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Cub Driver
March 17th 04, 05:58 PM
From today's Aero-News email newsletter:

The End Of Manned Fighters?
F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft

The top gun of the
future will be a robot - not your hormone-pumping human aviator.
Unmanned aircraft will be the key to the modern battlefield as the
traditional fighter aircraft is phased out, say industry analysts.
In fact, some believe the F-35 may well be the end of the line for
American fighters. This was the most obvious change at last month's
Asian Aerospace 2004 fair in Singapore. By presenting analyses and
demonstration charts, industry analysts described the decline of
the traditional fighter jet. All agreed this would mark the end of
one era and the beginning of a new one -- when the unmanned
aircraft will lead the way into the modern battlefield.

This prediction is undoubtedly sending anxiety chills down the
spines of air industry executives who fear they are behind time in
entering the new emerging market. They realize existing
21st-century fighter jets and bombers will remain in service,
though more on the basis of continuous upgrading, especially in the
area of avionics and electronic devices. Their rationale supporting
the determination unmanned aircraft, will in the very near future,
take a leading role, is connected to rapid developments of
sophisticated warfare techniques. Accelerated technological
advancements are expected to prevent the growing danger to pilots
and crews in traditionally manned planes. Many of them are already
overwhelmed with high-tech tasks or with learning and coping with
new, almost sci-fi equipment being installed in their cockpits.

The most celebrated exhibit was the one representing Israel's
aircraft industry. The success story around Israeli electronic
developments and other technological advances goes back to times
when other, much stronger nations, refused to recognize the value
of unmanned aircraft. Israel demonstrated and proved the
battlefield value of medium or even small-unmanned aircraft already
in the early '70s.

Shlomo Tzakh, leading
project planner in the engineering division at the Israel aircraft
industry company, who also directs and oversees the development of
unmanned aircraft, told journalists, "The area of unmanned vehicles
leads today in the development of aircraft for military purposes.
The assumption among members of military aeronautics is indeed that
the U.S. F-35 is going to be the last manned aircraft to be
developed."

Tzakh and other experts who met at the Singapore event, say this
is the primary reason for the rapid growth in the development and
manufacturing of unmanned aircraft. According to Tzakh and Israeli
aircraft industry calculations, investments in these and in similar
products, is going to grow seven times within one decade. Tzakh is
famous for being cautious, always holding on to prudence rather
than being hasty. It is, therefore, quite safe to expect these
changes at a significantly faster rate.

While most developers wrestle with problems already solved by
the Israeli aircraft industry in the last few years, the planning
division, as well as planners in Rafael, Israel's Research and
Development Defense Institute, and some companies operating in the
free market and teaming with the U.S. aeronautic industry, are now
moving toward the development of unmanned cargo planes, capable
also of being used as a platform for a variety of intelligence and
weapon systems.

One of the participants
in the Singapore exhibition said the U.S. industry is examining
ways to turn regular military transporters into unmanned vehicles,
while the Israeli preferred method is to plan an unmanned plane
right from the beginning. A cargo aircraft capable of carrying 10
tons of goods, or equipment, stored in containers hooked to its
belly, is now in the early drafting stages. This Israeli model will
have a wing span of 25 meters, it will be driven by two engines and
weigh 30 tons on take off. Some analysts have speculated the model,
although dubbed "cargo plane," will have almost infinite military
uses, including becoming another link in a missile defense
project.

A Chinese observer who was familiar with the project said it
would definitely be capable of carrying into a hostile environment
a large amount of missiles aimed at intercepting enemy missiles. He
also added it could be used as an anti-submarine patrol aircraft,
capable of detecting and destroying under water targets. The
Israeli concept states that developing an unmanned aircraft robot,
acting in an automatic way, is much more feasible than spending
time and efforts on re-configuring existing transporters. Tzakh
refused to reveal any information about the production date of the
Israeli system but said that in the U.S. and Europe many believe
such a platform will be a reality in the 2020s.

An Israeli Internet newspaper quoted Tzakh saying the Israeli
aircraft industry is regarded as a world leader in the development
of unmanned aircraft. Two Israeli models are in active service with
the U.S. Army and Navy, while in Europe the Israeli aircraft
industry is leading a classified research with 40 different
organizations from all corners of the European Union.

