KLN-90B

[[email protected]]

I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
database?

Thanks in advance,

Robin Hou

[Mike]

" > wrote in message
...
>I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
> database?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Robin Hou

Yes.

[comanche driver]

"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
> " > wrote in message
> ...
>>I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>> database?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Robin Hou
>
> Yes.
anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated data
base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.

[Mike]

"comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
> ...
>> " > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>> database?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Robin Hou
>>
>> Yes.
> anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated data
> base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.

Be that as it may you can still train on the GPS with an outdated database
in VMC all you want, which is why I assumed he was asking the question.

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:30:21 GMT, "Mike" <nospam @ microsoft.com>
wrote:

>"comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote in message
. ..
>>
>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> " > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
>>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>>> database?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Robin Hou
>>>
>>> Yes.
>> anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated data
>> base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.
>
>Be that as it may you can still train on the GPS with an outdated database
>in VMC all you want, which is why I assumed he was asking the question.

Until the procedure is changed and the waypoints on the box and on the
chart don't match any more.

[Mike]

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote
>
>>
>>"Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
...
>>> " > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
>>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>>> database?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Robin Hou
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated data
>>base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.
>>
>>
> This doesn't answer your Q but may I ask why the KLN90B? It is an out
> of date product, WAY out of date in fact, and no longer made or even
> properly supported with database updates (the flash card is too
> small).
>
> If you are looking for that size unit, a KLN94 is a lot better.

The KLN90B is fully supported by database updates. I think you're confusing
it with the KLN89B which has a smaller card, but even in the case of the
KLN89B the only thing you lose is Canada and South America which is not a
problem for most.

[Ross]

Mike wrote:
> "Peter" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote
>>
>>>
>>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> " > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. Question
>>>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>>>> database?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>> Robin Hou
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>> anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated
>>> data
>>> base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.
>>>
>>>
>> This doesn't answer your Q but may I ask why the KLN90B? It is an out
>> of date product, WAY out of date in fact, and no longer made or even
>> properly supported with database updates (the flash card is too
>> small).
>>
>> If you are looking for that size unit, a KLN94 is a lot better.
>
> The KLN90B is fully supported by database updates. I think you're
> confusing it with the KLN89B which has a smaller card, but even in the
> case of the KLN89B the only thing you lose is Canada and South America
> which is not a problem for most.

The 89/B is fully supported. I load database updates from downloads and
my laptop. The 89/B is a fine unit but, agree, dated. I have been told
that it will connect for GPSS steering but the 94/B will not.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Mike]

"Ross" > wrote in message
...
> Mike wrote:
>> "Peter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> " > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach.
>>>>>> Question
>>>>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>>>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>>>>> database?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robin Hou
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>> anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an outdated
>>>> data
>>>> base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> This doesn't answer your Q but may I ask why the KLN90B? It is an out
>>> of date product, WAY out of date in fact, and no longer made or even
>>> properly supported with database updates (the flash card is too
>>> small).
>>>
>>> If you are looking for that size unit, a KLN94 is a lot better.
>>
>> The KLN90B is fully supported by database updates. I think you're
>> confusing it with the KLN89B which has a smaller card, but even in the
>> case of the KLN89B the only thing you lose is Canada and South America
>> which is not a problem for most.
>
> The 89/B is fully supported. I load database updates from downloads and
> my laptop. The 89/B is a fine unit but, agree, dated. I have been told
> that it will connect for GPSS steering but the 94/B will not.

It depends on your definition of fully supported. In the case of the
KLN89B, you must choose between 3 different options for the Americas. If
you choose the US option, you will get all of the approaches for Canada and
South America, but you won't get the complete database for those areas. The
KLN90B will take all of the Americas on one update. This is not really an
issue for most people.

[Ross]

Mike wrote:
> "Ross" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mike wrote:
>>> "Peter" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "comanche driver" <spamawayassh.ole> wrote
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> " > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach.
>>>>>>> Question
>>>>>>> for experienced KLN-90B users: Legality aside, can you operate
>>>>>>> KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
>>>>>>> database?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robin Hou
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> anybody who does an approach in actual using a gps with an
>>>>> outdated data
>>>>> base on a gps approach is just plain stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> This doesn't answer your Q but may I ask why the KLN90B? It is an out
>>>> of date product, WAY out of date in fact, and no longer made or even
>>>> properly supported with database updates (the flash card is too
>>>> small).
>>>>
>>>> If you are looking for that size unit, a KLN94 is a lot better.
>>>
>>> The KLN90B is fully supported by database updates. I think you're
>>> confusing it with the KLN89B which has a smaller card, but even in
>>> the case of the KLN89B the only thing you lose is Canada and South
>>> America which is not a problem for most.
>>
>> The 89/B is fully supported. I load database updates from downloads
>> and my laptop. The 89/B is a fine unit but, agree, dated. I have been
>> told that it will connect for GPSS steering but the 94/B will not.
>
> It depends on your definition of fully supported. In the case of the
> KLN89B, you must choose between 3 different options for the Americas.
> If you choose the US option, you will get all of the approaches for
> Canada and South America, but you won't get the complete database for
> those areas. The KLN90B will take all of the Americas on one update.
> This is not really an issue for most people.

Yes, I know. I have had this about 8 years and I mis loaded the database
a couple of months ago. I picked Canada. Who knows why. I contacted
Honeywell and they gave me back my download and I did the correct one.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Bill]

I would still vote for the 89B. The '94 is plug compatible and makes
a nice
upgrade. It's a lot like a 430 on the GPS side.

