USAF(?) unit patch ID

[Allen Thomson]

Anybody know what this is or was?

http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg

[George Z. Bush]

"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
> Anybody know what this is or was?
>
> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg

Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever its origins, they
are more than likely NOT American.

George Z.

[Ed Rasimus]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
> wrote:

>
>"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
>> Anybody know what this is or was?
>>
>> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg
>
>Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever its origins, they
>are more than likely NOT American.
>
>George Z.
>
I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
in U-2.

Any Latin linquists in the house?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[John]

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
>
> >> Anybody know what this is or was?
> >>
> >> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg
> >
> >
> I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
> the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
> Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
> it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
> in U-2.
>
> Any Latin linquists in the house?
>
> Ed Rasimus

Been a lot of years since I took Latin, but very roughly.

Late at Night / De Multa Nocte

Don't Ask / Noli Rogare

Classis Caece / Fleet ????

[ArVa]

"John" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
> >
> > >> Anybody know what this is or was?
> > >>
> > >> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
> > the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
> > Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
> > it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
> > in U-2.
> >
> > Any Latin linquists in the house?
> >
> > Ed Rasimus
>
> Been a lot of years since I took Latin, but very roughly.
>
> Late at Night / De Multa Nocte
>
> Don't Ask / Noli Rogare
>
> Classis Caece / Fleet ????
>


I'd translate "Caece" with "Blind". For the rest, I've made the same
translation.

It might well be the Area 51/Dry Groom lake's unit patch rather than some
Davis Monthan AFB unit's one. Roughly the same location on the map and
obviously very mysterious... :-)

ArVa

[Eystein Roll Aarseth]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:58:55 -0600, Ed Rasimus
> wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:32:09 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
>> om...
>>> Anybody know what this is or was?
>>>
>>> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg
>>
>> Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever its
>> origins, they
>> are more than likely NOT American.
>>
> I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
> the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
> Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
> it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
> in U-2.
>
> Any Latin linquists in the house?

Well, I'm certainly not a latin linguist, but a web search helped
a bit: I found <URL:http://www.ancts.org/resources/chadwick/>

CLASSIS -is, f. 1 A group of persons or things sharing a common
attribute, class:

CAECE, adv. Blindly

MULCTA -ae, f. also MULTA. A monetary penalty, fine

NOCTU, adv. By night

No hits for "NOLI"

No hits for "ROGARE", but maybe it's a conjugation
of ROGATIO -onis, f. The act of asking, request

So, whatever it is, they come by night and take your money
without asking? Sounds like a recon/spec ops thing, yes.

EAa - waiting for some latin scholar to yell about stupid
amateurs.
--
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNK!

[Erik Von Erich]

(Allen Thomson) wrote in message >...
> Anybody know what this is or was?
>
> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg


You could try submitting it to the following website that attempts to
identify unknown USAF patches or you could plow through their archives
and see if it's there.


http://www.usafpatches.com/unknown.shtml

[Allen Thomson]

"Eystein Roll Aarseth" > wrote \

> Well, I'm certainly not a latin linguist, but a web search helped
> a bit: I found <URL:http://www.ancts.org/resources/chadwick/>

[Snip]

My last serious encounter with Latin was around the time Gagarin
was in orbit, but I've found another couple of possibilities
for the "Classis Caece" part:


From http://www.bible-history.com/latin/latin_c.html

caeco -are, to make blind or dark.

caecus -a -um: act., blind, not seeing; intellectually or
morally blind; uncertain, objectless; pass., unseen, hidden,
obscure, dark.

classis -is, f. a group as summoned, a division, class.
(1) one of the classes into which Servius Tullius divided the
Roman people.
(2) the armed forces, esp. the fleet.
(3) in gen., a class, group.


There is also one assertion in a Usenet discussion that,

"A classis means 'a call to arms'; The above (KLASIS) is
Doric of the Attic KLHSIS (the calling)"



So "a hidden call to arms" or "an unseen fleet" or both ???????
If so, it suggests some WWMCCS/GCCS-like function.

Note that the three little spooks have their mouths open,
as if they're calling out something. EEEWWWOOO, maybe. :-)

[raymond o'hara]

"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
> "Eystein Roll Aarseth" > wrote \
>
> > Well, I'm certainly not a latin linguist, but a web search helped
> > a bit: I found <URL:http://www.ancts.org/resources/chadwick/>
>
> [Snip]
>
> My last serious encounter with Latin was around the time Gagarin
> was in orbit, but I've found another couple of possibilities
> for the "Classis Caece" part:
>
>
> From http://www.bible-history.com/latin/latin_c.html
>
> caeco -are, to make blind or dark.
>
> caecus -a -um: act., blind, not seeing; intellectually or
> morally blind; uncertain, objectless; pass., unseen, hidden,
> obscure, dark.
>
> classis -is, f. a group as summoned, a division, class.
> (1) one of the classes into which Servius Tullius divided the
> Roman people.
> (2) the armed forces, esp. the fleet.
> (3) in gen., a class, group.
>
>
> There is also one assertion in a Usenet discussion that,
>
> "A classis means 'a call to arms'; The above (KLASIS) is
> Doric of the Attic KLHSIS (the calling)"
>
>
>
> So "a hidden call to arms" or "an unseen fleet" or both ???????
> If so, it suggests some WWMCCS/GCCS-like function.
>
> Note that the three little spooks have their mouths open,
> as if they're calling out something. EEEWWWOOO, maybe. :-)


maybe it's a stleath bomber/ fighter squadron patch

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:58:55 -0600, Ed Rasimus
> wrote:

> I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
> the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
> Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
> it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
> in U-2.

