Invaders. We flew Martin
Marauders. Both were called B-26's finally.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Buzzer]

On 02 Mar 2004 02:59:21 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>>From: Buzzer
>>Date: 3/1/04 6:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>On 02 Mar 2004 00:41:43 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>>
>>>A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>>>
>>>One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>>>tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
>>thought
>>>I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>>
>>http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/3rdBW/Howitwasay.html
>>
>>Page down until you hit the round patch with the dice on it. Just
>>under that for some B-26 cep info from 1952..
>>
>
>
>Great stuff Thanks for posting it. Those were Douglas Invaders. We flew Martin
>Marauders. Both were called B-26's finally.

I am reading that all the B-26s in Europe were destroyed in Germany
after the war and then here they are flying in Korea. Didn't make
sense to me.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: Buzzer
>Date: 3/1/04 7:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On 02 Mar 2004 02:59:21 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>
>>>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>>>From: Buzzer
>>>Date: 3/1/04 6:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>>Message-id: >
>>>
>>>On 02 Mar 2004 00:41:43 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:
>>>
>>>>A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>>>>
>>>>One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>>>>tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
>>>thought
>>>>I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>>>
>>>http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/3rdBW/Howitwasay.html
>>>
>>>Page down until you hit the round patch with the dice on it. Just
>>>under that for some B-26 cep info from 1952..
>>>
>>
>>
>>Great stuff Thanks for posting it. Those were Douglas Invaders. We flew
>Martin
>>Marauders. Both were called B-26's finally.
>
>I am reading that all the B-26s in Europe were destroyed in Germany
>after the war and then here they are flying in Korea. Didn't make
>sense to me.


Different planes. We flew the B-26 Marauder. After the war ended they took away
our Marauders and replaced them with A -26 Douglas Invaders.later renamed B-26
Invaders. Truth be known I enjoyed the Invaders better than the Marauders, You
might want to go to my website and read " In Remembrance of Willie The Wolf"
for the sad time that we lost our Marauders. I feel as though I had lost a
friend.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[John Keeney]

"Buzzer" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am reading that all the B-26s in Europe were destroyed in Germany
> after the war and then here they are flying in Korea. Didn't make
> sense to me.

During WWII something like 4700 Martin "Marauder"s were
designated B-26. After the war the Marauder was retired from
service and the Douglas A-26 "Invader" was renamed B-26
"Invader" in 1948 when the Air Force dropped the "A-" (for Attack)
series of designations.
Come the Vietnam war the Air Force wished to base some
Invaders in Thailand. To over come Tai rules against basing
bombers in their country the Invader was once again designated
the A-26.

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>
> One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
> tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
thought
> I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>

Every RAF Bomber Command Aircraft was fitted with a
camera and photoflah to record individual bombing accuracy.

The pilot had to continue to fly straight and level AFTER
bomb release until the camera flashed. When Radar bombing was used
the camera recorded the image on the radar scope. If there was no picture
it didnt count as a mission.

Keith

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 3/1/04 11:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>>
>> One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>> tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
>thought
>> I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>>
>
>Every RAF Bomber Command Aircraft was fitted with a
>camera and photoflah to record individual bombing accuracy.
>
>The pilot had to continue to fly straight and level AFTER
>bomb release until the camera flashed. When Radar bombing was used
>the camera recorded the image on the radar scope. If there was no picture
>it didnt count as a mission.
>
>Keith
>
>Keith
>
>
The problem with the Brit system was that the target was still smoking when
the pictuere was taken so less information was recorded. But it saved them that
second recon flight If you check my website you will see impact shots taken
with the bombay camera recorded at the detonation moment. Now click on " Death
of a marshalling yard" to see the reults of the recon mission.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...

> >
> >The pilot had to continue to fly straight and level AFTER
> >bomb release until the camera flashed. When Radar bombing was used
> >the camera recorded the image on the radar scope. If there was no picture
> >it didnt count as a mission.
> >
> >Keith

> >
> >
> The problem with the Brit system was that the target was still smoking
when
> the pictuere was taken so less information was recorded. But it saved them
that
> second recon flight If you check my website you will see impact shots
taken
> with the bombay camera recorded at the detonation moment. Now click on "
Death
> of a marshalling yard" to see the reults of the recon mission.
>

The recon flights were still made Art. Since the RAF were flying tight
formations
comparing the in-aircraft camera pictures with the after strike recon
photos was the only way of establishing individual accuracy

Keith

[Buzzer]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:27 -0500, "John Keeney" >
wrote:

>
>"Buzzer" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> I am reading that all the B-26s in Europe were destroyed in Germany
>> after the war and then here they are flying in Korea. Didn't make
>> sense to me.
>
>During WWII something like 4700 Martin "Marauder"s were
>designated B-26. After the war the Marauder was retired from
>service and the Douglas A-26 "Invader" was renamed B-26
>"Invader" in 1948 when the Air Force dropped the "A-" (for Attack)
>series of designations.
>Come the Vietnam war the Air Force wished to base some
>Invaders in Thailand. To over come Tai rules against basing
>bombers in their country the Invader was once again designated
>the A-26.