The Israeli air force is proud to note that historically it was
the first to use unmanned aircraft in its tactical and strategic
operations. Unmanned aircraft of the Searcher family, used during
the 1982 Lebanon war, was instrumental in discovering and
pinpointing Syrian anti-aircraft batteries, which were then
destroyed. Based on the Searcher's achievements, the U.S. Navy
cooperated with the Israeli aircraft industry in the development of
the Pioneer, which proved a success in the first Gulf War of 1991.
The magazine article also revealed that during the '90s the U.S.
Army commissioned a much more sophisticated unmanned aircraft, the
Hunter, which was built by Israel and the American TRW Company.
Military analysts agree the Hunter was a complete success during
the operations in Kosovo and last year's war in Iraq. TRW was
purchased by Northrop-Grumman who is now trying to provide the
Hunter with attack capabilities by carrying an array of
missiles.

Among others it was
also learned the Israeli aircraft industry is operating a
futuristic unit now focusing on two separate, yet parallel efforts:
the design of heavy unmanned aircraft and that of light naval
platforms. Launching tests of a 300-gram drone designed for
battlefield control by small units were successfully conducted in
Israel and proven as an intelligence asset during operations in the
West Bank and Gaza. This specific model, now being manufactured for
unspecified clients, is called Micro. It weighs 300 grams, carries
a 20-gram camera with a 35-minute durability, and has a flight
ceiling of 300 meters. The latest development of the Micro is
specifically to be used by ground forces involved in urban counter
insurgency activity.

Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
the battlefields of the First World War.
FMI:
www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html

For the WHOLE story, go to
http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Tarver Engineering
March 17th 04, 06:07 PM
"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
>
> The End Of Manned Fighters?
> F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft

> Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
> exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
> attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
> submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
> equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
> the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
> prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
> the battlefields of the First World War.

Imagine that. :)

> FMI:
> www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html
>
> For the WHOLE story, go to
>
http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd

W. D. Allen Sr.
March 17th 04, 06:42 PM
Just like the 1960s when the air-to-air missile was to make made machine
guns unnecessary. That lasted only until the fur balls started over North
Vietnam!

DUUUUH!!!

From an old missile engineer.

