Want to build a REAL engine?

[bildan]

I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
a couple of years.

Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
unencumbered by smog controls. They get more than 100HP per liter
with some at 140 HP/liter. Of course, they rev like a dentist's
drill.

More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
crankcase. Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.

To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
articulating connecting rods. You'd also need a gear case to drive
the cam chains. Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
(~7:1) planetary gear set in the nose case. I'd also use an aircraft-
type fuel injection system instead of carbs.

If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.

Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
and take it to Reno. I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.

[John Kimmel[_2_]]

bildan wrote:
> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> a couple of years.
>
> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> unencumbered by smog controls. They get more than 100HP per liter
> with some at 140 HP/liter. Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> drill.
>
> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> crankcase. Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> articulating connecting rods. You'd also need a gear case to drive
> the cam chains. Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> (~7:1) planetary gear set in the nose case. I'd also use an aircraft-
> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> and take it to Reno. I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.

Already been done.
http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm

--
John Kimmel


I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.

[bildan]

On Jan 17, 10:05*am, John Kimmel > wrote:
> bildan wrote:
> > I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> > a couple of years.
>
> > Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> > unencumbered by smog controls. *They get more than 100HP per liter
> > with some at 140 HP/liter. *Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> > drill.
>
> > More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> > crankcase. *Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> > blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> > To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> > articulating connecting rods. *You'd also need a gear case to drive
> > the cam chains. *Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> > (~7:1) *planetary gear set in the nose case. *I'd also use an aircraft-
> > type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> > If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> > cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> > reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> > Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> > and take it to Reno. *I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>
> Already been done.http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>
> --
> John Kimmel
>
>
> I think it will be quiet around here now. *So long.

Actually, I think I made a mistake on the 30" diameter. I got that by
measuring the distance from the crank center to the top of the valve
covers of a Kawasaki. That's fine for a 4-cylinder but a radial is a
different matter.

To make room for 9 blocks and the intake/exhaust manifolds that go
between them, the engine diameter would have to be larger. Maybe 42"
- 48" diameter would work.

[Dan[_12_]]

John Kimmel wrote:
> bildan wrote:
>> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
>> a couple of years.
>>
>> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
>> unencumbered by smog controls. They get more than 100HP per liter
>> with some at 140 HP/liter. Of course, they rev like a dentist's
>> drill.
>>
>> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
>> crankcase. Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
>> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>>
>> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
>> articulating connecting rods. You'd also need a gear case to drive
>> the cam chains. Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
>> (~7:1) planetary gear set in the nose case. I'd also use an aircraft-
>> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>>
>> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
>> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
>> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>>
>> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
>> and take it to Reno. I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>
> Already been done.
> http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>

I bet that is great at straight lines, but how big is the turn radius?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[bod43]

On 17 Jan, 16:14, bildan > wrote:
> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> a couple of years.
>
> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> unencumbered by smog controls. *They get more than 100HP per liter
> with some at 140 HP/liter. *Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> drill.
>
> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> crankcase. *Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> articulating connecting rods. *You'd also need a gear case to drive
> the cam chains. *Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> (~7:1) *planetary gear set in the nose case. *I'd also use an aircraft-
> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> and take it to Reno. *I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.

Here is a proper V8 made using 2 x suzuki hyabusa engine
blocks and heads. It is properly engineered and
gives twice the power of the original - say 350hp.
If memory serves me correctly the power is taken off of a gear at
the centre of the crank on the original and the V8 is likely the same.

http://flickr.com/photos/10983301@N06/3068124763/

If you want more maybe a turbine should be considered:)


http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/RadicalSR8.htm
some description here with weight and power.
Says £20,000 ready to run.

Was built for car racing.

There have been a number of similar projects I understand.

google [radical v8]

[bod43]

On 17 Jan, 21:22, bod43 > wrote:
> On 17 Jan, 16:14, bildan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> > a couple of years.
>
> > Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> > unencumbered by smog controls. *They get more than 100HP per liter
> > with some at 140 HP/liter. *Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> > drill.
>
> > More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> > crankcase. *Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> > blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> > To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> > articulating connecting rods. *You'd also need a gear case to drive
> > the cam chains. *Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> > (~7:1) *planetary gear set in the nose case. *I'd also use an aircraft-
> > type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> > If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> > cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> > reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> > Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> > and take it to Reno. *I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>
> Here is a proper V8 made using 2 x suzuki hyabusa engine
> blocks and heads. It is properly engineered and
> gives twice the power of the original - say 350hp.
> If memory serves me correctly the power is taken off of a gear at
> the centre of the crank on the original and the V8 is likely the same.