Checking further they were up at NKP when I was at Ubon in 1966-67.
Glad none of them diverted to Ubon where I could see them. I would
have thought I was in the Twilight Zone. Might be what the C-130 flare
drops from Ubon were supporting.

[Emilio]

>If there is a hole in the pattern it means someone dropped late, and there
will
>be more hell to pay.

I assume the over all formation pattern of B26 was in a form of a circle to
produce football pattern on the ground. That means there should be number
of overlap bombing at the center of football to reduce the hole in the
middle. Am I right?

Emilio.

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>
> One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
> tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
thought
> I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>
> Think of a formation of 56 B-26 Martin Marauders in tight formation. If
all are
> in tight formation, and release on time and all functions are go the bomb
> pattern on the ground will be shaped like a football.
>
> After we fly a mission and the smoke has cleared a P-38 with guns removed
and
> fitted with cameras will over fly the target area and record the bomb
pattern
> damage on the ground. It should be a perfect football. But if there is a
bulge
> or hole in the football pattern, that is trouble.
>
> A bulge in the pattern means someone was out of formation. And astute,
well
> trained., experienced photo analysis men can not only spot the bulge,
they can
> identify the pilot that was out of formation. And for that pilot there
will be
> hell to pay.
>
> If there is a hole in the pattern it means someone dropped late, and there
will
> be more hell to pay. We didn't send 56 aircraft with 336 aircrews in harms
way
> for one pilot or bombardier to screw up the mission. And our CO never took
> these screw ups lightly. But neither did the aircrews. When someone
screwed
> up, the aircrews made their displeasure known and friends became few and
far
> between even when the target was effectively hit.
>
> But the photo guys could tell the difference between a screw up and a
single
> defective bomb. There were two reasons for a single defective bomb, one
was it
> was off weight and the other was bent vanes. There were some other causes;
a
> sticking A-2 shackle could cause a bomb to hang up momentarily and release
> late. But that was very different than an entire bomb load going out late.
>
> We lived with this analysis on every mission. And aft And after a mission
no
> news from ops was good news. And that is the way it was in tactical
operations
> in WW II. Moral of the story? Keep you head out of your ass and stay
alert,
> always alert.
>
>
>
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: "Emilio"
>Date: 3/2/04 7:24 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>If there is a hole in the pattern it means someone dropped late, and there
>will
>>be more hell to pay.
>
>I assume the over all formation pattern of B26 was in a form of a circle to
>produce football pattern on the ground. That means there should be number
>of overlap bombing at the center of football to reduce the hole in the
>middle. Am I right?
>
>Emilio.
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> A BOMB PATTERN IS LIKE A FOOTBALL: BOMB PATTERN ANALYSIS
>>
>> One thing I never see in any WW II literature is bomb pattern analysis in
>> tactical bombing. There is a lot to it that we had to live with, and I
>thought
>> I would share it with those on this NG before it gets lost to history.
>>
>> Think of a formation of 56 B-26 Martin Marauders in tight formation. If
>all are
>> in tight formation, and release on time and all functions are go the bomb
>> pattern on the ground will be shaped like a football.
>>
>> After we fly a mission and the smoke has cleared a P-38 with guns removed
>and
>> fitted with cameras will over fly the target area and record the bomb
>pattern
>> damage on the ground. It should be a perfect football. But if there is a
>bulge
>> or hole in the football pattern, that is trouble.
>>
>> A bulge in the pattern means someone was out of formation. And astute,
>well
>> trained., experienced photo analysis men can not only spot the bulge,
>they can
>> identify the pilot that was out of formation. And for that pilot there
>will be
>> hell to pay.
>>
>> If there is a hole in the pattern it means someone dropped late, and there
>will
>> be more hell to pay. We didn't send 56 aircraft with 336 aircrews in harms
>way
>> for one pilot or bombardier to screw up the mission. And our CO never took
>> these screw ups lightly. But neither did the aircrews. When someone
>screwed
>> up, the aircrews made their displeasure known and friends became few and
>far
>> between even when the target was effectively hit.
>>
>> But the photo guys could tell the difference between a screw up and a
>single
>> defective bomb. There were two reasons for a single defective bomb, one
>was it
>> was off weight and the other was bent vanes. There were some other causes;
>a
>> sticking A-2 shackle could cause a bomb to hang up momentarily and release
>> late. But that was very different than an entire bomb load going out late.
>>
>> We lived with this analysis on every mission. And aft And after a mission
>no
>> news from ops was good news. And that is the way it was in tactical
>operations
>> in WW II. Moral of the story? Keep you head out of your ass and stay
>alert,
>> always alert.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Arthur Kramer
>> 344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>
>
No the formation was football shaped. Another cause of a hole in the pattern
could be a bomb load going out taking improperly installed arming wires with
them. But that was rare.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Emilio]

> No the formation was football shaped. Another cause of a hole in the
pattern
> could be a bomb load going out taking improperly installed arming wires
with
> them. But that was rare.