How about Holloman, not Davis-Monthan? There are F-117s at Holloman.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Allen Thomson]

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> "George Z. Bush" wrote:

> > Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
> > its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.

> I thought that initially as well,

BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?

(I have no idea where the thing came from, but can't see
anything that looks particularly non-USian.)

[Leadfoot]

"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> > "George Z. Bush" wrote:
>
> > > Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
> > > its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.
>
> > I thought that initially as well,
>
> BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
> about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?

The three faces bear an amazing resemblence to Hitler?

>
> (I have no idea where the thing came from, but can't see
> anything that looks particularly non-USian.)

[George]

Mary Shafer > wrote in message >...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:58:55 -0600, Ed Rasimus
> > wrote:
>
> > I thought that initially as well, but the US map shows a star at about
> > the location of Davis-Monthan. I'm betting, since the only part of the
> > Latin I can decipher has something to do with a lot of nights, that
> > it's either a special ops patch or maybe a strategic recce patch, as
> > in U-2.
>
> How about Holloman, not Davis-Monthan? There are F-117s at Holloman.
>
> Mary

There's Air Force Spec Ops at Davis Monthan.

[George Z. Bush]

"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>
> > "George Z. Bush" wrote:
>
> > > Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
> > > its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.
>
> > I thought that initially as well,
>
> BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
> about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?

Let's turn the thing around. What is there about the patch that establishes its
American provenance? Whatever the language in use is, it doesn't even appear to
be English! Under those circumstances, why not doubt its origins?

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what does it for me.

George Z.
>
> (I have no idea where the thing came from, but can't see
> anything that looks particularly non-USian.)

[Mike Williamson]

George wrote:
> Mary Shafer > wrote in message >...
>>
>>How about Holloman, not Davis-Monthan? There are F-117s at Holloman.
>>
>>Mary
>
>
> There's Air Force Spec Ops at Davis Monthan.

Well, there are the rescue squadrons here, but I don't recall ever
seeing that patch here. On another note, Air Force unit patches
are typically (almost universally, as far as I have seen) round,
rather than triangular. The AZ National Guard units have a non-round
patch, but that is in the shape of the State of Arizona.

Mike Williamson
EC-130H Compass Call

[ArVa]

"Allen Thomson" > a écrit dans le message de
om...
> Anybody know what this is or was?
>
> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg


You might try this impressive site : http://www.usafpatches.com, but you'd
better brew a gallon of coffee first as there are literally thousands of
patches (some of them, expecially the "morale" ones, are gems). The guy's
"want list" is still pretty long though, so maybe you should also ask him.

ArVa

[Iain Rae]

George Z. Bush wrote:
> "Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "George Z. Bush" wrote:
>>
>>>>Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
>>>>its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.
>>
>>>I thought that initially as well,
>>
>>BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
>>about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?
>
>
> Let's turn the thing around. What is there about the patch that establishes its
> American provenance?

The map is centred on North/Central america so it's not likely to be
European, African or Asian. There also looks to be a star on the map
which my (albeit limited) geography would place in the US.

> Whatever the language in use is, it doesn't even appear to
> be English!

You'd be betting on Latin America then ;)?

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

"George Z. Bush" wrote:
>
> "Allen Thomson" > wrote:

> > BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
> > about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?
>
> Let's turn the thing around. What is there about the patch that
> establishes its American provenance? Whatever the language in use
> is, it doesn't even appear to be English! Under those
> circumstances, why not doubt its origins?

I've never been in a USAF wing with an emblem that didn't
display the wing motto in Latin. I've seen one or two
historical unit patches that had the motto in French
- but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
....NEVER in English.

> Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what does it for me.
>
> George Z.
> >
> > (I have no idea where the thing came from, but can't see
> > anything that looks particularly non-USian.)

[John Hairell]

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:03:08 -0400, "George Z. Bush"
> wrote:

>
>"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...
>> Ed Rasimus wrote:
>>
>> > "George Z. Bush" wrote:
>>
>> > > Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
>> > > its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.
>>
>> > I thought that initially as well,
>>
>> BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
>> about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?
>
>Let's turn the thing around. What is there about the patch that establishes its
>American provenance? Whatever the language in use is, it doesn't even appear to
>be English! Under those circumstances, why not doubt its origins?
>
>Of course, I could be wrong, but that's what does it for me.
>

The patch appears to be "merrowed" i.e. it has a stitched edging,
which is more common to U.S.-made patches than cheaper Asian-made
patches. That and its North American connotations hint that it MAY
have been produced in the U.S. The design may also be
computer-generated and stitched, which makes it more likely to have
been produced in the U.S. or Europe. The language has nothing to do
with it - U.S. military unit mottos that I've seen have included
Latin, Greek, French, English, Hawaiian, and even Russian, and that's
just the official mottos.

