Predator w/ Sniper Rifle

[Dav1936531]

I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis mulling around
in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.

I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone with a
..50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put a magazine with
50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad guy areas, spot them with
the Predator's optical systems, and zap them. Human snipers using the .50 have
kill shots from over 1 mile away.

Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point would
have to be worked out.

I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian areas
using this may be too politically inexpediant.

Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?

I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take care of
large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low cost. Further,
the jihadis would live under the constant threat of instant termination
whereever they are identifiable by the Predator operator as weapons carrying
enemies.

Comments?
Dave

[Peter Kemp]

On 15 May 2004 21:18:29 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:

>I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis mulling around
>in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
>I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone with a
>.50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put a magazine with
>50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad guy areas, spot them with
>the Predator's optical systems, and zap them. Human snipers using the .50 have
>kill shots from over 1 mile away.

Two reasons this won't work

1. The loiters at high altitude, and even if it could be stable enough
at that distance (it can't), the rounds would tumble in flight after
running out of energy.

2. See 1.

Peter Kemp

[Leslie Swartz]

Yes, the platform would be physically capable as long as you were able to
fire the shot from within 300 yards . . . out to 500 in a no-wind (<3 mph)
conditions. Platform instability combined with wind effects and ragne
estimation errors would make it impossible to keep shots within a 14" CEP
otherwise

Now, mount hte gun on something with more stability and more capability to
perform wind corrections, lead computing, etc. (like an C-130); something
with a crew maybe and lots of computers, and you probably could get "Minute
of Achmed" accuracy out to 800 yards.

However- getting inside the 300 yards needed for long enough to develop and
take the shot; now there's the rub as they say.

Are we willing to spend that much time and effort (and lose that many
platforms) for individual targets at this point?

Steve Swartz


"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis mulling
around
> in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
> I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone with
a
> .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put a magazine
with
> 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad guy areas, spot them
with
> the Predator's optical systems, and zap them. Human snipers using the .50
have
> kill shots from over 1 mile away.
>
> Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point
would
> have to be worked out.
>
> I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian
areas
> using this may be too politically inexpediant.
>
> Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?
>
> I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take care of
> large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low cost.
Further,
> the jihadis would live under the constant threat of instant termination
> whereever they are identifiable by the Predator operator as weapons
carrying
> enemies.
>
> Comments?
> Dave

[Chad Irby]

In article >,
Peter Kemp > wrote:

> On 15 May 2004 21:18:29 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:
>
> >I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis
> >mulling around in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
> >
> >I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator
> >drone with a .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off.
> >Say, put a magazine with 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone
> >over bad guy areas, spot them with the Predator's optical systems,
> >and zap them. Human snipers using the .50 have kill shots from over
> >1 mile away.
>
> Two reasons this won't work
>
> 1. The loiters at high altitude, and even if it could be stable enough
> at that distance (it can't), the rounds would tumble in flight after
> running out of energy.
>
> 2. See 1.

On the other hand, guided, cheap micromissiles might work. A pound or
so each, with a strong IR emitter in the tail for tracking, dropped from
20,000 feet and steered by radio.

Wouldn't even need to be powered, just fin-stabilized and pointy. If
you want to get really mean, put a shotgun-type charge in the front and
have it fire off a hundred feet or so feet the ground to cover a couple
of square meters.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

[Jim Yanik]

(Dav1936531) wrote in
:

> I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis
> mulling around in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
> I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone
> with a .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put
> a magazine with 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad
> guy areas, spot them with the Predator's optical systems, and zap
> them. Human snipers using the .50 have kill shots from over 1 mile
> away.
>
> Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point
> would have to be worked out.
>
> I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian
> areas using this may be too politically inexpediant.
>
> Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?
>
> I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take
> care of large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low
> cost. Further, the jihadis would live under the constant threat of
> instant termination whereever they are identifiable by the Predator
> operator as weapons carrying enemies.
>
> Comments?
> Dave

Those kill shots are probably against stationary targets,for starters.