The 90B has no upgrade path whatever. Not plug compatible with
anything.

Bill Hale

On Oct 5, 6:25*pm, "Mike" <nospam@ microsoft.com> wrote:
> " > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> >I am considering KLN-90B as replacement for my M-3 Approach. *Question
> > for experienced KLN-90B users: *Legality aside, can you operate
> > KLN-90B in approach mode (doing GPS approaches) with an outdated
> > database?
>
> > Thanks in advance,
>
> > Robin Hou
>
> Yes.

[[email protected]]

Wow, I did not expect any more reply 10 days after Mike's initial
reply of "Yes". I guess being called "stupid" does have its
advantage ;-)

The reason I consider KLN-90B because it has ARINC 429 output, and I
am hoping it can talk to Aspen EFD1000 Pro. I have emailed Aspen but
received no reply yet. But why would I install a Legacy GPS to talk
to a glass panel PFD? LOL!

I asked about outdated database because I am based in So. Cal. and
most my flights are practice approaches in VFR condition. I plan to
keep database current during winter months and just let it expires
after storm season. I have a Motion LS800 running Jeppesen FliteDeck
and it is always current 365 days a year. That is good enough for me
to fly VOR approaches using KLN-90B to monitor my approaches even if
the database is not current. Plus, my home base has only VOR
approaches with GPS overlay.

Anyhow, my panel update is still in day-dreaming stage. Thanks for
all who replied.

Robin Hou

[Mike]

" > wrote in message
...
> Wow, I did not expect any more reply 10 days after Mike's initial
> reply of "Yes". I guess being called "stupid" does have its
> advantage ;-)
>
> The reason I consider KLN-90B because it has ARINC 429 output, and I
> am hoping it can talk to Aspen EFD1000 Pro. I have emailed Aspen but
> received no reply yet. But why would I install a Legacy GPS to talk
> to a glass panel PFD? LOL!

One thing to think about is if you're going to have or want GPSS autopilot
functionality and a GPS connection to the Aspen, you may want to see if both
are possible. I'm not sure if the ARINC 429 will serve both GPSS and the
Aspen so this is a question you might want to have answered by a
knowledgeable avionics installer.

[[email protected]]

>
> One thing to think about is if you're going to have or want GPSS autopilot
> functionality and a GPS connection to the Aspen, you may want to see if both
> are possible. *I'm not sure if the ARINC 429 will serve both GPSS and the
> Aspen so this is a question you might want to have answered by a
> knowledgeable avionics installer.

Hi Mike,

My understanding is that Aspen has built-in GPSS. It replace my DG as
my CIII auto pilot's heading system. A GPS feeding Aspen with roll/
GPS steering sentences in its ARINC 429 output should drive my CIII
auto pilot as if CIII having GPSS. That is my understanding, but I
have not been able to verify that with Aspen since they have not yet
replied my email.

Regards,

Robin

[Mike]

" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > One thing to think about is if you're going to have or want GPSS
> > autopilot
> > functionality and a GPS connection to the Aspen, you may want to see if
> > both
> > are possible. I'm not sure if the ARINC 429 will serve both GPSS and the
> > Aspen so this is a question you might want to have answered by a
> > knowledgeable avionics installer.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> My understanding is that Aspen has built-in GPSS. It replace my DG as
> my CIII auto pilot's heading system. A GPS feeding Aspen with roll/
> GPS steering sentences in its ARINC 429 output should drive my CIII
> auto pilot as if CIII having GPSS. That is my understanding, but I
> have not been able to verify that with Aspen since they have not yet
> replied my email.

That would certainly be nice if it does work that way.

[Mike]

"Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mike" <nospam @ aol.com> wrote:
>
" > wrote in message
...
>>> >
>>> > One thing to think about is if you're going to have or want GPSS
>>> > autopilot
>>> > functionality and a GPS connection to the Aspen, you may want to see
>>> > if
>>> > both
>>> > are possible. I'm not sure if the ARINC 429 will serve both GPSS and
>>> > the
>>> > Aspen so this is a question you might want to have answered by a
>>> > knowledgeable avionics installer.
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> My understanding is that Aspen has built-in GPSS. It replace my DG as
>>> my CIII auto pilot's heading system. A GPS feeding Aspen with roll/
>>> GPS steering sentences in its ARINC 429 output should drive my CIII
>>> auto pilot as if CIII having GPSS. That is my understanding, but I
>>> have not been able to verify that with Aspen since they have not yet
>>> replied my email.
>>
>>That would certainly be nice if it does work that way.
>
> You need to make sure that the AP is certified to work with the source
> of pitch/roll info which you propose to use.
>
> This is a major issue for pilots who have some autopilot and then want
> to change to a different AI. It's OK for those whose autopilot work
> off just the TC.
>
> My KFC225 requires the KI-256 AI which costs a cool $11,000 new,
> $3,000 exchange refurbished. And these vacuum powered horizons don't
> run for ever, either.
>
> x----------x

Yet another reason to stay away from King autopilots, as if anyone needed
more.

[[email protected]]

>
> > You need to make sure that the AP is certified to work with the source
> > of pitch/roll info which you propose to use.
>

Not sure about other auto pilot. My avionic tech told me CIII's AI
need to stay on my penal with Aspen install for 2 reasons: 1. as a
back up that is driven by a separate power source than Aspen (it is
vacum); and 2. it dreives my CIII to provide pitch/roll info. In the
other words, the Aspen does not provide pitch/roll to my CIII, it only
replaces my DG and CDI (or HSI if I had one) as my auto pilot's
heading system.

Robin