John Hairell

[Tex Houston]

"Dweezil Dwarftosser" > wrote in message
...
> I've never been in a USAF wing with an emblem that didn't
> display the wing motto in Latin. I've seen one or two
> historical unit patches that had the motto in French
> - but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
> ...NEVER in English.
>
Perhaps you haven't been in one but they exist. I've been in two at least,
44SMW motto was "Aggressor Beware" and I was in the 355th in the random
sampling below.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0355wg.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0004wg.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0036abw.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0045sw.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0052fw.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0051fw.php

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0056fw.php

Regards,

Tex Houston

[Joe Osman]

"ArVa" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Allen Thomson" > a écrit dans le message de
> om...
> > Anybody know what this is or was?
> >
> > http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg
>
>
> You might try this impressive site : http://www.usafpatches.com, but you'd
> better brew a gallon of coffee first as there are literally thousands of
> patches (some of them, expecially the "morale" ones, are gems). The guy's
> "want list" is still pretty long though, so maybe you should also ask him.
>
> ArVa
>
>
Save your time. It's the patch of the Vatican's Joint Jesuit/Benedictine
Strike Force out of the Holy Trinity Monastery in St. David, Arizona.

Joe




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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[Yeff]

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:15:34 -0400, Joe Osman wrote:

> Save your time. It's the patch of the Vatican's Joint Jesuit/Benedictine
> Strike Force out of the Holy Trinity Monastery in St. David, Arizona.

And since you blabbed it all over Usenet they'll have to kill you.

-Jeff B. (putting the shiny side out and sipping non-fluoridated water)
yeff at erols dot com

[Allen Thomson]

"ArVa" > wrote

> You might try this impressive site : http://www.usafpatches.com,

Done, at the suggestion of someone upthread. Patch submitted for ID
or posting.

> but you'd better brew a gallon of coffee first as there are literally
> thousands of > patches (some of them, expecially the "morale" ones, are
> gems).

I spent most of yesterday morning enjoying the site. A couple of
patches seem to have escaped from BYEMAN channels, somewhat to my
surprise. (An NRO launch patch showing a DRAGON holding a CRYSTAL
-- what could that ever be?)

[ZZBunker]

"George Z. Bush" > wrote in message >...
> "Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Ed Rasimus wrote:
> >
> > > "George Z. Bush" wrote:
>
> > > > Just as a WAG, I think it's probably safe to say that whatever
> > > > its origins, they are more than likely NOT American.
>
> > > I thought that initially as well,
> >
> > BTW, just out of curiosity, honest question, what is there
> > about the patch that calls into doubt its American provenance?
>
> Let's turn the thing around. What is there about the patch that establishes its
> American provenance? Whatever the language in use is, it doesn't even appear to
> be English!

Nothing. Latin is neither an American, British, nor
Air Force provenance. It's an army provenance.

[Mary Shafer]

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:07:40 GMT, Mike Williamson
> wrote:

> George wrote:
> > Mary Shafer > wrote in message >...
> >>
> >>How about Holloman, not Davis-Monthan? There are F-117s at Holloman.
> >>
> >>Mary
> >
> >
> > There's Air Force Spec Ops at Davis Monthan.
>
> Well, there are the rescue squadrons here, but I don't recall ever
> seeing that patch here. On another note, Air Force unit patches
> are typically (almost universally, as far as I have seen) round,
> rather than triangular. The AZ National Guard units have a non-round
> patch, but that is in the shape of the State of Arizona.

I think that's because round patches are cheaper. I used to be on the
Dryden Exchange Committee, which ran our gift shop, and that was
something we suggested to patch designers to keep costs down.

I have a translation from rec.org.sca now. The "de multe nocte noli
rogare" is, approximately, "Don't ask what we do late at night" and
"classis caece" is "invisible or secret military group or fleet",
which may be "stealth squadron".

So I'm going with the 49th at Holloman AFB.

Mary

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:04:46 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
> wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Apr 2004 17:05:14 -0400 Leigh >
> wrote in <news:aSjcc.17163$of.7246@lakeread03> in
> rec.org.sca:
>
> > Mary Shafer wrote:
>
> >> There's a military patch that has many people in another newsgroup I
> >> frequent quite curious. The standard of Latin scholarship is quite
> >> low there, so I thought I ask here. You can see the patch at
> >> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg.
>
> >> Embroidered on the border of the black triangular patch is
> >> CLASSIS CAECE (top point) DE MULTE NOCTE (bottom left)
> >> NOLI ROGARE (bottom right), all readable in the usual orientation.
> >> The phrases are separated by three ghosts or spooks, on the order of
> >> the bullies in Casper, The center of the patch has a globe showing
> >> the Americas with a star at about Holloman AFB (or any of a number of
> >> other bases).
>
> >> The combination of ghosts or spooks, the reference to "late at night"
> >> (multe nocte), and the star have led me to believe that this patch is
> >> that of some component of the 49th Air Wing, which flies the F-117 at
> >> night from Holloman. I add this information purely as a guess, but
> >> thought it might be helpful.
>
> The spooks and CLASSIS CAECE 'invisible fleet' pretty
> clearly mark it as the badge of some intelligence-oriented
> unit, I should think.
>
> >> I should mention that this may not be the best Latin in the world.
>
> > well, I'm not a latin scholar or anything (and the one online translation
> > website that did Latin<> English seems to have changed it's policy, *Sigh*),
> > but...
>
> > Looking at the patch I think you have to take DE MULTE NOCTE + NOLI ROGARE
> > as one unit which would be roughly:
> > 'do not ask (what we do) in the course of/during many nights'
>
> I think rather 'Do not ask (what we do) late at night'.
>
> > Best I could get out of CLASSIS CAECE was 'a hidden group of the military'
> > ('Classis' being in one sense either 'group' or 'the armed forces' generally)
>
> > Mind you most of the words ending in 'e' should probably be ending in 'ae'
> > (at least when looking at the roots of the words that was the closest, at
> > least according to the interactive online latin dictionary I was looking
> > through).
>
> Yes: where Classical Latin has <ae>, medieval Latin often
> has just <e>, especially in inflexional endings.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Allen Thomson]

"Joe Osman" > wrote

> Save your time. It's the patch of the Vatican's Joint Jesuit/Benedictine
> Strike Force out of the Holy Trinity Monastery in St. David, Arizona.

Heh. I grew up not far from St. David, we'd pass through it driving
to Tucson. A nice little place it was at the time (1950s-1960s).
Sometime around 1960 a bunch of folks set up an enclave near there
to await the Second Coming. Probably just a cover for the VJJBSF/HTM.

Of course, around the same time, another group was awaiting the S.C.
down on the border close to Ft. Huachuca. Those things were hard
to sort out.

[Fred J. McCall]

Mary Shafer > wrote:

:> Well, there are the rescue squadrons here, but I don't recall ever
:> seeing that patch here. On another note, Air Force unit patches
:> are typically (almost universally, as far as I have seen) round,
:> rather than triangular. The AZ National Guard units have a non-round
:> patch, but that is in the shape of the State of Arizona.
:
:I think that's because round patches are cheaper. I used to be on the
:Dryden Exchange Committee, which ran our gift shop, and that was
:something we suggested to patch designers to keep costs down.
:
:I have a translation from rec.org.sca now. The "de multe nocte noli
:rogare" is, approximately, "Don't ask what we do late at night" and
:"classis caece" is "invisible or secret military group or fleet",
:which may be "stealth squadron".
:
:So I'm going with the 49th at Holloman AFB.

Probably right. I never paid attention to what was on it, but I could
swear that at least one F-117 squadron has the triangular patches. I
happened to spend some time sitting in a large room where there were
also some green bags from a stealth squadron.

The Navy also uses at least some triangular patches, by the way. I
used to wear one.

--
"This is a war of the unknown warriors; but let all strive
without failing in faith or in duty...."

-- Winston Churchill

[Larry]

> The Navy also uses at least some triangular patches, by the way. I
> used to wear one.
Yes Fred, Navy "Wing" patches are triangular.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
Disabled Combat Veteran
USN 'Retired'




"Fred J. McCall" > wrote in message
...
> Mary Shafer > wrote:
>
> :> Well, there are the rescue squadrons here, but I don't recall ever
> :> seeing that patch here. On another note, Air Force unit patches
> :> are typically (almost universally, as far as I have seen) round,
> :> rather than triangular. The AZ National Guard units have a non-round
> :> patch, but that is in the shape of the State of Arizona.
> :
> :I think that's because round patches are cheaper. I used to be on the
> :Dryden Exchange Committee, which ran our gift shop, and that was
> :something we suggested to patch designers to keep costs down.
> :
> :I have a translation from rec.org.sca now. The "de multe nocte noli
> :rogare" is, approximately, "Don't ask what we do late at night" and
> :"classis caece" is "invisible or secret military group or fleet",
> :which may be "stealth squadron".
> :
> :So I'm going with the 49th at Holloman AFB.
>
> Probably right. I never paid attention to what was on it, but I could
> swear that at least one F-117 squadron has the triangular patches. I
> happened to spend some time sitting in a large room where there were
> also some green bags from a stealth squadron.
>
> The Navy also uses at least some triangular patches, by the way. I
> used to wear one.
>
> --
> "This is a war of the unknown warriors; but let all strive
> without failing in faith or in duty...."
>
> -- Winston Churchill

[Mike Williamson]

Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:


> I've never been in a USAF wing with an emblem that didn't
> display the wing motto in Latin. I've seen one or two
> historical unit patches that had the motto in French
> - but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
> ....NEVER in English.

Well, I wish I could say the same, but the 355th Wing
at DM has their motto in English-- "Our Might Always,"
which might actually sound decent in Latin, but is
absolutely awful sitting there in English on the
patch...

Mike

[Allen Thomson]

Mary Shafer > wrote

>
> So I'm going with the 49th at Holloman AFB.
>

I checked with the 49th this morning and they responded with
admirable speed, saying,


From:
To: "Allen Thomson" >
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: Request for help with patch identification

> Mr. Thomson,

> I forwarded the patch the the 49th FW history office.
> They researched it and could not find it being associated
> with the 49th FW at any time.

> Many thanks,
> XXXX
> NCOIC, 49 FW / Public Affairs

(I've XXXXed out the name of the person who responded.)

[Allen Thomson]

Fred J. McCall > wrote

> Probably right. I never paid attention to what was on it, but I could
> swear that at least one F-117 squadron has the triangular patches.

http://www.thebattlezone.com/airforce/f-117.html
http://www.av8rstuff.com/f117pg1.html
http://www.av8rstuff.com/f117pg2.html
http://www.pinex.ch/patches/usaf/f117.htm

Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
were tending toward triangularity.

[miso]

FWIW, I asked someone who knew Latin in the dark ages (aka high
school), and got the translation:

"Don't ask the Marines to be blind late at
night."


(Allen Thomson) wrote in message >...
> Anybody know what this is or was?
>
> http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg

[Brian Sharrock]

"Allen Thomson" > wrote in message
om...

snip

> Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
> were tending toward triangularity.

Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
San Francisco to legalise ... :)

--

Brian

[Joe Osman]

"miso" > wrote in message
om...
> FWIW, I asked someone who knew Latin in the dark ages (aka high
> school), and got the translation:
>
> "Don't ask the Marines to be blind late at
> night."
>
>
> (Allen Thomson) wrote in message
>...
> > Anybody know what this is or was?
> >
> > http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg

Marines is "milites classiarii"-soldiers of the fleet. No "classis"
involved.

Joe




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Allen Thomson]

"Brian Sharrock" > wrote

> > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
> > were tending toward triangularity.
>
> Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
> San Francisco to legalise ... :)


Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
are considered to be hopelessly square.

[Prof. Vincent Brannigan]

Allen Thomson wrote:

> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
>
> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
> > > were tending toward triangularity.
> >
> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
>
> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
> are considered to be hopelessly square.

if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP

Vince

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Prof. Vincent Brannigan" > writes:
>
>
> Allen Thomson wrote:
>
>> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
>>
>> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
>> > > were tending toward triangularity.
>> >
>> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
>> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
>>
>> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
>> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
>> are considered to be hopelessly square.
>
> if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
> then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP

Not before I ate. And would I have to be Dressed to the Nines?

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Lance Kopplin]

"Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Prof. Vincent Brannigan" > writes:
> >
> >
> > Allen Thomson wrote:
> >
> >> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
> >>
> >> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
> >> > > were tending toward triangularity.
> >> >
> >> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
> >> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
> >>
> >> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
> >> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
> >> are considered to be hopelessly square.
> >
> > if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
> > then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP
>
> Not before I ate. And would I have to be Dressed to the Nines?

Why does an octo-pus have ten-tacles?

>
> --
> Pete Stickney
> A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
> bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[[email protected]]

(Peter Stickney) wrote:

>In article >,
> "Prof. Vincent Brannigan" > writes:
>>
>>
>> Allen Thomson wrote:
>>
>>> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
>>>
>>> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
>>> > > were tending toward triangularity.
>>> >
>>> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
>>> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
>>>
>>> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
>>> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
>>> are considered to be hopelessly square.
>>
>> if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
>> then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP
>
>Not before I ate. And would I have to be Dressed to the Nines?

Nope Pete, you'd need to be a perfect ten (replete with tan two)
--

-Gord.

[Fred J. McCall]

"Lance Kopplin" > wrote:

:
:"Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
...
:> In article >,
:> "Prof. Vincent Brannigan" > writes:
:> >
:> >
:> > Allen Thomson wrote:
:> >
:> >> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
:> >>
:> >> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
:> >> > > were tending toward triangularity.
:> >> >
:> >> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
:> >> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
:> >>
:> >> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
:> >> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
:> >> are considered to be hopelessly square.
:> >
:> > if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
:> > then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP
:>
:> Not before I ate. And would I have to be Dressed to the Nines?
:
:Why does an octo-pus have ten-tacles?

And why are those bakers dozin'?

[Tarver Engineering]

"Gord Beaman" > wrote in message
...
> (Peter Stickney) wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "Prof. Vincent Brannigan" > writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> Allen Thomson wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Brian Sharrock" > wrote
> >>>
> >>> > > Etc. I spotted one that was really triangular and a couple that
> >>> > > were tending toward triangularity.
> >>> >
> >>> > Triangularity? Is that another life-style/choice for
> >>> > San Francisco to legalise ... :)
> >>>
> >>> Heh. I should have read that twice before posting it. Anyway,
> >>> I suspect that in San Francisco couples tending toward triangularity
> >>> are considered to be hopelessly square.
> >>
> >> if you take this any further the Pentagon will put a hex on you.
> >> then you will be be at 6s and sevens before being told to STOP
> >
> >Not before I ate. And would I have to be Dressed to the Nines?
>
> Nope Pete, you'd need to be a perfect ten (replete with tan two)

Perhaps some of that spray on tan Kerry is wearing?

[BUFDRVR]

>I've seen one or two
>historical unit patches that had the motto in French
>- but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
>...NEVER in English.

Even units whose history began in France may display their motto in Latin. The
2nd Bomb Wings origins begin in France, yet both its patches had the motto in
Latin. Morto et Destructo - a very cool yet un-PC Death and Destruction and
Liberatus Defensmus (not sure about spelling there) - Defenders of
Liberty(boring!).