Hellfire is a GUIDED missile,that can track a moving target.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

[Jim Yanik]

(Dav1936531) wrote in
:

> I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis
> mulling around in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
> I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone
> with a .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put
> a magazine with 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad
> guy areas, spot them with the Predator's optical systems, and zap
> them. Human snipers using the .50 have kill shots from over 1 mile
> away.
>
> Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point
> would have to be worked out.
>
> I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian
> areas using this may be too politically inexpediant.
>
> Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?
>
> I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take
> care of large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low
> cost. Further, the jihadis would live under the constant threat of
> instant termination whereever they are identifiable by the Predator
> operator as weapons carrying enemies.
>
> Comments?
> Dave

If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited weapons
like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the crowd?
Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

[Peter Kemp]

On Sat, 15 May 2004 23:54:17 GMT, Chad Irby > wrote:

>In article >,
> Peter Kemp > wrote:
>
>> On 15 May 2004 21:18:29 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:
>>
>> >I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis
>> >mulling around in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>> >
>> >I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator
>> >drone with a .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off.
>> >Say, put a magazine with 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone
>> >over bad guy areas, spot them with the Predator's optical systems,
>> >and zap them. Human snipers using the .50 have kill shots from over
>> >1 mile away.
>>
>> Two reasons this won't work
>>
>> 1. The loiters at high altitude, and even if it could be stable enough
>> at that distance (it can't), the rounds would tumble in flight after
>> running out of energy.
>>
>> 2. See 1.
>
>On the other hand, guided, cheap micromissiles might work. A pound or
>so each, with a strong IR emitter in the tail for tracking, dropped from
>20,000 feet and steered by radio.
>
>Wouldn't even need to be powered, just fin-stabilized and pointy. If
>you want to get really mean, put a shotgun-type charge in the front and
>have it fire off a hundred feet or so feet the ground to cover a couple
>of square meters.

VIPER STRIKE does this job nicely (or will once it reaches Iraq) -
Laser guided submunition dropped by a Hunter UAV - don't know what the
warhead size is, but it's probably better for low collateral damage
than a 500lb JDAM dropped in a marketplace.

Peter Kemp

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
Jim Yanik > wrote:
>
> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited weapons
> like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the crowd?
> Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.

Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly al
Sadr's mob.

[tscottme]

Steve Hix > wrote in message
..
..
>
> Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
al
> Sadr's mob.

Yes you can tell the jihadis are losing popular support by the
ever-so-displeased glance the locals try from time to time./sarcasm

Give the locals a clear option, kill the jihadis or be killed while we
kill them. The locals can't be allowed to remain neutral. Hell it
might do the Arabs good to actually participate in their freedom, it's
done wonders for many others.



--
Scott
--------
It's not a coincidence that pictures that would inflame the Americans to
war are not shown extensively while those pictures that undermine our
will to fight are shown ad naseum.

[Dav1936531]

>From: Steve Hix
>

>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited weapons
like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the crowd? Everyone
there is supporting the jihadis.<<

>Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly al Sadr's
mob.<

I think he meant "everyone (in the direct vicinity of the weapon carrying
jihadis) there is supporting the jihadis".

And while that is probably true, reports from the Fallujah siege indicate that
the gun toting trouble makers tend to hide behind women and children. The
Marine snipers reportedly were extremely valuable in that fight, due to their
precision in avoiding civilian casualties. In such circumstances, a 250 lb.
might be a PR disaster.

Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort of a
sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the required
level of precision hitting the target would probably be unattainable.......at
least with a .50 BMG round.

Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
trick.
Dave

[Eric Moore]

There has been some talk of mounting a 40mm weapon on a Dragonfly UAV.
See:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&newsId=20040225005539&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view

But I'm not sure if this will ever make it past the concept stage.

[John Keeney]

"tscottme" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Hix > wrote in message
> ..
> .
> >
> > Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
> al
> > Sadr's mob.
>
> Yes you can tell the jihadis are losing popular support by the
> ever-so-displeased glance the locals try from time to time./sarcasm
>
> Give the locals a clear option, kill the jihadis or be killed while we
> kill them. The locals can't be allowed to remain neutral. Hell it
> might do the Arabs good to actually participate in their freedom, it's
> done wonders for many others.

