The Most Exploited Generation

[John Galt]

The Most Exploited Generation
Posted by Chris Dominguez

The way the mandarins of Warfare State never tire of their odes to
World War II, you'd almost think they were sorry it ever ended. Their
love of the "Good War" makes perfect sense, though; the period of the
war was a Statist's dream come true: all able-bodied men reduced to
chattel slaves of the government, and everyone else subject to its
regulation over practically all aspects of life. This helps explain
the creation of the myth of the "Greatest Generation." I say "myth"
not to diminish my grandparents or their contemporaries, but only as a
way of explaining how those not of that generation (George W. Bush,
Stephen Ambrose, Tom Brokaw, Steven Spielberg, etc.) have used this
flattery either in the service of their own gain or as a way of
shaming the rest of us into taking up our own mantle of "sacrifice" in
service to the Almighty State.

What will the Warmongers do when the last of those WWII vets have
passed away in another election cycle or two? Evoke the glories of
Korea, Vietnam, or the Persian Gulf? The State has been living off the
capital of D-Day for far too long; not much more blood can be squeezed
from that rock. Notwithstanding the Statist hope of a
generations-spanning Holy Crusade for Democracy, America will not and
cannot keep that party going. The keg is already running dry. In 15
years WWII will be to anyone under 45 like WWI or the War of
1812--just something that happened in 11th-grade history class.

[Jaberwokie]

You know nothing of pride or respect for your Country. Move in with the
Bedouins who have no country.

John Galt wrote:

> The Most Exploited Generation
> Posted by Chris Dominguez
>
> The way the mandarins of Warfare State never tire of their odes to
> World War II, you'd almost think they were sorry it ever ended. Their
> love of the "Good War" makes perfect sense, though; the period of the
> war was a Statist's dream come true: all able-bodied men reduced to
> chattel slaves of the government, and everyone else subject to its
> regulation over practically all aspects of life. This helps explain
> the creation of the myth of the "Greatest Generation." I say "myth"
> not to diminish my grandparents or their contemporaries, but only as a
> way of explaining how those not of that generation (George W. Bush,
> Stephen Ambrose, Tom Brokaw, Steven Spielberg, etc.) have used this
> flattery either in the service of their own gain or as a way of
> shaming the rest of us into taking up our own mantle of "sacrifice" in
> service to the Almighty State.
>
> What will the Warmongers do when the last of those WWII vets have
> passed away in another election cycle or two? Evoke the glories of
> Korea, Vietnam, or the Persian Gulf? The State has been living off the
> capital of D-Day for far too long; not much more blood can be squeezed
> from that rock. Notwithstanding the Statist hope of a
> generations-spanning Holy Crusade for Democracy, America will not and
> cannot keep that party going. The keg is already running dry. In 15
> years WWII will be to anyone under 45 like WWI or the War of
> 1812--just something that happened in 11th-grade history class.

[W. D. Allen Sr.]

You show such a compelling grasp of the obvious!

WDA

end

"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
> The Most Exploited Generation
> Posted by Chris Dominguez
>
> The way the mandarins of Warfare State never tire of their odes to
> World War II, you'd almost think they were sorry it ever ended. Their
> love of the "Good War" makes perfect sense, though; the period of the
> war was a Statist's dream come true: all able-bodied men reduced to
> chattel slaves of the government, and everyone else subject to its
> regulation over practically all aspects of life. This helps explain
> the creation of the myth of the "Greatest Generation." I say "myth"
> not to diminish my grandparents or their contemporaries, but only as a
> way of explaining how those not of that generation (George W. Bush,
> Stephen Ambrose, Tom Brokaw, Steven Spielberg, etc.) have used this
> flattery either in the service of their own gain or as a way of
> shaming the rest of us into taking up our own mantle of "sacrifice" in
> service to the Almighty State.
>
> What will the Warmongers do when the last of those WWII vets have
> passed away in another election cycle or two? Evoke the glories of
> Korea, Vietnam, or the Persian Gulf? The State has been living off the
> capital of D-Day for far too long; not much more blood can be squeezed
> from that rock. Notwithstanding the Statist hope of a
> generations-spanning Holy Crusade for Democracy, America will not and
> cannot keep that party going. The keg is already running dry. In 15
> years WWII will be to anyone under 45 like WWI or the War of
> 1812--just something that happened in 11th-grade history class.

[Abrigon Gusiq]

Its one way of dealing with Vietnam and like wars that did not go well,
atleast in the public mind.. Not that there was not oddities and
corruptions cause of WW2.

Much of the crisises of the world today can be directly related to
thigns we did not do during and after WW2. Like where did the Atlantic
Charter go after FDR died? Well, instead of helping give former
imperial/colonial possessions their freedom, we allowed the empires to
keep them and abuse them as before. Vietnam as being one.

Mike
Alaska


John Galt wrote:
>
> The Most Exploited Generation
> Posted by Chris Dominguez
>
> The way the mandarins of Warfare State never tire of their odes to
> World War II, you'd almost think they were sorry it ever ended. Their
> love of the "Good War" makes perfect sense, though; the period of the
> war was a Statist's dream come true: all able-bodied men reduced to
> chattel slaves of the government, and everyone else subject to its
> regulation over practically all aspects of life. This helps explain
> the creation of the myth of the "Greatest Generation." I say "myth"
> not to diminish my grandparents or their contemporaries, but only as a
> way of explaining how those not of that generation (George W. Bush,
> Stephen Ambrose, Tom Brokaw, Steven Spielberg, etc.) have used this
> flattery either in the service of their own gain or as a way of
> shaming the rest of us into taking up our own mantle of "sacrifice" in
> service to the Almighty State.
>
> What will the Warmongers do when the last of those WWII vets have
> passed away in another election cycle or two? Evoke the glories of
> Korea, Vietnam, or the Persian Gulf? The State has been living off the
> capital of D-Day for far too long; not much more blood can be squeezed
> from that rock. Notwithstanding the Statist hope of a
> generations-spanning Holy Crusade for Democracy, America will not and
> cannot keep that party going. The keg is already running dry. In 15
> years WWII will be to anyone under 45 like WWI or the War of
> 1812--just something that happened in 11th-grade history class.

[sanjian]

Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
> Its one way of dealing with Vietnam and like wars that did not go
> well, atleast in the public mind.. Not that there was not oddities and
> corruptions cause of WW2.
>
> Much of the crisises of the world today can be directly related to
> thigns we did not do during and after WW2. Like where did the Atlantic
> Charter go after FDR died? Well, instead of helping give former
> imperial/colonial possessions their freedom, we allowed the empires to
> keep them and abuse them as before. Vietnam as being one.

Hoh Chi Minh actually asked us for help with France before turning towards
Moscow. I wonder how history would have played out if we had honored their
request.

Notice how most of the US troubles start with F and with rance?

[ArtKramr]

>Subject: Re: The Most Exploited Generation
>From: "W. D. Allen Sr."
>Date: 6/3/04 3:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>You show such a compelling grasp of the obvious!
>
>WDA
>
>end
>
>"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
>> The Most Exploited Generation
>> Posted by Chris Dominguez
>>
>> The way the mandarins of Warfare State never tire of their odes to
>> World War II, you'd almost think they were sorry it ever ended. Their
>> love of the "Good War" makes perfect sense, though; the period of the
>> war was a Statist's dream come true: all able-bodied men reduced to
>> chattel slaves of the government, and everyone else subject to its
>> regulation over practically all aspects of life. This helps explain
>> the creation of the myth of the "Greatest Generation." I say "myth"
>> not to diminish my grandparents or their contemporaries, but only as a
>> way of explaining how those not of that generation (George W. Bush,
>> Stephen Ambrose, Tom Brokaw, Steven Spielberg, etc.) have used this
>> flattery either in the service of their own gain or as a way of
>> shaming the rest of us into taking up our own mantle of "sacrifice" in
>> service to the Almighty State.
>>
>> What will the Warmongers do when the last of those WWII vets have
>> passed away in another election cycle or two? Evoke the glories of
>> Korea, Vietnam, or the Persian Gulf? The State has been living off the
>> capital of D-Day for far too long; not much more blood can be squeezed
>> from that rock. Notwithstanding the Statist hope of a
>> generations-spanning Holy Crusade for Democracy, America will not and
>> cannot keep that party going. The keg is already running dry. In 15
>> years WWII will be to anyone under 45 like WWI or the War of
>> 1812--just something that happened in 11th-grade history class.

That's funny. I don't feel exploited. I didn't fight in WW II for monuments or
parades.. I just felt it had to be done. And I still feel that way. Pity the
poor ******* who has to fight in a war he didn't belive in.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

[EAC]

Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
> > Its one way of dealing with Vietnam and like wars that did not go
> > well, atleast in the public mind.. Not that there was not oddities and
> > corruptions cause of WW2.
> >
> > Much of the crisises of the world today can be directly related to
> > thigns we did not do during and after WW2. Like where did the Atlantic
> > Charter go after FDR died? Well, instead of helping give former
> > imperial/colonial possessions their freedom, we allowed the empires to
> > keep them and abuse them as before. Vietnam as being one.

"sanjian" > wrote in message news:<igXvc.1129$5B2.79@lakeread04>...
> Hoh Chi Minh actually asked us for help with France before turning towards
> Moscow.

Well, many countries asked toward Moscow AFTER they asked Washington
D.C. and was turned down.

This is actually is quite acceptable, one is allowed to not give help
and let things work it for itself. It's one's right on whether or not
one should give help. Forcing them, inflicting violence on them,
giving lecture to them, boycotting the, and so on so that they will
help isn't acceptable.

It should be noted that interfering with one's country own affair on
the other hand, isn't acceptable.

> I wonder how history would have played out if
> we had honored their request.

The term 'we' implied as if the citizens of the U.S.A. has the same
will as the government of the U.S.A.

It's not in the will of the citizens of the U.S.A.'s to go into a war,
let alone 'liberating' other people countries and fighting other
people's wars.


As for on how history will turn out of the request is accepted.

Well... It's not like that the U.S.A. government can accept the
request even if they wanted to, since in the end, the U.S.A. governmet
too like any other official government is only a tool, but not a tool
of its citizens.

[David E. Powell]

"EAC" > wrote in message
m...
> Abrigon Gusiq wrote:
> > > Its one way of dealing with Vietnam and like wars that did not go
> > > well, atleast in the public mind.. Not that there was not oddities and
> > > corruptions cause of WW2.
> > >
> > > Much of the crisises of the world today can be directly related to
> > > thigns we did not do during and after WW2. Like where did the Atlantic
> > > Charter go after FDR died? Well, instead of helping give former
> > > imperial/colonial possessions their freedom, we allowed the empires to
> > > keep them and abuse them as before. Vietnam as being one.
>
> "sanjian" > wrote in message
news:<igXvc.1129$5B2.79@lakeread04>...
> > Hoh Chi Minh actually asked us for help with France before turning
towards
> > Moscow.
>
> Well, many countries asked toward Moscow AFTER they asked Washington
> D.C. and was turned down.

North Vietnam was the main example there, but North Korea and Eastern Europe
went that way because the Soviets occupied them and set up their gov'ts.
(With a notable exception being Yugoslavia, where Tito ran things in an
uneasy "brotherhood" with Russia.) Cuba was also interesting, with Fidel
pulling a bait and switch. Of course, the place is a mess now.

Of course, on the motivations and reasoning for WW2, this doesn't wash.
Anyone can nitpick the outcome, but a lot of Europe, especially in the west,
turned out OK. Taiwan and South Korea became prosperous, free nations. WW2
was fought because the Nazis, Italian Fascists and Japanese were bombing,
killing, and invading people. The US got in after the Japanese bombed the
US, and early in the war the German U-Boats went nuts of the US East Coast
with Operation Drumbeat. There was just cause, if ever there was.

> This is actually is quite acceptable, one is allowed to not give help
> and let things work it for itself. It's one's right on whether or not
> one should give help. Forcing them, inflicting violence on them,
> giving lecture to them, boycotting the, and so on so that they will
> help isn't acceptable.

You need to extend your outrage to what the Communist nations in the
post-WW2 world, and the Axis ones of WW2, were doing to people. The Russians
killed millions of their own people, plus Ukranians, Poles, Estonians,
Hungarians, etc. etc.

The Chinese Communists murdered at least hundreds of thousands of their own
countrymen.

During WW2, the Japanese were going nuts killing people in China, they
maimed and tortured civilians and enemy POWs alike in the Phillipines. US
citizens, mind you. Plus Singapore, Wake Island, etc.

The Germans murdered millions. The Italians gassed Ethiopians and cooperated
with the Nazis in their war effort, until they were invaded and the Italians
themselves rose up and threw out Mussolini's minions - prompting Hitler to
order Italy occupied and attacked by the German forces.

The Japanese also, as was said, bombed the US and invaded her territory in
the Phillipines, Guam, Wake Island, and the Aleutian Islands. The German
U-Boats sank plenty of civilian US merchant ships off the US coast early in
1942.

> It should be noted that interfering with one's country own affair on
> the other hand, isn't acceptable.

Well, I do wish you would have been around to politely explain that to
Hitler and Tojo, sir. I also think your telling Stalin not to starve the
Ukranians, take over the Baltic States, screw over Poland, divide the
Koreans against each other, help prompt a proxy war in Korea, and telling
Mao not to invade Tibet, fight artillery duels with Taiwan and kill a lot of
his own people would have been nice too. The US wasn't dealing with a bunch
of civilized people here.

> > I wonder how history would have played out if
> > we had honored their request.
>
> The term 'we' implied as if the citizens of the U.S.A. has the same
> will as the government of the U.S.A.
>
> It's not in the will of the citizens of the U.S.A.'s to go into a war,
> let alone 'liberating' other people countries and fighting other
> people's wars.

It saves the expense of having to fight on our own ground to liberate
ourselves if we deal with it before it comes to that. Do you think the
people in US Territory in Hawaii, the Phillipines, Wake and Guam felt safe
when the planes started coming over and the bombs started falling? Do you
think the people on the East Coast felt safe and unthreatened looking out in
1942 at the night horizon, lit up by burning, torpedoed ships? I can tell
you my English teacher in grade school was a kid then, and she sure
remembered being horrified by it, and seeing the oil and tar washing up,
with all the debris afterwards. Do you believe the US forces and Western
Eurpoeans in Europe felt safe seeing how the Russians established their grip
in Eastern Europe before, during, and after WW2? Do you think Taiwanese feel
nice and safe when the Chinese fire "practice" missiles near their island?
Do you believe Americans felt really safe when they saw planes hijacked and
rammed into buildings a couple years ago? For one who professes to have such
knowledge, you seem to have forgotten much in the way of history.

> As for on how history will turn out of the request is accepted.
>
> Well... It's not like that the U.S.A. government can accept the
> request even if they wanted to, since in the end, the U.S.A. governmet
> too like any other official government is only a tool, but not a tool
> of its citizens.

Yet, before, you said the opposite.

[John Galt]

> That's funny. I don't feel exploited. I didn't fight in WW II for monuments or
> parades. Pity the poor ******* who has to fight in a war he didn't belive in.

Yes, it's probably more clear to say the politicians are using the
memory of WWII and its vets to exploit the rest of us.

But D-Day was unneeded. The US should have let the National
Socialists and the Communist Socialists fight each other to the
death....then no Cold War and looming bankruptcy of the US.

Taxation is theft.
All politicians are crooks.

[Peter Twydell]

In article >, John Galt
> writes
>> That's funny. I don't feel exploited. I didn't fight in WW II for monuments or
>> parades. Pity the poor ******* who has to fight in a war he didn't belive in.
>
>Yes, it's probably more clear to say the politicians are using the
>memory of WWII and its vets to exploit the rest of us.
>
>But D-Day was unneeded. The US should have let the National
>Socialists and the Communist Socialists fight each other to the
>death....then no Cold War and looming bankruptcy of the US.
>

Ignoring the millions of oppressed Poles, Czechs, Austrians, Norwegians,
Danes, Dutch, Belgians, Luxembourgeois, Greeks and French, etc. who were
neither Fascist nor Communist, merely conquered? Nice one.

>Taxation is theft.
>All politicians are crooks.