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[B2431]

>From: (BUFDRVR)
>Date: 4/13/2004 6:18 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>I've seen one or two
>>historical unit patches that had the motto in French
>>- but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
>>...NEVER in English.
>
>Even units whose history began in France may display their motto in Latin.
>The
>2nd Bomb Wings origins begin in France, yet both its patches had the motto in
>Latin. Morto et Destructo - a very cool yet un-PC Death and Destruction and
>Liberatus Defensmus (not sure about spelling there) - Defenders of
>Liberty(boring!).
>
>
>BUFDRVR


Hey, it's right up there with 'Defensor Pacis" (defenders of peace) on the 4500
ABW T-39s at Langley AFB in the 1970s.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[BUFDRVR]

>Hey, it's right up there with 'Defensor Pacis" (defenders of peace) on the
>4500
>ABW T-39s at Langley AFB in the 1970s.

The first USAF squadron I was in was the 740th Strategic Missile Squadron of
the 91st Strategic Missile Wing. The squadrons motto was "Custodius Pacis"
;custodians of peace, but if you look in the dictionary you'll also note for
custodian the definition most associated with the word; janitor. We used to
call ourselves the peace janitors.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Ed Rasimus]

On 14 Apr 2004 12:02:19 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>Hey, it's right up there with 'Defensor Pacis" (defenders of peace) on the
>>4500
>>ABW T-39s at Langley AFB in the 1970s.
>
>The first USAF squadron I was in was the 740th Strategic Missile Squadron of
>the 91st Strategic Missile Wing. The squadrons motto was "Custodius Pacis"
>;custodians of peace, but if you look in the dictionary you'll also note for
>custodian the definition most associated with the word; janitor. We used to
>call ourselves the peace janitors.
>
>
>BUFDRVR
>
>"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
>everyone on Bear Creek"

Don't know that I ever, in 23 years, served in a unit with a foreign
language motto on the patch. Most simply had the unit number or the
MAJCOM name---lemme see:

3526 Pilot Training Sqdn--no motto
Muletrain
Hacker (no mottos on flight patches)
4526 Combat Crew Training Sqdn--no motto
388th TFW (oops---Libertas Vel Mors)
421st TFS---"Ready, Willing, Able"
3526 Pilot Training Squadron--no motto
3525 Student Training Squadron (Academics)--"Who Dat?"
311 Combat Crew Training Squadron--no motto
388th TFW (still in Latin--Libertas Vel Mors)
469th TFS ---"World's Finest"
34th TFS ---no motto
401st TFS --- no motto
613 TFS --- no motto
USAFE -- no motto
479th TTW --- (oops ---Protectores Libertatis)
435 TFTS --- no motto
602 TACW --- no motto

For a wealth of patches take a look at
http://www.usafpatches.com/gallery.shtml

Easy organization by unit size (sqdn, group, wing) and numbers.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[John Hairell]

On 13 Apr 2004 23:18:14 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>I've seen one or two
>>historical unit patches that had the motto in French
>>- but these units likely had originated there in WW I.
>>...NEVER in English.
>
>Even units whose history began in France may display their motto in Latin. The
>2nd Bomb Wings origins begin in France, yet both its patches had the motto in
>Latin. Morto et Destructo - a very cool yet un-PC Death and Destruction and
>Liberatus Defensmus (not sure about spelling there) - Defenders of
>Liberty(boring!).
>
>

USAF units that have a provenance running back to the Army Air Corps
or the even earlier Air Service had unit crests and heraldry designed
to Army standards by Army historical authorities (The Army Institute
of Heraldry - TIOH - and predeccessor outfits in the QMC), and those
may have French or Latin mottos, or they may be in another language.
Just because a unit served in France doesn't mean it had to have a
French motto, and vice versa. When the USAF was set up as a separate
service many aviation units took their Army-designed heraldry with
them and some of that has passed down to the present day.

There are Army units that have French mottos that have never had
anything in their histories to do with France, and there are Army
units that served in France that have Latin or English mottos. The
specific language of the motto doesn't neccessarily have anything to
do with a unit's history. The devices/symbology on the heraldic
shield is more telling of a unit's history than the motto.

The USAF until recently has been more tolerant of unauthorized patches
or heraldic devices than the Army. The Army has always had rigid
rules for authorized unit insignia and heraldry, and insignia approval
was centralized. The USAF now has a centralized heraldry office which
is applying more rigid rules for approving insignia.

John Hairell

[Mary Shafer]

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:43:50 -0400, John Hairell >
wrote:

> USAF units that have a provenance running back to the Army Air Corps
> or the even earlier Air Service had unit crests and heraldry designed
> to Army standards by Army historical authorities (The Army Institute
> of Heraldry - TIOH - and predeccessor outfits in the QMC), and those
> may have French or Latin mottos, or they may be in another language.