Looks like the centre drive take off comment was rubbish - probably:)


Here is another one.
http://www.h1v8.com/albums/album_image/4566006/1363744.htm
The web site is quite informative.

[Stuart Fields]

"John Kimmel" > wrote in message
...
> bildan wrote:
>> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
>> a couple of years.
>>
>> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
>> unencumbered by smog controls. They get more than 100HP per liter
>> with some at 140 HP/liter. Of course, they rev like a dentist's
>> drill.
>>
>> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
>> crankcase. Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
>> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>>
>> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
>> articulating connecting rods. You'd also need a gear case to drive
>> the cam chains. Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
>> (~7:1) planetary gear set in the nose case. I'd also use an aircraft-
>> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>>
>> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
>> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
>> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>>
>> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
>> and take it to Reno. I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>
> Already been done.
> http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>
> --
> John Kimmel
>
>
> I think it will be quiet around here now. So long.

The big bike reminds me of the task of putting windshield wipers on a
duck's ass. It represents a technical challenge, but the outcome is of
questionable value. Too much spare time?

[bildan]

On Jan 17, 5:30*pm, "Stuart Fields" > wrote:
> "John Kimmel" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > bildan wrote:
> >> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> >> a couple of years.
>
> >> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> >> unencumbered by smog controls. *They get more than 100HP per liter
> >> with some at 140 HP/liter. *Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> >> drill.
>
> >> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> >> crankcase. *Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> >> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> >> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> >> articulating connecting rods. *You'd also need a gear case to drive
> >> the cam chains. *Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> >> (~7:1) *planetary gear set in the nose case. *I'd also use an aircraft-
> >> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> >> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> >> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> >> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> >> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> >> and take it to Reno. *I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>
> > Already been done.
> >http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>
> > --
> > John Kimmel
> >
>
> > I think it will be quiet around here now. *So long.
>
> * * The big bike reminds me of the task of putting windshield wipers on a
> duck's ass. *It represents a technical challenge, but the outcome is of
> questionable value. *Too much spare time?

OK, the bike's prove you can take motorcycle 4 cyl blocks and create a
monsterously powerful multi-bank engine with them. The Hyabusa V8 is
particularly neat. The 48 clinder seems to be 2- stroke cylinders
which is weird.

For aviation, a big, round, mean, screaming, 1000HP radial would take
the show.

[Alan Baker]

In article
>,
bildan > wrote:

> I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
> a couple of years.
>
> Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
> unencumbered by smog controls. They get more than 100HP per liter
> with some at 140 HP/liter. Of course, they rev like a dentist's
> drill.
>
> More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
> crankcase. Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
> blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>
> To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
> articulating connecting rods. You'd also need a gear case to drive
> the cam chains. Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
> (~7:1) planetary gear set in the nose case. I'd also use an aircraft-
> type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>
> If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
> cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
> reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>
> Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
> and take it to Reno. I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.

Take a look at this:

<http://www.hartleyenterprises.citymax.com/page/page/1562069.htm>

400hp from an engine weighing just 200lb.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:06:29 -0800 (PST), bildan >
wrote:

>On Jan 17, 10:05*am, John Kimmel > wrote:
>> bildan wrote:
>> > I've been kicking this idea around with some mechanical engineers for
>> > a couple of years.
>>
>> > Motorcycle in-line fours are state of the art high performance engines
>> > unencumbered by smog controls. *They get more than 100HP per liter
>> > with some at 140 HP/liter. *Of course, they rev like a dentist's
>> > drill.
>>
>> > More importantly, the cylinder/head assembly just bolts to the
>> > crankcase. *Now, think of 7 or 9 of these in-line water cooled 4-cyl
>> > blocks arranged radially around a common crankcase.
>>
>> > To make it work, you have to make the case, crank and new master/
>> > articulating connecting rods. *You'd also need a gear case to drive
>> > the cam chains. *Finally, you'd need some serious gear reduction
>> > (~7:1) *planetary gear set in the nose case. *I'd also use an aircraft-
>> > type fuel injection system instead of carbs.
>>
>> > If it worked, in the case of 9 cylinder blocks, you'd have a 36
>> > cylinder, 500 pound, 30" diameter, 1000HP+ liquid cooled radial
>> > reminiscent of a half scale Lycoming XR7755.
>>
>> > Now build a slick little carbon composite airplane around the monster
>> > and take it to Reno. *I'll bet the sound alone would wow the crowds.
>>
>> Already been done.http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>>
>> --
>> John Kimmel
>>
>>
>> I think it will be quiet around here now. *So long.
>
>Actually, I think I made a mistake on the 30" diameter. I got that by
>measuring the distance from the crank center to the top of the valve
>covers of a Kawasaki. That's fine for a 4-cylinder but a radial is a
>different matter.
>
>To make room for 9 blocks and the intake/exhaust manifolds that go
>between them, the engine diameter would have to be larger. Maybe 42"
>- 48" diameter would work.

try these....
http://www.mile16.com/Radial.html

[Maxwell[_2_]]

"bildan" > wrote in message
...

