B2 and F117 question...

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

Are the B2 and F117 equipped with chaff and flare dispensors for emergency
use, or do they rely completely on stealth?

Also, would using such systems in an emergency actually do more harm than
good by revealing the position of the aircraft?

[Airyx]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message >...
> Are the B2 and F117 equipped with chaff and flare dispensors for emergency
> use, or do they rely completely on stealth?
>
> Also, would using such systems in an emergency actually do more harm than
> good by revealing the position of the aircraft?

Yes, they are equipped with Chaff and Flare dispensers, and no they
wouldn't do more harm then good. If you need to you them, then your
position has already been revealed, because that means there is a
missile inbound.

[Paul Hirose]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:
>
> Are the B2 and F117 equipped with chaff and flare dispensors for emergency
> use, or do they rely completely on stealth?

The problem with asking a question on a sensitive topic is that the
people who know the answer are likely to keep quiet. I was an avionics
maintainer for 10 years in B-2 flight test, and I've commented in some
detail about certain aspects of the plane in this newsgroup. But when
the topic is low observables, radar, EW, and the like, I won't talk.

Don't take that as a rebuke. There's nothing wrong with asking your
question -- just beware of the answers! Normally, the bad ones are
quickly shot down in a newsgroup. But when the subject is classified
or sensitive, the best-qualified gunners have to hold fire.

--

Paul Hirose >
To reply by email delete INVALID from address.

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Paul Hirose" > wrote in message
...
> "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:
> >
> > Are the B2 and F117 equipped with chaff and flare dispensors for
emergency
> > use, or do they rely completely on stealth?
>
> The problem with asking a question on a sensitive topic is that the
> people who know the answer are likely to keep quiet. I was an avionics
> maintainer for 10 years in B-2 flight test, and I've commented in some
> detail about certain aspects of the plane in this newsgroup. But when
> the topic is low observables, radar, EW, and the like, I won't talk.
>
> Don't take that as a rebuke. There's nothing wrong with asking your
> question -- just beware of the answers! Normally, the bad ones are
> quickly shot down in a newsgroup. But when the subject is classified
> or sensitive, the best-qualified gunners have to hold fire.
>
>

I didn't realize that it was a sensitive question; just figured that this
info was out there.

[miso]

I was at the firepower demo at Pt. Bravo (Indian Springs), and I don't
recall the F117a or B2 releasing any flares, nor do I have any photos
showing them releasing flares. Of course, this doesn't mean they don't
have any. ;-)

The B1b, which in theory is stealth, has plenty of flares. They pop
out the top.
http://www.lazygranch.com/capstone.htm
for the demo in october 2002, with some video of the B1 releasing
flares.

The latest capstone photos I took are at
http://www.lazygranch.com/capstone2.htm



"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message >...
> "Paul Hirose" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote:
> > >
> > > Are the B2 and F117 equipped with chaff and flare dispensors for
> emergency
> > > use, or do they rely completely on stealth?
> >
> > The problem with asking a question on a sensitive topic is that the
> > people who know the answer are likely to keep quiet. I was an avionics
> > maintainer for 10 years in B-2 flight test, and I've commented in some
> > detail about certain aspects of the plane in this newsgroup. But when
> > the topic is low observables, radar, EW, and the like, I won't talk.
> >
> > Don't take that as a rebuke. There's nothing wrong with asking your
> > question -- just beware of the answers! Normally, the bad ones are
> > quickly shot down in a newsgroup. But when the subject is classified
> > or sensitive, the best-qualified gunners have to hold fire.
> >
> >
>
> I didn't realize that it was a sensitive question; just figured that this
> info was out there.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"miso" > wrote in message
om...
>
> The B1b, which in theory is stealth, has plenty of flares.
>

What theory is that?

[Thomas J. Paladino Jr.]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "miso" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > The B1b, which in theory is stealth, has plenty of flares.
> >
>
> What theory is that?
>

I thought that the B1 was desiged as a low-observable aircraft; maybe not
stealth, but I do remember reading that it has a smaller signature than the
F-14.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." > wrote in message
...
>
> I thought that the B1 was desiged as a low-observable aircraft; maybe not
> stealth, but I do remember reading that it has a smaller signature than
the
> F-14.
>

"Not stealth" is correct.

[Ron]

>I thought that the B1 was desiged as a low-observable aircraft; maybe not
>stealth, but I do remember reading that it has a smaller signature than the
>F-14.

It wasnt really designed that way probably, but with the B-1B version, there
were modifications to lower the RCS, getting rid of the variable engine inlets
being among them I believe.

Its not a stealth aircraft per se, but definitely a lower RCS than many other
aircraft

Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

[miso]

Some people say the B1B isn't steathly, and some say it is. Don't try
to think too deeply about this.