Nothing to do with mottos, but these are the people who designed the
old NASA "meatball" logo, with inputs from the Agency. The "worm"
logo was an expensive design by a fancy company and the Agency
returned to the old logo by popular request about a decade after the
"worm" logo was introduced.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

[Tex Houston]

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> Don't know that I ever, in 23 years, served in a unit with a foreign
> language motto on the patch. Most simply had the unit number or the
> MAJCOM name---lemme see:
>
> 3526 Pilot Training Sqdn--no motto
> Muletrain
> Hacker (no mottos on flight patches)
> 4526 Combat Crew Training Sqdn--no motto
> 388th TFW (oops---Libertas Vel Mors)
> 421st TFS---"Ready, Willing, Able"
> 3526 Pilot Training Squadron--no motto
> 3525 Student Training Squadron (Academics)--"Who Dat?"
> 311 Combat Crew Training Squadron--no motto
> 388th TFW (still in Latin--Libertas Vel Mors)
> 469th TFS ---"World's Finest"
> 34th TFS ---no motto
> 401st TFS --- no motto
> 613 TFS --- no motto
> USAFE -- no motto
> 479th TTW --- (oops ---Protectores Libertatis)
> 435 TFTS --- no motto
> 602 TACW --- no motto

> Ed Rasimus


Ed,

Squadron patches seldom contain the foreign language mottos, nor do NAFs or
Commands. Seems to be a wing style but as I told John the other day when he
said he had never seen one without the foreign language quite a few contain
English currently.

Examples of Latin...(except 5th)

!st Fighter Wing
2nd Bomb Wing
3rd Wing
5th Bomb Wing
7th Wing
8th Fighter Wing

Six of the first seven I checked. A fairly complete list can be found at...

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_index.php

Regards,

Tex

[SteveM8597]

The 391st TFS of the 475th TFW at Misawa Japan in 1970 had a patch that said
Fortuna Audentes Juvat - Fortune Favors the Bold. The 301st patch was a
trialgular shield and the motto was on a rocker. The wing and squadron was
deactivated and many of the personnel assigned to Kunsan AB Korea first to the
3rd TFW later redesignated 8th TFW when that unit left SEA. We, the 391st,
became the 80th Headhunters. Guys began to tear the old patch off and often
the word Juvat on the rocker would reman attached. It begane first an informal
part of the flight suit and later a formal patch. The suqadron members became
Juvats as they are to this day though I doubt if many know the origination or
even the meaning of the logo.


>Squadron patches seldom contain the foreign language mottos, nor do NAFs or
>Commands. Seems to be a wing style but as I told John the other day when he
>said he had never seen one without the foreign language quite a few contain
>English currently.
>
>Examples of Latin...(except 5th)
>

[BUFDRVR]

>Just because a unit served in France doesn't mean it had to have a
>French motto, and vice versa.

Yes and no. The 2nd Bomb wing is one of the "original" Army Air Corps flying
wings, its emblem is displayed with 7 (I think its 7 others, maybe 8?) other
"original" Army Air Corps wings on the Air Force corridor in the Pentagon. All
8 "original" units have something on their emblem that ties them to France. The
2nd Bomb wing has two Flor de Leis (spelling...help...) and at least one other
unit has its motto in French.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[ArVa]

"BUFDRVR" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> 2nd Bomb wing has two Flor de Leis (spelling...help...) and at least one
other

"Fleurs de lys"


ArVa

[BUFDRVR]

>> 2nd Bomb wing has two Flor de Leis (spelling...help...) and at least one
>other
>
>"Fleurs de lys"

Thank you.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[John Hairell]

On 15 Apr 2004 12:10:39 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>Just because a unit served in France doesn't mean it had to have a
>>French motto, and vice versa.
>
>Yes and no. The 2nd Bomb wing is one of the "original" Army Air Corps flying
>wings, its emblem is displayed with 7 (I think its 7 others, maybe 8?) other
>"original" Army Air Corps wings on the Air Force corridor in the Pentagon. All
>8 "original" units have something on their emblem that ties them to France. The
>2nd Bomb wing has two Flor de Leis (spelling...help...)

I meant not specific to AAC but to the Army as a whole.

Quibble: the authorized 2nd Bomb Wing symbol has only ONE
fleur-de-lys.

[rest snipped]

John Hairell

[BUFDRVR]

>Quibble: the authorized 2nd Bomb Wing symbol has only ONE
>fleur-de-lys.

Hmmm, I can't find one at the moment, and I stopped wearing one after
graduating from Weapons School in DEC 00, but I thought there were two???


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Tex Houston]

"BUFDRVR" > wrote in message
...
> >Quibble: the authorized 2nd Bomb Wing symbol has only ONE
> >fleur-de-lys.
>
> Hmmm, I can't find one at the moment, and I stopped wearing one after
> graduating from Weapons School in DEC 00, but I thought there were two???
>
>
> BUFDRVR
>
> "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
> everyone on Bear Creek"

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0002bw.php

Tex

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

Tex Houston wrote:
>
> "BUFDRVR" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Quibble: the authorized 2nd Bomb Wing symbol has only ONE
> > >fleur-de-lys.
> >
> > Hmmm, I can't find one at the moment, and I stopped wearing one after
> > graduating from Weapons School in DEC 00, but I thought there were two???