Were all the bombs released at the same time to form a football pattern on
the ground, or did each bomber released the bombs over the target? Was the
football shape chosen to minimize crosswind condition at the target? In
that case, bomb trajectory can drift sideways and the main axis of football
will be off the target.

Emilio.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: "Emilio"
>Date: 3/2/04 9:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>> No the formation was football shaped. Another cause of a hole in the
>pattern
>> could be a bomb load going out taking improperly installed arming wires
>with
>> them. But that was rare.
>
>Were all the bombs released at the same time to form a football pattern on
>the ground, or did each bomber released the bombs over the target? Was the
>football shape chosen to minimize crosswind condition at the target? In
>that case, bomb trajectory can drift sideways and the main axis of football
>will be off the target.
>
>Emilio.
>
You ask good questions Emilio. The bombs are released via an intervelometer.
The bombardier places his corsshairs where he wants the first bomb to hit. The
intervelometer times the releases so that the full bomb load walks across the
target area from beginning to end. The bombardier via the Norden bombsight
corrects for wind drift and at the low altitudes we flew cross winds on the way
down were rarely a problem. Good questions.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[John Keeney]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > >
> > >The pilot had to continue to fly straight and level AFTER
> > >bomb release until the camera flashed. When Radar bombing was used
> > >the camera recorded the image on the radar scope. If there was no
picture
> > >it didnt count as a mission.
> > >
> > >Keith
>
> > >
> > >
> > The problem with the Brit system was that the target was still smoking
> when
> > the pictuere was taken so less information was recorded. But it saved
them
> that
> > second recon flight If you check my website you will see impact shots
> taken
> > with the bombay camera recorded at the detonation moment. Now click on "
> Death
> > of a marshalling yard" to see the reults of the recon mission.
> >
>
> The recon flights were still made Art. Since the RAF were flying tight
> formations
> comparing the in-aircraft camera pictures with the after strike recon
> photos was the only way of establishing individual accuracy

What was the point? If you are flying tight formation indivual planes
can't correct for drift. Were they not dropping when the lead did and
trying measure the single dimension?

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: "John Keeney"
>Date: 3/2/04 11:56 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > >
>> > >The pilot had to continue to fly straight and level AFTER
>> > >bomb release until the camera flashed. When Radar bombing was used
>> > >the camera recorded the image on the radar scope. If there was no
>picture
>> > >it didnt count as a mission.
>> > >
>> > >Keith
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > The problem with the Brit system was that the target was still smoking
>> when
>> > the pictuere was taken so less information was recorded. But it saved
>them
>> that
>> > second recon flight If you check my website you will see impact shots
>> taken
>> > with the bombay camera recorded at the detonation moment. Now click on "
>> Death
>> > of a marshalling yard" to see the reults of the recon mission.
>> >
>>
>> The recon flights were still made Art. Since the RAF were flying tight
>> formations
>> comparing the in-aircraft camera pictures with the after strike recon
>> photos was the only way of establishing individual accuracy
>
>What was the point? If you are flying tight formation indivual planes
>can't correct for drift. Were they not dropping when the lead did and
>trying measure the single dimension?
>
>

"....trying measure the single dimension..." ?????
I don't understand that last phrase. Please clarify.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Keith Willshaw]

"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>

> >
> > The recon flights were still made Art. Since the RAF were flying tight
> > formations
> > comparing the in-aircraft camera pictures with the after strike recon
> > photos was the only way of establishing individual accuracy
>
> What was the point? If you are flying tight formation indivual planes
> can't correct for drift. Were they not dropping when the lead did and
> trying measure the single dimension?
>
>

Sorry I misstyped

I should have said the RAF were NOT flying tight formations

Basically the night attack formation was the bomber stream, no
attempt was made to fly in formation and each aircraft basically
navigated to the target and dropped on its own. It was rare
for one bomber to even see another much less formate on it.

Later in the war the target would be marked by Pathfinders
and aircraft would be instructed to bomb the markers laid
down by that force.

In daylight they tended to fly a looser formation than the
USAAF with aircraft flying a loose gaggle at staggered heights
and individual aircraft would drop on their own bombardiers
command.

Keith

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A BOMB PATTER IS LIKE A FOOTBALL
>From: "Keith Willshaw"
>Date: 3/3/04 5:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id:

>The recon flights were still made Art. Since the RAF were flying tight
>> > formations
>> > comparing the in-aircraft camera pictures with the after strike recon
>> > photos was the only way of establishing individual accuracy

> What was the point? If you are flying tight formation indivual planes
>> can't correct for drift. Were they not dropping when the lead did and
>> trying measure the single dimension?

>Sorry I misstyped
>
>I should have said the RAF were NOT flying tight formations

Yeah. I wondered about that. (grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer