P51s & Star Trek (sortof OT)

[Richard]

Is anyone able to identify the model (and date/year of active service)
of the following P51s? (and how do you tell!)

http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/common/images/zerohour/zh72.jpg

They appear towards the end of the Star Trek - Enterprise episode
"Zero Hour" - one of the NX01 shuttles are attacked by them...

(Now they could be fake - as no-one is sure whether the NX01 shuttle
is in the past or an alternate future)

Cheers,
Richard

[The Raven]

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Is anyone able to identify the model (and date/year of active service)
> of the following P51s? (and how do you tell!)
>
> http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/common/images/zerohour/zh72.jpg
>
> They appear towards the end of the Star Trek - Enterprise episode
> "Zero Hour" - one of the NX01 shuttles are attacked by them...
>
> (Now they could be fake - as no-one is sure whether the NX01 shuttle
> is in the past or an alternate future)
>

I'm no expert and will inevitibly get something wrong here but they look
like late war P-51Ds. Heck, they could even be Korean era.

Assuming the CGI/FX people attempted to include some reality reference I'd
start by checking out the markings . Perhaps "JAS" was a real aircraft?
Check for color markings and see if you can get a match. Looks like a
yellow spinner with a red tip and rear checker board....


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** President of the ozemail.* and uunet.* NG's
** since August 15th 2000.

[Dale]

In article >,
"The Raven" > wrote:

From the red rudder and red/yellow checkered nose I would guess 357th FG
of WWII....the outfit Bud Andersen and Chuck Yeager were in.

> I'm no expert and will inevitibly get something wrong here but they look
> like late war P-51Ds. Heck, they could even be Korean era.
>
> Assuming the CGI/FX people attempted to include some reality reference I'd
> start by checking out the markings . Perhaps "JAS" was a real aircraft?
> Check for color markings and see if you can get a match. Looks like a
> yellow spinner with a red tip and rear checker board....

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is anyone able to identify the model (and date/year of active service)
> of the following P51s? (and how do you tell!)
>
> http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/common/images/zerohour/zh72.jpg
>
> They appear towards the end of the Star Trek - Enterprise episode
> "Zero Hour" - one of the NX01 shuttles are attacked by them...
>
> (Now they could be fake - as no-one is sure whether the NX01 shuttle
> is in the past or an alternate future)
>

The aircraft are P-51Ds or P-51Ks. The red/yellow/red spinner and
red/yellow checked band on the cowling aft of the spinner are the markings
of the 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. The codes painted on the side of
the plane were used in Europe during WWII by the RAF and USAAF. They
depicted the squadron it belonged to and the individual plane's identity.
The two-letter group identified the squadron and the single letter
identified the individual aircraft. But the code letters AS were not
assigned to any squadron.

[Joe Osman]

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Is anyone able to identify the model (and date/year of active service)
> of the following P51s? (and how do you tell!)
>
> http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/common/images/zerohour/zh72.jpg
>
> They appear towards the end of the Star Trek - Enterprise episode
> "Zero Hour" - one of the NX01 shuttles are attacked by them...
>
> (Now they could be fake - as no-one is sure whether the NX01 shuttle
> is in the past or an alternate future)
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
>

Later in the episode Captain Archer is seen in a Nazi German military
hospital where one of the Nazi officers is an alien, as in alien not from
Earth. Assuming that he and the Enterprise are in the same space-time, that
would rule out the past.
I wonder if Harry Turtledove is taking over the writing, using his Worldwar
series as the template?

Joe




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[Howard Austin]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message .net>...
> "Richard" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Is anyone able to identify the model (and date/year of active service)
> > of the following P51s? (and how do you tell!)
> >
> > http://triptpolers.houseoftucker.com/common/images/zerohour/zh72.jpg
> >
> > They appear towards the end of the Star Trek - Enterprise episode
> > "Zero Hour" - one of the NX01 shuttles are attacked by them...
> >
> > (Now they could be fake - as no-one is sure whether the NX01 shuttle
> > is in the past or an alternate future)
> >
>
> The aircraft are P-51Ds or P-51Ks. The red/yellow/red spinner and
> red/yellow checked band on the cowling aft of the spinner are the markings
> of the 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. The codes painted on the side of
> the plane were used in Europe during WWII by the RAF and USAAF. They
> depicted the squadron it belonged to and the individual plane's identity.
> The two-letter group identified the squadron and the single letter
> identified the individual aircraft. But the code letters AS were not
> assigned to any squadron.


I'm almost certain they're models or computer generated. If real we should
be able to see the fuselage fuel tank level gage behind the pilot's head
and the gunsight mounted in front of his face, neither of which is visible.
I assume that the dark markings on the wing represent smoke from the guns. If
so, it's very strange. I've fired the Mustang's guns many times and never saw
such a pattern.

Howard Austin

[Merlin Dorfman]

Steven P. McNicoll ) wrote:


: The aircraft are P-51Ds or P-51Ks. The red/yellow/red spinner and
: red/yellow checked band on the cowling aft of the spinner are the markings
: of the 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. The codes painted on the side of
: the plane were used in Europe during WWII by the RAF and USAAF. They
: depicted the squadron it belonged to and the individual plane's identity.
: The two-letter group identified the squadron and the single letter
: identified the individual aircraft. But the code letters AS were not
: assigned to any squadron.

The pictures are blurred, of course, but the fuselage insignia
seems to have the red line through the white rectangle, which would
be, IIRC, 1947 or later.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Merlin Dorfman" > wrote in message
...
>
> The pictures are blurred, of course, but the fuselage insignia
> seems to have the red line through the white rectangle, which would
> be, IIRC, 1947 or later.
>

It doesn't look that way to me. I see what you're referring to, but the
stripe doesn't look very red. The red in the group marking on the
spinner/cowling shows up pretty well, why wouldn't it show up as well on the
national insignia?

The red stripe was added to the national aircraft insignia on January 14,
1947.

The USAAF adopted the "Buzz number" marking on November 6, 1945, for
fighters, trainers, and light bombers. The buzz number for a P-51 would be
PF- followed by the last three numbers of the aircraft serial. Note that
this aircraft has no buzz number.

I suspect the production crew just picked an image of a Mustang they liked
and went with it. They probably didn't think anyone would analyze it so
thoroughly.

[Merlin Dorfman]

Steven P. McNicoll ) wrote:


: I suspect the production crew just picked an image of a Mustang they liked
: and went with it. They probably didn't think anyone would analyze it so
: thoroughly.

I suspect you suspect correctly!