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message . net>...
> "miso" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > The B1b, which in theory is stealth, has plenty of flares.
> >
>
> What theory is that?

[miso]

The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
they rope off the real stealth airplanes.

(Ron) wrote in message >...
> >I thought that the B1 was desiged as a low-observable aircraft; maybe not
> >stealth, but I do remember reading that it has a smaller signature than the
> >F-14.
>
> It wasnt really designed that way probably, but with the B-1B version, there
> were modifications to lower the RCS, getting rid of the variable engine inlets
> being among them I believe.
>
> Its not a stealth aircraft per se, but definitely a lower RCS than many other
> aircraft
>
> Ron
> Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
> Silver City Tanker Base

[Jeb Hoge]

(miso) wrote in message >...
> The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
> they rope off the real stealth airplanes.

They rope off all the heavy bombers at the airshows I go to.

[John Keeney]

"Jeb Hoge" > wrote in message
om...
> (miso) wrote in message
>...
> > The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
> > they rope off the real stealth airplanes.
>
> They rope off all the heavy bombers at the airshows I go to.

It's been a few years, but at one show I was at they let people climb to
the top of the B-1's boarding ladder and look around inside from there.
The B-52, at the same show, had the bays open and you were allowed
to get under the plane.

[Guy Alcala]

John Keeney wrote:

> "Jeb Hoge" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (miso) wrote in message
> >...
> > > The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
> > > they rope off the real stealth airplanes.
> >
> > They rope off all the heavy bombers at the airshows I go to.
>
> It's been a few years, but at one show I was at they let people climb to
> the top of the B-1's boarding ladder and look around inside from there.
> The B-52, at the same show, had the bays open and you were allowed
> to get under the plane.

I've seen open Buff bays at several shows, where you stick your head up
inside them. About 20 years ago at a Castle AFB airshow, they did a Loadeo
of an (inert, obviously) four B28RI clip, for time (the load team was
practicing for some SAC competition). Talk about having every move
choreographed so as not to waste a second, all the while working from
multipage checklists in plastic sleeves held together with three rings. I'm
surprised no one lost any fingers unpinning and opening/folding/closing the
bomb doors. Even more fun was hand positioning the bomb trolley under the
bay, especially as it must have weighed 10-15,000 lb. and the temp on the
ramp was upwards of 120. Their green fatigues were literally black from
sweat by the time they finished buttoning everything up -- ISTR the whole
thing took about ten minutes from start to finish, including maybe five
minutes spent out of sight inside the a/c, presumably making connections and
settings. Or maybe they were just having a few cold ones out of sight of
the crowd;-) But I doubt it.

Guy

[Paul A. Suhler]

"Jeb Hoge" > wrote
> (miso) wrote
> > The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
> > they rope off the real stealth airplanes.
>
> They rope off all the heavy bombers at the airshows I go to.

I remember an open house at Kelly AFB in the '60s where I was one of a
bunch of kids scrambling all through a B-52 in a hangar.

Until someone came and told us to get out.

:-)

[Peter Kemp]

On Mon, 31 May 2004 07:53:01 GMT, Guy Alcala
> wrote:

>I've seen open Buff bays at several shows, where you stick your head up
>inside them. About 20 years ago at a Castle AFB airshow, they did a Loadeo
>of an (inert, obviously) four B28RI clip, for time (the load team was
>practicing for some SAC competition). Talk about having every move
>choreographed so as not to waste a second, all the while working from
>multipage checklists in plastic sleeves held together with three rings.
<snip good story>

Anyone know if "quick turn arounds" are generally practised for the
heavier platforms in the USAF/USN/USMC (obviously at least some of it
happens with the above story), or is it mainly limited to CAS types,
for whom every minute on the ground is another minute you're not on
the cab rank?

Peter Kemp

[miso]

Well the bording ladder sounded like a real treat. I've been under the
B1B once or twice at Edwards with the bays open. The B1B doesn't look
that big, but it sure has capacity in the bays.



"John Keeney" > wrote in message >...
> "Jeb Hoge" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (miso) wrote in message
> >...
> > > The B1B paint isn't even RAM, which is why I assume at the airshows
> > > they rope off the real stealth airplanes.
> >
> > They rope off all the heavy bombers at the airshows I go to.
>
> It's been a few years, but at one show I was at they let people climb to
> the top of the B-1's boarding ladder and look around inside from there.
> The B-52, at the same show, had the bays open and you were allowed
> to get under the plane.

[Rudy]

> Well the bording ladder sounded like a real treat. I've been under the
> B1B once or twice at Edwards with the bays open. The B1B doesn't look
> that big, but it sure has capacity in the bays.

I got my 6'4" 275# frame inside the bone at Ellsworth but didnt want to try
and fit into the navigators "cut out" seat..figured I'd be stuck in there
for life.
R