Re: CIA U2 over flight of Moscow

[John Bailey]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:50:58 GMT, Jerry Ennis >
wrote:

>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:45:51 -0400, "Douglas A. Gwyn"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>There is a declassified redacted version of a SECRET/NOFORN
>>report on the U-2 program, "The Central Intelligence Agency
>>And Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and OXCART Programs,
>>1954 - 1974", released under FOIA at the CIA Web site. (You
>>have to conduct a search for it; there is not a unique URL.)
>>The 4 July, 1956 flight over the Soviet Union (which was the
>>first such U-2 flight) passed over Leningrad, not Moscow.
>>The *only* Moscow overflight was on 5 July, 1956; on page 103
>>of the referenced document (112 if you type it into the goto
>>box on the Web site) there are photographs from both days.
>>There is information about the Moscow overflight two pages
>>past the point I previously mentioned.
>
>URL is http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/U2/index.htm

Thanks--I cross-posted this to rec.aviation.military whose readers may
find some of this interesting.

Adobe page 57 is Page 45 of the report: Major Design Features of the
U2. Hardly technical, it was nonetheless an interesting read.



John Bailey
http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:10:00 GMT, (John
Bailey) wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:50:58 GMT, Jerry Ennis >
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:45:51 -0400, "Douglas A. Gwyn"
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>There is a declassified redacted version of a SECRET/NOFORN
>>>report on the U-2 program, "The Central Intelligence Agency
>>>And Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and OXCART Programs,
>>>1954 - 1974", released under FOIA at the CIA Web site. (You
>>>have to conduct a search for it; there is not a unique URL.)
>>>The 4 July, 1956 flight over the Soviet Union (which was the
>>>first such U-2 flight) passed over Leningrad, not Moscow.
>>>The *only* Moscow overflight was on 5 July, 1956; on page 103
>>>of the referenced document (112 if you type it into the goto
>>>box on the Web site) there are photographs from both days.
>>>There is information about the Moscow overflight two pages
>>>past the point I previously mentioned.
>>
>>URL is http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/U2/index.htm
>
>Thanks--I cross-posted this to rec.aviation.military whose readers may
>find some of this interesting.
>
>Adobe page 57 is Page 45 of the report: Major Design Features of the
>U2. Hardly technical, it was nonetheless an interesting read.
>
>
>
>John Bailey
>http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/mailto.html

It is interesting how far back the design elements of these aircraft
can be dated. High altitude jet aircraft technology was achieved by
the Germans in WW2. A Horton aircraft design which was apparantly
first conceived in 1931 was capable of flying at 52,000 feet.

[Keith Willshaw]

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:10:00 GMT, (John
> Bailey) wrote:

>
> It is interesting how far back the design elements of these aircraft
> can be dated. High altitude jet aircraft technology was achieved by
> the Germans in WW2. A Horton aircraft design which was apparantly
> first conceived in 1931 was capable of flying at 52,000 feet.
>

AFAIK it never flew an inch from the ground as no aircraft
capable of flight was produced.

The Ju-86R on the other hand managed to get up to altitudes
in excess of 47,000 ft IRC

Keith

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Keith Willshaw" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:10:00 GMT, (John
> > Bailey) wrote:
>
> >
> > It is interesting how far back the design elements of these aircraft
> > can be dated. High altitude jet aircraft technology was achieved by
> > the Germans in WW2. A Horton aircraft design which was apparantly
> > first conceived in 1931 was capable of flying at 52,000 feet.
> >
>
> AFAIK it never flew an inch from the ground as no aircraft
> capable of flight was produced.
>
> The Ju-86R on the other hand managed to get up to altitudes
> in excess of 47,000 ft IRC
>
> Keith
>
>

The problem with thos WW-II designs at high altitude was critical Mach
number. Designers in those days did not have a handle on Mach, or "high
speed" stall. Most airfoils in those days had a critical Mach number
around 0.75-0.80. If you exceeded this speed, the plane would "tuck
under," and you would be along for the ride until you reached higher
temperature air to raise the speed of sound and higher density air to
provide enough drag to slow you down.


The range between Mach stall and normal stall for a U-2 at altitude was
something like 3 knots.