25 middle-east prisoners tortured to death by USA

[Tamas Feher]

The hungarian state radio reported this morning that overall 25 (twenty
five) iraqi and afghani prisoners were tortured to death by US personnel
since late 2001 and there is irrefutable proof of torture in at least 35
cases.

http://www.radio.hu/index.php?cikk_id=87785
http://www.mti.hu/cikk/19936/

(This is no communist joke, Hungary is a member of NATO and the EU).

Regards, Tamas Feher.

[George Z. Bush]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> The hungarian state radio reported this morning that overall 25 (twenty
> five) iraqi and afghani prisoners were tortured to death by US personnel
> since late 2001 and there is irrefutable proof of torture in at least 35
> cases.
>
> http://www.radio.hu/index.php?cikk_id=87785
> http://www.mti.hu/cikk/19936/
>
> (This is no communist joke, Hungary is a member of NATO and the EU).

Any proof of those allegations provided for us poor English-only readers other
than what you say Hungarian State Radio said?

George Z.
>
> Regards, Tamas Feher.
>
>

[Keith Willshaw]

"George Z. Bush" > wrote in message
...
>

> >
> > (This is no communist joke, Hungary is a member of NATO and the EU).
>
> Any proof of those allegations provided for us poor English-only readers
other
> than what you say Hungarian State Radio said?
>
> George Z.

I doubt it since the actual story was that 25 prisoners
had died in custody, hardly a surprising number given
the total numbers involved and thus far 2 deaths
were confirmed as unlawful, proceedings against those
concerned were under way.

Of course the Hungarians never had this problem
under communist rule as by definition such deaths
were considered 'lawful'

Keith

[Ed Rasimus]

On Wed, 5 May 2004 13:31:37 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
> wrote:

>I doubt it since the actual story was that 25 prisoners
>had died in custody, hardly a surprising number given
>the total numbers involved and thus far 2 deaths
>were confirmed as unlawful, proceedings against those
>concerned were under way.
>
>Keith
>

The convolutions of language make it critical to understand what has
been said. Keith, very correctly, points out the distinction between
"tortured to death" and "died in custody."

Individuals captured in ground combat quite often can be wounded in
the process or even have been wounded in battles prior to the capture.
They can be suffering malnutrition, exposure, disease, etc, not caused
by the battle.

Of the thousands of Iraqis captured, more than half have been released
to return to their homes. Moreover, if only 25 died in captivity this
speaks more of humane treatment and superior medical attention than it
does of torture.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

[Jarg]

"Tamas Feher" > wrote in message
...
> The hungarian state radio reported this morning that overall 25 (twenty
> five) iraqi and afghani prisoners were tortured to death by US personnel


Amazing that Hungarian radio is so sloppy with the facts. Bet a statistic
survey of the situation would demonstrate this number is well within
expectations given the enormous numbers of prisoners that have been in US
costody over the period.

I also wonder how many Hungarian prisoners died in the last year!

[JStONGE123]

ONLY 25? :-(

We demand more.




The Durango 95 purred away real horrorshow. A nice warm vibratey feeling all
through your guttiwuts.

[Scott MacEachern]

"Keith Willshaw" > wrote:

> I doubt it since the actual story was that 25 prisoners
> had died in custody...

As of yesterday, at http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2551262

"Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- The number of prisoner deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan
known to be under U.S. investigation or already blamed on Americans
rose to 14 today, including two additional deaths being scrutinized by
the CIA's inspector general. ....
Senior military officials braced for broader investigations. "I expect
that as these investigations track down all the possible leads that
there will be more things that will need to be looked at very, very
carefully," Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, said today in an appearance on CBS' "The Early Show."

"As they chase the various elements, more people come forward with
bits and pieces they think they might have and that leads you to look
at other things," Pace said. "So there will be more investigations.
Where that will lead I don't know....."

Scott

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
(Scott MacEachern) wrote:

> "Keith Willshaw" > wrote:
>
> > I doubt it since the actual story was that 25 prisoners
> > had died in custody...
>
> As of yesterday, at http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2551262
>
> "Associated Press
>
> WASHINGTON -- The number of prisoner deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan
> known to be under U.S. investigation or already blamed on Americans
> rose to 14 today, including two additional deaths being scrutinized by
> the CIA's inspector general. ....
> Senior military officials braced for broader investigations. "I expect
> that as these investigations track down all the possible leads that
> there will be more things that will need to be looked at very, very
> carefully," Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
> Staff, said today in an appearance on CBS' "The Early Show."
>
> "As they chase the various elements, more people come forward with
> bits and pieces they think they might have and that leads you to look
> at other things," Pace said. "So there will be more investigations.
> Where that will lead I don't know....."

Still, nothing there about torture, is there?

How many prisoners, in total, have gone through the current prison
system? How many of the deaths in question were related to treatment by
prisoners by Iraqi guards (there are more than just Americans working in
the system)?

How many had been wounded during capture, were sick, etc.?

This may turn out to be a serious problem, it may turn out to be not
unexpected mortality rates.

[Scott MacEachern]

On Thu, 06 May 2004 19:08:17 -0700, Steve Hix
> wrote:

>Still, nothing there about torture, is there?

These 14 cases are ones where deaths were deemed sufficiently
suspicious to warrant an investigation. Here's one such case, just off
CNN now... dunno if it's one of the 14 or not: "An Iraqi prisoner who
died in November while being interrogated by a CIA officer and
contract translator arrived at Abu Ghraib prison with "broken ribs and
breathing difficulties" after being arrested by Navy SEALs, U.S.
officials said Thursday. Unnamed Pentagon officials were quoted
Wednesday saying the man had been delivered to the prison in "good
health."

They're separate from the torture cases.

>This may turn out to be a serious problem, it may turn out to be not
>unexpected mortality rates.

Well, General Pace seems to be taking it pretty seriously.

Scott

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
Scott MacEachern > wrote:

> On Thu, 06 May 2004 19:08:17 -0700, Steve Hix
> > wrote:
>
> >Still, nothing there about torture, is there?
>
> These 14 cases are ones where deaths were deemed sufficiently
> suspicious to warrant an investigation. Here's one such case, just off
> CNN now... dunno if it's one of the 14 or not: "An Iraqi prisoner who
> died in November while being interrogated by a CIA officer and
> contract translator arrived at Abu Ghraib prison with "broken ribs and
> breathing difficulties" after being arrested by Navy SEALs, U.S.
> officials said Thursday. Unnamed Pentagon officials were quoted
> Wednesday saying the man had been delivered to the prison in "good
> health."
>
> They're separate from the torture cases.
>
> >This may turn out to be a serious problem, it may turn out to be not
> >unexpected mortality rates.
>
> Well, General Pace seems to be taking it pretty seriously.

He would be derelict in his duty to do otherwise.