How many B-52's were lost to enemy action?

[ArtKramr]

Anyone know?



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[Tex Houston]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone know?
>
>
>
> Arthur Kramer

Linebacker II information under B-52 Missions at...

http://members.aol.com/dpoole1272/home/home.htm

I think all losses are covered in this series of messages at...

http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/v08.n053

A good source of B-52 information lives right there in Las Vegas, Don
Harten, author of "Arc Light One" in which he describes the events of the
FIRST Arclight strike and his bad day. Not many people survive two
consecutive crashes.

Regards,

Tex Houston

Don,

A little publicity probably won't harm.

Tex

[Kevin Brooks]

"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone know?

Ten were lost over North Vietnam; another fourteen were lost outside North
Vietnamese territory, with seven of those counted as combat losses, and
sixteen others received "major damage" during raids against NV targets. One
was lost during ODS over the Indian Ocean either enroute to or returning
from a strike against Iraq.

Brooks

>
>
>
> Arthur Kramer

[Ed Rasimus]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:24:42 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
> wrote:

>
>"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
>> Anyone know?
>
>Ten were lost over North Vietnam; another fourteen were lost outside North
>Vietnamese territory, with seven of those counted as combat losses, and
>sixteen others received "major damage" during raids against NV targets. One
>was lost during ODS over the Indian Ocean either enroute to or returning
>from a strike against Iraq.
>
>Brooks

Actually, fifteen B-52s were lost over NVN during LB II. Another eight
crashed on recovery or in Thailand, Laos or the Gulf of Tonkin.

These were the only "losses to enemy action during the entire SEA war.
There were other losses on Arc Light missions, the most notorious
being the "circle-back" mid-air on the first missions.

A list of the Linebacker II losses can be found at
http://www.teleproductiongroup.com/12_72-day-by-day.html

Don Harten mentioned by another poster shows up at River Rats reunions
most every year. Will probably see him in two weeks at Nashville.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

"...There were other losses on Arc Light missions, the most notorious
being the "circle-back" mid-air on the first missions.... "

My Air Force neighbor across the street was an ECM operator in the that
first wave of B-52s that were turned back into the following wave of B-52s.
Then another Air Force neighbor two doors down left for SVN and was dead
within a month of arriving. He was copilot in a C-123 carrying mortar rounds
when an engine failed on takeoff.

It was a grim time on a residential street in Rancho Cordova, California
then.

WDA

end


"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:24:42 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Anyone know?
> >
> >Ten were lost over North Vietnam; another fourteen were lost outside
North
> >Vietnamese territory, with seven of those counted as combat losses, and
> >sixteen others received "major damage" during raids against NV targets.
One
> >was lost during ODS over the Indian Ocean either enroute to or returning
> >from a strike against Iraq.
> >
> >Brooks
>
> Actually, fifteen B-52s were lost over NVN during LB II. Another eight
> crashed on recovery or in Thailand, Laos or the Gulf of Tonkin.
>
> These were the only "losses to enemy action during the entire SEA war.
> There were other losses on Arc Light missions, the most notorious
> being the "circle-back" mid-air on the first missions.
>
> A list of the Linebacker II losses can be found at
> http://www.teleproductiongroup.com/12_72-day-by-day.html
>
> Don Harten mentioned by another poster shows up at River Rats reunions
> most every year. Will probably see him in two weeks at Nashville.
>
>
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> Smithsonian Institution Press
> ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[Guy Alcala]

Ed Rasimus wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:24:42 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Anyone know?
> >
> >Ten were lost over North Vietnam; another fourteen were lost outside North
> >Vietnamese territory, with seven of those counted as combat losses, and
> >sixteen others received "major damage" during raids against NV targets. One
> >was lost during ODS over the Indian Ocean either enroute to or returning
> >from a strike against Iraq.
> >
> >Brooks
>
> Actually, fifteen B-52s were lost over NVN during LB II. Another eight
> crashed on recovery or in Thailand, Laos or the Gulf of Tonkin.
>
> These were the only "losses to enemy action during the entire SEA war.
> There were other losses on Arc Light missions, the most notorious
> being the "circle-back" mid-air on the first missions.
>
> A list of the Linebacker II losses can be found at
> http://www.teleproductiongroup.com/12_72-day-by-day.html

Which lists only fifteen a/c, but not all of those were "lost" over North
Vietnam, although they were all "hit" there. Offhand I only remember one other
a/c lost as a result of combat damage sustained over NVN, in October or maybe it
was November. I think there may have been one in 1973 as well, but that one
wasn't lost over NVN.

Guy

[BUFDRVR]

>Actually, fifteen B-52s were lost over NVN during LB II. Another eight
>crashed on recovery or in Thailand, Laos or the Gulf of Tonkin.

