A Letter from my co-pilots niece

[ArtKramr]

This letter came this morning. It makes having a website worthwhile.

Dear Art,
My name is Cheryl (Monson) Guthrie, Bob's niece. Firstly, I can barely contain
myself as I am overwhelmed with emotion finding and reading your website. After
he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he NEVER
spoke of. Years ago I had planned on contacting one or all of your group to
help me find out any information, but life got busy and went on. His pictures
are so incredible, but I don't know what most of them are. I never lost my
curiosity to get to know my favorite person in the world a bit better. As you
know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid. As he got older, he
did let it leak out how much it meant to him to get together with your group.
Ironically, he was the one who started us saying "I love you" (out loud) in our
family.
Recently I was looking for something for my mom when I came across a trunk that
must have belonged to my Grandmother. In it, amongst other things, was a
handwritten letter to my grandparents speaking of his visit (2nd?) to Dachau
after the war was over. The reality quite chilling. Reading his words prompted
me to get out his military papers and start searching again for stories. There
is so much I want to know.
I found a website that you can send away for a history of missions, but never
heard back. This morning, I somehow ran into your website & recognised your
name. (I remembered the names Kramer & Shorts) Thank you so much, this is
unbelieveable!
If you would ever be willing to talk to me, I would love it and appreciate it.
Hope this finds you in good health.
As my son nears age 18 (born on my/his Uncle's birthday) it truly amazes me
what so many young men did for mankind so many yrs ago. May I sincerely thank
you for your contributions to our freedoms.
Cheryl
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Krztalizer]

cool, Art. What is hard to understand for some folks is that these stories
sometimes have unforeseen consequences - when I wrote about CDR Carlson's and
Mike Ampong's death, it was for my own healing process. Along the way, the
families of both men have contacted me for additional information, as the Navy
didn't tell either family a thing about the accident. Being able to share with
the families helped me in ways I can't put into words, and is really the only
method available to me to honor those former shipmates.

v/r
Gordon

[Greasy Rider]

On 03 Mar 2004 20:33:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) disturbed the
phosphur particles on my screen with the following:

(snipped)

> After he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he NEVER
> spoke of.

First hint.

(snipped)

> As you know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid.

Second hint.

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>From: (Krztalizer)
>Date: 3/3/04 12:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>cool, Art. What is hard to understand for some folks is that these stories
>sometimes have unforeseen consequences - when I wrote about CDR Carlson's and
>Mike Ampong's death, it was for my own healing process. Along the way, the
>families of both men have contacted me for additional information, as the
>Navy
>didn't tell either family a thing about the accident. Being able to share
>with
>the families helped me in ways I can't put into words, and is really the only
>method available to me to honor those former shipmates.
>
>v/r
>Gordon
>
Exactly right. We must always honor those we flew with. We loved Bob, He was a
great co-pilot and a greaa friend as welll as a wiz on the radio compass. The
letter came as a shock and I shed a tear or two on reading it. I have passed it
on to my pilot, Paul Shorts and to our old commanding officer Col Bob Witty.
although he visits my website regularly and I get constant comments from him..
Also many members of the 344th Bomb Group Association who knew Bob are also
regular visitors to the website. Never forget our absent friends wherever they
may be.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Brian Colwell]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> This letter came this morning. It makes having a website worthwhile.
>
> Dear Art,
> My name is Cheryl (Monson) Guthrie, Bob's niece. Firstly, I can barely
contain
> myself as I am overwhelmed with emotion finding and reading your website.
After
> he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he
NEVER
> spoke of. Years ago I had planned on contacting one or all of your group
to
> help me find out any information, but life got busy and went on. His
pictures
> are so incredible, but I don't know what most of them are. I never lost my
> curiosity to get to know my favorite person in the world a bit better. As
you
> know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid. As he got
older, he
> did let it leak out how much it meant to him to get together with your
group.
> Ironically, he was the one who started us saying "I love you" (out loud)
in our
> family.
> Recently I was looking for something for my mom when I came across a trunk
that
> must have belonged to my Grandmother. In it, amongst other things, was a
> handwritten letter to my grandparents speaking of his visit (2nd?) to
Dachau
> after the war was over. The reality quite chilling. Reading his words
prompted
> me to get out his military papers and start searching again for stories.
There
> is so much I want to know.
> I found a website that you can send away for a history of missions, but
never
> heard back. This morning, I somehow ran into your website & recognised
your
> name. (I remembered the names Kramer & Shorts) Thank you so much, this is
> unbelieveable!
> If you would ever be willing to talk to me, I would love it and appreciate
it.
> Hope this finds you in good health.
> As my son nears age 18 (born on my/his Uncle's birthday) it truly amazes
me
> what so many young men did for mankind so many yrs ago. May I sincerely
thank
> you for your contributions to our freedoms.
> Cheryl
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
Art,
Thanks for sharing that with us....It's very touching and must be very
rewarding for you to be able to help fill in some blank spaces regarding his
service with the 344th, for Bob's niece.