WDA

end

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
>
> The End Of Manned Fighters?
> F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
>
> The top gun of the
> future will be a robot - not your hormone-pumping human aviator.
> Unmanned aircraft will be the key to the modern battlefield as the
> traditional fighter aircraft is phased out, say industry analysts.
> In fact, some believe the F-35 may well be the end of the line for
> American fighters. This was the most obvious change at last month's
> Asian Aerospace 2004 fair in Singapore. By presenting analyses and
> demonstration charts, industry analysts described the decline of
> the traditional fighter jet. All agreed this would mark the end of
> one era and the beginning of a new one -- when the unmanned
> aircraft will lead the way into the modern battlefield.
>
> This prediction is undoubtedly sending anxiety chills down the
> spines of air industry executives who fear they are behind time in
> entering the new emerging market. They realize existing
> 21st-century fighter jets and bombers will remain in service,
> though more on the basis of continuous upgrading, especially in the
> area of avionics and electronic devices. Their rationale supporting
> the determination unmanned aircraft, will in the very near future,
> take a leading role, is connected to rapid developments of
> sophisticated warfare techniques. Accelerated technological
> advancements are expected to prevent the growing danger to pilots
> and crews in traditionally manned planes. Many of them are already
> overwhelmed with high-tech tasks or with learning and coping with
> new, almost sci-fi equipment being installed in their cockpits.
>
> The most celebrated exhibit was the one representing Israel's
> aircraft industry. The success story around Israeli electronic
> developments and other technological advances goes back to times
> when other, much stronger nations, refused to recognize the value
> of unmanned aircraft. Israel demonstrated and proved the
> battlefield value of medium or even small-unmanned aircraft already
> in the early '70s.
>
> Shlomo Tzakh, leading
> project planner in the engineering division at the Israel aircraft
> industry company, who also directs and oversees the development of
> unmanned aircraft, told journalists, "The area of unmanned vehicles
> leads today in the development of aircraft for military purposes.
> The assumption among members of military aeronautics is indeed that
> the U.S. F-35 is going to be the last manned aircraft to be
> developed."
>
> Tzakh and other experts who met at the Singapore event, say this
> is the primary reason for the rapid growth in the development and
> manufacturing of unmanned aircraft. According to Tzakh and Israeli
> aircraft industry calculations, investments in these and in similar
> products, is going to grow seven times within one decade. Tzakh is
> famous for being cautious, always holding on to prudence rather
> than being hasty. It is, therefore, quite safe to expect these
> changes at a significantly faster rate.
>
> While most developers wrestle with problems already solved by
> the Israeli aircraft industry in the last few years, the planning
> division, as well as planners in Rafael, Israel's Research and
> Development Defense Institute, and some companies operating in the
> free market and teaming with the U.S. aeronautic industry, are now
> moving toward the development of unmanned cargo planes, capable
> also of being used as a platform for a variety of intelligence and
> weapon systems.
>
> One of the participants
> in the Singapore exhibition said the U.S. industry is examining
> ways to turn regular military transporters into unmanned vehicles,
> while the Israeli preferred method is to plan an unmanned plane
> right from the beginning. A cargo aircraft capable of carrying 10
> tons of goods, or equipment, stored in containers hooked to its
> belly, is now in the early drafting stages. This Israeli model will
> have a wing span of 25 meters, it will be driven by two engines and
> weigh 30 tons on take off. Some analysts have speculated the model,
> although dubbed "cargo plane," will have almost infinite military
> uses, including becoming another link in a missile defense
> project.
>
> A Chinese observer who was familiar with the project said it
> would definitely be capable of carrying into a hostile environment
> a large amount of missiles aimed at intercepting enemy missiles. He
> also added it could be used as an anti-submarine patrol aircraft,
> capable of detecting and destroying under water targets. The
> Israeli concept states that developing an unmanned aircraft robot,
> acting in an automatic way, is much more feasible than spending
> time and efforts on re-configuring existing transporters. Tzakh
> refused to reveal any information about the production date of the
> Israeli system but said that in the U.S. and Europe many believe
> such a platform will be a reality in the 2020s.
>
> An Israeli Internet newspaper quoted Tzakh saying the Israeli
> aircraft industry is regarded as a world leader in the development
> of unmanned aircraft. Two Israeli models are in active service with
> the U.S. Army and Navy, while in Europe the Israeli aircraft
> industry is leading a classified research with 40 different
> organizations from all corners of the European Union.
>
> The Israeli air force is proud to note that historically it was
> the first to use unmanned aircraft in its tactical and strategic
> operations. Unmanned aircraft of the Searcher family, used during
> the 1982 Lebanon war, was instrumental in discovering and
> pinpointing Syrian anti-aircraft batteries, which were then
> destroyed. Based on the Searcher's achievements, the U.S. Navy
> cooperated with the Israeli aircraft industry in the development of
> the Pioneer, which proved a success in the first Gulf War of 1991.
> The magazine article also revealed that during the '90s the U.S.
> Army commissioned a much more sophisticated unmanned aircraft, the
> Hunter, which was built by Israel and the American TRW Company.
> Military analysts agree the Hunter was a complete success during
> the operations in Kosovo and last year's war in Iraq. TRW was
> purchased by Northrop-Grumman who is now trying to provide the
> Hunter with attack capabilities by carrying an array of
> missiles.
>
> Among others it was
> also learned the Israeli aircraft industry is operating a
> futuristic unit now focusing on two separate, yet parallel efforts:
> the design of heavy unmanned aircraft and that of light naval
> platforms. Launching tests of a 300-gram drone designed for
> battlefield control by small units were successfully conducted in
> Israel and proven as an intelligence asset during operations in the
> West Bank and Gaza. This specific model, now being manufactured for
> unspecified clients, is called Micro. It weighs 300 grams, carries
> a 20-gram camera with a 35-minute durability, and has a flight
> ceiling of 300 meters. The latest development of the Micro is
> specifically to be used by ground forces involved in urban counter
> insurgency activity.
>
> Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
> exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
> attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
> submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
> equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
> the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
> prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
> the battlefields of the First World War.
> FMI:
> www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html
>
> For the WHOLE story, go to
>
http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (requires authentication)
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Vaughn
March 17th 04, 11:34 PM
"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
>
> The End Of Manned Fighters?
> F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
>
I believe unmanned fighters are here to stay and there will be an
increasing role for them, but that does not mean that the manned variety are
in any danger of extinction. Actually, we have had unmanned fighters for
decades, we just used to call them missiles.

Remember a few decades ago when they said that guns were obsolete on
fighters?

Vaughn

Ed Majden
March 18th 04, 12:20 AM
"Cub Driver"
> The End Of Manned Fighters?
> F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
>
You mean to tell me that they are bringing back the Bomarc? No arrogant
pilot trying to tell you that he wasn't up-side-down when he fired his
missile and no pesky radar operator telling you his radar was broken just
because he screwed up and couldn't achieve a lock-on!

A ground crew debriefers heaven! ;-)

Ed

Retired AST (Radar Systems Tech) RCAF/CAF

John Carrier
March 18th 04, 12:25 AM
> The End Of Manned Fighters?

No doubt the UCAV will compliment the manned aircraft. Whether as the
majority of the force, or merely a significant supplemental to the manned
jets, remains to be seen. I think they'll arrive in number later rather
than sooner.

