B-17 landing accident today, Van Nuys, Calif.

[Paul Hirose]

Channel 2 in Los Angeles had their news helicopter taping the landing
of a B-17 at the Van Nuys airport this afternoon and got more
excitement than expected. The plane's main landing gear collapsed on
both sides during rollout. According to the TV station's copter pilot,
the B-17 is named "Aluminum Overcast" and is owned and operated by the
EAA.

http://cbs2.com/california/CA--BellyLanding-kn/resources_news_html

In the video the tailwheel could be seen oscillating heavily and
continuously for several seconds before the mains collapsed. Both
wings dropped to the runway almost simultaneously, the right a split
second before the left. The B-17 came to rest near the runway
centerline.

--

Paul Hirose >
To reply by email delete INVALID from address.

[Dale]

In article >,
Paul Hirose > wrote:

> Channel 2 in Los Angeles had their news helicopter taping the landing
> of a B-17 at the Van Nuys airport this afternoon and got more
> excitement than expected. The plane's main landing gear collapsed on
> both sides during rollout. According to the TV station's copter pilot,
> the B-17 is named "Aluminum Overcast" and is owned and operated by the
> EAA.
>
> http://cbs2.com/california/CA--BellyLanding-kn/resources_news_html
>
> In the video the tailwheel could be seen oscillating heavily and
> continuously for several seconds before the mains collapsed. Both
> wings dropped to the runway almost simultaneously, the right a split
> second before the left. The B-17 came to rest near the runway
> centerline.

Really odd that both mains would collapse since they are completely
independant systems...the only thing common is the switch in the
cockpit. That switch happens to be right next to the flap switch.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Gernot Hassenpflug]

>>>>> "Dale" == Dale > writes:

Dale> In article >,
Dale> Paul Hirose > wrote:

>> Channel 2 in Los Angeles had their news helicopter taping the
>> landing of a B-17 at the Van Nuys airport this afternoon and
>> ...

Dale> Really odd that both mains would collapse since they are
Dale> completely independant systems...the only thing common is
Dale> the switch in the cockpit. That switch happens to be right
Dale> next to the flap switch.

Oh, big oops if that's the cause!
--
G Hassenpflug * IJN & JMSDF equipment/history fan

[Ron]

>Channel 2 in Los Angeles had their news helicopter taping the landing
>of a B-17 at the Van Nuys airport this afternoon and got more
>excitement than expected. The plane's main landing gear collapsed on
>both sides during rollout. According to the TV station's copter pilot,
>the B-17 is named "Aluminum Overcast" and is owned and operated by the
>EAA.
>

I think I saw that plane yesterday. I was at the Santa Barbara airport,
fueling and getting another retardant load put on the plane, when I saw a B-17
and B-24 fly over the airport in formation, at pattern altitude.


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

[Paul Hirose]

The Channel 2 news aired a crew member interview this afternoon:


HARRISON: It was so sudden that you don't have much time to think.

REPORTER: William Harrison is the former owner of this B-17 Flying
Fortress and was in the copilot seat when, 26 seconds after touchdown,
the front gear suddenly collapsed.

HARRISON: We followed all of our procedures. We had the gear down, the
green light to show that it was down, we looked outside to confirm it,
and so we didn't expect anything.

REPORTER: And Harrison says they still don't know exactly why the gear
gave way.


Footage taken today showed the B-17 sitting on the ramp at Van Nuys,
gear down, but with 4 aircraft jacks apparently supporting the plane.

According to an EAA spokesman quoted in the L.A. Daily News, its
"Salute to Veterans" national tour may be cancelled.

http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%257E20954%257E2129868,00.html

--

Paul Hirose >
To reply by email delete INVALID from address.

[Dale]

In article >,
(Ron) wrote:


> I think I saw that plane yesterday. I was at the Santa Barbara airport,
> fueling and getting another retardant load put on the plane, when I saw a B-17
> and B-24 fly over the airport in formation, at pattern altitude.

The B-17 you saw was the Nine-O-Nine since it travels with the B-24
Dragon and His Tail.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Jim Calpin]

That's a bummer. I had a chance to fly a hop in this aircraft two
summers ago - nothing like sitting in the bombardier's seat, surrounded
by plexiglass and watching the countryside rush by!