OK, the bike's prove you can take motorcycle 4 cyl blocks and create a
monsterously powerful multi-bank engine with them. The Hyabusa V8 is
particularly neat. The 48 clinder seems to be 2- stroke cylinders
which is weird.

For aviation, a big, round, mean, screaming, 1000HP radial would take
the show.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it doesn't tell you if these hybrids are reliable.

There are a lot more issues with building a custom engine than just making
all the pieces fit together. None of these examples have been tested for
long periods of time at 75% power, and if they won't withstand such, they
serve little purpose other than exhibition.

[bildan]

On Jan 18, 10:54*am, "Maxwell" <#$$9#@%%%.^^^> wrote:
> "bildan" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> OK, the bike's prove you can take motorcycle 4 cyl blocks and create a
> monsterously powerful multi-bank engine with them. *The Hyabusa V8 is
> particularly neat. *The 48 clinder seems to be 2- stroke cylinders
> which is weird.
>
> For aviation, a big, round, mean, screaming, 1000HP radial would take
> the show.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> But it doesn't tell you if these hybrids are reliable.
>
> There are a lot more issues with building a custom engine than just making
> all the pieces fit together. None of these examples have been tested for
> long periods of time at 75% power, and if they won't withstand such, they
> serve little purpose other than exhibition.

It would just be for exhibition and racing. Just put it on a trailer
and show up at airshows and wow the crowds by running it.

The first flight would be in an unlimited racer. By way of
comparison, the old WW2 engines aren't all that reliable by modern
standards anyway. This thing should be just as reliable. I can't see
an engine like this anywhere other than in an exhibition and racing
aircraft.

All that said, the superbike engines are bulletproof by reputation -
they get run really hard. The top end is where most engine failures
occur and that part has been thoroughly tested - tens of thousands
have been built and sold. The crank, rods, case and accessories would
be what needs testing.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:06:02 GMT, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

>http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm

Not quite, the engine and gear box weigh over a ton, or at least 4X of
the target weight. W&B would be a bear.

[cavelamb[_2_]]

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:06:02 GMT, Stealth Pilot
> > wrote:
>
>> http://www.bigbikeriders.com/48cyl.htm
>
> Not quite, the engine and gear box weigh over a ton, or at least 4X of
> the target weight. W&B would be a bear.
>
>
>
>

It would fit nicely in a full scale F8F.
But it'd be a bit underpowered...

:)

[Zier & van de Steenoven]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:14:43 -0800 (PST), bildan >
wrote:

In Europe quite a lot of aircraft are flying with BMW 2 cylinder
motorcycle-engines.

Reliable, good power weight ratio

With a reduction from http://www.takeoff-ul.de/


Our plane is a Cherry BX2 homebuilt from Switserland.


regards,

Rob

[Zier & van de Steenoven]

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:35:26 GMT, (Zier & van de
Steenoven) wrote:


>
>Our plane is a Cherry BX2 homebuilt from Switserland.
>

The Youtube video on our Dutch Homebuilt Site www.nvav.nl shows this
plane!!!

[Brian Whatcott]

Zier & van de Steenoven wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:14:43 -0800 (PST), bildan >
> wrote:
>
> In Europe quite a lot of aircraft are flying with BMW 2 cylinder
> motorcycle-engines.
>
> Reliable, good power weight ratio
>
> With a reduction from http://www.takeoff-ul.de/
>
>
> Our plane is a Cherry BX2 homebuilt from Switserland.
>
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>

My, that Boxer does look pretty.
Is there an English language version of that site, I wonder?
Or, if not, how much? how heavy? how many horses?

Brian W

[Zier & van de Steenoven]

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:08:07 -0600, Brian Whatcott
> wrote:

>My, that Boxer does look pretty.
> Is there an English language version of that site, I wonder?
>Or, if not, how much? how heavy? how many horses?
>
>Brian W

Try this;

http://www.spang-air.de/willkommen/BMW_Engine/bmw_engine.html


On this site you will find a lot of information about BMW engines.
The owner Wolfgang Spang has lived in the US.

He can answer in English!

regards,

Rob -->> Papa Hotel Victor India November


And

http://www.takeoff-ul.de -->> Produkte -->>

http://www.takeoff-ul.de/pdf%27s/Description_TAKEOFF_engine_02-2006.pdf