There have been reports of vigilantes hanging a few of al-Sadr's
men. They leave nice notes explaining why too.

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis mulling
around
> in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
> I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone with
a
> .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put a magazine
with
> 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad guy areas, spot them
with
> the Predator's optical systems, and zap them. Human snipers using the .50
have
> kill shots from over 1 mile away.
>
> Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point
would
> have to be worked out.
>
> I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian
areas
> using this may be too politically inexpediant.
>
> Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?
>
> I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take care of
> large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low cost.
Further,
> the jihadis would live under the constant threat of instant termination
> whereever they are identifiable by the Predator operator as weapons
carrying
> enemies.
>
> Comments?
> Dave

It's a good idea, though a gun system would probably not work as well as one
would like.

However, a directed energy weapon would be absolutely perfect. A small
high-powered laser mounted on a gimbal beneath the drone would be ideal for
picking off small to mid-size individual moving targets, at almost any
angle, accurately and with truly minimal collateral damage. It would track
targets just like a laser designator, but with more bang. We could pick out
and fry people, trucks, cars, etc., instantly and without any major
commotion. No big explosion, no nothing. Just zap, you're dead.

I don't know if a system package that could fit on the Predator is currently
available, but it's definately a good idea; and with all the past and curent
research regarding directed energy weapons, I can't imagine that we wouldn't
be able to get one flying sometime relatively soon.

I do know, however, that the Air Force has specifically requested that the
AC-130 gunship replacement (AC-X; whatever that may be), be equipped with
directed energy weapons.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-x.htm

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> I am seeing all kinds of pics comming out of Iraq of the jihadis mulling
around
> in the streets carrying RPG's and AK's.
>
> I was just wondering if it would be possible to make a Predator drone with
a
> .50 caliber sniper rifle in it to pick these guys off. Say, put a magazine
with
> 50 or 100 rounds onboard, loiter the drone over bad guy areas, spot them
with
> the Predator's optical systems, and zap them. Human snipers using the .50
have
> kill shots from over 1 mile away.
>
> Of course, linkage between the optical system and the gun's aim point
would
> have to be worked out.
>
> I realize the Predators can fire the Hellfire (IIRC), but in civilian
areas
> using this may be too politically inexpediant.
>
> Would the Predator be stable enough for something like that?
>
> I would think, if it is, you could make a platform that could take care of
> large numbers of enemy with minimum civilian damage and at low cost.
Further,
> the jihadis would live under the constant threat of instant termination
> whereever they are identifiable by the Predator operator as weapons
carrying
> enemies.
>


It's a good idea, though a gun system would probably not work as well as one
would like.

However, a directed energy weapon would be absolutely perfect. A small
high-powered laser mounted on a gimbal beneath the drone would be ideal for
picking off small to mid-size individual moving targets, at almost any
angle, accurately and with truly minimal collateral damage. It would track
targets just like a laser designator, but with more bang. We could pick out
and fry people, trucks, cars, etc., instantly and without any major
commotion. No big explosion, no nothing. Just zap, you're dead.

I don't know if a system package that could fit on the Predator is currently
available, but it's definately a good idea; and with all the past and curent
research regarding directed energy weapons, I can't imagine that we wouldn't
be able to get one flying sometime relatively soon.

I do know, however, that the Air Force has specifically requested that the
AC-130 gunship replacement (AC-X; whatever that may be), be equipped with
directed energy weapons.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-x.htm

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
"tscottme" > wrote:

> Steve Hix > wrote in message
> ..
> .
> >
> > Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
> > al Sadr's mob.
>
> Yes you can tell the jihadis are losing popular support by the
> ever-so-displeased glance the locals try from time to time./sarcasm

Some of them are starting to form up groups to take out al Sadr
supporters at night. Look around for references to Thulfiqar.

U.S.-trained SF troops are starting to operate with U.S. troops around
Najaf, too.

> Give the locals a clear option, kill the jihadis or be killed while we
> kill them. The locals can't be allowed to remain neutral. Hell it
> might do the Arabs good to actually participate in their freedom, it's
> done wonders for many others.