Thanks again,
BMC

[ArtKramr]

>ubject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>From: "Brian Colwell"
>Date: 3/3/04 3:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <VOt1c.679326$X%5.655591@pd7tw2no>
>
>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> This letter came this morning. It makes having a website worthwhile.
>>
>> Dear Art,
>> My name is Cheryl (Monson) Guthrie, Bob's niece. Firstly, I can barely
>contain
>> myself as I am overwhelmed with emotion finding and reading your website.
>After
>> he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he
>NEVER
>> spoke of. Years ago I had planned on contacting one or all of your group
>to
>> help me find out any information, but life got busy and went on. His
>pictures
>> are so incredible, but I don't know what most of them are. I never lost my
>> curiosity to get to know my favorite person in the world a bit better. As
>you
>> know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid. As he got
>older, he
>> did let it leak out how much it meant to him to get together with your
>group.
>> Ironically, he was the one who started us saying "I love you" (out loud)
>in our
>> family.
>> Recently I was looking for something for my mom when I came across a trunk
>that
>> must have belonged to my Grandmother. In it, amongst other things, was a
>> handwritten letter to my grandparents speaking of his visit (2nd?) to
>Dachau
>> after the war was over. The reality quite chilling. Reading his words
>prompted
>> me to get out his military papers and start searching again for stories.
>There
>> is so much I want to know.
>> I found a website that you can send away for a history of missions, but
>never
>> heard back. This morning, I somehow ran into your website & recognised
>your
>> name. (I remembered the names Kramer & Shorts) Thank you so much, this is
>> unbelieveable!
>> If you would ever be willing to talk to me, I would love it and appreciate
>it.
>> Hope this finds you in good health.
>> As my son nears age 18 (born on my/his Uncle's birthday) it truly amazes
>me
>> what so many young men did for mankind so many yrs ago. May I sincerely
>thank
>> you for your contributions to our freedoms.
>> Cheryl
>> Arthur Kramer
>> 344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>Art,
> Thanks for sharing that with us....It's very touching and must be very
>rewarding for you to be able to help fill in some blank spaces regarding his
>service with the 344th, for Bob's niece.
>
>Thanks again,
> BMC
>
>

The letter has me in a bit of shock. I have been thinking how to answer it and
it will be a long and complicated answer. There is much to tell her about Bob
that occured during the war that she may not be aware of. I keep thinking of
"Bob's Story" on my website and wondered how it may have effected her. I am
almost afraid to ask.I never meant it to be read by any of Bob's relatives.
The war has us by the throat and won't let go. (sigh)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Mark and Kim Smith]

ArtKramr wrote:

>>ubject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>>From: "Brian Colwell"
>>Date: 3/3/04 3:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <VOt1c.679326$X%5.655591@pd7tw2no>
>>
>>
>>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>>This letter came this morning. It makes having a website worthwhile.
>>>
>>>Dear Art,
>>>My name is Cheryl (Monson) Guthrie, Bob's niece. Firstly, I can barely
>>>
>>>
>>contain
>>
>>
>>>myself as I am overwhelmed with emotion finding and reading your website.
>>>
>>>
>>After
>>
>>
>>>he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he
>>>
>>>
>>NEVER
>>
>>
>>>spoke of. Years ago I had planned on contacting one or all of your group
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>help me find out any information, but life got busy and went on. His
>>>
>>>
>>pictures
>>
>>
>>>are so incredible, but I don't know what most of them are. I never lost my
>>>curiosity to get to know my favorite person in the world a bit better. As
>>>
>>>
>>you
>>
>>
>>>know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid. As he got
>>>
>>>
>>older, he
>>
>>
>>>did let it leak out how much it meant to him to get together with your
>>>
>>>
>>group.
>>
>>
>>>Ironically, he was the one who started us saying "I love you" (out loud)
>>>
>>>
>>in our
>>
>>
>>>family.
>>>Recently I was looking for something for my mom when I came across a trunk
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>must have belonged to my Grandmother. In it, amongst other things, was a
>>>handwritten letter to my grandparents speaking of his visit (2nd?) to
>>>
>>>
>>Dachau
>>
>>
>>>after the war was over. The reality quite chilling. Reading his words
>>>
>>>
>>prompted
>>
>>
>>>me to get out his military papers and start searching again for stories.
>>>
>>>
>>There
>>
>>
>>>is so much I want to know.
>>>I found a website that you can send away for a history of missions, but
>>>
>>>
>>never
>>
>>
>>>heard back. This morning, I somehow ran into your website & recognised
>>>
>>>
>>your
>>
>>
>>>name. (I remembered the names Kramer & Shorts) Thank you so much, this is
>>>unbelieveable!
>>>If you would ever be willing to talk to me, I would love it and appreciate
>>>
>>>
>>it.
>>
>>
>>>Hope this finds you in good health.
>>>As my son nears age 18 (born on my/his Uncle's birthday) it truly amazes
>>>
>>>
>>me
>>
>>
>>>what so many young men did for mankind so many yrs ago. May I sincerely
>>>
>>>
>>thank
>>
>>
>>>you for your contributions to our freedoms.
>>>Cheryl
>>>Arthur Kramer
>>>344th BG 494th BS
>>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Art,
>> Thanks for sharing that with us....It's very touching and must be very
>>rewarding for you to be able to help fill in some blank spaces regarding his
>>service with the 344th, for Bob's niece.
>>
>>Thanks again,
>> BMC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The letter has me in a bit of shock. I have been thinking how to answer it and
>it will be a long and complicated answer. There is much to tell her about Bob
>that occured during the war that she may not be aware of. I keep thinking of
>"Bob's Story" on my website and wondered how it may have effected her. I am
>almost afraid to ask.I never meant it to be read by any of Bob's relatives.
>The war has us by the throat and won't let go. (sigh)
>
>
>Arthur Kramer
>344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>
>

A couple of things come to mind Art. I'm sure she has a gazillion
questions. Why not let her create the path of discussion. It might
make coming up with the answers easier. Maybe along the way you can
point to a direction or two and see if she wants to travel that way. A
simple "Of course I would love to talk to you. What would you like to
know??......................"

The other thought is, with her permission, it would be nice to see the
letter from her up on your web site. Who knows? It might prompt other
folks to come forward!

[Jeff Crowell]

ArtKramr wrote:
> I keep thinking of
> "Bob's Story" on my website and wondered how it may have effected her. I
am
> almost afraid to ask.I never meant it to be read by any of Bob's
relatives.
> The war has us by the throat and won't let go. (sigh)

Art, from where I sit I can only imagine that it will reveal more
of her uncle's life to her. Clearly she wants to know more
about that, or she would never have written to you as she did.
I wouldn't worry about it.

But it might be worth keeping in mind as you record more
memories, to consider that family members might end up
reading them. Not to say you should not write them down,
just to suggest that in some cases it is best if the names aren't
named, as in the case of "I'm Going To Die Today."



Best Regards,

Jeff

[ArtKramr]

>ubject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>From: Mark and Kim Smith
>Date: 3/4/04 1:10 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>ArtKramr wrote:
>
>>>ubject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>>>From: "Brian Colwell"
>>>Date: 3/3/04 3:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>>Message-id: <VOt1c.679326$X%5.655591@pd7tw2no>
>>>
>>>
>>>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>This letter came this morning. It makes having a website worthwhile.
>>>>
>>>>Dear Art,
>>>>My name is Cheryl (Monson) Guthrie, Bob's niece. Firstly, I can barely
>>>>
>>>>
>>>contain
>>>
>>>
>>>>myself as I am overwhelmed with emotion finding and reading your website.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>After
>>>
>>>
>>>>he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found, something he
>>>>
>>>>
>>>NEVER
>>>
>>>
>>>>spoke of. Years ago I had planned on contacting one or all of your group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>help me find out any information, but life got busy and went on. His
>>>>
>>>>
>>>pictures
>>>
>>>
>>>>are so incredible, but I don't know what most of them are. I never lost my
>>>>curiosity to get to know my favorite person in the world a bit better. As
>>>>
>>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid. As he got
>>>>
>>>>
>>>older, he
>>>
>>>
>>>>did let it leak out how much it meant to him to get together with your
>>>>
>>>>
>>>group.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ironically, he was the one who started us saying "I love you" (out loud)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>in our
>>>
>>>
>>>>family.
>>>>Recently I was looking for something for my mom when I came across a trunk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>must have belonged to my Grandmother. In it, amongst other things, was a
>>>>handwritten letter to my grandparents speaking of his visit (2nd?) to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Dachau
>>>
>>>
>>>>after the war was over. The reality quite chilling. Reading his words
>>>>
>>>>
>>>prompted
>>>
>>>
>>>>me to get out his military papers and start searching again for stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>There
>>>
>>>
>>>>is so much I want to know.
>>>>I found a website that you can send away for a history of missions, but
>>>>
>>>>
>>>never
>>>
>>>
>>>>heard back. This morning, I somehow ran into your website & recognised
>>>>
>>>>
>>>your
>>>
>>>
>>>>name. (I remembered the names Kramer & Shorts) Thank you so much, this is
>>>>unbelieveable!
>>>>If you would ever be willing to talk to me, I would love it and appreciate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hope this finds you in good health.
>>>>As my son nears age 18 (born on my/his Uncle's birthday) it truly amazes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>me
>>>
>>>
>>>>what so many young men did for mankind so many yrs ago. May I sincerely
>>>>
>>>>
>>>thank
>>>
>>>
>>>>you for your contributions to our freedoms.
>>>>Cheryl
>>>>Arthur Kramer
>>>>344th BG 494th BS
>>>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Art,
>>> Thanks for sharing that with us....It's very touching and must be very
>>>rewarding for you to be able to help fill in some blank spaces regarding
>his
>>>service with the 344th, for Bob's niece.
>>>
>>>Thanks again,
>>> BMC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The letter has me in a bit of shock. I have been thinking how to answer it
>and
>>it will be a long and complicated answer. There is much to tell her about
>Bob
>>that occured during the war that she may not be aware of. I keep thinking
>of
>>"Bob's Story" on my website and wondered how it may have effected her. I am
>>almost afraid to ask.I never meant it to be read by any of Bob's relatives.
>>The war has us by the throat and won't let go. (sigh)
>>
>>
>>Arthur Kramer
>>344th BG 494th BS
>> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
>>Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
>>http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>>
>>
>
>A couple of things come to mind Art. I'm sure she has a gazillion
>questions. Why not let her create the path of discussion. It might
>make coming up with the answers easier. Maybe along the way you can
>point to a direction or two and see if she wants to travel that way. A
>simple "Of course I would love to talk to you. What would you like to
>know??......................"
>
>The other thought is, with her permission, it would be nice to see the
>letter from her up on your web site. Who knows? It might prompt other
>folks to come forward!
>

I thought of that. But there those on this NG who will demean with snide
snickers all such efforts. I first thought that I never would post my reply
because of these few badmouths. But because of those like you who are
interested I decided to post the reply. But I must protect the memory of my now
gone friend from the handful of bottom feeders on this NG. So I'll keep it
all pretty much private from here on in. Thanks for your interest and sensitive
reply.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: A Letter from my co-pilots niece
>From: "Jeff Crowell"
>Date: 3/4/04 6:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>ArtKramr wrote:
>> I keep thinking of
>> "Bob's Story" on my website and wondered how it may have effected her. I
>am
>> almost afraid to ask.I never meant it to be read by any of Bob's
>relatives.
>> The war has us by the throat and won't let go. (sigh)
>
>Art, from where I sit I can only imagine that it will reveal more
>of her uncle's life to her. Clearly she wants to know more
>about that, or she would never have written to you as she did.
>I wouldn't worry about it.
>
>But it might be worth keeping in mind as you record more
>memories, to consider that family members might end up
>reading them. Not to say you should not write them down,
>just to suggest that in some cases it is best if the names aren't
>named, as in the case of "I'm Going To Die Today."
>
>
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jeff
>
>

Exactly right Jeff. I am very careful about revealing names in cases where is
might cause hurt. But of course Cheryl is fully aware of Bob's loss and can
probably tell me a lot about how it effected Bob in later life. But I am always
carefu on the balance between history and hurt.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Jim Doyle]

"Greasy Rider" > wrote in message
...
> On 03 Mar 2004 20:33:25 GMT, (ArtKramr) disturbed the
> phosphur particles on my screen with the following:
>
> (snipped)
>
> > After he passed away, the War pictures and treasures were found,
something he NEVER
> > spoke of.
>
> First hint.
>
> (snipped)
>
> > As you know, he was a quiet man, and way too much was left unsaid.
>
> Second hint.
>
>
>

Simply unnecessary Greasy - especially given Art's content.

Jim Doyle