Robert Dorr has an excellent book with an appendix that lists every B-52 lost
over the entire life of the aircraft. Dorr lists 31 B-52s lost in Southeast
Asia. There were 12 non-combat related losses from JUN 65 till the first combat
loss on 22 NOV 72. These non-combat losses included; 4 mid-air collisions, 1
failed non-combat related Emergency Landing in Da Nang, 5 takeoff mishaps
including one wing structural failure (yikes!), 1 lightning strike and a ground
fire at Kadena. Following the first combat loss in NOV 72, 15 more followed
during Linebacker II, however they weren't the final losses or even combat
losses. On 4 JAN 73, a D model crashed in the South China Sea after being
struck by an SA-2 near Vihn, NV. The final combat loss was a D model that made
an emergency landing at Da Nang on 13 JAN 73, he had sustained battle damage. A
CANN bird D model that had a non-combat related crash landing at Utapo in OCT
72 was finally scrapped in FEB 73, ending the losses for B-52s in SE Asia.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Kevin Brooks]

"BUFDRVR" > wrote in message
...
> >Actually, fifteen B-52s were lost over NVN during LB II. Another eight
> >crashed on recovery or in Thailand, Laos or the Gulf of Tonkin.
>
> Robert Dorr has an excellent book with an appendix that lists every B-52
lost
> over the entire life of the aircraft. Dorr lists 31 B-52s lost in
Southeast
> Asia. There were 12 non-combat related losses from JUN 65 till the first
combat
> loss on 22 NOV 72. These non-combat losses included; 4 mid-air collisions,
1
> failed non-combat related Emergency Landing in Da Nang, 5 takeoff mishaps
> including one wing structural failure (yikes!), 1 lightning strike and a
ground
> fire at Kadena. Following the first combat loss in NOV 72, 15 more
followed
> during Linebacker II, however they weren't the final losses or even combat
> losses. On 4 JAN 73, a D model crashed in the South China Sea after being
> struck by an SA-2 near Vihn, NV. The final combat loss was a D model that
made
> an emergency landing at Da Nang on 13 JAN 73, he had sustained battle
damage. A
> CANN bird D model that had a non-combat related crash landing at Utapo in
OCT
> 72 was finally scrapped in FEB 73, ending the losses for B-52s in SE Asia.

I was using a POW webpage, which appears to have some pretty detailed info,
though sometimes a bit confusing in how they counted what and where. How
does it compare to the data you have?

www.nampows.org/B-52.html

Brooks


>
>
> BUFDRVR
>
> "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
> everyone on Bear Creek"

[Ed Rasimus]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:20:53 -0400, "Kevin Brooks"
> wrote:

>
>I was using a POW webpage, which appears to have some pretty detailed info,
>though sometimes a bit confusing in how they counted what and where. How
>does it compare to the data you have?
>
>www.nampows.org/B-52.html
>
>Brooks

Here's the info I've got included as a footnote in the new book coming
out this fall:

During the entire Linebacker campaign 36 B-52 crewmembers were
captured. A total of 43 POWs from the Linebacker II campaign were
released, 33 from B-52s and 10 from USN/USAF tactical aircraft types.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[BUFDRVR]

>How
>does it compare to the data you have?
>
>www.nampows.org/B-52.html
>

The dates are good (plus or minus 1 day on a few), but that list fails to
document the crash landing in Da Nang in '67 (probably because there was no
lost aircrew, bailouts or fatalities, it was just a very hard landing after
already suffering some bad battle damage), the ground fire in Kadena in '68
(which involved no aircrew at all), or the 2 that were scrapped in '73 (one at
Da Nang and the other at Utapo). All the ones that involved bailouts or
fatalities matched what Dorr has almost exactly. If you notice, that web page
even mentions Dorr's book (co-authered with Lindsey Peacock).


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

[Kevin Brooks]

"BUFDRVR" > wrote in message
...
> >How
> >does it compare to the data you have?
> >
> >www.nampows.org/B-52.html
> >
>
> The dates are good (plus or minus 1 day on a few), but that list fails to
> document the crash landing in Da Nang in '67 (probably because there was
no
> lost aircrew, bailouts or fatalities, it was just a very hard landing
after
> already suffering some bad battle damage), the ground fire in Kadena in
'68
> (which involved no aircrew at all), or the 2 that were scrapped in '73
(one at
> Da Nang and the other at Utapo). All the ones that involved bailouts or
> fatalities matched what Dorr has almost exactly. If you notice, that web
page
> even mentions Dorr's book (co-authered with Lindsey Peacock).

Didn't catch that; thanks.

Brooks

>
>
> BUFDRVR
>
> "Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
> everyone on Bear Creek"

[Tuollaf43]

"Tex Houston" > wrote in message >...
> "ArtKramr" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anyone know?
> >
> >
> >
> > Arthur Kramer
>
> Linebacker II information under B-52 Missions at...
>
> http://members.aol.com/dpoole1272/home/home.htm
>
> I think all losses are covered in this series of messages at...
>
> http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/v08.n053
>
> A good source of B-52 information lives right there in Las Vegas, Don
> Harten, author of "Arc Light One" in which he describes the events of the
> FIRST Arclight strike and his bad day. Not many people survive two
> consecutive crashes.

Even less survive two non-consecutive crashes. Heard anyone who
survived the first crash, didnt survive the second crash and finally
survived the third crash?

>
> Regards,
>
> Tex Houston
>
> Don,
>
> A little publicity probably won't harm.
>
> Tex