Re: Pentagon "lost" $1 trillion

[BUFDRVR]

>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
>
>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
>to public but not to GAO inspectors.

ROFLMAO...ok...now we're cooking with gas....I couldn't wait for this guy to
bring this up. Hey...uhh...genius....the U.S. Army never flew any aircraft
(including helicopters) over Yugoslavia during Operation ALLIED FORCE. If you
anti-American conspiracy nuts would put as much time in research as you did in
building conspiracys, you may not sound as dumb as you do.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Scott Ferrin]

On 11 Mar 2004 22:44:40 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
>>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
>>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
>>
>>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
>>to public but not to GAO inspectors.
>
>ROFLMAO...ok...now we're cooking with gas....I couldn't wait for this guy to
>bring this up. Hey...uhh...genius....the U.S. Army never flew any aircraft
>(including helicopters) over Yugoslavia during Operation ALLIED FORCE. If you
>anti-American conspiracy nuts would put as much time in research as you did in
>building conspiracys, you may not sound as dumb as you do.
>
>
>BUFDRVR
>
>"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
>everyone on Bear Creek"


Are you kidding? If they did research we might never hear from them
again.

[Krztalizer]

>> That's 56 of what type of airplanes out of an inventory of how
>> many total airplanes?
>
>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
>
>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
>to public but not to GAO inspectors.

Classic Petukhov - find a way to hammer any square peg into his "Serb Victory"
hole, no matter how poor the fit.

[Michael Petukhov]

(Krztalizer) wrote in message >...
> >> That's 56 of what type of airplanes out of an inventory of how
> >> many total airplanes?
> >
> >This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
> >those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
> >as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
> >
> >Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
> >to public but not to GAO inspectors.
>
> Classic Petukhov - find a way to hammer any square peg into his "Serb Victory"
> hole, no matter how poor the fit.


I see you don't like it, Gordon. Good!. BTW where are the planes
which tracks were lost by Pentagon? It is not sewing-machines.
These are military planes.

Michael

[Stephen Harding]

BUFDRVR wrote:

> ROFLMAO...ok...now we're cooking with gas....I couldn't wait for this guy to
> bring this up. Hey...uhh...genius....the U.S. Army never flew any aircraft
> (including helicopters) over Yugoslavia during Operation ALLIED FORCE. If you
> anti-American conspiracy nuts would put as much time in research as you did in
> building conspiracys, you may not sound as dumb as you do.

But you're in the USAF no? How can you possibly know about
the secret aircraft that the Army has, and flew and lost in
operations over Yugoland?

The $100B of "missing" Pentagon money could easily be mapped
to 56 "missing" US aircraft of some combination of types.

If the mapping becomes difficult, all you need to do is throw
in some secret types that no one knows about and charge what
you need for them! If 55 aircraft come to only $25B, then
you only need throw in the BS-99 Aurora-Orion disc hovercraft
with plasma stealth and quad laser canons. Cost? A nifty
$75B per copy (which is why there just ain't many that anyone
knows about).

We're in anti-US, conspiro-whacko land here! Historical
record, fact and logic are useless in this place.


SMH


SMH

[George R. Gonzalez]

Personally, I'd much rather have $1T in "lost" stuff, due to the guys in the
field taking the initiative and moving stuff around where it's needed,
versus having warehouses full of well-accounted-for stuff that is too much
trouble for folks to requisition.

[Matt Wiser]

(Krztalizer) wrote:
>>> That's 56 of what type of airplanes out of
>an inventory of how
>>> many total airplanes?
>>
>>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes
>could be
>>those that were accounted by Russian intel
>agencies
>>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
>>
>>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what
>ever they want
>>to public but not to GAO inspectors.
>
>Classic Petukhov - find a way to hammer any
>square peg into his "Serb Victory"
>hole, no matter how poor the fit.
Aren't Michael and Venik one and the same? They still can't believe only
two fixed-wing aircraft were lost in ALLIED FORCE, no matter what even the
Yugos say admitting only two kills (interesting they've now admitted as such
now that old Slobo is now in The Hague).

Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

[B2431]

>From: Stephen Harding

>
>If the mapping becomes difficult, all you need to do is throw
>in some secret types that no one knows about and charge what
>you need for them! If 55 aircraft come to only $25B, then
>you only need throw in the BS-99 Aurora-Orion disc hovercraft
>with plasma stealth and quad laser canons. Cost? A nifty
>$75B per copy (which is why there just ain't many that anyone
>knows about).
>
>We're in anti-US, conspiro-whacko land here! Historical
>record, fact and logic are useless in this place.
>
>
>SMH
>
>
Actually the price went up about $1billion since the aircrews insisted on cup
holders.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Stephen Harding]

B2431 wrote:

>>From: Stephen Harding
>
>>If the mapping becomes difficult, all you need to do is throw
>>in some secret types that no one knows about and charge what
>>you need for them! If 55 aircraft come to only $25B, then
>>you only need throw in the BS-99 Aurora-Orion disc hovercraft
>>with plasma stealth and quad laser canons. Cost? A nifty
>>$75B per copy (which is why there just ain't many that anyone
>>knows about).
>
> Actually the price went up about $1billion since the aircrews insisted on cup
> holders.

Happy troops are effective troops, so what the hey!


SMH

[BUFDRVR]

>I see you don't like it, Gordon. Good!. BTW where are the planes
>which tracks were lost by Pentagon? It is not sewing-machines.
>These are military planes.

Of course I see you ignored my post that pointed out the "lost" aircraft in the
GAO report were *U.S. Army* aircraft and the ones claimed shot down over Serbia
were USAF, USN and USMC. No US Army aircraft flew over Serbia, thus they could
not have been the ones claimed lost by the envious Russians. Conversely, since
the GAO didn't report lost USAF, USN or USMC aircraft that must mean the
Russian report isn't woth its weight in crap <shocking>


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, Krztalizer
> writes
>>> That's 56 of what type of airplanes out of an inventory of how
>>> many total airplanes?
>>
>>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
>>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
>>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
>>
>>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
>>to public but not to GAO inspectors.
>
>Classic Petukhov - find a way to hammer any square peg into his "Serb Victory"
>hole, no matter how poor the fit.

That conjures up exceedingly unpleasant images, and I haven't had my
breakfast yet.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[Michael Petukhov]

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message >...
> >I see you don't like it, Gordon. Good!. BTW where are the planes
> >which tracks were lost by Pentagon? It is not sewing-machines.
> >These are military planes.
>
> Of course I see you ignored my post that pointed out the "lost" aircraft in the
> GAO report were *U.S. Army* aircraft and the ones claimed shot down over Serbia
> were USAF, USN and USMC. No US Army aircraft flew over Serbia, thus they could
> not have been the ones claimed lost by the envious Russians. Conversely, since
> the GAO didn't report lost USAF, USN or USMC aircraft that must mean the
> Russian report isn't woth its weight in crap <shocking>
>

Of course I ignore all your posts. I told you do want my comments
to your crap you have to appologize first (you know for what).
Otherewise sorry, my dear you was shoot down somethere over
Yugoslavia and missing since that time.

Michael

>
> BUFDRVR
>
> "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
> everyone on Bear Creek"

[BUFDRVR]

>Of course I ignore all your posts.

No you don't. What you are guilty of is posting ridiculous jealous Russian
garbage and then run away when confronted with facts. That's exactly as you've
done here.

>I told you do want my comments
>to your crap you have to appologize first (you know for what).

ROFLMAO....for confronting you with facts? You'll never get an apology out of
me for that.

>Otherewise sorry, my dear you was shoot down somethere over
>Yugoslavia and missing since that time.

The Serbs are allowing me to use a computer hooked up to the internet? Mighty
nice of them. What has my family been told? Aren't they (and the media) a bit
curious about a B-52 pilot who deployed to a conflict 5 years ago and never
returned?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[TJ]

Scott Ferrin > wrote in message >...
> On 11 Mar 2004 22:44:40 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:
>
> >>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
> >>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
> >>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
> >>
> >>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
> >>to public but not to GAO inspectors.
> >
> >ROFLMAO...ok...now we're cooking with gas....I couldn't wait for this guy to
> >bring this up. Hey...uhh...genius....the U.S. Army never flew any aircraft
> >(including helicopters) over Yugoslavia during Operation ALLIED FORCE. If you
> >anti-American conspiracy nuts would put as much time in research as you did in
> >building conspiracys, you may not sound as dumb as you do.
> >
> >
> >BUFDRVR
> >
> >"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
> >everyone on Bear Creek"
>
>
> Are you kidding? If they did research we might never hear from them
> again.

Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen? The kid knew too much. The
black helos took him away in the night as he had intimate knowledge of
the 'missing' aircraft in the report. Mladen's website from 1999
claimed that he had a friend who knew the person in charge of the
Eastern part of Yugoslav airspace who had a video of 59 downed
aircraft! Maybe Michael can do some research on the video and track it
down for all of us to see?

TJ

[Drewe Manton]

(TJ) wrote in news:683ee26a.0403130524.4973118
@posting.google.com:

> Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen?

Gee I miss him! Solid entertainment value and no mistake. Perhaps he
finally managed to set up home in Venik's outhouse?

--
Regards
Drewe
"Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colourful rag is unfurled"

[Stephen Harding]

Drewe Manton wrote:

> (TJ) wrote in news:683ee26a.0403130524.4973118
> @posting.google.com:
>
>
>>Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen?
>
>
> Gee I miss him! Solid entertainment value and no mistake. Perhaps he
> finally managed to set up home in Venik's outhouse?

Did Venik go back to Russia?

Last I heard, he was supposed to be a fat cat driving a
Caddy running some sort of business here in the US, but
I figure there may soon be openings for political
commissar positions in Russia before too long.

Not much in the way of money, but lots of status!


SMH

[TJ]

Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> Drewe Manton wrote:
>
> > (TJ) wrote in news:683ee26a.0403130524.4973118
> > @posting.google.com:
> >
> >
> >>Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen?
> >
> >
> > Gee I miss him! Solid entertainment value and no mistake. Perhaps he
> > finally managed to set up home in Venik's outhouse?
>
> Did Venik go back to Russia?
>
> Last I heard, he was supposed to be a fat cat driving a
> Caddy running some sort of business here in the US, but
> I figure there may soon be openings for political
> commissar positions in Russia before too long.
>
> Not much in the way of money, but lots of status!
>
>
> SMH

Still apparently living in the US:

http://www.aeronautics.ru/about.htm

"Venik
Philadelphia, PA
01/11/2004"

Back in 2001 he claimed the following:

"Subject: Re: Venik is defiant but increasingly isolated...
View: Complete Thread (24 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Date: 2001-11-08 08:14:30 PST

I am not a foreign national and I do not accept welfare. I am a US
citizen and I work at a defense company. Get a clue.

Venik"

TJ

[Venik]

TJ, are you again being my personal biographer? I find it flattering, of course, but can't help wondering what's your real
job?

Venik
www.aeronautics.ru

"TJ" > wrote in message om...
> Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
> > Drewe Manton wrote:
> >
> > > (TJ) wrote in news:683ee26a.0403130524.4973118
> > > @posting.google.com:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen?
> > >
> > >
> > > Gee I miss him! Solid entertainment value and no mistake. Perhaps he
> > > finally managed to set up home in Venik's outhouse?
> >
> > Did Venik go back to Russia?
> >
> > Last I heard, he was supposed to be a fat cat driving a
> > Caddy running some sort of business here in the US, but
> > I figure there may soon be openings for political
> > commissar positions in Russia before too long.
> >
> > Not much in the way of money, but lots of status!
> >
> >
> > SMH
>
> Still apparently living in the US:
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/about.htm
>
> "Venik
> Philadelphia, PA
> 01/11/2004"
>
> Back in 2001 he claimed the following:
>
> "Subject: Re: Venik is defiant but increasingly isolated...
> View: Complete Thread (24 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
> Date: 2001-11-08 08:14:30 PST
>
> I am not a foreign national and I do not accept welfare. I am a US
> citizen and I work at a defense company. Get a clue.
>
> Venik"
>
> TJ

[Venik]

This makes one sad that you don't know too much...