> http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0002bw.php

It seems like the AF emblem (re)designers are changing a
lot of stuff that's been around, unchanged for for almost
90 years.
The 43rd TFS, for example, my first real squadron out of
tech school. Ops had old photos on the walls of WW I
planes sporting almost exactly the same design I wore.
(Almost exactly, because the squadron designation had
changed over the years: Pursuit/Tactical Fighter/just
plain Fighter...)
The only thing the current 43rd emblem has in common with
history is that it includes a (skinnier) bumblebee wearing
boxing gloves. The emblem outline is today some avant-garde
lazy "S" shape.

[BUFDRVR]

>http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0002bw.php
>
>Tex
>

Thanks Tex. Now the big question. How in God's name do you wear something on
your left sleeve 5-6 days a week for 4+ years and find yourself unable to
accurately describe it?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Andrew Chaplin]

BUFDRVR wrote:
>
> Even units whose history began in France may display their motto in Latin. The
> 2nd Bomb Wings origins begin in France, yet both its patches had the motto in
> Latin. Morto et Destructo - a very cool yet un-PC Death and Destruction and
> Liberatus Defensmus (not sure about spelling there) - Defenders of
> Liberty(boring!).

That should be something along the lines of "Libertas Defensores" for
the latter. "Death and Destruction" would be "Mors et Eversio".
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[B2431]

>From: (BUFDRVR)
>Date: 4/15/2004 4:55 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0002bw.php
>>
>>Tex
>>
>
>Thanks Tex. Now the big question. How in God's name do you wear something on
>your left sleeve 5-6 days a week for 4+ years and find yourself unable to
>accurately describe it?
>
>
>BUFDRVR
>

Simple, you tend to tune it out after awhile and most people simply don't
notice. I used to wear a TAC patch with the sword in the wrong direction and no
one noticed. Right now I couldn't tell you which way its supposed to go without
looking it up.

There were several unauthorized SAC patches that were popular: mailed fist
making the one finger salute, holding a scrotum, marijuana leaves etc. I think
I may have seen one where "Strategic Air Command" was replaced by "SACumsized."

Over seas flight crew name tags were quite creative. I knew a Capt. Tomato at
Hahn AB whose name tag read "Rotten" where his name should have been, and that
was one of the few clean ones.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[BUFDRVR]

>That should be something along the lines of "Libertas Defensores" for
>the latter.

Actually the exact phrase on the patch is "Libertatem Defendimus" according to
the web site Tex put up, its means "Liberty We Defend".

> "Death and Destruction" would be "Mors et Eversio".

The original patch said "Mors et Destructio" which sounds like Death and
Destruction to me, but as you can see, I'm not Latin expert.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[John Hairell]

On 15 Apr 2004 21:55:47 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/rso/wings_groups_pages/0002bw.php
>>
>>Tex
>>
>
>Thanks Tex. Now the big question. How in God's name do you wear something on
>your left sleeve 5-6 days a week for 4+ years and find yourself unable to
>accurately describe it?
>


Too much time bouncing around in BUFFs will do that ;-)

John Hairell

[John Hairell]

On 16 Apr 2004 11:31:56 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

>>That should be something along the lines of "Libertas Defensores" for
>>the latter.
>
>Actually the exact phrase on the patch is "Libertatem Defendimus" according to
>the web site Tex put up, its means "Liberty We Defend".
>
>> "Death and Destruction" would be "Mors et Eversio".
>
>The original patch said "Mors et Destructio" which sounds like Death and
>Destruction to me, but as you can see, I'm not Latin expert.
>
>

Just because it's in Latin and is an approved motto doesn't mean it's
correct Latin. There's been some minor controversy over the years at
the Army Institute of Heraldry for instance that has to do with Latin
mottos. The designers may be up on their heraldry but may be a bit
rusty on their Latin.

With foreign-language mottos the meaning to native speakers may not be
exactly what the heraldry designers say it is. That's one of the
perils of using non-English mottos. At least in the Army several unit
crest designs had to be revoked after approval because it was later
determined there were language errors on them. Sometimes it's a
spello, and other times there's an unintentional or just plain wrong
meaning. You would hope most of these issues would be caught in the
design and approval process but that's not always the case.

John Hairell

[Dweezil Dwarftosser]

B2431 wrote:
>
> >From: (BUFDRVR)

> >Thanks Tex. Now the big question. How in God's name do you wear something on
> >your left sleeve 5-6 days a week for 4+ years and find yourself unable to
> >accurately describe it?
>
> Simple, you tend to tune it out after awhile and most people simply don't
> notice. I used to wear a TAC patch with the sword in the wrong direction and no
> one noticed. Right now I couldn't tell you which way its supposed to go without
> looking it up.

I had a trainer at MacDill who wore his "Travelling Air Circus"
patch (bearing a large screw in place of the sword) in a regular
rotation of his fatigue shirts. Who's going to stop and read a
patch when you see hundreds of copies every day?

[Paradisel]

Sorry to be bumping this but I came across it on a google search and figured I'd throw my 2 cents in.

There are two versions of this patch the one shown and a circular which I have and will try to scan and post it if anyone is interested. I believe the triangle was the more common of the two. On the circular version it has the Additional text:

Air Force Flight Test Center

The Ghost Squardron

IIRC The latin is We aren't Seen, We aren't Heard, We fly at night.

Though the Squadron is now defunct it is still classified which is why you can't get any info on it.

People familar with the patch may also remember

Penser Hors Limites Ops Group