Ramp Fees

[noname]

I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
ramp fees of $20.
I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
they insisted again.

I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.

Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
rat guide me to parking.

Dave

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"noname" > wrote in message
...
>I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> ramp fees of $20.
> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> they insisted again.
>
> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>

See 14 CFR 91.103 Preflight action
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar
with all available information concerning that flight.

And, was it really tarmac or was it asphalt or concrete?

[/smartass off]

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Gig 601Xl Builder]

noname wrote:
> I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> ramp fees of $20.
> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> they insisted again.
>
> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
> I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> rat guide me to parking.
>
> Dave

If someone in management wasn't available to discuss the issue with I
would have told them to bill me and taken it up with management at a
later date.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

noname wrote:
>I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
>ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
>other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
>was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
>go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
>ramp fees of $20.
>I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
>pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
>they insisted again.
>
>I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
>Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
>though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
>I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
>rat guide me to parking.
>

Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
the following :

Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
solo students.

As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the West
unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Robert M. Gary]

On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> noname wrote:
> >I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> >ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> >other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> >was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> >go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> >ramp fees of $20.
> >I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> >pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> >they insisted again.
>
> >I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> >Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> >though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
> >I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> >rat guide me to parking.
>
> * Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
> the following :
>
> Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
> solo students.
>
> * *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
> Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
> unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
> Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees..
> When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.

I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

-Robert

[Mike[_22_]]

"noname" > wrote in message
...
>I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> ramp fees of $20.
> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> they insisted again.
>
> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?

Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
such things beforehand.

> I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> rat guide me to parking.

In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication and
the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you incurred that
cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you taxied to the ramp.
It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is charging the fee. The
FBO may just be the collection point.

[Mike[_22_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> On Aug 28, 2:44 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> > noname wrote:
> > >I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> > >ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> > >other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> > >was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> > >go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> > >ramp fees of $20.
> > >I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> > >pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> > >they insisted again.
> >
> > >I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
> >
> > >Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> > >though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
> >
> > >I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> > >rat guide me to parking.
> >
> > Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? Both the A/FD and Airnav list
> > the following :
> >
> > Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
> > solo students.
> >
> > As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
> > Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. I rarely see them out in the
> > West
> > unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
> > Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp
> > fees.
> > When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.
>
> I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
> that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
> for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
> lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
> see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
> up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
> over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
> I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
> and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
> These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
> screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
> over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.

I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
was "reserved". I've also had a few other bad experiences with those
particular two. I really don't blame them because they are catering to a
customer who is buying north of 1000 gals of fuel rather than one who is
buying south of 100. Their prices are also typically outrageous for fuel
and they will routinely charge you $40-50 to fill up a small O2 tank.

I just prefer to go to organizations who cater mostly to the piston guys.
I've gotten service equally as good and they appreciate your business.

[dave]

Mike wrote:
> "noname" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
>> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
>> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
>> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
>> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
>> ramp fees of $20.
>> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
>> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
>> they insisted again.
>>
>> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>>
>> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
>> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
> Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
> patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
> such things beforehand.
>
>> I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
>> rat guide me to parking.
>
> In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
> and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
> incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
> taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
> charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.

No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The
airport charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
totally appalled.
I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept
that I was taken by my own ignorance.

The afd from the faa says "Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all
acft except solo students. Flight Notification Service (ADCUS) available."

In hindsight I should have just pulled the chalks and left with them
hanging on my wing and wait for them to bill me.

Dave

[Mike[_22_]]

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mike wrote:
>> "noname" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
>>> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
>>> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
>>> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
>>> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
>>> ramp fees of $20.
>>> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
>>> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
>>> they insisted again.
>>>
>>> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>>>
>>> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
>>> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>>
>> Yes, it is legal. When you land at an airport, you are essentially
>> patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
>> such things beforehand.
>>
>>> I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
>>> rat guide me to parking.
>>
>> In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
>> and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. So you
>> incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
>> taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
>> charging the fee. The FBO may just be the collection point.
>
> No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
> charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.

The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.

> I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
> totally appalled.
> I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
> ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
> I was taken by my own ignorance.

It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that ramp
space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. Your
instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.

From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going to
send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
customer.