R / John

monkey
March 18th 04, 03:01 AM
"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
>...
> "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
> >
> > The End Of Manned Fighters?
> > F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
>
> > Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
> > exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
> > attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
> > submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
> > equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
> > the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
> > prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
> > the battlefields of the First World War.
>
> Imagine that. :)
>
> > FMI:
> > www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html
> >
> > For the WHOLE story, go to
> >
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd

UAVs are not a panacea - they can't do anything. Besides, pilots run
the world's air forces anyhow- we won't give up our cockpits that
easily :)

monkey
March 18th 04, 03:02 AM
"Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message >...
> "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
> >
> > The End Of Manned Fighters?
> > F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
>
> > Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
> > exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
> > attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
> > submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
> > equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
> > the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
> > prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
> > the battlefields of the First World War.
>
> Imagine that. :)
>
> > FMI:
> > www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html
> >
> > For the WHOLE story, go to
> >
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd


Oops I did't mean to type "they can't do anything", I meant
"everything." Maybe they should replace us pilots. Sheeit.

Tarver Engineering
March 18th 04, 03:56 AM
"monkey" > wrote in message
om...
> "Tarver Engineering" > wrote in message
> >...
> > "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > From today's Aero-News email newsletter:
> > >
> > > The End Of Manned Fighters?
> > > F-35 Will Be Last Of Traditional Aircraft
> >
> > > Some of the conclusions to be drawn from the Singapore
> > > exhibition point to the fact the military should shift a lot more
> > > attention to the endless possibilities of unmanned aircraft and
> > > submarines, as well as to other robotic military vehicles and
> > > equipment. These new inventions will undoubtedly change the face of
> > > the modern battlefield in a dramatic way that on the long run will
> > > prove as decisive as the arrival of the first flying machines over
> > > the battlefields of the First World War.
> >
> > Imagine that. :)
> >
> > > FMI:
> > > www.iaf.org.il/iaf/doa_iis.dll/Serve/level/English/1.3.html
> > >
> > > For the WHOLE story, go to
> > >
> >
http://www.aero-news.net/news/military.cfm?ContentBlockID=4045cabb-6fba-48c4-b33c-6e7b909c58cd
>
> UAVs are not a panacea - they can't do anything. Besides, pilots run
> the world's air forces anyhow- we won't give up our cockpits that
> easily :)

I fifty years perhaps.

Cub Driver
March 18th 04, 10:51 AM
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:19 GMT, "Vaughn"
> wrote:

> I believe unmanned fighters are here to stay

Well, sure, but in the way that intercontinental bombers are here to
stay. It's just that we aren't building them any longer.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver
March 18th 04, 10:52 AM
On 17 Mar 2004 19:02:45 -0800, (monkey) wrote:

>Oops I did't mean to type "they can't do anything", I meant
>"everything." Maybe they should replace us pilots. Sheeit.

It's okay. We'll keep you on, as long as you can correct yourself with
such grace!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Vaughn
March 18th 04, 11:10 AM
"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:19 GMT, "Vaughn"
> > wrote:
>
> > I believe unmanned fighters are here to stay
>
> Well, sure, but in the way that intercontinental bombers are here to
> stay. It's just that we aren't building them any longer.

Huh? Are you saying that we are not building unmanned fighters any
more?

Kevin Brooks
March 18th 04, 03:20 PM
"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:19 GMT, "Vaughn"
> > wrote:
>
> > I believe unmanned fighters are here to stay
>
> Well, sure, but in the way that intercontinental bombers are here to
> stay. It's just that we aren't building them any longer.

Ouch. Bad timing. I believe AvLeak recently noted that the USAF is making
noises about developing a (presumably manned) replacement for the BUFF a bit
earlier than was originally planned.

Brooks

>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: (requires authentication)
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
> and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Tarver Engineering
March 18th 04, 03:32 PM
"Kevin Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Cub Driver" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:34:19 GMT, "Vaughn"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > I believe unmanned fighters are here to stay
> >
> > Well, sure, but in the way that intercontinental bombers are here to
> > stay. It's just that we aren't building them any longer.
>
> Ouch. Bad timing. I believe AvLeak recently noted that the USAF is making
> noises about developing a (presumably manned) replacement for the BUFF a
bit
> earlier than was originally planned.

Sorry, but USAF already wasted their money on the F-22.

