Fighter takeoff rotation

[Boomer]

I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?




Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!

[Dudley Henriques]

"Boomer" > wrote in message
...
> I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?

Same for the Viper. You rotate between 8 and 12 degrees.
The F14 on a runway is tail feathers close at 10 degrees on rotation, and
you rotate no deeper than that, but the airplane rotates fairly flat and is
airborne before you meet that parameter anyway.
The trick with high performance aircraft of any kind is to rotate through
smoothly without overpitch.
On the other end of the spectrum, I made a takeoff in a stretch DC8 on a
maintenance flight once as a guest in the left seat (compliments of the
airline )
It had a multiple rotation to avoid nailing the tail. If I remember
correctly (it was a LONG time ago :-) it was 8 degrees on the ADI, followed
to 16 after positive rate of climb.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

[John Bailey]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:47 -0600, "Boomer" >
wrote:

>I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
>scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typical of modern fighters?

Here's a war story I can't resist telling.

In 1956, Frank Everest, who was claimed *the fastest man alive*, was
the commander of a squadron on F100s at Hahn Air Base in Germany. A
flight school fellow alum reported to the base and on one of his first
missions scraped the tail pipe of his super sabre. That night he
encountered Col. Everest in the officer's club. He said: Colonel, I
hope you have lots of tailpipes. Answer: No, but I have lots of
pilots.

BTW, that was on landing, not take off. Does the restriction apply
equally?
John Bailey
http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html

[Mark]

I think that if you did a 'poll' most tail scrapes are during landing while
'aero braking' -- raising the nose above the initial landing attitude in
order to assist in slowing down -- (you don't want to do this too soon i.e.
with alot of airspeed you'll end up airborne again all-be-it briefly).

Mark


"John Bailey" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:47 -0600, "Boomer" >
> wrote:
>
> >I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> >scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typical of modern fighters?
>
> Here's a war story I can't resist telling.
>
> In 1956, Frank Everest, who was claimed *the fastest man alive*, was
> the commander of a squadron on F100s at Hahn Air Base in Germany. A
> flight school fellow alum reported to the base and on one of his first
> missions scraped the tail pipe of his super sabre. That night he
> encountered Col. Everest in the officer's club. He said: Colonel, I
> hope you have lots of tailpipes. Answer: No, but I have lots of
> pilots.
>
> BTW, that was on landing, not take off. Does the restriction apply
> equally?
> John Bailey
> http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html

[D. Strang]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>
> It had a multiple rotation to avoid nailing the tail. If I remember
> correctly (it was a LONG time ago :-) it was 8 degrees on the ADI, followed
> to 16 after positive rate of climb.

That's probably about right. I remember the 707 300 series was pull smoothly
to 14 degrees. It hopped off the runway at about 7 degrees anyway. Actually,
if you didn't do anything the aircraft would rotate on its own, usually near V1
though :-(

[Boomer]

OUCH! lol

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"John Bailey" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:23:47 -0600, "Boomer" >
> wrote:
>
> >I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> >scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typical of modern fighters?
>
> Here's a war story I can't resist telling.
>
> In 1956, Frank Everest, who was claimed *the fastest man alive*, was
> the commander of a squadron on F100s at Hahn Air Base in Germany. A
> flight school fellow alum reported to the base and on one of his first
> missions scraped the tail pipe of his super sabre. That night he
> encountered Col. Everest in the officer's club. He said: Colonel, I
> hope you have lots of tailpipes. Answer: No, but I have lots of
> pilots.
>
> BTW, that was on landing, not take off. Does the restriction apply
> equally?
> John Bailey
> http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html

[Matthew G. Saroff]

"Boomer" > wrote:

>I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
>scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?
IIRC, on landing Naval fighters get to a higher pitch
angle.
--
--Matthew Saroff
Rules to live by:
1) To thine own self be true
2) Don't let your mouth write no checks that your butt can't cash
3) Interference in the time stream is forbidden, do not meddle in causality
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

[Mary Shafer]

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:04:01 -0500, Matthew G. Saroff
> wrote:

> "Boomer" > wrote:
>
> >I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> >scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?
> IIRC, on landing Naval fighters get to a higher pitch
> angle.

I don't think so. The F-8 and A-7 had short, squatty gear and tail
strikes were a real concern on both takeoff and landing. We had more
than one tail strike with our F-8 DFBW, and each time it would
downmode the flight computers into backup mode.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

Mary Shafer wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:04:01 -0500, Matthew G. Saroff
> > wrote:
>
> > "Boomer" > wrote:
> >
> > >I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> > >scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?
> > IIRC, on landing Naval fighters get to a higher pitch
> > angle.
>
> I don't think so. The F-8 and A-7 had short, squatty gear and tail
> strikes were a real concern on both takeoff and landing. We had more
> than one tail strike with our F-8 DFBW, and each time it would
> downmode the flight computers into backup mode.

Just a note: Back when Bitburg received its first few F-15s
for familiarization (fall 1976) one of them participated in
the annual Hahn AB airshow the following spring. (I had been
moved there from Bitburg in March 1977, along with the F-4Es.)

He sat at the EOR and cranked it up; rolled perhaps 100 feet
(though those in the know have since told me it had to be at
least twice that) - and yanked the nose straight up!
He was still travelling forward - but presenting the bottom
of his jet to his direction of travel. I got a real sinking
feeling: that in the next second, he would simply fall on his
tail, in a ball of flame; his tailplane was only about the
length of the craft above the runway, and forward motion was
slowing drastically.

However, the Eagle just took off, almost straight up, before
levelling off (perhaps 200-400 feet)... and continuing down
the runway for a looksee from the crowd.

This clearly was not an F-4. While an F-4 could have pulled
the same initial stunt (surely with a bit longer takeoff roll)
- it would have ended up pancaking on its back, a little
further down the runway.

For the first time, I was impressed by the F-4's replacement
- though it would be another decade before the F-15E came along,
completing the replacement with FULL fighter capabilities.
(A/A, A/G, and Strike.)

[Christer Olsson]

Boomer wrote:
> I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?
>

More typically for older fighter-generations. Modern fighters like SAAB
Viggen (see: http://hem.passagen.se/weasle/images/lel/aj37fc.jpg ) has
higher limits..

[Boomer]

lol nice pic, but lets not go crazy here, the Viggen is older than F-15.

--



Curiosity killed the cat, and I'm gonna find out why!
"Christer Olsson" > wrote in message
...
> Boomer wrote:
> > I see that F-15 is limited to about 12º rotation on takeoff to avoid
> > scraping the tail or weapons. Is this fairly typicle of modern fighters?
> >
>
> More typically for older fighter-generations. Modern fighters like SAAB
> Viggen (see: http://hem.passagen.se/weasle/images/lel/aj37fc.jpg ) has
> higher limits..