ID WWII airfield wreckage?

[Ryan]

While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
photo of some German aircraft wreckage.

Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
identify them.

http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/

I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
about when and where they were used.

-Ryan

[Bob's Your Uncle]

"Ryan" < wrote in message
..
>
> http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
> I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
> about when and where they were used.
>
> -Ryan

Heinkel 177 - Greif and Gotha 242?

[machf]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:23:37 GMT, Ryan > wrote:

>While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
>photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
>
>Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
>identify them.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
>I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
>about when and where they were used.
>
>-Ryan

Well, most of the wreckages appear to be Ju 52s... the one closest to the
camera may be a Ju 88.

--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(

remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

[John Keeney]

"Ryan" > wrote in message
...
> While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
> photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
>
> Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
> identify them.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/

The biggest part of them appear to be JU 58's: all that corrugated
sheet metal is a big tip off. I think what may be confusing you is
that the rudders are missing from nearly all the vertical stabilizers;
the one exception near the center of the frame shows the over-all
shape you're looking for.
The left most tail section is something else. The tail's different
(the rudder appears to be that old style that extends a top portion
forward of the hinge line), not corrugated, comparable in size to
the Ju58, kind of slab sided, horizontal tail plane mounted high
on the fuselage; probably another transport or large bomber.
But I haven't a clue which one.
There just isn't enough of that large piece to the far right for me
to guess about what part of a plane it might be.
German planes aren't my strong point.

> I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
> about when and where they were used.

Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.

[Guy Alcala]

John Keeney wrote:

> "Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
> > photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
> >
> > Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
> > identify them.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
> The biggest part of them appear to be JU 58's:

??

Guy

[Keith Willshaw]

"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
> they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.
>

Funny I thought the aircraft that filled that role was the Ju-52

Keith

[Jim Doyle]

"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ryan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
> > photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
> >
> > Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
> > identify them.
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
> The biggest part of them appear to be JU 58's: all that corrugated
> sheet metal is a big tip off. I think what may be confusing you is
> that the rudders are missing from nearly all the vertical stabilizers;
> the one exception near the center of the frame shows the over-all
> shape you're looking for.

Possibly 52s instead of 58s.

> The left most tail section is something else. The tail's different
> (the rudder appears to be that old style that extends a top portion
> forward of the hinge line), not corrugated, comparable in size to
> the Ju58, kind of slab sided, horizontal tail plane mounted high
> on the fuselage; probably another transport or large bomber.
> But I haven't a clue which one.

He 177 with the rear turret mashed-up perhaps? Certainly of a similar size
tail section to those 52s, with the same shape vertical stabiliser as shown
in the picture, but I guess that's hardly uncommon.

> There just isn't enough of that large piece to the far right for me
> to guess about what part of a plane it might be.
> German planes aren't my strong point.
>
> > I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
> > about when and where they were used.
>
> Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
> they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.
>
>
>

[B2431]

>From: "John Keeney"
>Date: 4/18/2004 2:04 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Ryan" > wrote in message
...
>> While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
>> photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
>>
>> Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
>> identify them.
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
>The biggest part of them appear to be JU 58's: all that corrugated
>sheet metal is a big tip off. I think what may be confusing you is
>that the rudders are missing from nearly all the vertical stabilizers;
>the one exception near the center of the frame shows the over-all
>shape you're looking for.
>The left most tail section is something else. The tail's different
>(the rudder appears to be that old style that extends a top portion
>forward of the hinge line), not corrugated, comparable in size to
>the Ju58, kind of slab sided, horizontal tail plane mounted high
>on the fuselage; probably another transport or large bomber.
>But I haven't a clue which one.
>There just isn't enough of that large piece to the far right for me
>to guess about what part of a plane it might be.
>German planes aren't my strong point.
>
>> I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
>> about when and where they were used.
>
>Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
>they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.


I think you mean Ju52.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Bob's Your Uncle]

> Funny I thought the aircraft that filled that role was the Ju-52
>
> Keith

In Africa, the Gotha Go242 and 244 did that job!

[JDupre5762]

>Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
>they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.

I think you mean Ju 52 or to be even more accurate Ju 52-3m. For Junkers model
52 trimotor since the first Ju 52s were single engine. I wonder if there was
ever a Ju 52 2m?