-Jim C.

Paul Hirose wrote:
>
> The Channel 2 news aired a crew member interview this afternoon:
>
> HARRISON: It was so sudden that you don't have much time to think.
>
> REPORTER: William Harrison is the former owner of this B-17 Flying
> Fortress and was in the copilot seat when, 26 seconds after touchdown,
> the front gear suddenly collapsed.
>
> HARRISON: We followed all of our procedures. We had the gear down, the
> green light to show that it was down, we looked outside to confirm it,
> and so we didn't expect anything.
>
> REPORTER: And Harrison says they still don't know exactly why the gear
> gave way.
>
> Footage taken today showed the B-17 sitting on the ramp at Van Nuys,
> gear down, but with 4 aircraft jacks apparently supporting the plane.
>
> According to an EAA spokesman quoted in the L.A. Daily News, its
> "Salute to Veterans" national tour may be cancelled.
>
> http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%257E20954%257E2129868,00.html
>
> --
>
> Paul Hirose >
> To reply by email delete INVALID from address.

[Bob Penoyer]

On Fri, 07 May 2004 21:19:01 -0400, Jim Calpin >
wrote:

>That's a bummer. I had a chance to fly a hop in this aircraft two
>summers ago - nothing like sitting in the bombardier's seat, surrounded
>by plexiglass and watching the countryside rush by!

Hear! Hear! About 10 years ago, I had the thrill of riding aboard the
B-17 (Nine O Nine) flown by the Collings Foundation. We flew from
Burbank to Torrance. You're right about the bombardier's chair--he had
the best ride on the plane.

[Marc Reeve]

Dale > wrote:

> In article >,
> (Ron) wrote:
>
>
> > I think I saw that plane yesterday. I was at the Santa Barbara airport,
> > fueling and getting another retardant load put on the plane, when I saw
> > a B-17 and B-24 fly over the airport in formation, at pattern altitude.
>
> The B-17 you saw was the Nine-O-Nine since it travels with the B-24
> Dragon and His Tail.

Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as "All
American"? Collings Foundation, right?
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

[Dale]

In article >,
(Marc Reeve) wrote:



> Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as "All
> American"? Collings Foundation, right?

Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[WalterM140]

>> Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as "All
>> American"? Collings Foundation, right?
>
>Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.

There's an LB-30 flying still.

Walt

[M.H.Greaves]

Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
"WalterM140" > wrote in message
...
> >> Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as "All
> >> American"? Collings Foundation, right?
> >
> >Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.
>
> There's an LB-30 flying still.
>
> Walt

[Bob McKellar]

"M.H.Greaves" wrote:

> Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??

I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html

Bob McKellar

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: B-17 landing accident today, Van Nuys, Calif.
>From: "M.H.Greaves"
>Date: 5/13/04 1:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Does anyone know what a C87 IS??
>"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
>>
>> > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
>>
>> I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
>>
>> http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
>>
>> Bob McKellar
>>
>
>

They also took out the bombay racks and in some cases sealed the bombay doors.
Also bombsight, intervalometer and bomb rack electrical controls were removed
as well as racks for MG ammo belts.

..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[M.H.Greaves]

Does anyone know what a C87 IS??
"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
>
> > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
>
> I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
>
> http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
>
> Bob McKellar
>

[M.H.Greaves]

Its a transport version of the B24, no guns, no bombs, no ammo, just a big
transport version of the B24, I first heard about them was in E. K. Gann's
book, "Fate is the Hunter" He flew one and just missed the Taj Mahal!!
Good Book; Well worth the read!!!
"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
>
> > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
>
> I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
>
> http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
>
> Bob McKellar
>

[M.H.Greaves]