No civilians ever sat by in either Europe or Asia during WW2, did they?

[Cub Driver]

>VIPER STRIKE does this job nicely (or will once it reaches Iraq) -
>Laser guided submunition dropped by a Hunter UAV -

What are the economics of this? How much does such a rig cost, as
against the cost of offering paradise to the next jihadist?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Peter Kemp]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 06:21:16 -0400, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>
>>VIPER STRIKE does this job nicely (or will once it reaches Iraq) -
>>Laser guided submunition dropped by a Hunter UAV -
>
>What are the economics of this? How much does such a rig cost, as
>against the cost of offering paradise to the next jihadist?

I'm not sure what you mean - what has the next jihadist got to do with
it?


Peter Kemp

[phil hunt]

On 16 May 2004 02:29:41 GMT, Dav1936531 > wrote:
>
>Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort of a
>sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the required
>level of precision hitting the target would probably be unattainable.......at
>least with a .50 BMG round.
>
>Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
>trick.

While a high-velocity sabot gun would have a longer range, it
wouldn't solve the problem of pointing it in the right direction.
(And the longer the range, the more accurate the pointing has to
be).

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk)

[Nina]

On 16 May 2004 02:29:41 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:

>Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort of a
>sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the required
>level of precision hitting the target would probably be unattainable.......at
>least with a .50 BMG round.
>
>Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
>trick.

How about a medium powered sniper IR laser?
(I'm not talking starwars here) - but enough to blind/maim the
intended target(s) - no need to worry about windage, just point &
click. It'd keep collateral casualties to a minumum too...

Cheers,
N

[Peter Kemp]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 23:10:55 +1000, Nina
> wrote:

>On 16 May 2004 02:29:41 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:
>
>>Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort of a
>>sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the required
>>level of precision hitting the target would probably be unattainable.......at
>>least with a .50 BMG round.
>>
>>Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
>>trick.
>
>How about a medium powered sniper IR laser?
>(I'm not talking starwars here) - but enough to blind/maim the
>intended target(s) - no need to worry about windage, just point &
>click. It'd keep collateral casualties to a minumum too...

First off blinding weapons are highly illegal, as are weapons intended
to maim (though it's ok to kill someone - go figure), and secondly,
powerful lasers are probably not viable on a small platform like a UAV
for a while, simply for power source and size reasons.

I do like the visual though - some nutter in a market place waves an
RPG around chanting "death to the infidels" and a few seconds later
drops dead with flash burns and a smell of cooking bacon.

Peter Kemp

[Leslie Swartz]

Dave:

Saboted flechettes would be much, much less accurate and precise than a
..50 BMG round. CEPs in sniper variants of 10" out to 1000 meters do-able
(but certainly not from a UAV!) for the .50; notch that up at least one
order of magnitude (yes, 100") for a saboted flechette.

Steve Swartz


"Dav1936531" > wrote in message
...
> >From: Steve Hix
> >
>
> >>Jim Yanik wrote:
> >> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited
weapons
> like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the crowd?
Everyone
> there is supporting the jihadis.<<
>
> >Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly al
Sadr's
> mob.<
>
> I think he meant "everyone (in the direct vicinity of the weapon carrying
> jihadis) there is supporting the jihadis".
>
> And while that is probably true, reports from the Fallujah siege indicate
that
> the gun toting trouble makers tend to hide behind women and children. The
> Marine snipers reportedly were extremely valuable in that fight, due to
their
> precision in avoiding civilian casualties. In such circumstances, a 250
lb.
> might be a PR disaster.
>
> Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort
of a
> sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the
required
> level of precision hitting the target would probably be
unattainable.......at
> least with a .50 BMG round.
>
> Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
> trick.
> Dave

[Jim Yanik]

Steve Hix > wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Jim Yanik > wrote:
>>
>> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited
>> weapons like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the
>> crowd? Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.
>
> Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
> al Sadr's mob.
>

Then they should be turning them in to the authorities,or fleeing the area.