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Bob's Your Uncle" > writes:
>
>> Funny I thought the aircraft that filled that role was the Ju-52
>>
>> Keith
>
> In Africa, the Gotha Go242 and 244 did that job!

Erm... The Go 242 was a glider. Not much use without a powered
airplane to tow it. The airplane the Germans used was (Wait for it!)
The Ju 52.
The Go 244 was an attempt to build a powered Go 242. It wasn't
successful, being woefully underpowered. Two line units briefly
converted to the Go 244 from Ju 52s in early 1942. Within 6 months,
one (K.Gr.z.b.V 104) had converted to Me 323s, and the other,
(K.Gr.z.b.V. 106) had converted back to Ju 52s. The surviving Ar 244s
were used for a short time at the Parachute Training Schools.

Both the Go 242 and Go 244 were made of smooth plywood, and had
twin tails mounted on booms, rather than the substantial currugated
metal fuselages with large fins (& occasionally rudders) shown in the
photograph,

The squared-off currugated ones are Ju 52s. The more rounded one on
the left is a Ju 88.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Keith Willshaw]

"Bob's Your Uncle" > wrote in message
...
>
> > Funny I thought the aircraft that filled that role was the Ju-52
> >
> > Keith
>
> In Africa, the Gotha Go242 and 244 did that job!
>
>

No sir the Go-242 was an assault glider, the 244 was fitted
with 2 engines but was slow and exceptionally vulnerable.
Only 176 were in fact built

The mainstay of the air supply for the DAK was the JU-52
supplemented by the Me-323

Keith

[machf]

On 18 Apr 2004 12:21:51 GMT, (JDupre5762) wrote:

>>Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
>>they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.
>
>I think you mean Ju 52 or to be even more accurate Ju 52-3m. For Junkers model
>52 trimotor since the first Ju 52s were single engine. I wonder if there was
>ever a Ju 52 2m?

No, they just added two engines on the wings to turn the original single-engined
Ju 52 into the 3m. AFAIK, there neber was a two-engined Ju 52.

--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(

remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

[Alan Minyard]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:23:37 GMT, Ryan > wrote:

>While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
>photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
>
>Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
>identify them.
>
>http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
>
>I would be fascinated to know what planes these are and any information
>about when and where they were used.
>
>-Ryan

I believe that they are probably JU-52/3m. The corrugated skin
and the vertical fins are clues.

Al Minyard

[John Keeney]

"Guy Alcala" > wrote in message
. ..
> John Keeney wrote:
>
> > "Ryan" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > While going through my grandfather's war photo album, I came across a
> > > photo of some German aircraft wreckage.
> > >
> > > Only the tail sections are visible, and despite my efforts, I can't
> > > identify them.
> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/newsgrouppictures/
> >
> > The biggest part of them appear to be JU 58's:
>
> ??

There are at least eight tail sections visible, part of
that total -in fact the biggest part, six- are very likely
to be Ju 58's and one other is likely a Ju 58.
:)

[John Keeney]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Keeney" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> >
> > Ju 58's were transports and used every where by the WWII Germans:
> > they filled the same roles as the American C-47, just not as well.
> >
>
> Funny I thought the aircraft that filled that role was the Ju-52

Crap.
All right, replace every time I've type Ju 58 over the last couple
of days with Ju 52.
Heck, I said right up front that WWII German planes weren't
my strong suit.

I wonder where I got Ju 58? I googled up "German trimotor"
before I posted...

[John Keeney]

"Peter Stickney" > wrote in message
...
>
> The squared-off currugated ones are Ju 52s. The more rounded one on
> the left is a Ju 88.

Now this is interesting: I'm finding pictures on the web of Ju 88s
with different tail designs.
At http://www.ju88.net they are rebuilding one and
http://www.ju88.net/comparisonbilder/tailplanedraw.jpg
clearly shows the vertical separation between the
vertical stabilizer & rudder. While
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/germany/junkers/ju_88/Ju_88_nf.htm
has this picture
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/types/germany/junkers/ju_88/junkers-2.jpg
about a third of the way down showing the style of rudder you see in
the picture that started this thread.

[Krztalizer]

>
>Now this is interesting: I'm finding pictures on the web of Ju 88s
>with different tail designs.

As with most aircraft in service for over six years, there was quite a bit of
fiddling with the design. The standard design, the Ju 88 A-4 bomber, was quite
a bit different than the Ju 88 S and the various Gs (nightfighters).

v/r
Gordon