--
Venik
www.aeronautics.ru


"TJ" > wrote in message m...
> Scott Ferrin > wrote in message >...
> > On 11 Mar 2004 22:44:40 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:
> >
> > >>This just came to my mind. those 56 airplanes could be
> > >>those that were accounted by Russian intel agencies
> > >>as shot down in Yugoslavia and denied by pentagon.
> > >>
> > >>Quite logical indeed. Pentagon can say what ever they want
> > >>to public but not to GAO inspectors.
> > >
> > >ROFLMAO...ok...now we're cooking with gas....I couldn't wait for this guy to
> > >bring this up. Hey...uhh...genius....the U.S. Army never flew any aircraft
> > >(including helicopters) over Yugoslavia during Operation ALLIED FORCE. If you
> > >anti-American conspiracy nuts would put as much time in research as you did in
> > >building conspiracys, you may not sound as dumb as you do.
> > >
> > >
> > >BUFDRVR
> > >
> > >"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
> > >everyone on Bear Creek"
> >
> >
> > Are you kidding? If they did research we might never hear from them
> > again.
>
> Shhhh. Ever wonder what happened to Mladen? The kid knew too much. The
> black helos took him away in the night as he had intimate knowledge of
> the 'missing' aircraft in the report. Mladen's website from 1999
> claimed that he had a friend who knew the person in charge of the
> Eastern part of Yugoslav airspace who had a video of 59 downed
> aircraft! Maybe Michael can do some research on the video and track it
> down for all of us to see?
>
> TJ

[Stephen Harding]

TJ wrote:

> Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
>>Did Venik go back to Russia?
>
> Still apparently living in the US:
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/about.htm
>
> "Venik
> Philadelphia, PA
> 01/11/2004"
>
> Back in 2001 he claimed the following:
>
> "Subject: Re: Venik is defiant but increasingly isolated...
> View: Complete Thread (24 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
> Date: 2001-11-08 08:14:30 PST
>
> I am not a foreign national and I do not accept welfare. I am a US
> citizen and I work at a defense company. Get a clue.
>
> Venik"

Ahh yes, now I remember. You've brought some old brain
cells back into the net.

Thanks.


SMH

[[email protected]]

In article >,
(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

> What's a point compare incomparables?
It lets people ignore the real issues.

[[email protected]]

Stephen Harding > wrote:

>TJ wrote:
>
>> Stephen Harding > wrote in message >...
>>>Did Venik go back to Russia?
>>
>> Still apparently living in the US:
>>
>> http://www.aeronautics.ru/about.htm
>>
>> "Venik
>> Philadelphia, PA
>> 01/11/2004"
>>
>> Back in 2001 he claimed the following:
>>
>> "Subject: Re: Venik is defiant but increasingly isolated...
>> View: Complete Thread (24 articles)
>> Original Format
>> Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
>> Date: 2001-11-08 08:14:30 PST
>>
>> I am not a foreign national and I do not accept welfare. I am a US
>> citizen and I work at a defense company. Get a clue.
>>
>> Venik"
>
>Ahh yes, now I remember. You've brought some old brain
>cells back into the net.
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>SMH

For me too, however I'm not sure that they're all that welcome...
--

-Gord.

[Stephen Harding]

wrote:

> Stephen Harding > wrote:
>>
>>Ahh yes, now I remember. You've brought some old brain
>>cells back into the net.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
> For me too, however I'm not sure that they're all that welcome...

Don't you know the treatment for that Gord?

Self-dose with liberal amounts of alcohol and the
unwelcome are soon gone!


SMH

[[email protected]]

Stephen Harding > wrote:

wrote:
>
>> Stephen Harding > wrote:
>>>
>>>Ahh yes, now I remember. You've brought some old brain
>>>cells back into the net.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>> For me too, however I'm not sure that they're all that welcome...
>
>Don't you know the treatment for that Gord?
>
>Self-dose with liberal amounts of alcohol and the
>unwelcome are soon gone!
>
>
>SMH

Yep!...worked the last time Steve...can't argue with success!...
--

-Gord.

[TJ]

"Venik" > wrote in message >...
> TJ, are you again being my personal biographer? I find it flattering, of course, but can't help wondering what's your real job?