I doubt that in one of those rallies,that ANTI-jihadis are mixed in the
crowd.Heck,you can see them all waving their arms,and waving
flags,banners,etc.That's not anti-jihadi behavior.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

[Peter Kemp]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:54:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik >
wrote:

>Steve Hix > wrote in
:
>
>> In article >,
>> Jim Yanik > wrote:
>>>
>>> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited
>>> weapons like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the
>>> crowd? Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.
>>
>> Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
>> al Sadr's mob.
>>
>
>Then they should be turning them in to the authorities,or fleeing the area.
>
>I doubt that in one of those rallies,that ANTI-jihadis are mixed in the
>crowd.Heck,you can see them all waving their arms,and waving
>flags,banners,etc.That's not anti-jihadi behavior.

Look at it logically - you're on the way to the shops to buy a hun of
cheese, take a wrong turn, and find yourself caught in the middle of a
mob who you don't support - do you

a. Chant and shout along until you can get the hell away (my personal
choice)

b. Jeer and taunt them, and end up dead in under a minute with a 9mm
headache

c. Go and report them to the authorities - who happen to be the
Americans who have been killing a lot of innocent Iraqis along with
the guilty, and who are being watched by those same nutters yuo're
against - oops 9mm headache again

Tough choice huh?

Peter Kemp

[Jim Yanik]

Peter Kemp > wrote in
:

> On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:54:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik >
> wrote:
>
>>Steve Hix > wrote in
:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Jim Yanik > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited
>>>> weapons like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on
>>>> the crowd? Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.
>>>
>>> Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
>>> al Sadr's mob.
>>>
>>
>>Then they should be turning them in to the authorities,or fleeing the
>>area.
>>
>>I doubt that in one of those rallies,that ANTI-jihadis are mixed in
>>the crowd.Heck,you can see them all waving their arms,and waving
>>flags,banners,etc.That's not anti-jihadi behavior.
>
> Look at it logically - you're on the way to the shops to buy a hun of
> cheese, take a wrong turn, and find yourself caught in the middle of a
> mob who you don't support - do you
>
> a. Chant and shout along until you can get the hell away (my personal
> choice)

Why can't you just turn around and leave,WITHOUT cheering and shouting,or
antagonizing them? That's what I'd do,then I'd get on a phone and call in
what I knew. Unless you call while they're right next to you,they aren't
going to know what you're discussing on the phone. I believe the phones
still work there.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
Jim Yanik > wrote:

> Steve Hix > wrote in
> :
>
> > In article >,
> > Jim Yanik > wrote:
> >>
> >> If the crowd of jihadis is milling around and carrying prohibited
> >> weapons like RPGs,why not just drop a 250 lb. blast-frag bomb on the
> >> crowd? Everyone there is supporting the jihadis.
> >
> > Hardly. Quite a few locals are fed up with the jihadis, particularly
> > al Sadr's mob.
>
> Then they should be turning them in to the authorities,or fleeing the area.

"The authorities" don't happen to be in the neighborhood, although
they're moving that way. It might be that some people are getting fed up
with just standing back and letting the nutcases do whatever they want.

Other factions, such as al Sistani's crowd seem to have lost patience
with al Sadr and his pals, too.

> I doubt that in one of those rallies,that ANTI-jihadis are mixed in the
> crowd.

Being largely within one neighborhood or other, bombing the crowd seems
more than a little stupid, what with likely damage to persons and
property. A bit more finesse seems called for, don't ya think?

> Heck,you can see them all waving their arms,and waving
> flags,banners,etc.That's not anti-jihadi behavior.

[Pete]

"Jim Yanik" > wrote
>
> Why can't you just turn around and leave,WITHOUT cheering and shouting,or
> antagonizing them?

I had this happen in Madrid one night.

Walking around at about 2AM, a little bit toasty, came upon a big crowd of
people. Lots of cheering, and raised fists...

Being nosy, we worked our way near the front.