At least you got one thing right.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

[L'acrobat]

"John Galt" > wrote in message
om...
> > That's funny. I don't feel exploited. I didn't fight in WW II for
monuments or
> > parades. Pity the poor ******* who has to fight in a war he didn't
belive in.
>
> Yes, it's probably more clear to say the politicians are using the
> memory of WWII and its vets to exploit the rest of us.
>
> But D-Day was unneeded. The US should have let the National
> Socialists and the Communist Socialists fight each other to the
> death....then no Cold War and looming bankruptcy of the US.

Certainly the USSR would have been no threat to the USA when it owned all of
Europe and the Middle East. would it?

and without an ability to learn on someone elses real estate what really
worked in mobile warfare and what didn't, I'm sure the US army would have
just gone swimmingly against late model T-34s, operated by people who
learned to use them defeating Germans. and that whole 'Bombers don't need
escorts' thing would have no doubt been a real success.

Also the US radar situation without the cavity magnetron could have been
interesting.

Yep, the Commies and the Nazis should have been left to fight it out...

[Lisakbernacchia]

>Subject: Re: The Most Exploited Generation
>From: (John Galt)
>Date: 6/5/2004 2:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: >

>ut D-Day was unneeded. The US should have let the National
>Socialists and the Communist Socialists fight each other to the
>death....then no Cold War and looming bankruptcy of the US.

WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
inefffective feints

>Taxation is theft.

Show me a man who resents paying taxes and I'll show you a man looking for a
free ride.

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
(Lisakbernacchia) writes:
>>Subject: Re: The Most Exploited Generation
>>From: (John Galt)
>>Date: 6/5/2004 2:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>
>>ut D-Day was unneeded. The US should have let the National
>>Socialists and the Communist Socialists fight each other to the
>>death....then no Cold War and looming bankruptcy of the US.
>
> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
> inefffective feints

Tou'll have to ask teh French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, adn Norweigians
about that.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[John Galt]

I don't want anything from you or the state. The supporters of
taxation are the ones who want a free ride, on the money confiscated
from me.

> >Taxation is theft.
>
> Show me a man who resents paying taxes and I'll show you a man looking for a
> free ride.

Lisa K. Bernacchio is obviously a statist control-freak. Hitler's
biggest supporters were women, the "soccer-moms" of that time. They
wanted the security the fascists promised and seemed to provide for a
time. In the end they became rape victims of Russian soldiers, and
deservedly so.

All politicians are crooks and all police are punks with badges.

[Paul A Thomas]

"John Galt" > wrote
> The supporters of taxation are the ones who want
> a free ride, on the money confiscated from me.


Not true. Generally, the supporters of a tax are those who benefit from
that tax (or program that is funded by the tax). Those may be the people
that also pay the tax, but can include those that do not pay the tax.


--
Paul A. Thomas, CPA
Athens, Georgia
taxman at negia.net

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, Peter Stickney
> writes
>In article >,
> (Lisakbernacchia) writes:
>> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
>> inefffective feints
>
>Tou'll have to ask teh French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, adn Norweigians
>about that.

Don't forget the Italians.
>

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Paul J. Adam" > writes:
> In message >, Peter Stickney
> > writes
>>In article >,
>> (Lisakbernacchia) writes:
>>> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
>>> inefffective feints
>>
>>Tou'll have to ask teh French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, adn Norweigians
>>about that.
>
> Don't forget the Italians.

Well, you _could_ make a case for the Italian invasion of France,
their slight participation in the Battle of Britain (What was it,
something like 3 or so raids), and their invasion of Greece being
ineffective, but they were hardly feints.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

[Steve Hix]

In article >,
(Lisakbernacchia) wrote:

> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
> inefffective feints

The air force and navy types (from all Allied forces) who actually lived
through the period might just dispute the point with you.

[quicksand28]

"John Galt" > wrote in message
m...
> I don't want anything from you or the state. The supporters of
> taxation are the ones who want a free ride, on the money confiscated
> from me.

EXACTLY!!


>
> > >Taxation is theft.
> >
> > Show me a man who resents paying taxes and I'll show you a man looking
for a
> > free ride.
>
> Lisa K. Bernacchio is obviously a statist control-freak. Hitler's
> biggest supporters were women, the "soccer-moms" of that time. They
> wanted the security the fascists promised and seemed to provide for a
> time. In the end they became rape victims of Russian soldiers, and
> deservedly so.
>
> All politicians are crooks and all police are punks with badges.

