unfriendly friendlies

[David Windhorst]

What are some early examples of an air force facing hostile a/c
originally produced by its own country's aviation industry (whether they
were sold to a former friendly nation that then became an enemy, or were
captured a/c, or whatever)? The first case I can remember reading about
is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.

[Yann D]

What comes to my mind is :
Captured Fw190d flown by the Russians in 1945
Mirage F1 flown by the Iraki 1991
F14 flown by the Iranians

> What are some early examples of an air force facing hostile a/c
> originally produced by its own country's aviation industry (whether they
> were sold to a former friendly nation that then became an enemy, or were
> captured a/c, or whatever)? The first case I can remember reading about
> is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
> French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
> instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.
>

[Jim Doyle]

"David Windhorst" > wrote in message
...
> What are some early examples of an air force facing hostile a/c
> originally produced by its own country's aviation industry (whether they
> were sold to a former friendly nation that then became an enemy, or were
> captured a/c, or whatever)? The first case I can remember reading about
> is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
> French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
> instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.
>

I'm sure that British aircraft participated in the air war over Finland. The
Finnish Air Force definitely had a number of Bristol Blenheim Is and IVs,
Hawker Hurricanes and Gloster Gladiators. Whether these were still in
service by the time British aircraft made their way into the Russian
inventory, I'm really don't know.

Not exactly WWII or earlier, but the Argentineans operated Canberras during
the Falklands Conflict. Another thread includes a post that describes a
Harrier shooting one down.

Jim D

[Keith Willshaw]

"David Windhorst" > wrote in message
...
> What are some early examples of an air force facing hostile a/c
> originally produced by its own country's aviation industry (whether they
> were sold to a former friendly nation that then became an enemy, or were
> captured a/c, or whatever)? The first case I can remember reading about
> is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
> French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
> instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.
>

There were several clashes between Me-109's of the Swiss Air Force
and the Luftwaffe in June 1940 as German incursions into Swiss Air
space occurred. Several German aircraft were shot down and 3 Swiss
airmen were killed.

During the Iraqi rebellion of 1941 British supplied aircraft fought
a number of actions with the RAF aircraft based at Habbaniyah.

Keith

[Cub Driver]

>The first case I can remember reading about
>is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
>French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
>instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.

Yep, the Wildcats fought the Mohawks (H-75s to the French), along with
a few A-20 Havoc types (DB-6s to the French).

Somewhat similar, the Finns flew Brewster Buffaloes against Curtiss
P-40s and Hawker Hurricanes, though of course there were no Americans
(or Brits) on either side. The Finns sometimes replaced their Wright
Cylone engines with Russian-built copies of the Cyclone, then flew
them against their former owners.

In February 1942, the Japanese army 64th Sentai captured two
Hurricanes in the Dutch Indies and flew them to Thailand, intending to
use them on spook raids against British bases in Burma.
www.warbirdforum.com/werewolf.htm



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: unfriendly friendlies
>From: David Windhorst
>Date: 3/15/04 8:47 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>What are some early examples of an air force facing hostile a/c
>originally produced by its own country's aviation industry (whether they
>were sold to a former friendly nation that then became an enemy, or were
>captured a/c, or whatever)? The first case I can remember reading about
>is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
>French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
>instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.
>


Here is the rule. If a plane, any plane regardless of make or markings points
its nose at you. SHOOT. Every fighter pilot has been briefed to approach
bombers with care lest they be fired upon. Same goes for one fighter carelessly
approaching another fighter. Never go into a fighter approach in unless you
mean it. More than one cutsey-pie fighter pilot cut-up paid for his fun and
games with his life.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Robert Inkol]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
> >The first case I can remember reading about
> >is during the Allied invasion of N. Africa, when P-36s flown by Vichy
> >French were encountered, but it seems there must have been previous
> >instances -- WWI, interwar, or earlier WWII.
>
> Yep, the Wildcats fought the Mohawks (H-75s to the French), along with
> a few A-20 Havoc types (DB-6s to the French).
>
> Somewhat similar, the Finns flew Brewster Buffaloes against Curtiss
> P-40s and Hawker Hurricanes, though of course there were no Americans
> (or Brits) on either side. The Finns sometimes replaced their Wright
> Cylone engines with Russian-built copies of the Cyclone, then flew
> them against their former owners.
>
> In February 1942, the Japanese army 64th Sentai captured two
> Hurricanes in the Dutch Indies and flew them to Thailand, intending to
> use them on spook raids against British bases in Burma.
> www.warbirdforum.com/werewolf.htm
>
>
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (requires authentication)
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com


A few more examples:

-The design of the WWI Machi flying boats was based on a captured
Austrian Lohner flying boat.

- In WWI, both sides manufactured and used the Le Rhone rotaries and
the Austro-Daimler six cylinder inline engines

-During the foreign intervention in the civil war between the Whites
and Reds in Ruyssia, both sides would have used aircraft from the
former allies. However, I don't know to what extent these would have
been involved in combat.

- I have a recollection that the Germans used a captured British
bomber to reconnoiter parts of the UK early in WW 2.

-When Germany attacked Yugoslavia in 1941, the Yugoslav airforce was
equipped with Bf109Es.

-The Norwegians used He 115 float planes at the time of the German
attack during 1940, some of which wound up in British hands.

-The Japanese used licence built versions of the DC-3 and Electra and
developed an unsuccessful heavy bomber based in part on the prototype
DC-4E, which had been purchased before the war.

-The Soviet Union had bought examples of various German aircraft
before the German invasion. I have a recollection that some of these
may have been used for clandestne missions.

Robert Inkol