[noname]

On Aug 29, 8:39*am, "Mike" > wrote:
> "Dave" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike wrote:
> >> "noname" > wrote in message
> ....
> >>> I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> >>> ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> >>> other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> >>> was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> >>> go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> >>> ramp fees of $20.
> >>> I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> >>> pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> >>> they insisted again.
>
> >>> I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> >>> Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> >>> though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
> >> Yes, it is legal. *When you land at an airport, you are essentially
> >> patronizing a business and the responsibility is with you to investigate
> >> such things beforehand.
>
> >>> I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> >>> rat guide me to parking.
>
> >> In this case, their fees were clearly posted in the official publication
> >> and the fee advertized was a landing fee, not a ramp fee. *So you
> >> incurred that cost as soon as your wheels hit the runway, not when you
> >> taxied to the ramp. It may also be the airport, and not the FBO who is
> >> charging the fee. *The FBO may just be the collection point.
>
> > No the landing fees are totally different than the ramp fees. The airport
> > charges the landing fees and the FBO charges the ramp fees.
>
> The FBO is most likely the collection point for the landing fees.
>
> > I was flying with an instructor who works from that airport and was also
> > totally appalled.
> > I have yet to see anywhere where it is advertised that there is a $20.00
> > ramp fee. If anybody can find one, please let me know and I'll accept that
> > I was taken by my own ignorance.
>
> It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
> especially if you are not buying fuel. *Typically they are leasing that ramp
> space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you can
> bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it. *Your
> instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.
>
> From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other than
> the ramp. *Why didn't you use one of those? *Even with FBOs that don't
> charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a customer
> and there's other space available. *The reason is because they are going to
> send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red carpet,
> and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
> customer.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.

I was picking up the instructor.

[xyzzy]

On Aug 28, 6:07*pm, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2:44*pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
>
>
>
> > noname wrote:
> > >I landed at Bridgeport airport in Connecticut to pick up a friend and
> > >ended up at Atlantic Aviation Services. I was trying to get on the
> > >other side of the tarmac to where my friends plane was parked but it
> > >was blocked. The FBO guy waved me in to park and with nowhere else to
> > >go I parked. Before I got off the wing of my plane, I was told to pay
> > >ramp fees of $20.
> > >I told him I was going to leave and he insisted that I go inside and
> > >pay or I would get billed via N number. I went in and complained and
> > >they insisted again.
>
> > >I paid and commented on their policy which left them surprised.
>
> > >Is this legal to not have the ramp fees posted and demand payment even
> > >though I offered to leave their ramp immediately?
>
> > >I think that it is entrampment by having the ramp blocked and the ramp
> > >rat guide me to parking.
>
> > * Are you sure that wasn't the landing fee? *Both the A/FD and Airnav list
> > the following :
>
> > Parking fee all acft after 2 hrs. Ldg fee all acft except
> > solo students.
>
> > * *As for unposted ramp fees, I don't like 'em either, but they do exist.
> > Seems to be mostly an Eastern U.S. thing. *I rarely see them out in the West
> > unless I'm going to a large class B or C airport, or if it's an FBO like
> > Millionare or Signature, which are somewhat famous for charging ramp fees.
> > When in doubt, I usually call ahead and ask, or check Airnav.
>
> I use Millionare and Signature all the time. I decided awhile back
> that the extra fees are more than worth it for the extra help you get
> for the rental car, service, etc when flying with the family. I know a
> lot of guys who's family (wife, etc) won't fly with them because they
> see it as a hassle. Spend the few extra bucks and have Signature fill
> up your plane rather than make your wife get into a hot airplane, taxi
> over to fuel, get out, get back in, etc. Just makes everything easier.
> I usually buy gas, O2 and snacks, etc. I don't mention the tie down
> and they often forget to charge me for it so its often not an issue.
> These "top grade" FBOs are also great when the rental car company
> screws up your car (which is frequent), because they will drive you
> over to the rental car lot or even to your hotel for free.
>

The other thing is that when you divert to the nearby class C at 1:00
am because your home airport fogged in, guess which FBO is going to be
the only one available to help you? You're not just paying for the
red carpet service, you're also paying for the availability at odd
hours when you might need it someday. I didn't begrudge them their
fees or even towing the airplaine to the far corner when that happened
to me, I was grateful to have a place that could get me a cab home,
including driving me over to the main terminal to pick up the cab.
That costs money to maintain.

[Mike[_22_]]

"noname" > wrote in message
...
> On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" > wrote:
<snip>
> > It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
> > especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
> > ramp
> > space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
> > can
> > bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
> > Your
> > instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.
> >
> > From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
> > than
> > the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
> > charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
> > customer
> > and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
> > to
> > send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
> > carpet,
> > and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
> > customer.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
> information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
> When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
> airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.
>
> I was picking up the instructor.

The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do it.
I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I understand
why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never charge any
fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.

FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking service
or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your aircraft and
othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.

There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Aug 28, 4:57*pm, "Mike" > wrote:

> I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
> Signature. *Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you like
> a leper if you are a Avgas burner. *They will quite often park you in the
> remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and I've
> had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and it
> was "reserved". *

I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
ready for it.

I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
pick up my car.
At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
somewhere cool.