"Ummm...Bill...This is a Communist rally. Let's ease our asses out of here.
Quietly"

Pete

[Paul Krenske]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 05:58:15 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
> wrote:

>
<snip>
>I do know, however, that the Air Force has specifically requested that the
>AC-130 gunship replacement (AC-X; whatever that may be), be equipped with
>directed energy weapons.
>
>http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-x.htm
>
>
Quote - 'Special operators want the new gunship, or AC-X, to be much
smaller than a C-130, with fewer crew members. They want it to be
stealthy, with the speed and maneuverability of a long-range jet
fighter. They want it equipped with directed energy weapons and
non-lethal technologies, and it should be able to engage targets from
any angle-above and below, front and back. '

So in effect they want the ultimate combat plane

Faster than a F22, with greater range, more maneuverable, Small as
well, with more automation, with the ability to annihilate or stun
anything in sight in any direction.

At just 2 billion US$ a copy it's a steal.

To me it looks like the Special forces want to take over the entire US
air force, or have speed machine envy, or are setting a very high
bargaining position.

[John Keeney]

"Nina" > wrote in message
...
> On 16 May 2004 02:29:41 GMT, (Dav1936531) wrote:
>
> >Consequently, I was wondering about the possibility of a Predator as sort
of a
> >sniper platform. It was just a thought, but I am starting to think the
required
> >level of precision hitting the target would probably be
unattainable.......at
> >least with a .50 BMG round.
> >
> >Now a tungsten flechette fired from a sabot gun....that might just do the
> >trick.
>
> How about a medium powered sniper IR laser?
> (I'm not talking starwars here) - but enough to blind/maim the
> intended target(s) - no need to worry about windage, just point &
> click. It'd keep collateral casualties to a minumum too...

Blinding weapons are considered to be banned by the rules of war.

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
(Paul Krenske) wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2004 05:58:15 GMT, "Thomas J. Paladino Jr."
> > wrote:
>
> >
> <snip>
> >I do know, however, that the Air Force has specifically requested that the
> >AC-130 gunship replacement (AC-X; whatever that may be), be equipped with
> >directed energy weapons.
> >
> >http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-x.htm
> >
> >
> Quote - 'Special operators want the new gunship, or AC-X, to be much
> smaller than a C-130, with fewer crew members. They want it to be
> stealthy, with the speed and maneuverability of a long-range jet
> fighter. They want it equipped with directed energy weapons and
> non-lethal technologies, and it should be able to engage targets from
> any angle-above and below, front and back. '
>
> So in effect they want the ultimate combat plane
>
> Faster than a F22, with greater range, more maneuverable, Small as
> well, with more automation, with the ability to annihilate or stun
> anything in sight in any direction.
>
> At just 2 billion US$ a copy it's a steal.
>
> To me it looks like the Special forces want to take over the entire US
> air force, or have speed machine envy, or are setting a very high
> bargaining position.

With that as their initial position, their *real* position should look
very reasonable. :}

[Cub Driver]

>>What are the economics of this? How much does such a rig cost, as
>>against the cost of offering paradise to the next jihadist?
>
>I'm not sure what you mean - what has the next jihadist got to do with
>it?

Well, if we spend $100,000,000 on an aerial sniper rifle, and Osama
gets his snipers for free, how long can we keep it up?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

[Peter Kemp]

On Mon, 17 May 2004 05:43:27 -0400, Cub Driver
> wrote:

>
>>>What are the economics of this? How much does such a rig cost, as
>>>against the cost of offering paradise to the next jihadist?
>>
>>I'm not sure what you mean - what has the next jihadist got to do with
>>it?
>
>Well, if we spend $100,000,000 on an aerial sniper rifle, and Osama
>gets his snipers for free, how long can we keep it up?

Ah, got you know, wasn't sure what you meant.

In response - unless every UAV mission gets shot down, then you only
pay a buck or so for ammo for every ex-jihadi, plus the O&M of the UAV
(which you're paying anyway).

[Cub Driver]

On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:01:29 -0400, Peter Kemp
> wrote:

>In response - unless every UAV mission gets shot down, then you only
>pay a buck or so for ammo for every ex-jihadi, plus the O&M of the UAV
>(which you're paying anyway).

Good point. Okay, go ahead and buy 100 of the li'l darlings.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org