Dudley Henriques
March 18th 04, 03:39 PM
"John Carrier" > wrote in message
...
> > The End Of Manned Fighters?
>
> No doubt the UCAV will compliment the manned aircraft. Whether as the
> majority of the force, or merely a significant supplemental to the manned
> jets, remains to be seen. I think they'll arrive in number later rather
> than sooner.
>
> R / John

Kinda makes the manufacturers' top engineering brass cringe in amazement
when they have stop and think of some of the fighter pilots they've known in
their lives, :-))) that the one thing they're having trouble replacing is
the hand's on capability of the on site human brain when all their
electronic goodies decide to go down the crapper. :-)))
Dudley

Pete Schaefer
March 18th 04, 03:45 PM
We haven't built any yet. A couple RPVs have been converted to launch some
A-G missiles, but that's it. The only really significant role for UAVs
currently is recon.


"Vaughn" > wrote in message
...
> Huh? Are you saying that we are not building unmanned fighters any
> more?

Tarver Engineering
March 18th 04, 03:48 PM
"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "John Carrier" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > The End Of Manned Fighters?
> >
> > No doubt the UCAV will compliment the manned aircraft. Whether as the
> > majority of the force, or merely a significant supplemental to the
manned
> > jets, remains to be seen. I think they'll arrive in number later rather
> > than sooner.
> >
> > R / John
>
> Kinda makes the manufacturers' top engineering brass cringe in amazement
> when they have stop and think of some of the fighter pilots they've known
in
> their lives, :-))) that the one thing they're having trouble replacing is
> the hand's on capability of the on site human brain when all their
> electronic goodies decide to go down the crapper. :-)))

If the electronic goodies go down so does the airframe.

Pete Schaefer
March 18th 04, 03:52 PM
The bottom line is that UAVs will never proliferate until you can operate
them "hands off" in controlled airspace and not have to give them special
treatement (i.e. functionally equivalent to a manned vehicle). There are
too many operational hassles associated with them currently to allow a
really significant force in proximity to manned assets. So, for now, they
will fill a lot of niche rolls, but that's it. Let 'em do their thing, but
keep them out of the way.

I spent several years researching this problem. When I told the bosses what
we had to do and how much it would cost to pull it
off....."uhhh.....fugedaboutit".

Autonomy tech has a long, long way to go.

Pete

Tarver Engineering
March 18th 04, 10:47 PM
"W. D. Allen Sr." > wrote in message
...
> Just like the 1960s when the air-to-air missile was to make made machine
> guns unnecessary. That lasted only until the fur balls started over North
> Vietnam!

Some sort of unmannned freigher might work out fine though; which is what
the article was really about. Even the loiter weapons we have been
discussing at ram use a manned fighter to deliver them to the field.

Peter Kemp
March 19th 04, 01:24 AM
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:42:28 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> wrote:

>Just like the 1960s when the air-to-air missile was to make made machine
>guns unnecessary. That lasted only until the fur balls started over North
>Vietnam!
>
>DUUUUH!!!

Or those fools who thought turbine engines would ever be worth it
despite their short ranges! Or the absolute morons who believed that
*helicopters* would ever prove useful despite their ability to only
carry one or two people.

Hindsight makes for good rhetoric, , but the simple fact is that not
every grand pronouncement is wrong, and hindsight doesn't emphasise
the right calls, just the bad ones.

---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - drink faster

Cub Driver
March 19th 04, 10:37 AM
>> Well, sure, but in the way that intercontinental bombers are here to
>> stay. It's just that we aren't building them any longer.
>
> Huh? Are you saying that we are not building unmanned fighters any
>more?

"It" of course refers to the most recent noun, with its associated
adjective, to wit: "intercontinental bombers."

Go back and give your English teacher a rap on the knuckles.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Leslie Swartz
March 19th 04, 10:37 PM
Heck, 100 years later we *still* have horses and oxen . . .

Steve Swartz

(if you can't figure out what this means, good. Hopefully you aren't on the
USAF staff . . . )

"Peter Kemp" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:42:28 -0800, "W. D. Allen Sr."
> > wrote:
>
> >Just like the 1960s when the air-to-air missile was to make made machine
> >guns unnecessary. That lasted only until the fur balls started over North
> >Vietnam!
> >
> >DUUUUH!!!
>
> Or those fools who thought turbine engines would ever be worth it
> despite their short ranges! Or the absolute morons who believed that
> *helicopters* would ever prove useful despite their ability to only
> carry one or two people.
>
> Hindsight makes for good rhetoric, , but the simple fact is that not
> every grand pronouncement is wrong, and hindsight doesn't emphasise
> the right calls, just the bad ones.
>
> ---
> Peter Kemp
>
> Life is short - drink faster

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