Venik, you know my real job. It is to keep all those substantial NATO
losses covered up from dedicated professional researchers like
yourself! My team is literally on breaking point after all the
detailed research that you compiled. One of the hardest jobs is
covering up all the START accountable heavy strategic bombers missing
from the US inventory. Your research, I must say, was absolutely
fantastic <g>

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/planesreturning.htm

Venik wrote:

"BUFFs

Now, let's get to the B-52 issue: the Pentagon announced that 11 of
these aircraft will be returning to the US. Here is the complete list
of those American aircraft that are expected to return to the US by
July 8, 1999:

"The Pentagon is ordering 300 of the aircraft it used in the Kosovo
campaign back to their bases in the United States and Europe. These
warplanes are returning to their bases in the next two weeks:
12 F-117s to Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico.
2 EC-130s to Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz.
4 EA-6Bs to Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, Wash.
3 EA-6Bs to Cherry Point Marine Air Station, N.C.
12 F-16s to Shaw AFB, S.C.
1P-3 to Brunswick NAS, Maine.
11 B-52s to Barksdale AFB, La.
6 B-1s to Ellsworth AFB, S.D.
27 KC-135 tankers to various bases.
26 F-15s to the U.S. air base at Lakenheath, England.
20 F-16s to the U.S. air base at Spangdahlem, Germany."
(source: ABC News)

A total of 18 B-52s were deployed to England at the beginning of the
aggression - 16 planes from 2nd Bomb. Wing (Barksdale AFB) and 2 from
the 5th Bomb. Wing (the latter two returned to the US earlier during
the conflict). CNN reported that all American B-52s returned to the US
(by "all" CNN meant 11.) This either means that CNN messed up or that
the 11 B-52s is in fact all that survived the war. Curiously, Serbs
claimed to have shot down or damaged five B-52s. Again, the math is
rather straight forward: 16 - 5 = 11."

entry #251: on May 13 at about 4:25 near Nova Pazova one B-52H was hit
by a SAM and crashed shortly after in the area of Dobanovci
entry #284: on May 20 at 3:03 a B-52H was hit over Borca (near
Belgrade), as was announced by Yugoslav government officials and
television.
entry #289: on the same May 20 at about 4:00 another B-52H was shot
down Mt. Cer, southwest of Sabac.
entry #301: on May 22 at 2:35 a B-52H was shot down over Lipovica,
near Belgrade.
entry #380: on June 7 between 0:12 and 0:40 a suspected B-52H was shot
down in the area between Slankamen and Indija.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/natodown.htm

Venik's B-2 compilation:

"20th of May -.Surcin, Belgrade B-2A Spirit of Missouri, ser. no. AV-8
88-0329. After a direct SAM hit, aircraft crashed near the village of
Dec,
Pecinci district, between Simanovci and Kupinovo."

"1st of June- Srem, Vojvodina B-2A shot down. Aircraft crashed into
Forest
of Spacva, eastern Croatia. According to the unofficial reports, the
aircraft in question is Spirit of Washington ser. no. AV-11 88-0332
but that
is still unconfirmed."

"8th of May - Airfield Petrovec, Skopje Heavily damaged B-2A, after a
direct
hit by Yugoslav air defense tried to crash-land but 'cut off' a
mountain top
instead and exploded."

"Reports that the B-2A, downed on May 20, 1999, crashed in the Spacva
forest
in Croatia are false. This information is being spread by certain
Yugoslav
officials (?) to divert public attention from the fact that B-2A wreck
is
being studied at the VTI research facility in Yugoslavia. As was
originally
reported, the aircraft crashed near Lake Obedska bara in the Dec
area."