-Robert

[Clyde Woempner]

It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.
"Mike" > wrote in message
news:p6Ytk.34$jE1.14@trnddc03...
> "noname" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Aug 29, 8:39 am, "Mike" > wrote:
> <snip>
>> > It's certainly not rare for FBOs to charge a fee for using their ramp,
>> > especially if you are not buying fuel. Typically they are leasing that
>> > ramp
>> > space from the owner of the airport, and if that space is limited you
>> > can
>> > bet they are going to discourage non-customer aircraft from using it.
>> > Your
>> > instructor should have known that, especially if he's based there.
>> >
>> > From the airport diagram, there are several parking areas listed other
>> > than
>> > the ramp. Why didn't you use one of those? Even with FBOs that don't
>> > charge a ramp fee, it's bad form to use their ramp if you're not a
>> > customer
>> > and there's other space available. The reason is because they are going
>> > to
>> > send someone out to park you, chalk your aircraft, put down the red
>> > carpet,
>> > and/or put cones around your aircraft because they assume you are a
>> > customer.- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I understand about ramp fees and why they are used. There was no
>> information anywhere about charging the ramp fee.
>> When told there was a ramp fee, they gave me no option to move the
>> airplane and go. I didn't ask to be parked.
>>
>> I was picking up the instructor.
>
> The situation you describe is not unique. I've seen other FBOs that do
> it. I don't like it any better than you do and I think it's CS, but I
> understand why they do it. Most airports are great to deal with and never
> charge any fees, but you can't expect those courtesies everywhere.
>
> FBO's like that don't really care if you are asking for the parking
> service or not. They assume a certain amount of liability for your
> aircraft and othe others that are on the ramp. That's why they do it.
>
> There are airports that don't advertize a landing fee in the A/FD (or
> anywhere else) also, but if you land there, they will hand you a bill.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Clyde Woempner" > wrote

> It's only $20.00, what's the big deal.

Oh, you won't mind putting a check for $20 in the mail, and sending it to
him, would you?

It's only $20, after all.

The point is that he was made to pay, with no option to not pay _even if he
left_ without getting ANY service.
--
Jim in NC

[Mike[_22_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
...
> On Aug 28, 4:57 pm, "Mike" > wrote:
>
> > I prefer the independent FBOs to the big chains like Millionair and
> > Signature. Usually their service is good, but sometimes they treat you
> > like
> > a leper if you are a Avgas burner. They will quite often park you in the
> > remotest corner of their ramp to make room for the corporate guys and
> > I've
> > had them refuse the courtesy car because they only had one available and
> > it
> > was "reserved".
>
> I've never understood why people care where their plane is. You pull
> up to the front of the FBO, they unload your plane into your rental
> car. Then when you leave the hotel to go back to the airport you call
> the FBO to stage your airplane. They could store the plane in Iran for
> all I care, the point is its sitting in front of the FBO when I'm
> ready for it.

I could care less if they want to stage my plane somewhere else. My
complaint is they will send a parking jockey and specifically park you in
the back 40 as soon as you taxi up, just so they can save the space up front
in case a Citation or G5 pulls up. Then I'm left carrying my bags clear
across the ramp as some larger airports with air carrier operations won't
let you drive a rental car out on the ramp to unload.

> I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
> real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
> from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
> the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
> pick up my car.

I've had that experience also, but that's really a function of the rental
car company itself and not the FBO. I've had the same experience with
Signature. I've been to other FBOs where the rental car company will
actually just leave one or two of their cars at the airport and allow the
FBO to fill out the contract. So it really just depends on how agressive
those rental car companies are in seeking out GA business.

As far as courtesy cars go, I use them all the time when I'm just staying
long enough to go get lunch. A rental car isn't practical for that.

> At the big FBO from shut down to driving down the freeway is only
> about 15 minutes vs. almost an hour at the little FBOs. When flying
> with the family the service of fueling and staging is important. Long
> ago I figured out that family flying works best when the trip isn't
> about the airplane or hanging around the airport, its about going
> somewhere cool.

That's just a function of location and can very easily work the other way
around if the big airport is downtown and there's a smaller one closer to
where you want to go.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Aug 31, 5:19*am, "Mike" > wrote:

> > I never use the courtesy car, I just book a rental. Rental cars is the
> > real reason that big FBOs rule. The little FBOs get crappy service
> > from the car rental companies. Several times when I tried a small FBO
> > the rental car guys show up and try to drive me to another airport to
> > pick up my car.
>
> I've *had that experience also, but that's really a function of the rental
> car company itself and not the FBO. *I've had the same experience with
> Signature. *I've been to other FBOs where the rental car company will
> actually just leave one or two of their cars at the airport and allow the
> FBO to fill out the contract. *So it really just depends on how agressive
> those rental car companies are in seeking out GA business.

Yes, it can happen at any FBO but the point is that if the car is
forgotten it can be had pretty quick when you are at the big int'l
airport. At the GA airport they have to drive a car out from the Int'l
airport. I just want to be close to where the cars are since I've had
problems in the past.

-robert