Yup, that's right, it was just a plain, and basic bomber, no frills.
"ArtKramr" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: B-17 landing accident today, Van Nuys, Calif.
> >From: "M.H.Greaves"
> >Date: 5/13/04 1:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >Does anyone know what a C87 IS??
> >"Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>
> >> "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
> >>
> >> > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
> >>
> >> I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
> >>
> >>
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
> >>
> >> Bob McKellar
> >>
> >
> >
>
> They also took out the bombay racks and in some cases sealed the bombay
doors.
> Also bombsight, intervalometer and bomb rack electrical controls were
removed
> as well as racks for MG ammo belts.
>
> .
>
>
> Arthur Kramer
> 344th BG 494th BS
> England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
> Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
> http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer
>

[Marc Reeve]

M.H.Greaves > wrote:
> "Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
> >
> > I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
> >
> > http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
> >
> Its a transport version of the B24, no guns, no bombs, no ammo, just a big
> transport version of the B24, I first heard about them was in E. K. Gann's
> book, "Fate is the Hunter" He flew one and just missed the Taj Mahal!!
> Good Book; Well worth the read!!!

That'd be the "Gremlin's Castle", yes? I seem to recall that chapter
being excerpted in Reader's Digest.

Ended up reading a lot of aviation books after seeing excerpts in RD.
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

[John Keeney]

"M.H.Greaves" > wrote in message
...
> Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
> "WalterM140" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >> Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as
"All
> > >> American"? Collings Foundation, right?
> > >
> > >Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.
> >
> > There's an LB-30 flying still.

Heard of a C-87? Why sure, did you know that FDR
used a C-87 in a role that in later days would get a plane
called Air Force 1?
I don't guess I've ever seen one though, outside a photo.
Any C-87 survivors have likely been converted to B-24s
by now. I know this was the case for XC-108, a B-17E
converted to a tanker; it was "discovered" to still exist in
private hands but was restored to the B-17 configuration.

[M.H.Greaves]

As far as I can tell, he only did two genuine factual aviation books, but I
may be wrong! (maybe you can put me right!) I went to my local library and
found a whole load of his, but they were all fiction, except "flying
Circus", for some reason, I don't know why exactly, I cannot read fiction,
Science fiction if I'm in the right mood (rarely), but when it comes to
flying, its gotta be factual!!
"Marc Reeve" > wrote in message
...
> M.H.Greaves > wrote:
> > "Bob McKellar" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "M.H.Greaves" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
> > >
> > > I suspect our friend Mr. Gustin has:
> > >
> > >
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/gustin_military/db/us/C87LIBER.html
> > >
> > Its a transport version of the B24, no guns, no bombs, no ammo, just a
big
> > transport version of the B24, I first heard about them was in E. K.
Gann's
> > book, "Fate is the Hunter" He flew one and just missed the Taj Mahal!!
> > Good Book; Well worth the read!!!
>
> That'd be the "Gremlin's Castle", yes? I seem to recall that chapter
> being excerpted in Reader's Digest.
>
> Ended up reading a lot of aviation books after seeing excerpts in RD.
> --
> Marc Reeve
> actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
> c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

[M.H.Greaves]

I know, the B24s also became converted airliners after the war!
But then so did allot of old bombers!
"John Keeney" > wrote in message
...
>
> "M.H.Greaves" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Speaking about B24's; has anyone ever heard of a C87 ??
> > "WalterM140" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >> Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as
> "All
> > > >> American"? Collings Foundation, right?
> > > >
> > > >Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.
> > >
> > > There's an LB-30 flying still.
>
> Heard of a C-87? Why sure, did you know that FDR
> used a C-87 in a role that in later days would get a plane
> called Air Force 1?
> I don't guess I've ever seen one though, outside a photo.
> Any C-87 survivors have likely been converted to B-24s
> by now. I know this was the case for XC-108, a B-17E
> converted to a tanker; it was "discovered" to still exist in
> private hands but was restored to the B-17 configuration.
>
>

[Marc Reeve]

Dale > wrote:
> In article >,
> (Marc Reeve) wrote:
>
> > Is "Dragon and his Tail" the same B-24 that used to be painted as "All
> > American"? Collings Foundation, right?
>
> Yes, the same airplane...the ONLY flying B-24.

Currently located at Moffet Field, along with Nine-O-Nine.

Wish i had the time to go see them... (Though I have enjoyed seeing
Nine-O-Nine circling the South Bay for the past couple days.)
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m