"May 20 One American B-2A Spirit strategic stealth bomber (possibly
AV-8
88-0329 Spirit of Missouri) was shot down on 05-20-99 over Surcin at
01:00
local time. The aircraft crashed near the village of Dec (Detch),
Pecinci
county (in the field between Simanovci and Kupinovo; map 1; map2; map
3).
The flight of three B-2As (normally B-2A fly in pairs, one acting as a
backup for another) entered Yugoslavian airspace from the northwest
and was
escorted by several fighter aircraft (B-2As are usually escorted over
Yugoslavia by F-15C fighters and F-16CJ fighter/bombers in SEAD role;
every
mission of B-2As requires about 50 escort and support aircraft). The
B-2As
were detected by long-wave early-warning radars. The bombers reduced
altitude and attacked its targets in Belgrade. One of the B-2As was
hit by a
SAM in the area of the cockpit and crashed shortly after. Crew was
killed in
the crash. The incident was reported by Ilustrovana Politika magazine
on
06-01-99.

The loss of the B-2A "Spirit" on May 20, 1999, was confirmed by the
Foreign
Military Review magazine - the official publication of Russian Defense
Ministry. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. According to the
latest
reports, the B-2A crashed near the Obedska Bara Lake in the Dec area
(villages of Simanovci and Kupinovo). An eyewitness report by a senior
Yugoslav army officer indicates that the B-2A was picked up by a radar
and
sustained a direct hit. The aircraft caught on fire and crashed not
far from
where it was intercepted by the missile. Parts of the B-2A, including
the
forward landing gear cover and pieces of the leading edge of the wing,
have
been seen at the VTI (Military Technology Institute) research facility
in
Yugoslavia. Reports that the B-2A, downed on May 20, 1999, crashed in
the
Spacva forest in Croatia are false. This information is being spread
by
certain Yugoslav officials (?) to divert public attention from the
fact that
B-2A wreck is being studied at the VTI research facility in
Yugoslavia. As
was originally reported, the aircraft crashed near Lake Obedska bara
in the
Dec area."

TJ

[Venik]

I am sure he knows everything about this treatment.

--
Venik
www.aeronautics.ru


"Stephen Harding" > wrote in message ...
> wrote:
>
> > Stephen Harding > wrote:
> >>
> >>Ahh yes, now I remember. You've brought some old brain
> >>cells back into the net.
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >
> > For me too, however I'm not sure that they're all that welcome...
>
> Don't you know the treatment for that Gord?
>
> Self-dose with liberal amounts of alcohol and the
> unwelcome are soon gone!
>
>
> SMH
>

[Venik]

Again, I am flattered that you know my site by heart. Sometimes you should click those links and see my sources. As you may
suspect, I am not Milosevic or General Pavkovic, so I must be getting the info from sources other than my chief of staff
(incidentally, all of the sources are mentioned on my site).

--
Venik
www.aeronautics.ru


"TJ" > wrote in message om...
> "Venik" > wrote in message >...
> > TJ, are you again being my personal biographer? I find it flattering, of course, but can't help wondering what's your
real job?
>
> Venik, you know my real job. It is to keep all those substantial NATO
> losses covered up from dedicated professional researchers like
> yourself! My team is literally on breaking point after all the
> detailed research that you compiled. One of the hardest jobs is
> covering up all the START accountable heavy strategic bombers missing
> from the US inventory. Your research, I must say, was absolutely
> fantastic <g>
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/planesreturning.htm
>
> Venik wrote:
>
> "BUFFs
>
> Now, let's get to the B-52 issue: the Pentagon announced that 11 of
> these aircraft will be returning to the US. Here is the complete list
> of those American aircraft that are expected to return to the US by
> July 8, 1999:
>
> "The Pentagon is ordering 300 of the aircraft it used in the Kosovo
> campaign back to their bases in the United States and Europe. These
> warplanes are returning to their bases in the next two weeks:
> 12 F-117s to Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico.
> 2 EC-130s to Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz.
> 4 EA-6Bs to Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, Wash.
> 3 EA-6Bs to Cherry Point Marine Air Station, N.C.
> 12 F-16s to Shaw AFB, S.C.
> 1P-3 to Brunswick NAS, Maine.
> 11 B-52s to Barksdale AFB, La.
> 6 B-1s to Ellsworth AFB, S.D.
> 27 KC-135 tankers to various bases.
> 26 F-15s to the U.S. air base at Lakenheath, England.
> 20 F-16s to the U.S. air base at Spangdahlem, Germany."
> (source: ABC News)
>
> A total of 18 B-52s were deployed to England at the beginning of the
> aggression - 16 planes from 2nd Bomb. Wing (Barksdale AFB) and 2 from
> the 5th Bomb. Wing (the latter two returned to the US earlier during
> the conflict). CNN reported that all American B-52s returned to the US
> (by "all" CNN meant 11.) This either means that CNN messed up or that
> the 11 B-52s is in fact all that survived the war. Curiously, Serbs
> claimed to have shot down or damaged five B-52s. Again, the math is
> rather straight forward: 16 - 5 = 11."
>
> entry #251: on May 13 at about 4:25 near Nova Pazova one B-52H was hit
> by a SAM and crashed shortly after in the area of Dobanovci
> entry #284: on May 20 at 3:03 a B-52H was hit over Borca (near
> Belgrade), as was announced by Yugoslav government officials and
> television.
> entry #289: on the same May 20 at about 4:00 another B-52H was shot
> down Mt. Cer, southwest of Sabac.
> entry #301: on May 22 at 2:35 a B-52H was shot down over Lipovica,
> near Belgrade.
> entry #380: on June 7 between 0:12 and 0:40 a suspected B-52H was shot
> down in the area between Slankamen and Indija.
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/natodown.htm
>
> Venik's B-2 compilation:
>
> "20th of May -.Surcin, Belgrade B-2A Spirit of Missouri, ser. no. AV-8
> 88-0329. After a direct SAM hit, aircraft crashed near the village of
> Dec,
> Pecinci district, between Simanovci and Kupinovo."
>
> "1st of June- Srem, Vojvodina B-2A shot down. Aircraft crashed into
> Forest
> of Spacva, eastern Croatia. According to the unofficial reports, the
> aircraft in question is Spirit of Washington ser. no. AV-11 88-0332
> but that
> is still unconfirmed."
>
> "8th of May - Airfield Petrovec, Skopje Heavily damaged B-2A, after a
> direct
> hit by Yugoslav air defense tried to crash-land but 'cut off' a
> mountain top
> instead and exploded."
>
> "Reports that the B-2A, downed on May 20, 1999, crashed in the Spacva
> forest
> in Croatia are false. This information is being spread by certain
> Yugoslav
> officials (?) to divert public attention from the fact that B-2A wreck
> is
> being studied at the VTI research facility in Yugoslavia. As was
> originally
> reported, the aircraft crashed near Lake Obedska bara in the Dec
> area."
>
> "May 20 One American B-2A Spirit strategic stealth bomber (possibly
> AV-8
> 88-0329 Spirit of Missouri) was shot down on 05-20-99 over Surcin at
> 01:00
> local time. The aircraft crashed near the village of Dec (Detch),
> Pecinci
> county (in the field between Simanovci and Kupinovo; map 1; map2; map
> 3).
> The flight of three B-2As (normally B-2A fly in pairs, one acting as a
> backup for another) entered Yugoslavian airspace from the northwest
> and was
> escorted by several fighter aircraft (B-2As are usually escorted over
> Yugoslavia by F-15C fighters and F-16CJ fighter/bombers in SEAD role;
> every
> mission of B-2As requires about 50 escort and support aircraft). The
> B-2As
> were detected by long-wave early-warning radars. The bombers reduced
> altitude and attacked its targets in Belgrade. One of the B-2As was
> hit by a
> SAM in the area of the cockpit and crashed shortly after. Crew was
> killed in
> the crash. The incident was reported by Ilustrovana Politika magazine
> on
> 06-01-99.
>
> The loss of the B-2A "Spirit" on May 20, 1999, was confirmed by the
> Foreign
> Military Review magazine - the official publication of Russian Defense
> Ministry. ITAR-TASS report here. Tanjug report here. According to the
> latest
> reports, the B-2A crashed near the Obedska Bara Lake in the Dec area
> (villages of Simanovci and Kupinovo). An eyewitness report by a senior
> Yugoslav army officer indicates that the B-2A was picked up by a radar
> and
> sustained a direct hit. The aircraft caught on fire and crashed not
> far from
> where it was intercepted by the missile. Parts of the B-2A, including
> the
> forward landing gear cover and pieces of the leading edge of the wing,
> have
> been seen at the VTI (Military Technology Institute) research facility
> in
> Yugoslavia. Reports that the B-2A, downed on May 20, 1999, crashed in
> the
> Spacva forest in Croatia are false. This information is being spread
> by
> certain Yugoslav officials (?) to divert public attention from the
> fact that
> B-2A wreck is being studied at the VTI research facility in
> Yugoslavia. As
> was originally reported, the aircraft crashed near Lake Obedska bara
> in the
> Dec area."
>
> TJ

[TJ]

"Venik" > wrote in message >...
> Again, I am flattered that you know my site by heart. Sometimes you should click those links and see my sources. As you may
> suspect, I am not Milosevic or General Pavkovic, so I must be getting the info from sources other than my chief of staff
> (incidentally, all of the sources are mentioned on my site).
>
> --
> Venik
> www.aeronautics.ru

Yes, but sadly Venik you actually believe these things happened! Again
I'll ask you how the START accountable heavy strategic bomber losses
are being covered up?

http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/countingmigs.htm

The above is an absolute joke. Are you aware that the Serbs came back
to the Vienna and Dayton Accord at the end of 1999 and admitted to
having lost 50 combat capable fixed wing aircraft? Out of those 11
were MiG-29s lost to all causes between 24 March 1999 and the end of
conflict. Since the end of the conflict the 127th at Batajnica has
four Fulcrum A and 1 Fulrum B left. To make up the squadron numbers
the Serbs have to rely on the 127th being predominately made up of
Fishbed and Mongol. To justify your claim you are relying solely on
the gaff made by Jamie Shea when he mixed up 29s with 21s. The only
type that left Slatina under technical agreement were those MiG-21s
filmed by UAV and caught on camera by the media as they tranisted
north.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/fakemig.htm

Please explain why you have ONE still from a near 3 minute video?. I
even offered to send you a copy of the tape and I sent you the stills
that show nothing more than the remains of a 600 gallon F-15 fuel
tank. Major Peric even admitted in interview that no ordnance was
fired by either him or his wingman and both MiGs fell in Bosnia with
their weapons load of R-73 and R-27s.

TJ

[Venik]

So your problem is not with my sources but with my beliefs? You are an interesting person. I don't think you are in charge
of the Russian START inspections and neither am I, so you are addressing the question to a wrong person.

--
Venik
www.aeronautics.ru


"TJ" > wrote in message om...
> "Venik" > wrote in message >...
> > Again, I am flattered that you know my site by heart. Sometimes you should click those links and see my sources. As you
may
> > suspect, I am not Milosevic or General Pavkovic, so I must be getting the info from sources other than my chief of
staff
> > (incidentally, all of the sources are mentioned on my site).
> >
> > --
> > Venik
> > www.aeronautics.ru
>
> Yes, but sadly Venik you actually believe these things happened! Again
> I'll ask you how the START accountable heavy strategic bomber losses
> are being covered up?
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/countingmigs.htm
>
> The above is an absolute joke. Are you aware that the Serbs came back
> to the Vienna and Dayton Accord at the end of 1999 and admitted to
> having lost 50 combat capable fixed wing aircraft? Out of those 11
> were MiG-29s lost to all causes between 24 March 1999 and the end of
> conflict. Since the end of the conflict the 127th at Batajnica has
> four Fulcrum A and 1 Fulrum B left. To make up the squadron numbers
> the Serbs have to rely on the 127th being predominately made up of
> Fishbed and Mongol. To justify your claim you are relying solely on
> the gaff made by Jamie Shea when he mixed up 29s with 21s. The only
> type that left Slatina under technical agreement were those MiG-21s
> filmed by UAV and caught on camera by the media as they tranisted
> north.
>
> http://www.aeronautics.ru/fakemig.htm
>
> Please explain why you have ONE still from a near 3 minute video?. I
> even offered to send you a copy of the tape and I sent you the stills
> that show nothing more than the remains of a 600 gallon F-15 fuel
> tank. Major Peric even admitted in interview that no ordnance was
> fired by either him or his wingman and both MiGs fell in Bosnia with
> their weapons load of R-73 and R-27s.
>
> TJ