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, Peter Stickney
> writes
>In article >,
> "Paul J. Adam" > writes:
>> In message >, Peter Stickney
>> > writes
>>>In article >,
>>>> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
>>>> inefffective feints
>>>
>>>Tou'll have to ask teh French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, adn Norweigians
>>>about that.
>>
>> Don't forget the Italians.
>
>Well, you _could_ make a case for the Italian invasion of France,
>their slight participation in the Battle of Britain (What was it,
>something like 3 or so raids), and their invasion of Greece being
>ineffective, but they were hardly feints.

I was more thinking of how a veteran of Monte Cassino would react to
being told that it was "a feint".

Also, pretty much every Italian south of the Gothic Line was an
ex-fascist by D-Day, which isn't a bad achievement.

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBox<at>jrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

[Kiwi]

Steve Hix > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> (Lisakbernacchia) wrote:
>
> > WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
> > inefffective feints

I would love to see you tell a veteran of Crete/Greece, Italy etc that
the campaigns they were involved in were ineffective feints. Italy
(in particular the Battles of Cassino) drew a large number of crack
German troops away from France etc (some of these troops had served in
Stalingrad, so clearly were experienced by this time), and had the
effect of keeping the Germans occupied. The Allies also learned a lot
from Anzio (ie how to not conduct a seaborne landing), and after Crete
the Allies also learned not to stage an airborne invasion in broad
daylight. Crete was almost a victory for the Allies - they
surrendered because they had lost communications, so were not aware
that they had the upper hand. If the battles in Italy did not take
place, then the Germans would have directed their troops & other
resources elsewhere - to wait for an invasion from England perhaps? I
am not saying that Cassino was not stupid - any person with half a
brain could stand at the various cemeteries around Cassino (all of
which have a view of the monastery) and draw their own conclusions as
to Mark Clark's ability to conduct a military campaign (count the
crosses - 4300 in the Commonwealth Cemetary alone, including my great
uncle and my grandfather's best friend). I just feel that you do The
US 5th Army (which included Poles, Indians, Ghurkas, British, Canadian
& New Zealand soldiers) a great disservice by stating that the Italian
campaign was an ineffective feint - Rome taken before D-Day, 20,000
Germans dead, and the German Army pre-occupied with holding the Gothic
line until the war ended. Furthermore, I haven't even mentioned the
Dambusters Raid (clearly ineffective - the Ruhr dams bombed and
destroyed, German steel production put back 6 months.....), and the
Battle of the Atlantic (to destroy German shipping and U-Boat
activity).

[Peter Stickney]

In article >,
"Paul J. Adam" > writes:
> In message >, Peter Stickney
> > writes
>>In article >,
>> "Paul J. Adam" > writes:
>>> In message >, Peter Stickney
>>> > writes
>>>>In article >,
>>>>> WW II in Westeren Europe began on D-day Before that it was just a load of
>>>>> inefffective feints
>>>>
>>>>Tou'll have to ask teh French, Belgians, Dutch, Danes, adn Norweigians
>>>>about that.
>>>
>>> Don't forget the Italians.
>>
>>Well, you _could_ make a case for the Italian invasion of France,
>>their slight participation in the Battle of Britain (What was it,
>>something like 3 or so raids), and their invasion of Greece being
>>ineffective, but they were hardly feints.
>
> I was more thinking of how a veteran of Monte Cassino would react to
> being told that it was "a feint".

Paul, I said the _Italian_ invasions of France and Greece, in 1940-41.
Where the Italians were stopped at the border, in the case of France,
and couldn't make any headway in Greece. (And yes, fighting in the
mountains isn't easy, but you'd thenk that they'd have done better
against an opponent who was in a state of collapese (June 10, 1940, in
the case of France)

The Allied invasions of Italy were a much different matter. And
hardly feints.

> Also, pretty much every Italian south of the Gothic Line was an
> ex-fascist by D-Day, which isn't a bad achievement.

And there was no longer an Italian Army on the Eastern Front. That
may or may not have been a big deal to the Soviets, but it was a
not-inconsideratble number of troops.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster